#15 the Earl of Aikenberry: a man of character and Naughty by Nature

[Claygasm]

I've never seen the Hall of Shame. I've never been to the cyberstalker's site. But I have known posters who appear sweet as pie go to another board and say despicable things and laugh about him. I've seen some of those posts retrievable on a google search. I've also encountered fans who believe the tabloids and still say they are just the best fans ever. The Clay message board world is our world. We make it up. Amid the complaints about the mommies, the insiders, the attention seekers, I don't let this group pass.

Believing it doesn't hurt Clay. And NO ONE gets to pass judgement on what anyone else believes. No one.

And in my mind, it is just as wrong to go to sites and say despicable things about other fans just because you don't believe what they do as it is to say despicable things about Clay.

Crushing Sports moments...... I can hardly type the name Joe Carter.

Must be a Phillies fan!

Yeah...... That was a fun season. I was at the LCS winning game and forgot to go to work the next day.

3-0 so far tonight!

Hey , I was at that game too! Good times!!!! Hope we see more of those good times around these parts soon!

[Bookwhore]

I agree with this, to a point. The problem I have with it is that Clay has answered the questions about his sexuality in the past, yet people seem to feel the need to speculate about it and continually ask him the question again, as though maybe he might have changed his mind.

Because historically most gay celebrities have denied it initially. Very few come right out of the gate saying openly "I'm gay, BTW". Most don't address the issue until some nosey asshat asks, then they deny it. And like Clay says, the only answer poeple want to hear is Yes, so they keep asking again and again. I don't get why they care, but a lot of people obviously do.

What infuriates me is that when people are looking at my CD's not once has anyone ever said, "Oohhh, you like Elton John? George Michael? Fill in the Blank? Don't you know he's gay?" But yet when they see a Clay CD that's the first thing that pops out. Why? WTF difference does it make? Why do they feel the need to laugh at my Clay love, but not at Elton or Michael or any of the others?

Sorry for the rant.

All the purdy hand pictures make me long for the fur again. Did anyone ever spill it about just why he had it removed? He had the sexiest forearms.... I hope it grows back in soon. My soon. Arm fur played a minor part in my fantasies.

[leeana]

This is the part where I get serious. And I hesitate writing it, but it is the truth for me and it looks like things were getting pretty serious writing-wise over the weekend. I will unequivocally say I do not accept fans who say he is gay, but still "love" him. Who have no grasp of the harm they do and have done. In my opinion, it's the tabloid rumors that became accepted as truth that have hurt Clay's career the most. And many of the fans fed that. And they hurt him personally. I saw his hands shake on GMA discussing it. I. don't. ever. want. to. see. that. again.

If that's what someone believes and I don't understand why anyone would think they know better than what Clay has stated about himself, STFU about it. Just STFU about it. Go join the CIA or Congress or some place where superomniscience is appreciated.

Rant over. More pics and fun, please.

I have never watched that interview with Diane S even to this day. I have it downloaded in my HD. Just the look of hurt on his face was enough for me not to watch it. I hated those that put him through this. I wish someday, somehow he will be vindicated.

[Gibby]

I, like Claygasm, sorta assumed he was gay during AI2...at least at first....and then I wavered and then the more I watched him and listened to him and gah....

I didn't assume Clay was gay on AI2 - because I saw the way he ogled the girl contestants. He watched their tummies, legs, and boobs. He may have had 'gay' mannerisms, but he seemed very happy to be with cute women and to have his hands and arms around them. And since then, he said plainly and clearly that he's straight, and in observing him with women, I've seen evidence to back up that claim. That's enough for me.

I lurve the arm fur, too. It's gorgeous in this pic:

[FearofH2O]

leeana I don't think there is anything that Clay has to be vindicated of. Many of us know that the accuser is a notorious liar and to those people who read the tabloids and believe them, they must lead pathetic little lives.

I guess I never saw sexuality in black or white. I really don't care how or what someone declares themselves. If they find someone they love, well good for them. My best friend in college was bisexual and she went out with whomever struck her fancy. Wouldn't it be a perfect world if we didn't have to have this discussion and let everyone be happy in whatever manner they chose.

Edited September 5, 2007 by FearofH2O

[Mandler]

Southern manners demand that, as a guest, I bring a gift, and history has taught me that posting a picture of Clay is a great way to make people like you. Or at least forget if you say something stupid.

So in keeping with the day's theme that is very near and dear to my hormones heart...

Hello, all!

[wandacleo]

Well, I have to say that I think that discussing anyone's sexuality is just plain icky and no one's damn business (unless I and the person in question both happen to be naked at the time of the discussion.)

[Gibby]

Great post, Fear!

Something for Muski - any comments?

[bottlecap]

Southern manners demand that, as a guest, I bring a gift, and history has taught me that posting a picture of Clay is a great way to make people like you. Or at least forget if you say something stupid.

So in keeping with the day's theme that is very near and dear to my hormones heart...

Hello, all!

I love a good ropy hand vein on a guy...

[saltwaterdog]

All the purdy hand pictures make me long for the fur again. Did anyone ever spill it about just why he had it removed? He had the sexiest forearms.... I hope it grows back in soon. My soon. Arm fur played a minor part in my fantasies.

Yeah, I was really bummed about the arm fur, too, until I realized that the lack of gave me reason for new fantasies. :eusa_whistle:

Crap, I'm going to be away for a week with just coffee shops to stop in and get my internet fix. I hate ogling arm fur with people watching over my shoulder.

[Gibby]

Crap, I'm going to be away for a week with just coffee shops to stop in and get my internet fix. I hate ogling arm fur with people watching over my shoulder.

Should we give you something else to ogle, like a different body part?

[Guest Toots]

Gibby said so well and I quote:

"I didn't assume Clay was gay on AI2 - because I saw the way he ogled the girl contestants. He watched their tummies, legs, and boobs. He may have had 'gay' mannerisms, but he seemed very happy to be with cute women and to have his hands and arms around them. And since then, he said plainly and clearly that he's straight, and in observing him with women, I've seen evidence to back up that claim. That's enough for me".

Me too, Gibby. Didn't even occur to me that some thought he was gay on AI. I thought his mannerisms were just southern gentleman and still do. He was all about looking at the girls parts and hugging and he still is. That boy is not gay!!!

That's enough on that subject for me. Never believed in gaydar!

[canuck2010]

That's enough on that subject for me. Never believed in gaydar!

Me too!

[saltwaterdog]

Crap, I'm going to be away for a week with just coffee shops to stop in and get my internet fix. I hate ogling arm fur with people watching over my shoulder.

Should we give you something else to ogle, like a different body part?

Good thing I didn't have coffee in my mouth now or I would have spit it all over the screen!!!

[KAndre]

KAndre cracks open on eye and sees the FCA taking on giant philosophical discussions...as usual and again...

Dum de dum dum...I'm with Fear - honestly, I tend not to think about other's sexuality and never really cared...because if me and someone else (Clay - fat or not, I'd still do 'em. And no, I don't care how fat he gets. Heh.) are at that point, I think the question would definitely be moot.

I am still very, very wary of really broad-based statements. Any and all broad based statements. I don't think Clay really cares that much about 98% of the fans say one way or another. I also do think people can and do pass judgement on beliefs - and sometimes they're right (mass murder is a bad thing - and sometimes they're wrong (snowflake hair is not perfection).

....and temporarily slipping into those stainless steel stilletos - we are walking a sort of fine line here - this board really isn't into discussing Clay's orientation except to agree with what he has said. (Hey! I like teal!) I expect everyone here has a fair amount of respect for one Mr. Aiken, and no one here disagrees on that point. People who are not here and don't have a fair amount of respect for one Mr. Aiken aren't really of interest and I see no point in wasting any attention on them.

I don't remember us discussing storyteller/raconteur Clay either - I remember us discussing his occasionally playing fast and loose with the veracity of a variety of statements. Clay tells good stories.

I'm annoyed with "The Biggest Loser" 'cause they got rid of the old host because they thought she was too 'fat' - which I think sends the wrong message. Feh.

[Mandler]

I love a good ropy hand vein on a guy...

Yeah, that comes right after intelligent, funny, and loving children and dogs on my list.

To dip my toe in the current topic, I've never personally believed that Clay was gay, but like others have said, it's not others' beliefs that he is gay that bother me. It's the dogged insistence to talk about it and the harebrained and lunacy-filled attempts to "prove" either side that drain my energy.

[jmh123]

I hung out with a group of Clay fans. When the '06 mess happened some made the choice to believe, and became ex-fans. Fine with me! But, they spewed hateful, nasty things about Clay and wouldn't let the rest of us enjoy being fans. They became verbally abusive regarding Clay. It hurt big time! Why they just didn't move on and find someone else to celebrate and enjoy was beyond me.

That is why I am here, because people love Clay, have fun, and celebrate being fans of Clay Aiken.

That must have been painful for you, and your ex-fan, ex-friends suck!!

I've never seen the Hall of Shame. I've never been to the cyberstalker's site. But I have known posters who appear sweet as pie go to another board and say despicable things and laugh about him. I've seen some of those posts retrievable on a google search. I've also encountered fans who believe the tabloids and still say they are just the best fans ever. The Clay message board world is our world. We make it up. Amid the complaints about the mommies, the insiders, the attention seekers, I don't let this group pass.

The mommies, the insiders, the attention seekers, they're pretty much at any board you go to--these other folks must be in places I stay away from cause I've never seen any of these things. My solution for the underbelly of the fandom--just don't go there. But based on what you've said, the handful of people you describe shouldn't get a pass either, I agree.

[leeana]

leeana I don't think there is anything that Clay has to be vindicated of. Many of us know that the accuser is a notorious liar and to those people who read the tabloids and believe them, they must lead pathetic little lives.

I guess I never saw sexuality in black or white. I really don't care how or what someone declares themselves. If they find someone they love, well good for them. My best friend in college was bisexual and she went out with whomever struck her fancy. Wouldn't it be a perfect world if we didn't have to have this discussion and let everyone be happy in whatever manner they chose.

Vindication is my term when that liar is exposed for what he is to a larger audience. And that blogger PH go into bankruptcy when those who are suing him win big time. And those who believe Clay is lying get to eat their words and choke on them.

[Couch Tomato]

This is a sensitive topic so take a breath or two or three before you chime in and remember we aren't going to debate is he or isn't he, at all.

Sometimes I feel like I'm again out here in outer space somewhere. I've never really had a conversation with a fan of Clay that told me they believe the tabloids. Again, perhaps that's because I didn't follow it. Nor do I personally know of any fan that is saiyng mean hateful things about Clay. Again cuz I've pretty much been housebound here. I think leaving people to spew mean hateful things without an audience would go a long way torward diffusing a lot of this. It's SO easy to get Clay fans upset, and worried and angry. I really hate seeing fans duking it out with people over this or any issue but I do see it all the time. When I see some Clay slam in some obscure blog or some two bit online paper in the middle of nowhere inundated with angry responses - the only thing that tells me is that there will be a follow up because they just got the most hits they have ever gotten. Consider the source! The whole world isn't googling Clay or getting alerts. I can't do anything about what other fans are doing or thinking or saying. What I can do is leave them to do it without making it larger by engaging them, especially out there in the "real" world.

I loved all the hand pictures. I guess if I had to pick a favorite body part it would be his eyes. Move over Woo! heee.

I do love the way Clay fingers that mic. As sexy as it can be I think it's not about being sexy for him. It's about having to always be moving something.

Welcome to all the newbies. You came on a weekend where the discussion got pretty deep. This was after about two weeks of guh and gah and smut. Heee. And I loved that in the midst of it I laughed a lot too. Some of these topics can't be discussed on other boards because the topic dissinegrates into something ugly. I've been impressed that this didn't happen and with everyone's help it won't happen. And then we can have our say and move on. For me the key is always remembering that most people are pretty strongly set in their thinking so just respect that. Having your say without trying to change anyone's mind or having the last word -- good conversation CAN happen. This past weekend was a great example of that. Thank you all.

[Claygasm]

I hung out with a group of Clay fans. When the '06 mess happened some made the choice to believe, and became ex-fans. Fine with me! But, they spewed hateful, nasty things about Clay and wouldn't let the rest of us enjoy being fans. They became verbally abusive regarding Clay. It hurt big time! Why they just didn't move on and find someone else to celebrate and enjoy was beyond me.

That is why I am here, because people love Clay, have fun, and celebrate being fans of Clay Aiken.

Funny, you could have been talking about the RCA/Clive/mandate folks too! Just substitute the words "some fans" for "Clay".

And for that matter, there were some who, in their alleged defense of Clay, spewed hateful, nasty things about other fans - just because they offered another point of view.

I have no defrense for the likes of PH and JP and the HANDFUL of "fans" who chose to support their crap. Don't get me wrong. But I witnessed horrendous behavior by fans claiming to champion Clay against fans who dared to even offer up the possibilty that Clay might be gay, even when these thoughts were wrapped in caring about Clay and the hope that his fans would support him no matter what - unconditionally.

We expect the worst from the slime that is JP and PH. I don't expect it from Clay's fans - especially toward other fans who may just think differently than they do.

Enough of all this deep discussion!

[YSRN]

Carry on and I'll go back to lurking.

Hey, it's granan! Hi! Lilyshine...what a cute doggie name! Don't lurk. Play with us!!

Clayzor... I linked that Rick Rubin article. I found the first part interesting, but I admit I haven't finished it or I'd yap with you about it. Stoopid work. Later, maybe. I'm glad you liked it.

Hi Mandler! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

eta... Son Of A Bitch.... Party Dude... the top!!

[jmh123]

I love a good ropy hand vein on a guy...

Yeah, that comes right after intelligent, funny, and loving children and dogs on my list.

Comes way before kids and dogs on mine.

ETA: I won't BWAH too loud YSRN, lest it happen to me again next.

Edited September 5, 2007 by jmh123

[Ansamcw]

I agree with this, to a point. The problem I have with it is that Clay has answered the questions about his sexuality in the past, yet people seem to feel the need to speculate about it and continually ask him the question again, as though maybe he might have changed his mind.

Because historically most gay celebrities have denied it initially. Very few come right out of the gate saying openly "I'm gay, BTW". Most don't address the issue until some nosey asshat asks, then they deny it. And like Clay says, the only answer poeple want to hear is Yes, so they keep asking again and again. I don't get why they care, but a lot of people obviously do.

What infuriates me is that when people are looking at my CD's not once has anyone ever said, "Oohhh, you like Elton John? George Michael? Fill in the Blank? Don't you know he's gay?" But yet when they see a Clay CD that's the first thing that pops out. Why? WTF difference does it make? Why do they feel the need to laugh at my Clay love, but not at Elton or Michael or any of the others?

Sorry for the rant.

All the purdy hand pictures make me long for the fur again. Did anyone ever spill it about just why he had it removed? He had the sexiest forearms.... I hope it grows back in soon. My soon. Arm fur played a minor part in my fantasies.

This is just my speculation of course...but I think the difference with Clay and Elton in these people's mind is that Elton is out and proud and Clay is in the closet. I think that is the reason why comedians think its open season to make fun of Clay but would be very careful about doing it to Elton. There is GLAD that would protect Elton from being ridiculed cos that would be discrimination. But since Clay is not gay....he is just supposed to take it....sigh. The irony is..I think if only Clay can come out and say he is gay then a lot of this speculation whispering and snickering from the comedians and targetting of scums like PH that claims its about getting Clay to come out... will stop. BUT Clay can't ...he is straight...and unfortunately that is a statement some people refuse to hear.It really is a difficult dilemma for Clay to be in IMO. I think his response to this is the best. He just won't answer the question anymore. If he shows it does not matter what people label him...maybe it will cease to be an issue. I really think the fans should just follow his example...ignore and let it be a non issue.

[laughn]

Southern manners demand that, as a guest, I bring a gift, and history has taught me that posting a picture of Clay is a great way to make people like you. Or at least forget if you say something stupid.

So in keeping with the day's theme that is very near and dear to my hormones heart...

Hello, all!

I love a good ropy hand vein on a guy...

*snort* Where have I heard that before..? Oh, Hi Mandler!

Yeah, that comes right after intelligent, funny, and loving children and dogs on my list.

eta...what's this Mandler...trying to deny your hand fetish obsession love? tsk... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

whoo-hoo! YSRN is on top!

Edited September 5, 2007 by laughn

[jumpingjacks]

I'll admit that some of the things I see spewed from fans toward other fans makes me cringe. I wouldn't treat my dog the way some of these people treat other people.

The is he or isn't he conversation was one I never tried to even enter into because it mattered so little to me and still does. I believe him...that's all I'll say about that.

What I hated most about the crap on the blogs is that they continued to paint of picture of this sadistic, abusive, lying, conniving a**hole...that's what pissed me off but it also made me realize very quickly that they were all in it for the shock value and they have/had a TON of fun screwing with the fans...

No thanks.