#15 the Earl of Aikenberry: a man of character and Naughty by Nature

[lilyshine]

Lilyshine..we discussed that very thing here not long again. ITA with Clay as storyteller.

Whoops! Sorry. I went back and searched for the convo. Very interesting.

Carry on and I'll go back to lurking.

[jmh123]

I find Clay's personal preferences, whether sexual or of anything else, interesting, but basically irrelevant to me. Since I don't know him, he can be anything I want in my fantasies. What I find rude and intolerable is people pushing their agendas through someone who is basically minding his own business.

Word! Short, sweet, and to the point!

As I have said before:

When Clay starts singing through his pecker, I'll worry about what else he does with it.

Shorter, sweeter, and totally bwahworthy. And I'd kind of like to see that.

Y'all are forgetting the one, the only, the original: the Clyan.

A dear Clayfriend said something to me awhile ago that has taken me some time to process. I think I was too involved in looking for sexy tractors at the time. It relates somewhat to the previous discussion of fan angst and over-interpretation of Clay's blogs and what he says on stage.

What she said was that Clay was a storyteller. Not in the sense of being a liar, but in the meaning of being a "raconteur."

I'm sure you all know people who can describe the most trivial incident and make it hilarious or tragic or completely insane. If I were to tell about it, it would seem totally mundane and uninteresting. Clay is like that. (not mundane and uninteresting - the other part!)

He chooses his facts and details, not with the purpose of clarification but with the idea of making the best story, which details (whether real or fabricated) make the story funnier or have more punch. Stories told from the stage seem to be especially prone to this. If you listen to the "AI in Atlanta" bits from all the concerts, he is continually changing the details. The essence stays the same, but the details change and even contradict each other. For example, in most of the banter he says that he prepared Always & Forever, in one he says that he chose it off a list the producers handed to him. (Sorry JMH, I don't remember which it was, but if you insist, I'll source it for you.)

I'm not sure if any huge conclusion can be drawn from this, but I thought it was an interesting insight and one that certainly resonated with me.

Any comments?

I agree with this--could even have been me what said it. This is the trouble, IMO, with trying to get "fact" out of anything he says in situations where there's a possibility that he's "raconteuring". It isn't the details that matter; it's whether it's turning out to be a good story he's telling. Particularly true of on-stage banter, IMO. For example, it amuses me that some take the "classics" banter very seriously as a statement about his musical intentions.

Whoops! Sorry. I went back and searched for the convo. Very interesting.

Carry on and I'll go back to lurking.

Hey, like couchie said, no good discussion is ever over. I just did a search too, and I don't think we covered the topic by any means!!

Edited September 4, 2007 by jmh123

[Couch Tomato]

Lilyshine..we discussed that very thing here not long again. ITA with Clay as storyteller.

Whoops! Sorry. I went back and searched for the convo. Very interesting.

Carry on and I'll go back to lurking.

I'm not sending you back into lurkdom I hope. It's a good topic to revist and everybody may not have put in their two cents. No topic is ever over around here!!

[Bookwhore]

I do believe the tablod rumors have hurt Clay

I don't believe Clay is gay.

Someone believing he might be gay does not mean they have done anything of action.

Believing he might be gay does not equal believing tablod rumours which were not about him being gay but about him being a unwanted ugly freak.

I think the constant battles between people who want to talk about what they want to talk about and those who want them to STFU has done Clay more harm than good.

You're a brave woman washgirl!! I respect that.

Anyone who has done Clay harm with their actions, whether it be the peice of crap stalker, or those that befriend him, and perhaps even those that engage him for Clay's sake out of "love" - I have more of a problem with them.

Word! I know a couple of people that think he might be gay, I've entertained the notion myself a time or two. And I know that these people love and lust after him almost as much as I do. But the bottom line for me is that it doesn't matter one bit. It would only matter if I was planning on sleeping with him, and since I've been married for 26 years and I'm old and fat, well...it's just not in the plans. Even if the opportunity presented itself, it would just be too gross to follow through.

Now, my fantasy life...that's another story. In my fantasies he's straight and I'm 25 with a hott body! Reality doesn't intrude very often.

What one thinks doesn't affect his career, but what one says and does sure can. Like those misguided individuals and their lawsuit claiming they'd been misled about his sexuality. I don't feel the need to vehemently defend him against the detractors, like writing emails and making death threats **insert rolling eyes emoticon here**. I don't think he needs me to help him defend his sexuality anymore than he needs me to help him with his career planning. He seems to have it pretty much under control.

Edited to change idiots to 'misguided' becoss I understand we're not supposed to call people names on this board. Oops! Sawry.

Edited September 4, 2007 by Bookwhore

[Clayzorback]

Loved your post too Bookwhore . Thank God I am allowed to fantasize as often as I want too. *g* I forgot about that stupid lawsuit. Can you believe that? Nope he doesn't need for his fans to protect his sexuality at the "Hater's Boards." That does more damage than the haters. He told his fans the best way they can support him is to buy his stuff.

[wandacleo]

He told his fans the best way they can support him is to buy his stuff.

And God knows I'd pay big bucks for it!!!

[YSRN]

Happy Birthday, merrieeeee!!!!

As I have said before:

When Clay starts singing through his pecker, I'll worry about what else he does with it.

OOoo, I definitely want front row for that concert! *saves up for broker tickets*

And I never thought I'd say this, but I miss THAT hair!! So purdy!

[aikim]

He told his fans the best way they can support him is to buy his stuff.

And God knows I'd pay big bucks for it!!!

"spits Pepsi all over the computer"

He also told us we don't need to defend him; some fans need to realize that he is a grown man and not still that 10 year-old on the playground that needs protecting.

Kim

[clayzedover]

QUOTE(wandacleo @ Sep 4 2007, 06:18 PM)

As I have said before:

When Clay starts singing through his pecker, I'll worry about what else he does with it.

THANK YOU WANDA !!!

Had seen that response by you once before. After observing the way the conversation was going today, I was hoping you were online to say that one more time. Hee.

Wanda speaks for me on this subject. I would not care if Clay liked women, men or even had a meaningful relationship with a sheep, so long as he keeps singing to MEEEEEEEEEE.... I wish to some degee that fans would just ignore the subject, because that is what he plans to do.

I do think the gay stories have caused him some damage. At the same time, I think they have enabled him to show us another, more interesting side of himself. Maybe not as much focused on "family friendly" but oh so much more snarky, funny and adult. He has been using humor now to win male audience members over and I think it has worked. He comes off as a "regular guy" and not the cartoon image many have assigned to him. He appears to be fighting back and am really glad to see that.

I don't begrudge fans who would love him "unconditionally" but I do resent those who want to impose their own beliefs on other fans and the public at large. IMO, those fans who interact with the slime balls of the world for whatever reason are beyond understanding.

[luckiest1]

I'd bet that 90% of mainstream America thinks Clay is gay. As evidenced by all the jokes at his expense by everyone from Kathy G., to late night hosts, to DJ's, and half of the male population. IMHO, most everyone except for some of his hard core internet fans probably do. Just my guess. I didn't go do a survey. Are they not allowed to become fans because they think he is gay? Is their money no good. I don't care if he is or not. I don't judge people by their sexual orientation. I'm a fan of his voice not his bedroom activities.

You know what? I don't think Clay gives a rats patootie what people think about him as long as they are interested enough to spend their money on what he has to sell. JMHO

I agree with this, to a point. The problem I have with it is that Clay has answered the questions about his sexuality in the past, yet people seem to feel the need to speculate about it and continually ask him the question again, as though maybe he might have changed his mind. I totally respect him for refusing the answer the question anymore, because it's none of anyone's damned business, and I don't understand why it would make any difference to a fan anyways - unless they are delusional enough to think that one day they might have the opportunity to sleep with him one day. So if there are fans out there who still believe he is gay, after all this time and all that has transpired, then to me, they are disrespecting him. Unless they are posting it on public message boards or trying to push it as an agenda, I agree, they aren't necessarily hurting anyone, but I still don't understand anyone thinking they know better than Clay about how he identifies sexually, all in the name of "gaydar" (which I firmly believe is just another word for stereotyping). And I freely admit that this is a hot-button topic for me, because I reserve the right to self-identify however I choose, and I think Clay deserves that right as well.

Ok enough of that seriousness..........thank you to everyone bringing the hand pics! I love them too. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[bottlecap]

Hands 'n pockets.

[beenthinking]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY MERIEEEE.... :fest09:

Thanks for all the wonderful hand pictures..

I hung out with a group of Clay fans. When the '06 mess happened some made the choice to believe, and became ex-fans. Fine with me! But, they spewed hateful, nasty things about Clay and wouldn't let the rest of us enjoy being fans. They became verbally abusive regarding Clay. It hurt big time! Why they just didn't move on and find someone else to celebrate and enjoy was beyond me.

That is why I am here, because people love Clay, have fun, and celebrate being fans of Clay Aiken.

[bottlecap]

Psychic Hands.

[jamar1700]

I'd bet that 90% of mainstream America thinks Clay is gay.

Eh...I'd bet that 90% of mainstream America doesn't think about Clay at all.

Edited September 4, 2007 by jamar1700

[Claygasm]

I know some of Clay's most vocal fans would jump ship in an instance if he were to say he was gay. These are the same self-rightious bitches fans who told me I couldn't be a TRUE Clay fan because I wasn't Christian and didn't like the idea of YWT in a pop concert. Yup, these so-called "Christians" (which they aren't to me because they demonstrate the most un-Christian like behavior I have ever seen) say Clay MUST be a virgin because he's a Christian. I doubt very much would condone his being gay IF he were. Now, they might make it their mission in life to try and "convert" him and "save" him, but condone? Support? Nah. I doubt it.

And there are others who express "unconditional" love for him that I feel sure would run as fast as they could if he "came out".

The majority, however, I don't think care - as long as he is happy and continues to sing to us.

At least I hope that is the case.

I know that most non-fans I know think he is gay and have since AI2 - long before last year's crap. I admit I did too in the beginning. I didn't really give it much thought. I just assumed he was. Didn't matter to me, though, because he still sucked me in. I think it wasn't until I read the Rolling Stone article that I decided he was straight - because he said so in a very non-chalant, undefensive manner. Ok, he said he was straight so he must be. Simple as that. But I can see why some think he's gay. He said to Diane Sawyer on the Primetime interview in 2003 that people have always thought that about him - and they always will. As has been said, just thinking it doesn't hurt him one little bit.

Anyone who tries to publicly push an agenda without Clay's consent can hurt him. The agenda could have to do with his sexuality. Or it could have to do with some mandate. Or it could have to do with the music Clay REALLY wants to sing. Or it could have to do with his religion, his politics - anything. We are all free to think and believe what we want about him. No one can or should control that - and it hurts no one. But those who seek to push their own agendas ON ANY SUBJECT, even when they believe - or claim - they have Clay's best interest at heart, they are the ones who can hurt him.

Now, did someone say pictures????

[JennaZ]

Some great, thoughtful discussion. Claygasm, jmh, Couchie, I share your viewpoints.

Clayzorback, I did read that Rubin article and found it intriguing. One thing I took away from it is the burgeoning role of television in breaking new music. That's why I would welcome Clay's involvement in the medium. I know some want Clay to be a more traditional type of music star, but in this world where High School Musical and Hannah Montana are outperforming many radio-made acts, I can't dismiss TV's power. And Clay is SOOO good on television.

Happy Birthday Merrieeee!

And welcome Cotton!

The subscription idea is interesting, but like Ansa, I'm not sure whether the financial model will be profitable.

[Couch Tomato]

I'd bet that 90% of mainstream America thinks Clay is gay.

Eh...I'd bet that 90% of mainstream America doesn't think about Clay at all.

I sorta agree with this. Clay is not on most people's radar on a daily basis..not to say they don't know him when he jumps into the spotlight like AI5. But then I think the first thing on their mind is that boy can sing not he's so gay. I think this is one of the areas where being in the fandom and talking about him every day colors perspection. I've rarely had Clay brought up in conversation out here in the real world. It happens now and then but usually in context of idol somehow.

[Ansamcw]

To me thinking Clay may be gay or being open to the possibility is not necessarily disrespecting him, but recognizing the reality that there are people who are in the closet that have identified themselves as straight and later came out when they are ready. I am NOT saying that this is the situation with Clay or it is what I believe is happening but I do know that this is how fans who think he is gay resolve this issue in their mind. To me what is disrespectful is stating that Clay is gay without any doubt or question. Nobody knows this but Clay. I think just discussing whether he is or not is disrespectful because this should not be an issue since he already stated he is straight.

[bottlecap]

Hook 'Em Horns Hands

Well, he was in Texas at the time...

[washgirl]

This is the part where I get serious. And I hesitate writing it, but it is the truth for me and it looks like things were getting pretty serious writing-wise over the weekend. I will unequivocally say I do not accept fans who say he is gay, but still "love" him. Who have no grasp of the harm they do and have done. In my opinion, it's the tabloid rumors that became accepted as truth that have hurt Clay's career the most. And many of the fans fed that. And they hurt him personally. I saw his hands shake on GMA discussing it. I. don't. ever. want. to. see. that. again.

If that's what someone believes and I don't understand why anyone would think they know better than what Clay has stated about himself, STFU about it. Just STFU about it. Go join the CIA or Congress or some place where superomniscience is appreciated.

Rant over. More pics and fun, please.

I assume because you say "STFU about it" you are speaking of the fans who have made a production of saying this on widely read message boards or gossip sites, or who have deliberately spread rumors--these being a very few individuals--as opposed to the larger number of fans who entertained the thought on occasion. I don't believe that larger number of fans has done any harm to him whatsoever. I thought he was gay during AI2, just assumed, never discussed it with anyone, and it didn't affect my fandom, nor do I believe my thinking that affected him. The tabloid rumors had nothing to do with fans, IMO, (with the possible exception of one individual who may have deliberately started rumors) but with some internet gossip site operators with a desire for more hits/more revenue in tandem with JP, Stern, Lucas, and the tabloids themselves, also motivated by $$$$. Those fans who brought and continue to bring attention to those individuals by going to their sites, by arguing with them, by bringing word of what they said around to all the boards--they're the ones who ought to STFU, IMO, because they give them just what they want--$$$ and attention.

Blame the gossip-mongers, blame Perez, blame the tabloids, blame JP, blame Lucas, blame Stern, blame Conan, blame Kathy Griffin, blame Leno, blame MAD-TV, blame Simon, blame AI, blame stereotyping, blame a culture that gets away with taking out its homophobia on Clay because it's no longer PC to taunt gay people, but please don't blame every fan who ever thought Clay was gay, and don't blame the handful of people who get a charge out of upsetting people on the OFC with their innuendo (the reaction does far more harm than the innuendo, IMO), or the half-a-dozen people who get a charge out of upsetting the fans stupid enough to go to obscure little sites and read what is said there, or some teeny-tiny message board where free speech is accepted. I've seen the Hall of Shame, and everybody and her sister was on that list. It was ridiculous. If your list is as large as that, then I vehemently disagree with you.

I always thought it was the specific nature of the rumors, which were sordid, nasty, and demeaning, and the crassness of the comedian's mocking that bugged Clay, rather than the idea that some people might think he's gay, but that's just me.

I've never seen the Hall of Shame. I've never been to the cyberstalker's site. But I have known posters who appear sweet as pie go to another board and say despicable things and laugh about him. I've seen some of those posts retrievable on a google search. I've also encountered fans who believe the tabloids and still say they are just the best fans ever. The Clay message board world is our world. We make it up. Amid the complaints about the mommies, the insiders, the attention seekers, I don't let this group pass.

[canuck2010]

Personally, I just think Clay is in LOVE with that "mic"!!! Gah!! He caresses that baby in the most sensual manner - kills.me.dead!!!

I have to confess to being one of those who doesn't believe for one second that Clay is gay. It's always been very simple for me. He said he's not. I admit that I would be shocked if I found out differently, it wouldn't affect how I feel about him - it would be like one of my sons telling me the same thing. I'd be shocked because I didn't see it coming, I'd get over it and love him to death.

That being said, I believe he has answered over and over and over again.

This youtube is a good example of his answer to the question:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=l1sr75n31WA

Also, during his wonderful interview with "The Standard" when he was in Vancouver for the JNT05, he was very specific on what kind of a woman he wants. (And it ain't one of us, sadly)!!

I think some fans buy into questioning his honesty about it because if you hear "them" say it enough, it becomes true. I think that's sad.

Happy Birthday Merieeee :flowers: Hope you've had a wonderful day!

[duckyvee]

Crushing Sports moments...... I can hardly type the name Joe Carter.

Must be a Phillies fan!

Yeah...... That was a fun season. I was at the LCS winning game and forgot to go to work the next day.

3-0 so far tonight!

JaMar? Passive Agressive? :29:

[jamar1700]

I was at the LCS winning game and forgot to go to work the next day.

[muskifest]

To me thinking Clay may be gay or being open to the possibility is not necessarily disrespecting him, but recognizing the reality that there are people who are in the closet that have identified themselves as straight and later came out when they are ready. I am NOT saying that this is the situation with Clay or it is what I believe is happening but I do know that this is how fans who think he is gay resolve this issue in their mind. To me what is disrespectful is stating that Clay is gay without any doubt or question. Nobody knows this but Clay. I think just discussing whether he is or not is disrespectful because this should not be an issue since he already stated he is straight.

Word to this, Ansa. I know that my coworker is absolutely convinced that Clay is gay and just hasn't come out yet. He grew up MOrmon, did the two year mission thing and everything. He dated girls, although he didn't "go all the way"...then when he was a SENIOR in college he met a guy, fell in love and they've been married 12 years and have a daughter. I love this guy and we don't really discuss Clay but when I first came here, he saw my pictures, etc. and told me that to him, CLay plain ooozes "gay", whether he's become comfortable with it or not.

Another person here at work cannot STAND Clay! I finally had to ask her to please keep her toxic comments to herself, that I 'got it' and didn't need to hear him spoken about in such a hateful way. She spits out, "Oh, he's so gay!" as if it were an epithet and then goes on to say how she hates his singing, song choices, accent...etc.

Bitch. (Actually, I LIKE her, but we just stay clear of this topic...I have no idea why she feels so vehemently about it/him.)

I have to say that most casual mentions of Clay to the NJU--in MY world, at least---usually result in someone coming back with the ubiquitous, "He's gay, isn't he?"

I, like Claygasm, sorta assumed he was gay during AI2...at least at first....and then I wavered and then the more I watched him and listened to him and gah....

whatever....since I can't take a test drive to see if my shifting his gears gets his engine revved, I'll take his word for it. It's a lousy substitute for the real experience of hands-on instruction, but hey....like many others here, I have an active fantasy life.

Now I'm actually leaving my office before 5:30! Woot! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[cindilu2]

To me thinking Clay may be gay or being open to the possibility is not necessarily disrespecting him, but recognizing the reality that there are people who are in the closet that have identified themselves as straight and later came out when they are ready. I am NOT saying that this is the situation with Clay or it is what I believe is happening but I do know that this is how fans who think he is gay resolve this issue in their mind. To me what is disrespectful is stating that Clay is gay without any doubt or question. Nobody knows this but Clay. I think just discussing whether he is or not is disrespectful because this should not be an issue since he already stated he is straight.

See, I think publicly speculating that he is gay IS disrespecting him. Partly, because he did say he was not. But mostly because he made it pretty clear that HE does not want to discuss it - that it's really nobody's business. So continuing to do it, in my opinion, is tantamount to saying 'I don't care what you want Clay, it's more important to me that I discuss it. So sorry.' I have long since stopped 'defending' him, but I will never stop being annoyed when I read it. And I will never stop being disgusted by the 'comedians' who equate the gay jokes with desperation, or worst of all with pedophilia. So not funny. Not about Clay. Not about anybody.

And yes, my 'unconditional' umbrella covers this, too.