#15 the Earl of Aikenberry: a man of character and Naughty by Nature

[Cotton]

EEEEEE !!!!

Somebody posted one of my WPB pics!

And since this is my first post here, I thought I'd add to the HANDS!

[Ansamcw]

EEEEEE !!!!

Somebody posted one of my WPB pics!

And since this is my first post here, I thought I'd add to the HANDS!

welcome cotton...those pictures will make hand lovers happy but crotch lovers sad...

[Gibby]

Welcome, Cotton!!!

[ldyjocelyn]

Welcome cotton! That was a great picture you got of Angela and Clay together!

And I'm in heaven with all the hand pictures. He's got such....mature hands. That's the only way to describe them, to me -- mature. It's hard to describe, but I can see that he's not a kid with those hands. They're not OLD, they're just...mature.

Hell, I don't know what I'm talking about. I need to go home from work.

[Couch Tomato]

Welcome cotton! That was a great picture you got of Angela and Clay together!

And I'm in heaven with all the hand pictures. He's got such....mature hands. That's the only way to describe them, to me -- mature. It's hard to describe, but I can see that he's not a kid with those hands. They're not OLD, they're just...mature.

Hell, I don't know what I'm talking about. I need to go home from work.

Doncha just love it when smart women turn into babbling fools

Have I told you lately that I love you :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[saltwaterdog]

Cotton, what a nice first post!

I'm just not gonna get any work done today. Lurves those hands! ldyjocelyn, "mature" hands, huh? I'm not going to post what comes to mind with that idea. I think I'll go back and see if I can put together a thoughtful description of those hands.

Nope. Just . That's all I've got.

[wandacleo]

Cotton :00000467:

Glad to see you popping up here!

[washgirl]

I saw discussion of the word 'unconditional' - and it was a little freaky, because I had just updated my siggy. It's always been 'unconditional' but I added that other bit, and I swear it was before this discussion. No monkey! *g* When I say my support for Clay as an artist and as a man is unconditional, I mean it. I honestly can't think of anything within the realm of possibility that would turn me away from him. I feel he's shown us enough of himself over these past four years to state with confidence that the things that would end it for me are not within that realm.

Not in musical choices, for I love to hear his voice. When the lyrics have meaning for me, he touches my soul. When they don't, he transcends them and I am still left with that glorious sound. I'm not religious, so things like YWT or GN are not an altar call for me. They are magnificent in that I see him in his element, and I don't think anybody would argue that when he sings those songs, there is something special there.

Not in career choices, for I believe there are no boundaries to his talent, and I hope, no limits to his dreams. TV? Movies? Theatre? All good. Bring it on, Clay.

Not in lifestyle choices, for as long as he loves and is loved in return I wish only happiness for him.

And if he chucked it all and went back to 'real life' tomorrow? Well, after I cried for about a year, and offered up sacrifices to whatever deities I could think of to get him to come back, I'd still support him. Because as inexplicable as it is (even to myself), I really do love him.

So yes, I can keep my signature down there and not feel the slightest bit of hypocrisy about it.

Y'all sure have been blabby this weekend. It took me quite a while to catch up. Cindilu2, I've got to agree with you. I don't what he sings as long as he sings. I don't care what he does with his career as I long as I get to share it.

Otherwise, I don't think Clay really drinks. I love a good drink, but Clay sounded ashamed of himself in LTS for being goaded into hard liquor. And he didn't like it. And now with the Paxil, I doubt if he indulges much at all. I also think Clay was poised for huge stardom, but things went somehow wrong when it became cooler to ridicule him than to enjoy him. Fans? They can wear blinkies, attend a million concerts, respond to articles - responses to just about any internet articles are appalling, I don't care.

This is the part where I get serious. And I hesitate writing it, but it is the truth for me and it looks like things were getting pretty serious writing-wise over the weekend. I will unequivocally say I do not accept fans who say he is gay, but still "love" him. Who have no grasp of the harm they do and have done. In my opinion, it's the tabloid rumors that became accepted as truth that have hurt Clay's career the most. And many of the fans fed that. And they hurt him personally. I saw his hands shake on GMA discussing it. I. don't. ever. want. to. see. that. again.

If that's what someone believes and I don't understand why anyone would think they know better than what Clay has stated about himself, STFU about it. Just STFU about it. Go join the CIA or Congress or some place where superomniscience is appreciated.

Rant over. More pics and fun, please.

[atinal]

AAAArrrrrgggg.

I just attempted the multiple quote thingy and when i did the preview post all of the quotes were there but not in quote boxes. What am I doing wrong? Anyone?

Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. I too, was thinking maybe it was a few hundred at the high end possibly and that the repeaters varied by region, unless of course they are (cough cough) serial repeaters. Of whom I am very jealous.

Cindy, I told you ignorance is bliss, I've gone all this time thinking I had renewed my membership for 2 years.

[Gibby]

You know, Clay's hands are very mature (tm ldyj) and masculine. They look strong, but yet gentle, and that makes them oh-so-appealing. But the thing that always gets me about his hands is how he uses them - caressing the mic, grabbing the mic stand, using them to express himself while singing by making a fist or opening his hands. Then my imagination goes into overdrive, and I think about what those hands would feel like on me ....

*gurgle*

*pant*

Where was I? Oh, yes, how Clay uses his hands. Here's a yummy example:

(Edited 'cuz I posted the wrong pic. D'oh!)

Edited September 4, 2007 by Gibby

[Claygasm]

I have no presents to offer since I am still at work but........

:bday2: MERRIEEE!!!!

So glad I had a chance to meet you this summer!

OFC? The main reason I will rejoin is for the symbolic act of it. It's Clay's Official Fan Club. I'm a fan. It's sort of a stand up and be counted thing for me on a personal level. I don't read the message board or the blogs, except for Clay's. I wouldn't miss Clay's blogs for anything. I also enjoy getting a chance to respond to him. Not that I hold any illusions that he reads more than whatever happens to hit the board at the off minute that he's there, but still. There is something about it that appeals to me.

Crushing Sports moments...... I can hardly type the name Joe Carter.

Must be a Phillies fan!

Yeah Lucky if I fly across the country I need to see at least 3 shows. I could never fly across the country for 1. That's why figuring out xmas is so hard. Looks like 2 will have to be max this year.

You wouldn't fly across country for one show??? Why the hell not? I did! But I was young and foolish then. It was for the San Jose IT - and it was sooooooooooo worth it!

This is the part where I get serious. And I hesitate writing it, but it is the truth for me and it looks like things were getting pretty serious writing-wise over the weekend. I will unequivocally say I do not accept fans who say he is gay, but still "love" him. Who have no grasp of the harm they do and have done. In my opinion, it's the tabloid rumors that became accepted as truth that have hurt Clay's career the most. And many of the fans fed that. And they hurt him personally. I saw his hands shake on GMA discussing it. I. don't. ever. want. to. see. that. again.

If that's what someone believes and I don't understand why anyone would think they know better than what Clay has stated about himself, STFU about it. Just STFU about it. Go join the CIA or Congress or some place where superomniscience is appreciated.

There is a difference in believing something and making a public agenda out of that belief. Those that think RCA/Clive' sole ourpose in life is to destroy Clay's career are one example. Those who decided Clay was gay and made it their mission to either out him or make sure everyone else thought he was gay are another.

But those fans who believe he may be gay and still love him and follow him and eeeeeeeeeeeeeee over him but don't make their belief a part of a public agenda? Why can't they be as good a fan as you or me? Fact is, I think many of us have entertained the idea Clay may be gay, despite what he has said publicly. I know I have. Fact is, IF he were and IF he were denying it publicly - or for that matter privately - he wouldn't be the first to do so. I think it shows a lot of devotion for those who think he may be gay to still eeeeeee over him as much as anyone else. I often wonder how many who claim to love him unconditionally would do so IF he were gay.

I take Clay at his word because I have a hard time believing anyone could be the way he is on stage with Angela and not be straight. But the fact is, none of us really know for sure. We can only go by what Clay told us back in 2003 - because he has not addressed it directly since. I guess I just don't see why you can't be a fan of his if you believe he is gay. Just fans believing it didn't make his hands shake on GMA (which I never noticed, but then again I probably wasn't looking at his hands *g*). That is not what hurt him. It was the actions of the likes of PH and JP - and they are not fans.

I think anyone who loves Clay and supports him is a fan. It doesn't and shouldn't matter what we personally believe about his personal life. There are those who think he is a virgin and those who thinks he sleeps around (well, at least with Kelly, Angela, Jaymes, Mary, Kristy, Jamie, Yellow Sweater Girl and who knows who else...). And there are those who would include Jesse on that list. Who cares? As long as they love and support him and don't cause him any harm, they are fans.

JMHO.

ETA: And now after all that, I am at the top of the page!!

Edited September 4, 2007 by Claygasm

[Gibby]

For the people going to the Las Vegas Skating Show - I put some info about the preparty in the planning thread.

[jmh123]

This is the part where I get serious. And I hesitate writing it, but it is the truth for me and it looks like things were getting pretty serious writing-wise over the weekend. I will unequivocally say I do not accept fans who say he is gay, but still "love" him. Who have no grasp of the harm they do and have done. In my opinion, it's the tabloid rumors that became accepted as truth that have hurt Clay's career the most. And many of the fans fed that. And they hurt him personally. I saw his hands shake on GMA discussing it. I. don't. ever. want. to. see. that. again.

If that's what someone believes and I don't understand why anyone would think they know better than what Clay has stated about himself, STFU about it. Just STFU about it. Go join the CIA or Congress or some place where superomniscience is appreciated.

Rant over. More pics and fun, please.

I assume because you say "STFU about it" you are speaking of the fans who have made a production of saying this on widely read message boards or gossip sites, or who have deliberately spread rumors--these being a very few individuals--as opposed to the larger number of fans who entertained the thought on occasion. I don't believe that larger number of fans has done any harm to him whatsoever. I thought he was gay during AI2, just assumed, never discussed it with anyone, and it didn't affect my fandom, nor do I believe my thinking that affected him. The tabloid rumors had nothing to do with fans, IMO, (with the possible exception of one individual who may have deliberately started rumors) but with some internet gossip site operators with a desire for more hits/more revenue in tandem with JP, Stern, Lucas, and the tabloids themselves, also motivated by $$$$. Those fans who brought and continue to bring attention to those individuals by going to their sites, by arguing with them, by bringing word of what they said around to all the boards--they're the ones who ought to STFU, IMO, because they give them just what they want--$$$ and attention.

Blame the gossip-mongers, blame Perez, blame the tabloids, blame JP, blame Lucas, blame Stern, blame Conan, blame Kathy Griffin, blame Leno, blame MAD-TV, blame Simon, blame AI, blame stereotyping, blame a culture that gets away with taking out its homophobia on Clay because it's no longer PC to taunt gay people, but please don't blame every fan who ever thought Clay was gay, and don't blame the handful of people who get a charge out of upsetting people on the OFC with their innuendo (the reaction does far more harm than the innuendo, IMO), or the half-a-dozen people who get a charge out of upsetting the fans stupid enough to go to obscure little sites and read what is said there, or some teeny-tiny message board where free speech is accepted. I've seen the Hall of Shame, and everybody and her sister was on that list. It was ridiculous. If your list is as large as that, then I vehemently disagree with you.

I always thought it was the specific nature of the rumors, which were sordid, nasty, and demeaning, and the crassness of the comedian's mocking that bugged Clay, rather than the idea that some people might think he's gay, but that's just me.

[Couch Tomato]

This is the part where I get serious. And I hesitate writing it, but it is the truth for me and it looks like things were getting pretty serious writing-wise over the weekend. I will unequivocally say I do not accept fans who say he is gay, but still "love" him. Who have no grasp of the harm they do and have done. In my opinion, it's the tabloid rumors that became accepted as truth that have hurt Clay's career the most. And many of the fans fed that. And they hurt him personally. I saw his hands shake on GMA discussing it. I. don't. ever. want. to. see. that. again.

If that's what someone believes and I don't understand why anyone would think they know better than what Clay has stated about himself, STFU about it. Just STFU about it. Go join the CIA or Congress or some place where superomniscience is appreciated.

Rant over. More pics and fun, please.

I do believe the tablod rumors have hurt Clay

I don't believe Clay is gay.

Someone believing he might be gay does not mean they have done anything of action.

Believing he might be gay does not equal believing tablod rumours which were not about him being gay but about him being a unwanted ugly freak.

I think the constant battles between people who want to talk about what they want to talk about and those who want them to STFU has done Clay more harm than good.

You're a brave woman washgirl!! I respect that.

Anyone who has done Clay harm with their actions, whether it be the peice of crap stalker, or those that befriend him, and perhaps even those that engage him for Clay's sake out of "love" - I have more of a problem with them.

hell we've talked about "conspiracies" "good fan/bad fan" - guess wer're going through the trifecta.

[muskifest]

And there are those who would include Jesse on that list.

Bwah! And don't forget John Dahlstrom!

I'm losing it here, folks....too much for me to get done for this conference, not enough staff help...AARRGGHHH!

AND...and this really pisses me off! Looks like the Washington DC concert might be out of the question for me....turns out that the week we're considering that city for our summer program is the same week there is a city-wide takeover by a national sorority's centennial celebration! Hardly any hotel rooms---meeting or sleeping---to be had. Now we're looking at New Orleans....yeah. That helps. He does concerts in New Orleans all the time, doesn't he?

Ok...what's the closest concert to Memphis? That's another city I have to visit to find a meeting venue.... :medium-smiley-070:

[saltwaterdog]

You know, Clay's hands are very mature (tm ldyj) and masculine. They look strong, but yet gentle, and that makes them oh-so-appealing. But the thing that always gets me about his hands is how he uses them - caressing the mic, grabbing the mic stand, using them to express himself while singing by making a fist or opening his hands. Then my imagination goes into overdrive, and I think about what those hands would feel like on me ....

*gurgle*

*pant*

Where was I? Oh, yes, how Clay uses his hands. Here's a yummy example:

(Edited 'cuz I posted the wrong pic. D'oh!)

Clay uses his hands as an extension of his voice. I first really noticed it on the JNT2 - not that he wasn't doing it before, it's just that's when I first put the thought into words. Last Christmas I was at the Long Island concert when Clay had vertigo and held on to the stool most of the night. Oh, how I missed those hands! (His voice was spectacular anyway).

~

I find Clay's personal preferences, whether sexual or of anything else, interesting, but basically irrelevant to me. Since I don't know him, he can be anything I want in my fantasies. What I find rude and intolerable is people pushing their agendas through someone who is basically minding his own business.

I need to quit checking for new hand pictures every 35 seconds and get something done.

[Claygasm]

And there are those who would include Jesse on that list.

Bwah! And don't forget John Dahlstrom!

OMG! I completely forgot about him!

AND...and this really pisses me off! Looks like the Washington DC concert might be out of the question for me....turns out that the week we're considering that city for our summer program is the same week there is a city-wide takeover by a national sorority's centennial celebration! Hardly any hotel rooms---meeting or sleeping---to be had. Now we're looking at New Orleans....yeah. That helps. He does concerts in New Orleans all the time, doesn't he?

Ok...what's the closest concert to Memphis? That's another city I have to visit to find a meeting venue.... :medium-smiley-070:

Well, D.C. being out is truly a bummer! That was my most likely concert, but I was kind of counting on you coming!

You know, Clay really should consult us before he plans these concerts.

[aikim]

Just popping in to say "hi" before I go dump myself in a tub of hot water...I swear if the Library ever decides to remodel again, I am handing in my two weeks! Productive day though, I got my desk back in order, computer set up and boxes unpacked.

Welcome Cotton, nice to see you here!

Couchie Glad you are enjoying the countdown...just let me know if I screw up on the numbers, math was never my best subject.

I've met Jamar too and I would never call her passive/agressive...just straight to the point.

Time for Calgon to take me away...back later!

Kim

[Bookwhore]

Cotton, what a nice first post!

I'm just not gonna get any work done today. Lurves those hands! ldyjocelyn, "mature" hands, huh? I'm not going to post what comes to mind with that idea. I think I'll go back and see if I can put together a thoughtful description of those hands.

Is the word you're looking for 'knowing'? Like, maybe, he knows what to do with them? Like maybe they know a few things?

Oh Dear Lord, I can't believe I just did that to myself....I still have 2 hrs yet to work....

[lilyshine]

A dear Clayfriend said something to me awhile ago that has taken me some time to process. I think I was too involved in looking for sexy tractors at the time. It relates somewhat to the previous discussion of fan angst and over-interpretation of Clay's blogs and what he says on stage.

What she said was that Clay was a storyteller. Not in the sense of being a liar, but in the meaning of being a "raconteur."

I'm sure you all know people who can describe the most trivial incident and make it hilarious or tragic or completely insane. If I were to tell about it, it would seem totally mundane and uninteresting. Clay is like that. (not mundane and uninteresting - the other part!)

He chooses his facts and details, not with the purpose of clarification but with the idea of making the best story, which details (whether real or fabricated) make the story funnier or have more punch. Stories told from the stage seem to be especially prone to this. If you listen to the "AI in Atlanta" bits from all the concerts, he is continually changing the details. The essence stays the same, but the details change and even contradict each other. For example, in most of the banter he says that he prepared Always & Forever, in one he says that he chose it off a list the producers handed to him. (Sorry JMH, I don't remember which it was, but if you insist, I'll source it for you.)

I'm not sure if any huge conclusion can be drawn from this, but I thought it was an interesting insight and one that certainly resonated with me.

Any comments?

[Couch Tomato]

Lilyshine..we discussed that very thing here not long again. ITA with Clay as storyteller.

wandacleo below me..bwah.

[wandacleo]

As I have said before:

When Clay starts singing through his pecker, I'll worry about what else he does with it.

[bottlecap]

Hands? I've got a few...

Sniff. I miss the thumb ring.

Hands with a neck bonus.

Bunch Hands.

[Ansamcw]

This is the part where I get serious. And I hesitate writing it, but it is the truth for me and it looks like things were getting pretty serious writing-wise over the weekend. I will unequivocally say I do not accept fans who say he is gay, but still "love" him. Who have no grasp of the harm they do and have done. In my opinion, it's the tabloid rumors that became accepted as truth that have hurt Clay's career the most. And many of the fans fed that. And they hurt him personally. I saw his hands shake on GMA discussing it. I. don't. ever. want. to. see. that. again.

If that's what someone believes and I don't understand why anyone would think they know better than what Clay has stated about himself, STFU about it. Just STFU about it. Go join the CIA or Congress or some place where superomniscience is appreciated.

Rant over. More pics and fun, please.

yup this is a sensitive issue...and one that is not cut and dried for me.

I don't have a problem if a fan thinks Clay is gay...as long as they don't go around trying to convince others that their gaydar is right and they know more than Clay. As long as they keep discussion about his sexuality out of the public boards and in their own boards I don't have a problem with them. I do believe its possible to think Clay is gay and still be a fan. Its when people push the Clay is gay agenda that I don;t think they really have his best interest at heart. I do think that there are a lot of non internet fans that buy his cds and go to his concerts that also assumed he is gay because of the media. My cousins are like that and the fact that they think Clay is gay does not stop them from enjoying him. I did tell them Clay says he is not and that I believe he is straight based on that and on close observation for all these years. They didn;t argue one way or another...they simply accepted what I said cos his sexuality was not really that important to them.

It really is because of this that I don't think the question of his sexuality is keeping him from superstardom. I really think the ...he is not cool, i.e. he sings old people music...image may hurt him more than the possiblity that he is gay.

BTW... I think the policy here is we do not discuss Clay's sexuality...but we can discuss public and media perceptions and its effect on Clay's career. I do believe we had that as a topic on one of our chats.

ok upon reading the post on preview I see I am pretty late on this topic once again!!! sigh...

[Clayzorback]

This is the part where I get serious. And I hesitate writing it, but it is the truth for me and it looks like things were getting pretty serious writing-wise over the weekend. I will unequivocally say I do not accept fans who say he is gay, but still "love" him. Who have no grasp of the harm they do and have done. In my opinion, it's the tabloid rumors that became accepted as truth that have hurt Clay's career the most. And many of the fans fed that. And they hurt him personally. I saw his hands shake on GMA discussing it. I. don't. ever. want. to. see. that. again.

If that's what someone believes and I don't understand why anyone would think they know better than what Clay has stated about himself, STFU about it. Just STFU about it. Go join the CIA or Congress or some place where superomniscience is appreciated.

Rant over. More pics and fun, please.

I assume because you say "STFU about it" you are speaking of the fans who have made a production of saying this on widely read message boards or gossip sites, or who have deliberately spread rumors--these being a very few individuals--as opposed to the larger number of fans who entertained the thought on occasion. I don't believe that larger number of fans has done any harm to him whatsoever. I thought he was gay during AI2, just assumed, never discussed it with anyone, and it didn't affect my fandom, nor do I believe my thinking that affected him. The tabloid rumors had nothing to do with fans, IMO, (with the possible exception of one individual who may have deliberately started rumors) but with some internet gossip site operators with a desire for more hits/more revenue in tandem with JP, Stern, Lucas, and the tabloids themselves, also motivated by $$$$. Those fans who brought and continue to bring attention to those individuals by going to their sites, by arguing with them, by bringing word of what they said around to all the boards--they're the ones who ought to STFU, IMO, because they give them just what they want--$$$ and attention.

Blame the gossip-mongers, blame Perez, blame the tabloids, blame JP, blame Lucas, blame Stern, blame Conan, blame Kathy Griffin, blame Leno, blame MAD-TV, blame Simon, blame AI, blame stereotyping, blame a culture that gets away with taking out its homophobia on Clay because it's no longer PC to taunt gay people, but please don't blame every fan who ever thought Clay was gay, and don't blame the handful of people who get a charge out of upsetting people on the OFC with their innuendo (the reaction does far more harm than the innuendo, IMO), or the half-a-dozen people who get a charge out of upsetting the fans stupid enough to go to obscure little sites and read what is said there, or some teeny-tiny message board where free speech is accepted. I've seen the Hall of Shame, and everybody and her sister was on that list. It was ridiculous. If your list is as large as that, then I vehemently disagree with you.

I always thought it was the specific nature of the rumors, which were sordid, nasty, and demeaning, and the crassness of the comedian's mocking that bugged Clay, rather than the idea that some people might think he's gay, but that's just me.

I love you jmh . Thank you for this post, because it kept me from writing one of my own. You said all that I would of said, and boy you nailed the truth as I see it too. This subject pushes my button big time. I have a suggestion for people. Don't believe everything you read at the cyber stalkers message board.

I'd bet that 90% of mainstream America thinks Clay is gay. As evidenced by all the jokes at his expense by everyone from Kathy G., to late night hosts, to DJ's, and half of the male population. IMHO, most everyone except for some of his hard core internet fans probably do. Just my guess. I didn't go do a survey. Are they not allowed to become fans because they think he is gay? Is their money no good. I don't care if he is or not. I don't judge people by their sexual orientation. I'm a fan of his voice not his bedroom activities.

You know what? I don't think Clay gives a rats patootie what people think about him as long as they are interested enough to spend their money on what he has to sell. JMHO