#22: Which brings us to Clay Aiken, as most good conversations should

[luckiest1]

Oooh, pretties! Thanks cindilu2!

I LOOOOVE MCWL!! It makes me sort of disappointed that he doesn't like MCWL that much. I'm one that likes the more traditional (old-fashioned) arrangements of most Christmas songs, so it's the perfect cup of tea for me. That's not to say I would not purchase and listen to a new Christmas album of reworked songs.

I don't know, I think it's pretty normal for someone to look at something they did 3 or 4 years ago and say, oh man, I wish I could do that over now, I could do it so much better! But to someone else, it may be the most wonderful thing they've ever seen (or in this case, listened to!)

I did get a hearty chuckle out of Clay's saying that a CD/DVD set at $25 would be too expensive for the buyer. You'd think he'd know us better by now. I think many of us would fork over the $25 so fast it would make his head spin. Ok, maybe that's just me.

Hee, no, I think he realizes that the online fanbase would snap that thing up pretty quickly. But the majority of sales are not us, they're the NOT.JUST.US. And $25 is a lot of money for them. I get his point. I'd still love a CD/DVD though. *g*

[atinal]

Fascinating man...

Holiday Banner

Beautiful, Cindilu

[muskifest]

did get a hearty chuckle out of Clay's saying that a CD/DVD set at $25 would be too expensive for the buyer.

Uh.....Clay?

You checked the prices of some of your concert tix this holiday season? :glare:

Tree's up!

Lights are on!

Beads are draped!

Garland is hung at fireplace and stockings attached!

Mistletoe is waiting in two doorways!

Empty boxes waiting for somebody ELSE to take them out to the garage, 'cuz I gotta go walk the dog!

[muskifest]

Okay, this is utterly fascinating to me: Corabeth posted this recap from donnamom's M&G tonight:

More from Donnamom's M&G

Talking with each other helped relax each other before Clay walked in.

First woman asked about his birthday. He asked them if he celebrate theirs. I guess he doesn't think they are a big deal.

Second one asked why he changed up so many songs? He said Huh? I guess she doesn't like the falsetto and he said "I've been doing that for years!"

Any celebrity that you haven't met yet that you would like to meet? He said naaah. There was this one time that I got in an elevator with Tom Brokaw. She said you should watch BBC and he said they all talk in funny accents.

Wouldn't you want to meet Angelina Jolie. Didn't appear to interest him.

I am going to be hurt and embarrassed if people take pictures and video at Spamalot.

He feels very defeated about the flashes, she thinks.

He was very sweet, funny, joking around. Everyone was happy.

So now, of course, the question is "To Clack or not to CLack Spamalot---IS there a question?"

Discuss amongst yourselves.....

[luckiest1]

Uh, you might want to check out the Mohegan Sun thread, we've been discussing it for pages already.

[spikesmom]

About the pre-lit trees....they are great..until one string burns out. Then yoy have a big dark gap in the middle of your tree. Plus, the trees are a lot heavier than a regular artificial tree. My tree comes in four section that plug into each other and then into the wall. I can only carry one section at a time up from the basement..there's no way I can pull the whole box up the stairs by myself. This year two sections are out and I had to add strings of lights. One more section goes out and this tree is going to the dumpster. It's only 5 years old, max.

Well, dang... of course, almost every year I have one set of lights that decides it's going to die the day after I have the whole damn tree decorated... I've taken to putting the tree up, adding the lights and leaving it for several days before I do anything else... nothing sucks more than trying to add a set of lights once the tree is already decorated... Maybe I need a mini tree... like 2' or smaller...

[keldanker]

I came running over here because I {gasp} had an opinion elsewhere. And what do I find y'all discussing....opinions. We've all got them and its nice to be able to state them without all the crap that goes along with that some places.

I went out and bought a NYT earlier. $5.25...yikes!

I'm wondering why Clay thinks $25 is too expensive for a DVD, but he doesn't seem worried that the seat I sat me-self in last Sunday night in DC cost me $130 ( x 3 since dh & dd were sitting beside me).

I'll be in Williamsport on Saturday as long as the weather is okay for the drive. Hope to see some of you there.

We got a tree yesterday. Its sitting in a bucket in the garage. Par for the course around here. Shopping....not done. Christmas cards...nope. Baking.....

[Claygasm]

Ya know what?

I think I'll go listen to Touch too!

And a certain someone can't stop me either.

I knew I loved you!

And yes, my "boulder throwing" remark was meant as (a) a joke and (2) a warning that what I was posting might be unpopular. No more, no less.

I talked at length with my lurking friend about this review and the reviewer. She was actually impressed with his even-handedness and his effort at stating positive things about Clay - something he was NEVER done before and certainly didn't have to do. He could have just slammed the show - period. But let's face it - he didn't like the show and critics who don't like a show usually use caustic phrases and generalizations. I doubt there will ever be a time every critic loves Clay. I do not believe that those who don't are any less intelligent or insightful than those who do. Just different tastes. The Albany critics opinion to me should have just as much validity as that Sean person's review of half the Poughkeepsie show. Maybe more so since the Albany guy at least saw the whole show!

Hell. I don't like everything Clay does and I am a fan! Doesn't make me any less worthy than those in the fandom who adore every thing Clay does.

Not every FAN likes this particular show, so we cant' expect every critic to. But to avoid reading the bad reviews or to trash them as stupid or to call the critic an idiot is the same as saying that those fans who don't like this show are also worthy of being trashed or called idiots.

And that is not right.

As to Spamalot clack - IMO if it is taken discreetly and NOT posted places like YouTube, what's the harm? Frankly if I were Clay I would be more embarrassed - and more concerned about - some yelling out "I LOVE YOU CLAY!" in the middle of one of his scenes!

Unfortunately, I fear there will be very non-discreet attempts at clack gathering and all too many "I LOVE YOU CLAY!"s during his run in Spamalot!

[laljeterfan]

I just got back today from my Albany/Poughkeepsie double-header, after having been at Wilkes Barre earlier in the week. My impressions:

My cousin and I attend all of the concerts together, and Wilkes Barre was great fun, because a friend of ours not only was chosen for a M&G, but she was also the first reader of the night! We got to see her briefly beforehand, and she crashed in our hotel room after the concert rather than drive the 1 1/2 hours back to her home as she had originally intended. We stayed up late whispering and giggling like schoolgirls, mostly about her experiences of the day! We were giddy and excited.

Albany was just my cousin and I, and our seats were much closer than at WB. This concert was more about the music for us. As one who has almost universally loved Clay's concert performances better than the recorded versions of his songs, this was no exception! I loved all of the medleys- particularly "Oh Little Town of Bethlehem" in the "Jesus" medley, and the whole "Jazzy" medley just knocked my socks off! He seems to have a wonderful time singing that one. The last medley, (what are we calling that one?), made me cry, it was so wistful and filled with longing. He seemed to bring a lot of emotion to WTOW and MGUCL especially. We've never had a problem with the concept of the stories, so we were able to listen without any concern about "pacing" or content. IMO, the stories Clay has chosen fit very well in the flow of the concert, leading into songs that underscore the meanings the stories are meant to convey. We had a great time, and were ready to go again almost immediately.

Poughkeepsie had us packed in there like sardines, which made for a slightly less comfortable evening. Our seats were even closer than at Albany, and we were enjoying the show as usual. (We're both thankfully very low-maintenance when it comes to Clay- he sings, he looks great, he's charming and funny- whatever combination of the above emerges, we're always pretty happy about it!) The highlight for us came during the Jazzy medley, during the 2nd verse/version of "It's the Most Wonderful...." In the middle of that 2nd version, he makes eye contact and smiles. I could feel a shit-eatin' grin spread over my face, at which point he breaks out in an even BIGGER smile, and I let out a yelp and covered my face with my hands- totally buttered and toasted on both sides!!! Eye contact from Clay is LETHAL, I'm telling ya! At the end of the night, which, as always, seemed to go by too quickly, we were already pining away for the next leg of the tour. I'm at work for one day tomorrow, then we're off again for the rest of the week to see Red Bank, Morristown and Williamsport!

As far as the reviews go, I won't even bother reading the ones that I know in advance are negative. My cousin is originally from the Albany area, so she knew of the reviewer, and what his likely response would be. I've seen references to it here and elsewhere, and feel no need to look into it further.

For us, it is as it always is everytime we see Clay- no matter how many times we go, it never seems to be enough, and we always wish for more! I love what he gives to us, and what he shows us about who he is and what is important to him, and I am happy that he has taken the stance that the shows he puts on are "his", and that he will do what makes him happy. There will always be those who are "dissatisfied" with one aspect or another of his shows, and some who it seems are pretty near impossible to satisfy- EVER- and he will accept that, perhaps even acknowledge it, and then go on doing exactly what he wants to do. I kinda love that about him!

[Couch Tomato]

When it comes to critics I just think about the long line of reviews from everything he has ever done starting with MoaM. It's been brutal. Very few negative reviews IMO have been of the opened minded variety. Some have. But I do have critics in a totally different box than fans. JBT was the worst reviewed tour. Almost every review was negative and personal. So I definitely have a trepidation when it comes to reading them although I do know it's just one person'a opinion and has no more value or validity than my own. I haven't read the article yet..but if it's the one that said Clay would put on anything without thought cuz he knows his fans will see him..well it will be hard fo rme to listen to him with an open mind because that's just not something I feel Clay has ever done.

Thanks lajeterfan for your review!! Glad you had fun.

[muskifest]

but if it's the one that said Clay would put on anything without thought cuz he knows his fans will see him..well it will be hard fo rme to listen to him with an open mind because that's just not something I feel Clay has ever done.

Yeah, but you know, couchie...sometimes the people who say this kind of thing say it because so much is talked about---by Clay himself on stage, for crying out loud! ---those '3,000 or 5,000 fans who DO go anywhere he goes! Now I DO agree that the way this guy said his statement made it sound more like Clay was the person manipulating those fans, rather than it being the fans who WILL pretty much go see anything he does, and that sucks because we know that's not true.

But I also have to say that when I read that Sean guy's 'review', I thought I'd taken a wrong turn somewhere and ended up in Clay La La Land! I don't really understand how people can categorically dismiss the Albany critic's review because he had opinions that pointed out what he considered weaknesses in the show, yet get so very excited about the positive things written in a blog by a very obviously biased observer! What's the difference? Are one person's reflections more valid than another when they match your own, or merely more palatable?

If the ALbany reviewer had 'an agenda' because he didn't like everything about Clay, couldn't the same be said for the blogger who quite admittedly loved Clay before seeing the show?

[Claygasm]

Couchie - "we" may think that Clay would never do that because we love and adore him and follow him religiously. But this (and I suspect most reviewers) don't. They may get a different impression of Clay because they only see one show. The guy in Albany last saw Clay in the vignettes. Who can blame him for wondering why this guy who obviously has so much personality doesn't seem to want to show it in concert?

My lurking friend knew this would not be a good review because of other reviews this guy has written about Clay, but she was pleasantly surprised that he mentioned some of Clay's positive attributes. He just wondered why he didn't show any of them in this particular production - an opinion I have heard voiced by quite a few of his fans.

I just think its really easy to dismiss any bad reviews and embrace any good ones. But all I am saying is this guy at least took the time to see what else Clay is capable of and mention some of the good things. And he didn't have to do that.

Now, of course since I agree with SOME of his points it is easier for me to read it and not get angry. But to be honest, the only bad reviews I have every been angry about are the ones that (1) don't review the show but only "review" Clay (a.k.a. make fun of him) and/or (2) have obviously not watched the show. If they clearly did see it, as this guy did, and just don't like it and say why and don't trash Clay as a person then I am ok with that. Not everyone will like Clay. I am ok with that too.

Different strokes and all that.

ETA:

If the ALbany reviewer had 'an agenda' because he didn't like everything about Clay, couldn't the same be said for the blogger who quite admittedly loved Clay before seeing the show?

Exactly, muski.

[Ansamcw]

I think its just human nature to like something that agrees with us.

Well...I really like Clay...when I see something he did that I really like and I post on it in the board do you think I am just saying I like it because I really like Clay? Or can I have an honest positive reaction.

I give Sean the benefit of the doubt too. I don't think he necessarily has an agenda...I can believe he truly liked it because that was my reaction.

I truly believe the albany critic didn't like it...I have no problem with that. BUT...to suggest that Clay went the easy route on this tour because he knows the fans will be there???? That is truly giving a nasty spin on this production.

First of all...I do believe it takes more out of Clay to stand there in that little space and be still and be in character than sit down in front of an audience and gab the whole night and sing. So yeah I think for this statement the guy is an idiot. I don't think he is an idiot because he didn't like it...but because he wants to put Clay in the worse light possible. IMO.

[Couch Tomato]

I understand that CG..but the point I was trying to make is that due to my 5 years experince with reviewers and Clay I don't automatically give them any benefit of any doubt. Having worked on FCA since he began touring I've read every single review. I've read a few negative reviews that were fair but they are rare. (and I don't consider mixed reviews negative) So I'm not apt to go into any review without starting at the "they are all idiots" point of view and then adjusting it accordingly. And I do adjust accordingly after they earn it. Don't see how it's any way shape or form the same as calling a fan an idiot as I usually call them an idiot before I read a word they have to say. Fair. Maybe not..but that's the way it is. I'm not apt to change any time soon. I always expect the worse.

I respect all fan opinions. Don't need things to be all glowy 24/7. Reviewers are just in a different bag to me. And for the record I have yet to read either review Who is this Shawn..isn't he just some blogger?

As for why people get excited about positive reviews..even from no name bloggers? That one is easy don't you think?

[Claygasm]

I truly believe the albany critic didn't like it...I have no problem with that. BUT...to suggest that Clay went the easy route on this tour because he knows the fans will be there???? That is truly giving a nasty spin on this production.

BUT there is some truth to what he said - not that Clay took an easy route, but that his fans would show up to watch him do just about anything. How many times have "we" said "we" would watch him stand up on stage and read the phone book?

Look, it seems all I am doing lately is arguing. I'm tired of it. I have said my peace about this. Most disagree. I have said my peace about Spamalot clack. Most disagree.

Time to move on.

I assume there were glasses again tonight??????

ETA: One of my pictures from last night. I LOVE the pose!

[Ansamcw]

But that is the role of fans...going to see the ones they love even if they read the phone book...that is not exclusive to clay fans. I don;t have a problem with that...its the suggestion that Clay is being lazy with this production...that is whats amazing to me.

Even his comment on his singing...just tonight I was listening to how many songs he sang that was using all of his range...OCOCE, AIW, OHN, DSIAFCD, MDYK...most of his songs are difficult to sing...SO how can he say that only Quiana and Angela showed off their voices...I just gotta strongly disagree with that too.

[Couch Tomato]

I truly believe the albany critic didn't like it...I have no problem with that. BUT...to suggest that Clay went the easy route on this tour because he knows the fans will be there???? That is truly giving a nasty spin on this production.

BUT there is some truth to what he said - not that Clay took an easy route, but that his fans would show up to watch him do just about anything. How many times have "we" said "we" would watch him stand up on stage and read the phone book?

Look, it seems all I am doing lately is arguing. I'm tired of it. I have said my peace about this. Most disagree. I have said my peace about Spamalot clack. Most disagree.

Time to move on.

I assume there were glasses again tonight??????

Nobody is harder on Clay than his fans. We may say we will show up for him to read the phone book but Clay has never had universal glowing praise over anything. We are not stepford wives. How many people have said they aren't going or aren't sad not to be going ..may no go to shows they have tickets for.

CG I don't consider this arguing at all. This is fun! I just have a strong opinion on it and am stating it..hopefully respectully. Not trying to shut you up. I'm trying to explain my view which is just different. I'm not even arguing content because I have yet to read it...just that one line that jumped out at me and my feelings about reviewers and why I pre-judge them.

With regards to Spamalot... I understand where you are coming from but definitely understand all the sides of this one...especially Clay not wanting massive amounts of clack made available. This is really an issue I have absolutely no control over. I suspect decisions are being made elsewhere about this. What I definitely do not want is to see the entire system upset over Spamalot. But I agree with you on your other points you raised. Maybe we just go back to the innocent times when the Clayboard reports were all we got. Those used to be fun. I still remember how I felt getting the reports from IT. So I look forward to the reports if that's all we get.

[atinal]

I at least have to give Sean credit, he stated up front, that he voted for Clay and has all of he CDs. So he did the full disclosure type of thing.

I don't think I've ever read a critic who blasted Clay give a disclosure up front that, "hey I can't stand the guy, but I'm going to review him anyway", yet I've read many a review that had that bias written all over it.

It seems to me that after the IT, like Couchie said, the critics have been brutal, and it is one of the things that really gets to me. IMO, it's testosterone with a lot of these guys, Clay could blow the roof off of the place and they don't get it, because after all, real men can't like Clay Aiken.

[Gibby]

Cute pic, CG! Do you happen to remember which song he was singing when you took it?

[Claygasm]

Cute pic, CG! Do you happen to remember which song he was singing when you took it?

Thanks. It was from the "Winter" medley, but I forget which song - Sleigh Ride I think - or maybe Jingle Bells?

[Thankful4Clay]

Cute pic, CG! Do you happen to remember which song he was singing when you took it?

Looks like Jingle Bells when the girls do the loud 'way' or 'hey.'

[atinal]

But that is the role of fans...going to see the ones they love even if they read the phone book...that is not exclusive to clay fans. I don;t have a problem with that...its the suggestion that Clay is being lazy with this production...that is whats amazing to me.

Even his comment on his singing...just tonight I was listening to how many songs he sang that was using all of his range...OCOCE, AIW, OHN, DSIAFCD, MDYK...most of his songs are difficult to sing...SO how can he say that only Quiana and Angela showed off their voices...I just gotta strongly disagree with that too.

Exactly, I have often wondered about some of the criticism of Clay fans, follow him everywhere, go to multiple shows, vote for him on polls. Aren't those the things that fans do? Fans of anyone? Yet I almost feel that we have been brow beaten into believing that Clay fans are some how different than other fans. Yes, Clay has some over the top fans. I'll bet most reasonably popular stars do. I'm sure that a lot of popular singers have some "older" fans too, yet it seems to make it into most write ups about Clay, and really what is the relevance?

Ansa, I also agree with the point you made about the singing, how could one ignore Clay's singing on so many of those songs and say that only Angela and Quiana stood out?

[Claygasm]

Ansa, I also agree with the point you made about the singing, how could one ignore Clay's singing on so many of those songs and say that only Angela and Quiana stood out?

Maybe he just doesn't have the same taste we do? Doesn't mean his taste is any better or worse - just different.

I would think it would be extremely difficult to get past your personal preferences when reviewing someone. I mean, what if someone who loved opera went to review a rap concert? The rap concert may be excellent within its genre, but could the reviewer truly appreciate it if they personally hated or knew nothing about rap?

I suppose there are a few who could, but it seems to me it would be very hard to do.

I know I couldn't.

[Couch Tomato]

ah ya'll are going to make me read that article aren't you. nahhhhhhhh. heee

Anyway, wish me luck..interview tomorrow. I really really want it..but it will be very competitive.

CG I think you just spelled out the problem I have with a lot of reviewers. I don't think it's fair for people to review something that is not to their taste at all. I don't cut them slack for having different taste when their biases are affecting what they write and what they write is going out to all manner of people to read. I don't care about joe blow on the streets reaction. This is in general. Still haven't read the articles from today.

[muskifest]

I'm not even arguing content because I have yet to read it...just that one line that jumped out at me and my feelings about reviewers and why I pre-judge them.

Ahhhh! Couchie! You're doing a review of a show without having actually SEEN the show!

:lmaosmiley-1:

Whatever....something just struck me....I remember a friend of mine who came over to FCA when I told her about how refreshing it was to be somewhere there wasn't endless 'tension'...and at first she was put off by the 'aura' of the board that to her seemed too homogenous. She felt that so much of the posts, regardless of the author, were in agreement of things---mostly positive---and that if she expressed her opinion, which was not always rosy, she'd not 'fit in'.

Now it's more like real life---there's no consensus, really---just a lot of opinions. I'm hoping we can find room for all of them and not become a bickering board. God knows there's enough bickering elsewhere online and in our professional and personal real lives to want to set up camp with it here.

I've just realized that I haven't posted this picture lately:

and I really, really like this picture.