#29: EEEEEEEEEEEE!!! It's really happening!

[Couch Tomato]

Well I never talked to a DJ..just the person who answered the phone and took requests. We don't have to befriend them, get into debates with them about Clay..and why would any of us need to talk to station managers. But I don't think online fans give up their rights and have to sit back and do nothing. That's assuming WE don't listen to radio and I just don't believe that's true. I know I don't but I'm sure I'm the minority. And I'm smart enough to take on the snot nosed call screener. Basically, use common sense.

[playbiller]

Akim, was there aver any question? Hm she neededa few days to think it over ,heh. Smart girl.

I hope that fans will let the new song grow "organically" on the radio if the single is released to radio stations.

Yes, but you see....HOW do things grow "organically" if noone is allowed to even WHISPER that they like this piece of music to a DJ??

Now, I think the pendulum has swung too far. As far as I can see (knowing nothing about current radio~I did work for 3 years at a radio station in my 20's. That's many years ago, in case y'all didn't understand that) there is no way we can win here. We're not allowed to call a DJ and request; payola is out...so how DO the DJ's/PD's know when something is popular and people want to hear it? Can someone answer that? This IS a serious question, by the way...

I think there is no problem if you connect with streaming stations or with stations in your local area, but I clearly people posting to request all fans write to a DJ is Oshkosh. Some even provided sample letters which made sure they all sounded the same. Call or write your station once a week when the song is released. This has been said by others many times, yet is quickly forgotten.

I don't think this was so much about radio (except using simplistic answers and straw men), but about the over reaction of the on-line groups.

I think this fandom will do anything tonot take personal responsibilty or to take a long hard look at how they apper. Remember when we were discussing the reputation of being a "mean" board. And some dismiss it, and some, like me try and excuse my behavior. There are reasons I go back ad delete posts. I know I go over the line, not only here, but in other places, and the edit key is my friend. I have spent a life time developing a quiet exterior but have always had an emotional core which goes over the line. Weh I go to blogs, I write and read and write and read over and over again before pushing hat send button. I cannot edit them. I try to take a "if you can't say anything positive" stance and I strongly stand by my not giving hits to people who say thing... which is why I hate it when posters do not identify where they are sending me with a blind link - "hey, look at this!"

A lot of us need more thatn a reminder. And if I hear one more person say "clayshould blog about this" Because he has blogged and people have ignored his blogs or said he couldn't say what he wanted because RCA controlled his blogs, even though he blogged that they did not! Therer are many that do not want to see.

I am sure this is erupting at the OFC and maybe later I will write one of my tomes and post it there, but I just do not have the stomache for it.

As for people who quit posting at various places, well, that leaves some of us without friends there. sniff, sob

It is the straw men, it is always someone else's fault never ours. It is so easy that way.

[aikim]

Kim... YAY!!! Here comes the bride and bride's momma!!!

Hee! I think the "bride's momma" may need some duct tape for her mouth and a valium before the whole thing is over! Was talking to her last night and all of sudden I heard my mother's voice coming out of my mouth giving her unsolicitated advice on her wedding. I snapped my mouth shut so fast I think my jaws snapped. I so remember when I was planning my wedding and nuts my mother drove me and I do not want to be her. She actually laughed and said "Mom, you know no matter what you tell me, I am going to do what I want anyway".

On to heavier stuff...

I personally cringe everytime I see the word "haters" because I think it has become a buzz word for anyone who says anything that could remotely be construed as a diss. There are true haters like the swamp trash and then there are just people; who for them, Clay is not their cuppa...and that is okay. People are allowed to not like Clay and sending e-mails and getting into a war of words with people is not going to change that. This is what drives me nuts...the constant need to defend Clay for every little thing...it has given Clay fans a bad reputation and I don't think saying that on a fan board is "fan policing". I think behaviors that are affecting Clay and his career should be addressed, respectfully, but addressed. Not personal attacks, but the behavior. And sure the people who most need to get the message won't hear it, but maybe some will.

Kim

[Couch Tomato]

Oh I use the word haters a lot but mean it only for those that plot to cause trouble for Clay. That's it. And I don't give them the time of day.

I don't take offense for people that don't like Clay's music. I didn't even hate the NY mag article. It takes a lot to get me riled up. But I know where you are coming from aikim. Congrats! And good you raised a strong, independent daughter that knows her own mind. I'm sure she'll appreciate your feedback.

[laljeterfan]

Here's a sweet story I'm stealing from DeepSouthGurrl at CH:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I'm still in Nashville attending a fair managers meeting. Last night at a dinner everyone at our table was discussing going downtown to "honky tonk". I opted out because it was pouring down rain, cold, and I had done the "honky tonks" a few months earlier.

Well, one of my friends sitting with us tells everyone that actually I probably wanted to go back to my room and get the latest Clay Aiken news. There were several people at the table who said "Who's Clay Aiken?" I hates that question!

Before I could answer, an older gentleman sitting with us smiled at me and said "I know who he is". He then said, "Let me tell y'all a story. [qoute/]

He proceeded to tell about when he was a young man and was trying to get a group to go with him to hear a young singer he was crazy about. When they wanted to know who and he told them his name...everyone's response was, "Who's Elvis Presley?"

He patted my hand and said for me not to worry...I won't have to answer that question much longer. He said Clay Aiken has the same charisma and great talent as a young Elvis Presley. He said hold on...you're going on a great and long ride. "

[ldyjocelyn]

hold on...you're going on a great and long ride

Thread title?

What a great story. Thanks for bringing it over laljeterfan!

[FromClaygary]

Waaaaaahh!! Just saw a mention elsewhere that AOL first listen doesn't work anywhere but in the US....and I think she's right in that, seems to me I experienced that last time.

Will someone be able to "rip" from it, does anyone know? Or are us Canadians forced to be "virgins" whether we like it or not?

[playbiller]

why not try to run it using anaymizer software? maybe it won't know what country you are from then.

[00lsee]

lightmyfire

Payola is an over-rated excuse utilized by this fandom.

Fair enough. But then again,"this fandom" is an over-rated excuse utilized by people, also.

I continue to doubt that "we" have that much control over this corrupt industry, just as I continue to doubt that DJs and program directors at corporate-owned stations have all that much power over which songs they play, regardless of fan behavior. Have there been/are there some regrettable, damaging, and abusive things done/said in the "defense" of Clay? Sure. But if the fans, as a group, lose the reputation for enthusiasm, that's taking caution too far the other way, in my opinion, As long as there are appropriate ways for me to support Clay's music, I will continue to do so.

I personally cringe everytime I see the word "haters" because I think it has become a buzz word for anyone who says anything that could remotely be construed as a diss. There are true haters like the swamp trash and then there are just people; who for them, Clay is not their cuppa...and that is okay. People are allowed to not like Clay and sending e-mails and getting into a war of words with people is not going to change that. This is what drives me nuts...the constant need to defend Clay for every little thing...it has given Clay fans a bad reputation and I don't think saying that on a fan board is "fan policing". I think behaviors that are affecting Clay and his career should be addressed, respectfully, but addressed. Not personal attacks, but the behavior. And sure the people who most need to get the message won't hear it, but maybe some will.

First, congratulations, aikim, both for your good news and for your trying to be smart about your daughter's independence. She'll have no idea how hard it was for you to avoid meddling until she has her own kids. heh

As for the haters...those fall into a few categories for me...

the working haters (media: television, radio, tabloids, some bloggers, etc)

the dedicated haters/plotters individuals who stalk Clay/fans around the internet and other media

the incidental haters individuals who spew bigotry and ignorance or else express their dislike for Clay/his music/his fans in a unnecessarily personal, spiteful way...or who merely repeat/spread what the others have done/said.

When hateful attitudes/words reflect a larger societal problem of sexual prejudice and stereotypes, THAT's what I comment on. If I respond to a private individual or someone in media, it won't be because Clay Aiken is "not their cuppa"...but in HOW they express this dislike, particularly if they are in a professional capacity. Yes, fans should take responsibility, but sometimes bigots should be held accountable, too.

[muskifest]

Oh man....I LVOE that story re: Elvis....

You guys RAWK! You DO know that, don't you? Interesting perspectives, different but not antagonizing, with the posters willing to look at various possibilities.

What a concept!

Congrats on the bride and groom, atinal! As for wedding angst? Don't know about it. Got married in Hawaii--bought my dress at a beachwear shop, went to a luau instead of a rehearsal dinner, hung around a pool drinking little drinks with paper umbrellas in them until two hours before the ceremony, which took place in an open-sided thatched 'chapel' in the middle of a coconut grove and was picked up at the bungalow and then driven to the chapel in a golf cart.

FUN!FUN!FUN!

I'm back to the real world and the weekend's usual stuff---softball, soccer and school play productions.....later, friends. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[FromClaygary]

why not try to run it using anaymizer software? maybe it won't know what country you are from then.

Could you speak English please?

[Ansamcw]

Awww great story...thanks for bringing it over!

FromClaygary...as far as I know most local djs and radio stations have no real say on what gets played on their stations. These are usually dictated by the corporation. The local PDs have some leeway on requests times or they may have an allowance to add one or two songs to their to their playlist but they have very little choice really on what they can play and how much they can play a song or even when they can play it. On corporate level...I do believe it does take some payola for a song to even be considered for the playlist. But this will only determine how much exposure the stations will give it in the beginning. If the song is from a well known hit maker...no huge payola is really necessary. The stations do want songs from these hit makers cos they want to have something to keep their listeners happy. That is why in the early days of MY December...Kelly got pretty decent airplay. However when the feedback was poor on her songs and RCA was not ready to add more Payola to keep it alive...her songs died out. So a songs continued play will depend how well the target audience liked the song and how much money the label is willing to pour into it. They will only continue pouring money if the sales support it.

As far as I know PDs use several ways to read the popularity of a song. I do believe they have companies that call their target market and do surveys....then there are the unsolicited feedback they get directly from their audience...but I think they do suspect that because they know some artist have street teams that call stations to get attention. They also use online rating systems. I have read that they also look at the interest on the net. How much the songs they put on their sites get hits and what is popular on you tube and just general buzz on the net. I do think that they find it suspicious if there are sudden spikes on responses to online polls...if they regularly get 1000 hits then one day they get 10000 and a big part of it goes to one artist then it is very obvious that the fans are spamming. I think to let it grow organically....means we just have to be patient. Let Clay's music and voice do the trick. If the song is really not going to connect to a mainstream audience ...it won't get anywhere.

My advice to fans...buy his cd...talk about him to friends...buy tickets to his shows...watch the TV shows he is on. If you are a regular listener to a radio station and Clay;s song is in their playlist...put a request for it for the appropriate show. But if you don't care about radio...just let it go. Clay's people will do their part to get the PDS to hear and consider the song. If they don;t like it...maybe they will like the next one. But as fans we have no power to influence radio. It has to happen organically as underthespell said. Let the awareness of the songs grow and if the time is right and if its the right song...the hit will come.

[aikim]

Oh man....I LVOE that story re: Elvis....

You guys RAWK! You DO know that, don't you? Interesting perspectives, different but not antagonizing, with the posters willing to look at various possibilities.

What a concept!

Congrats on the bride and groom, atinal! As for wedding angst? Don't know about it. Got married in Hawaii--bought my dress at a beachwear shop, went to a luau instead of a rehearsal dinner, hung around a pool drinking little drinks with paper umbrellas in them until two hours before the ceremony, which took place in an open-sided thatched 'chapel' in the middle of a coconut grove and was picked up at the bungalow and then driven to the chapel in a golf cart.

FUN!FUN!FUN!

I'm back to the real world and the weekend's usual stuff---softball, soccer and school play productions.....later, friends. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Um...I think you mean me unless atinal has a wedding coming up too...congrats if so!

Emily just called, she is on her way over to show me the ring!

Kim

[bottlecap]

Is there a link that is an organized 'photo album' of pics of Clay since he was an infant? I really love his baby pics, and those cheeky pics of him as a little boy. I thought he was adorable, and sometimes I can see that cheeky expression in the pics we see of him today.

ETA: I've been browsing at Amazon.com..... I notice some other Clay books by authors I've not heard of. Are any of them recommended?

claytonic, try this Young Clay photo thread from the Clayboard. Another good board to use for Clay pictures is Clay Aiken Pic City. The pictures are very well organized, and I've found it easy to locate specific pictures that I want.

As to the other "Clay" books on Amazon, I don't any are particularly recommended. I'd stick with "Learning to Sing."

[Ansamcw]

Is there a link that is an organized 'photo album' of pics of Clay since he was an infant? I really love his baby pics, and those cheeky pics of him as a little boy. I thought he was adorable, and sometimes I can see that cheeky expression in the pics we see of him today.

ETA: I've been browsing at Amazon.com..... I notice some other Clay books by authors I've not heard of. Are any of them recommended?

claytonic, try this Young Clay photo thread from the Clayboard. Another good board to use for Clay pictures is Clay Aiken Pic City. The pictures are very well organized, and I've found it easy to locate specific pictures that I want.

As to the other "Clay" books on Amazon, I don't any are particularly recommended. I'd stick with "Learning to Sing."

Hey Bottle...nice to hear from you!!!

[Thankful4Clay]

I think the press release was fine and I'm thrilled that we'll get a song on Monday. I just hope it's available before I go to work. If not, it's going to be a very long day. I might have to bring my laptop with me and head to Barnes & Noble on my lunch for some free Wi-Fi.

Thanks for the idea, Thankful4Clay! I have a long day at work on Monday and there's no way I can listen on the networked computers. But I have a laptop with an air card for another job, and an office with a door that closes. Perfect! Why didn't I think of that?

I feel better now.

I wish I had an air card. Those a bit too pricey for me. Glad I could help!!

[HeidiHo]

There's been a huge discussion on that over at CV. It's too simplistic. I do believe the fans did piss off some radio stations early on, but we all know payola is a huge part of it.

While I do think there are a lot of reasons, I think it’s very, very easy to blame everything on RCA, thereby giving over zealous fans a pass. Fans are still doing these sorts of things, we see evidence of it every single day, and none of them think “gee, maybe lots of people are doing this and I shouldn’t”. I believe everything she said that Clay thinks is likely true, probably because I’ve said much the same things.

I’ve heard DJs discuss Taylor Hicks fans on the radio here for the same reasons. Said they were getting spammed from outside the listening area about things they hadn’t even said because it was mis-represented by the person doing the telling on some message board somewhere. Talked about how they would NEVER play Taylor because of it. ON the Air. I take it as a given that Clay is more popular than Taylor, therefore the problems/issues bigger in the minds of DJs. Not defending DJs here – I think many of them are small minded petty people, from the way they talk on the radio. But if you KNOW that some fans are over reacting, wouldn’t you take steps to try NOT to??

ETA: Thankful...again, three sides to every story. I think payola is only one piece of the puzzle, and we really don't know how big of a piece that is. Just as we don't know how many fans are spamming radio stations. And Clay knows about the people who try to "correct" people when they write something about him. He mentioned it to Ken Barnes at USA Today. I hate to say this, but sometimes stereotypes are based on a grain of truth.

Word.

ETA: If I ever had information from Clay or someone that I got at a M&G or where ever, I don't think I would share it with the fandom at large on a message board because those that didn't believe what I said would label me a liar and doubt my honesty and integrity on those boards. Now that's mean!

Just saying.....

:::snort::: Ain’t that the truth!!

I hope that fans will let the new song grow "organically" on the radio if the single is released to radio stations.

Yes, but you see....HOW do things grow "organically" if noone is allowed to even WHISPER that they like this piece of music to a DJ??

Now, I think the pendulum has swung too far. As far as I can see (knowing nothing about current radio~I did work for 3 years at a radio station in my 20's. That's many years ago, in case y'all didn't understand that) there is no way we can win here. We're not allowed to call a DJ and request; payola is out...so how DO the DJ's/PD's know when something is popular and people want to hear it? Can someone answer that? This IS a serious question, by the way...

Promosquad. iTunes. What is that other site that radio stations look at? I can’t remember.

Also….do we KNOW for a fact that RCA isn’t supporting it to radio? No, I don’t think we do. We assume we know.

I agree with atinal that there were numerous reasons why Clay's music didn't get played on radio; likely a fan over-reaction is one item on the list, and IMHO one fairly far down on the list. It's way too easy to blame the fans.

Like it’s too easy to blame on “other” things. I think fans are not far down on the list at all, from personal experience.

I wouldn’t mind the “there’s lots of reasons” view so much if some fans would take a bit of responsibility for their own actions. The instantaneous "that couldn't have been an on-line Clay fan" reaction bugs - of course it COULD be!! How can you eliminate that immediately?

I personally cringe everytime I see the word "haters" because I think it has become a buzz word for anyone who says anything that could remotely be construed as a diss. There are true haters like the swamp trash and then there are just people; who for them, Clay is not their cuppa...and that is okay. People are allowed to not like Clay and sending e-mails and getting into a war of words with people is not going to change that. This is what drives me nuts...the constant need to defend Clay for every little thing...it has given Clay fans a bad reputation and I don't think saying that on a fan board is "fan policing". I think behaviors that are affecting Clay and his career should be addressed, respectfully, but addressed. Not personal attacks, but the behavior. And sure the people who most need to get the message won't hear it, but maybe some will.

Amen!!!

[atinal]

Oh man....I LVOE that story re: Elvis....

You guys RAWK! You DO know that, don't you? Interesting perspectives, different but not antagonizing, with the posters willing to look at various possibilities.

What a concept!

Congrats on the bride and groom, atinal! As for wedding angst? Don't know about it. Got married in Hawaii--bought my dress at a beachwear shop, went to a luau instead of a rehearsal dinner, hung around a pool drinking little drinks with paper umbrellas in them until two hours before the ceremony, which took place in an open-sided thatched 'chapel' in the middle of a coconut grove and was picked up at the bungalow and then driven to the chapel in a golf cart.

FUN!FUN!FUN!

I'm back to the real world and the weekend's usual stuff---softball, soccer and school play productions.....later, friends. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Um...I think you mean me unless atinal has a wedding coming up too...congrats if so!

Emily just called, she is on her way over to show me the ring!

Kim

Nope, not me, but let me add my congrats to you and your daughter. I hope you have lots of fun memorable experiences helping her plan her wedding.

[aikim]

The ring is gorgeous..white gold; one very large square cut diamond and diamonds around the band...makes mine look puny in comparison, LOL!

So no date yet, but probably mid-October; she said they will try and get the date firmed up by next week so the planning can begin...and...Lord, help me...she figures that if they get married in October, January is a good time to start thinking about getting pregnant! I am so not ready for this!

Kim

[lightmyfire]

lightmyfire

Payola is an over-rated excuse utilized by this fandom.

Fair enough. But then again,"this fandom" is an over-rated excuse utilized by people, also.

I continue to doubt that "we" have that much control over this corrupt industry, just as I continue to doubt that DJs and program directors at corporate-owned stations have all that much power over which songs they play, regardless of fan behavior. Have there been/are there some regrettable, damaging, and abusive things done/said in the "defense" of Clay? Sure. But if the fans, as a group, lose the reputation for enthusiasm, that's taking caution too far the other way, in my opinion, As long as there are appropriate ways for me to support Clay's music, I will continue to do so.

I personally cringe everytime I see the word "haters" because I think it has become a buzz word for anyone who says anything that could remotely be construed as a diss. There are true haters like the swamp trash and then there are just people; who for them, Clay is not their cuppa...and that is okay. People are allowed to not like Clay and sending e-mails and getting into a war of words with people is not going to change that. This is what drives me nuts...the constant need to defend Clay for every little thing...it has given Clay fans a bad reputation and I don't think saying that on a fan board is "fan policing". I think behaviors that are affecting Clay and his career should be addressed, respectfully, but addressed. Not personal attacks, but the behavior. And sure the people who most need to get the message won't hear it, but maybe some will.

First, congratulations, aikim, both for your good news and for your trying to be smart about your daughter's independence. She'll have no idea how hard it was for you to avoid meddling until she has her own kids. heh

As for the haters...those fall into a few categories for me...

the working haters (media: television, radio, tabloids, some bloggers, etc)

the dedicated haters/plotters individuals who stalk Clay/fans around the internet and other media

the incidental haters individuals who spew bigotry and ignorance or else express their dislike for Clay/his music/his fans in a unnecessarily personal, spiteful way...or who merely repeat/spread what the others have done/said.

When hateful attitudes/words reflect a larger societal problem of sexual prejudice and stereotypes, THAT's what I comment on. If I respond to a private individual or someone in media, it won't be because Clay Aiken is "not their cuppa"...but in HOW they express this dislike, particularly if they are in a professional capacity. Yes, fans should take responsibility, but sometimes bigots should be held accountable, too.

I agree with Clay's assessment. As far as the "corrupt industry," I am not going to spend one second defending radio and the music industry. Each individual's life experience differs and I respect those differences. You have your beliefs and I have mine. Clay signed the contract with RCA/19E and I support him with purchasing his published recordings and concert tickets which is the fashion that I desire.

I am looking forward to Clay's next studio effort with track producer, Kipper.

I have "control" over my own life and I am happy.

keepingfaith..... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[Thankful4Clay]

The ring is gorgeous..white gold; one very large square cut diamond and diamonds around the band...makes mine look puny in comparison, LOL!

So no date yet, but probably mid-October; she said they will try and get the date firmed up by next week so the planning can begin...and...Lord, help me...she figures that if they get married in October, January is a good time to start thinking about getting pregnant! I am so not ready for this!

Kim

How old is your daughter?

I got engaged on April 1st, yes April Fools Day, and we got married on Nov 15. I thought that was a tight time frame. Is your daughter making this a small wedding?

ETA: I've really enjoyed reading everyone's views this morning.

[Ansamcw]

For the most part I do believe a lot of the fans have learned a lesson on radio play. I think we were simply really naive about how the whole thing works. But I do believe that the one thing that some fans haven;t learned yet is that it is really not up to us to make Clay a superstar. It is not up to us to get Clay radio play...We can only buy his products but its up to Clay to win a new audience over.

I guess for me...what squicked me out about the PR firm info being passed all around the fanboards ...s that it will lead to fans contacting the firm or scrutinizing them if they are doing a good job or not. Simply getting too much into Clay's business and acting like supervisors making sure everyone is working towards the goal of making clay a superstar... TC does not work for the fans but for Clay and he knows what he wants and how to get it.

[gbmifan]

My oldest son two years ago, got engaged in July and married on Thanksgiving weekend. I was a gorgeous wedding, nothing left out, three hundred people at it. He had it at a country club, beautifully decorated, and had the ceremony and reception together. The guest were sitted at their tables, the immediate family at chairs in front of the bride and groom. Everything turned out great. My youngest son has had a longer engagement. We are having the traditional church ceremony, followed by a reception a few hours later. My middle son, decided on a short cermony at city hall with a reception two weeks later. Everyone different, but all nice.

[playbiller]

I don't think I need to post if HeidiHo would post more often.

anonymizer software hides your personal information from sites that you visit. Your cookies can be stored on their server. There is free and not so free software to do that. This may hide country of origin. If you want to try it, you should test it before the date.

Such a beautiful day, why do I want to wander into NYC? Nope, I picked up the litter and branches, etc. Time to get up the stubborn acorns and dead grass. good bye cruel world, I have work to do. (fot the needle work people, that would be good bye crewel world)

[cha cha trusty]

The ring is gorgeous..white gold; one very large square cut diamond and diamonds around the band...makes mine look puny in comparison, LOL!

So no date yet, but probably mid-October; she said they will try and get the date firmed up by next week so the planning can begin...and...Lord, help me...she figures that if they get married in October, January is a good time to start thinking about getting pregnant! I am so not ready for this!

Kim

Oh man!!! you are in for a busy summer! One of my daughters graduated in May 04 and decided to get married in September 04. I have never had such a busy summer! (well, unless you consider the summer of 02 when another daughter got married in October!! After the "date" is set, which really boils down to finding an available place to have the wedding, then the fun begins!

I reinforce my offer for assistance!! :F_05BL17blowkiss: