#34: So, how about that Clay Aiken?

[KAndre]

I have to draw back from even the notion of discussing such a thing with his mother - even if I was personally doing the horizontal bugaloo with Clay himself.

Lord. On personal issues, there is such a fine line and frankly in many ways, unsolicited opinions on major aspects of people's lives I think can be detrimental. Whether it's sexuality or fertility or who you live with or what personal shit you share with the public. Because it's real easy to say, well, I would do this, that or the other...people deal with things differently. Crap that might roll off your back may devastate someone else. And frankly, the best person to judge that is usually the person dealing with it. Especially when it comes to other people's expectations of what you may be.

[cagney1950]

www.roseradio.com

should be playing OMWH in the next 10 minutes.

they stream

[djs111]

Well since you don't know the whys and how of that conversation, which is no ones business, then I think you should not judge me.

Well, like your assessment of clay's sexuality by observation, all we can go on is what is presented to us. And maybe you would lie about that, because to tell the truth would perhaps put you in a bad light. That sort of argument can be applied to everything, now that I consider it! :-) If that conversation is no one's business, why even bring it up?

I don't think this is quite the "bomb" you might be expecting to have dropped, because you are not saying anything that Todd Venice wasn't spouting years ago. Yawn.

Anyway, what's wrong with judging someone by their posts? If it is okay to judge people's sexuality from the outside?

[playbiller]

One of the funniest typos in the history of the world!

the size of his hose - that is right, even if he never mentioned it,

You got THAT right, Play!

And this is another reason I never really fit in, Damn spell checkerrrrrrr

[muskifest]

Anyway, what's wrong with judging someone by their posts?

This tickled me 'coss last year in Houston I met someone who only knew me by my stories. When she was introduced to me, she about had a cow. I kept feeling her looking at me and when I asked her what was wrong, she just said in a daze, "You...you just look so.....NORMAL."

BWAH!

[Couch Tomato]

One of the funniest typos in the history of the world!

the size of his hose - that is right, even if he never mentioned it,

You got THAT right, Play!

And this is another reason I never really fit in, Damn spell checkerrrrrrr

hee I love you Play!!

[Iseeme]

Awww Play - I think you fit in just fine!!!

And I'm sorry. I know you were trying to be serious with your list but I nearly choked when I read your typo. But, in fact, I don't care the size of his HOUSE either! Just glad I don't have to clean it. Oh wait! Hmmmm. On second thought, that might be fun!

Hee - that emoticon Muski used looks just like the face Clay made when he was telling Kimmel about going to Chinatown! Seriously - check it out!

[Clayzorback]

I DO KNOW GAYS UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL.

I'm not trying to debate with or change anybody's mind, or think I know him personaly. Just stating what I honestly think. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. *shrug* Already said I would apologize personally to Clay if I was wrong. If you don't think he is, that's your perogative.

I am really starting to love this song.

Forget I Ever Knew You Lyrics by Clay Aiken:

’I lie awake while the rest of the world sleeps happily

I’m tossing and turning in the dark

I try to make some sense of the mess that calls itself my life

Just wish I knew where I should start

I’d go back in time if I could

and erase you from my mind for good

I get so tired of trying

Maybe I should just...

Fly away let my heart pretend

My dream comes true and the story ends

I get on my feet and start again

And forget I ever knew you

I leave the past and rise above

I let you go and fall in love

With everything that I’m made of

Say goodbye to all I’ve been through

And forget I ever knew you

I turn the page I’ve got nothing to say but I’ll start writing anyway

Something that gets me moving on again

Stuck in this place I’m putting one foot in front of the other foot

Maybe today I’ll let this be over and done again

I’d make up my mind if I could

And leave this all behind me for good

I’m getting tired of trying

So maybe I should just...

Fly away let my heart pretend

My dream comes true and the story ends

[ Forget I Ever Knew You song text brought to you by LyricsYouLove ]

I get on my feet and start again

And forget I ever knew you

I leave the past and rise above

I let you go and fall in love

With everything that I’m made of

Say goodbye to all I’ve been through

And forget I ever knew you

The sun can shine a little brighter now

I’m gonna make it on my own somehow

And I will start feeling alive again, yeah

I’ll start living life with no regrets

’Cause the best hasn’t happened yet

I’m just fine with you out of my life

I’ll just, fly away let my heart pretend

My dream comes true and the story ends

I get on my feet and start again

And forget I ever knew you

I leave the past and rise above

I let you go and fall in love

With everything that I’m made of

Say goodbye to all I’ve been through

And forget I ever knew you

And forget I ever knew you

I never knew you

Say goodbye to all I’ve been through

And forget I ever knew you’

[annabear]

One of the funniest typos in the history of the world!

the size of his hose - that is right, even if he never mentioned it,

You got THAT right, Play!

And this is another reason I never really fit in, Damn spell checkerrrrrrr

OK. That was FUNNY.

Oh, and Play, FWIW, I think you fit in just fine. What exactly does fitting in mean anyway? We're from all over here, we're all at different ages and stages in our lives, we have different interests apart from Clay. We have to define our own way of fitting in.

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

[Scarlett]

Too many great posts today. I can't quote them all but I'll make up for that tonight when the pages have moved a bit... For now, I'll just say ITA with djs, Iseeme (both times), KAndre, play, oh and for the matter at hand, Clay.

I make an exception for the "we have a large number of unbiased witnesses" part from KAndre, though, because witnesses have an unfortunate habit of disappearing.

<snip>

(is it too early to have a drink do you think?)

How often can I say that Iseeme's my girl! Would love to buy you that drink!!!

And about that that lying thing and how he "deceived them and misrepresented himself" -- unless he actually talked to them while pretending to be someone else, the deception part clearly does not hold water.

:F_05BL17blowkiss: Gibby! I love your quote and I do hope it's the next thread title!!! (starts campaigning for it)

[clayzedover]

rant alert/

I am one of those struggling with the fans' struggles. Like others here, the initial shock wore off in 24 hours and all I could feel was happiness for them. I don't know either Clay or Jaymes, but if this is their choice, who am I to ask for any explanation. This is personal, private business. Nothing to do with me. Besides, if Clay were exactly the same person they marketed him as five years ago, he'd be BORING. IMO he is anything BUT that. I am a firm believer that everything happens for a reason. Maybe it's time to shed that "role model" personna that was so deftly taken from him in 2006 anyway and allow him to show the world the breadth of his talents.

Like others, I did come for the voice. Had me hooked at "Take..." and never could imagine my life without that voice in it. Like others, I stayed for the "man" that he is. That, IMO has not changed. His love and concern for children who bear "the weight of the world" in their infancy and youth tells me all I need to know about the man and his heart.

It really is an eye opener when those who have seen these things and supported them over the last few years are ready, willing and able to walk away from him and these efforts. Just boggles the mind. Over a BABY? An innocent life that I can see him wanting to protect at all costs? IIT, nobody knows the circumstances or what motiviated this. All of those who worshipped at the pedistal saw something in him then, is that gone now? Is the man who cared so much about his beliefs that he was willing to walk away from Disney tour support if they disagreed with his use of and staging for YWT during his first solo concert not there any longer? And, if they are projecting their own beliefs on him so stridently, do they look in a mirror and ask themselves who they are to be judging him? Last I heard, judgement wasn't MY job -- or anybody else's, unless they were part of a Jury.

As for the everpresent gay innuendo, I came to terms with it a LONG time ago. I don't know, and just don't care. Some probably do care, very much. There may be more delusional people out ther than I realized. Some may belong to churches that see it as sinful, while other churches have practitioners as bishops. I have friends who are more committed to their gay partners and in longer term relationships than some of those judgemental people on their third marriages, still unhappy, but casting aspersions on others because their lifestyle might be different. IMO, some of these judgemental people are more concerned with what others think of THEM for supporting him, than they care to admit.

And, since when does insemination = gay? From what I've read, if Jaymes is pregnant she probably needed some kind of "help." Some reject the insemination aspect and would be accepting if it was done in the "normal" way. So, is one action more "moral" than another? The sad part to me is that their privacy has been invaded. If Jaymes did this at her age, she must have wanted a child very badly. There are a lot of risks for her and for the baby. If not for Jaymes, we would not have this CD and I LOVE it We would not have Lover All Alone. Do some people think this was some kind of new conspiracy by the Fosters to harvest the Aiken genes for the next generation of beautiful voices? Sheesh...

end of rant/

[djs111]

I DO KNOW GAYS UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL.

Oooh! Ooooh! Me too! My dear departed sweetie's daughter is gay, and over the years she and her partner, and three other couples, have spent many weekends here at my home.

So, does that make me an expert? I just thought I knew some gay people.

Anyway, I cannot imagine what would change your mind about Clay being gay, considering you feel you know him better than he does, himself, because you did some research and know some gay people. It is not even a debating point, as you say, but just knowing gay people up close and personal is not any kind of accreditation, IMO.

I didn't know Clay wrote Forget I Ever Knew You - did he?

I googled why artificial insemination and dang! having a gay partner was not even in the five or so reasons that were listed. To list that stuff feels invasive, so I won't, but I don't see the RUMOURED A.I. thing as any kind of tortuous "proof" whatsoever. Not insisting on the straight thing, just sayin' using that as an argument is verra verra weak.

[Clayzorback]

Well since you don't know the whys and how of that conversation, which is no ones business, then I think you should not judge me.

Well, like your assessment of clay's sexuality by observation, all we can go on is what is presented to us. And maybe you would lie about that, because to tell the truth would perhaps put you in a bad light. That sort of argument can be applied to everything, now that I consider it! :-) If that conversation is no one's business, why even bring it up?

I don't think this is quite the "bomb" you might be expecting to have dropped, because you are not saying anything that Todd Venice wasn't spouting years ago. Yawn.

Anyway, what's wrong with judging someone by their posts? If it is okay to judge people's sexuality from the outside?

I don't lie, and I brought it up to make the point that I don't care if Clay reads my opinions. I haven't said anything that I wouldn't say to his face if he asked me.

Nice post clayzedover..............Hubby wants computer. I know it will break hearts that I leave. But, I'll be back...........

[djs111]

I don't lie, and I brought it up to make the point that I don't care if Clay reads my opinions. I haven't said anything that I wouldn't say to his face if he asked me.

I don't think anyone is all that shocked about what you posted, maybe squicked is all. Nothing new. Todd Venice posited that whole lying thing years ago, when he was pissed because he found out he wouldn't be on Team Clay or regarded as a guru by Clay's fans. But if you can cheerfully posit that Clay lies, than lying might seem ok with you in order to make a point or whatever. Not saying that is true, but why believe anybody then?

Anyway, why would Clay ask or even care what a fan thinks about his sexuality? I am sure he is aware of what kinds of posts there are about him, concerning everything, doubties he would even be faintly surprised, much less shocked.

[Iseeme]

Clayzedover said:

If Jaymes did this at her age, she must have wanted a child very badly.

Yes. This fact seems to be lost in all the other noise. Whoever the father is.....she DID have to want a baby pretty badly. Carrying a child for 9 months can be joyous and fulfilling but it's also alot of work. There are many things I couldn't do at 50 that were very easy for me to do at 20 or even 30. Your body is just not the same. Whatever, however, whoever....Jaymes is actually pretty brave to embark on motherhood at this stage of her life.

I know lots of gay people, too. Have worked with them, for them and they've worked for me. I've partied with them, argued with them, sat in the hospital with one while his partner was dying from AIDs, etc. etc. You can't have worked in San Francisco for 14 years without that type of acquaintance. But.....that does not make me an expert or even an accurate observer. Most gay people look and act like everybody else probably because they ARE just like everybody else in all ways but maybe one or two....it's only the truly swishy ones that make it their focus to let other people know they're gay! And that's purposeful.

[cha cha trusty]

Just a few thoughts based on this morning's comments....

There are two scenarios which make sense to me on the baby issue.

1) Clay and Jaymes are in a committed relationship.

• Because, I don't believe anyone would ask a 50 yr old 'friend' to carry a baby for you.

-or-

2) Clay is not the father, and Jaymes just decided to get PG with someone else's swimmers.

then another possibility rears its head.

IF she wanted a baby, and Clay was available to her, or he volunteered to do it.

but also this would take a huge committment.........

You can't just count back 7 months and say Clay was busy doing this or that.

IF this is Clay's baby, they would have had to plan, the procedures alone would take preparation and time. At any given time in the past year and a half, Clay could have had sperm frozen anywhere in the US or Canada. The procedure may not have 'taken' the first time.

Bottom line, we still don't know if Clay is involved, and if he is, I personally don't believe it has anything to do with his being gay. Which I don't believe he is.

And on that front, Clayzor, I'm sure we'd all love to know in what scenario you felt it was appropriate to talk to Faye about Clay coming out of the closet? Mid-afternoon tea?

[playbiller]

I am sorry, but I have to laugh, I am pretty sure everyone here knows some gay people up close and personal. I worked in NYC for 20 years

I still think that Tyra probably has more exposure to different people who are gay and if there was a mark that anyone can see and judge, she would probably know, but I don't believe there is and she has stated in an interview that Clay wasabsoluely not gay, some people might have missed that.

But enough, I need to do something silly again., I think I will hose off the trailer I am hiding in to save on electricity and then go shopping or something, the sand is too hot to walk on.

[JennaZ]

My guess is that the reactions to the idea that Clay might be having a child with Jaymes through artificial insemination is due, at least partly, to perceptions of what it means for a 29 year-old male to have a child with a 50 year-old woman, outside of marriage and in that particular way.

Some seem to assume it would mean he has chosen not to have a traditional family because (as far as we know), he is not married to Jaymes. Some seem to focus on the artificiality of it, and that it may imply that he does not have sexual relations with women. (That seems to be the tabloid interpretation.) Personally, I don't buy into either assumption.

As I've said before, I don't believe that fathering a child with a woman precludes having a traditional family. First, it's possible that he could have that with Jaymes, despite the age difference. Even if his relationship is purely platonic, I don't think it means that he can never have a relationship with anyone else. This may not be a popular opinion, but I think this child is really more for Jaymes than for Clay. At 50, this may be her last chance to be a mother. He's a young man, with decades of opportunities before him. It is possible for a man to have a happy family, and still maintain a relationship with a child from a former relationship.

I also don't find the idea of conception bizarre for a 50 year-old woman. It sounds as though, scientifically, artificial means really are the best, and perhaps the only way, for a woman of her age to conceive. Even if she and Clay were married, in all likelihood, they would be unlikely to get pregnant through sexual intercourse. Yes, technically, it may be in vitro fertilization (and at 50, it probably was) rather than artificial insemination, but not many people know the difference. I could see how she might have used in vitro, but people around her said it was AI because in their minds, it's the same thing.

I don't believe that Clay would ask a friend to have his baby, especially not at age 50. The health risks alone are huge. I can see Jaymes asking him, or Clay volunteering to donate sperm. The male's contribution to the process is far less taxing. But if all she wanted was a baby, there are many reputable services that provide sperm from anonymous donors. Having a friend father your child creates a whole different set of expectations and legalities. IIT, I think she desperately wanted a baby, but not just with anybody. She wanted it with him.

[wandacleo]

I think the ONLY time a man's sexuality should be in question is when his penis is aimed in a woman's direction.

I have NO patience AT ALL with all this pedestal crap, judgmental crap, and gay crap.

Clay's life is his business.

If people are leaving the fandom because Clay might or might not be a father: GOODBYE and goodriddance!

[jmh123]

Clayzedover said:

If Jaymes did this at her age, she must have wanted a child very badly.

Yes. This fact seems to be lost in all the other noise. Whoever the father is.....she DID have to want a baby pretty badly. Carrying a child for 9 months can be joyous and fulfilling but it's also alot of work. There are many things I couldn't do at 50 that were very easy for me to do at 20 or even 30. Your body is just not the same. Whatever, however, whoever....Jaymes is actually pretty brave to embark on motherhood at this stage of her life.

Not lost to me--it's exactly why I don't buy the suggestion that she is doing this just for him, like a vessel.

Most gay people look and act like everybody else probably because they ARE just like everybody else in all ways but maybe one or two....it's only the truly swishy ones that make it their focus to let other people know they're gay! And that's purposeful.

Amen! And there have been many tests of this. In addition to scientific tests, there was a short running TV show called "gay, straight, or taken" or something like that where women hung out with each man for a period of time before deciding, and I never saw one accurately identify the gay guy.

but also this would take a huge committment.........

You can't just count back 7 months and say Clay was busy doing this or that.

IF this is Clay's baby, they would have had to plan, the procedures alone would take preparation and time. At any given time in the past year and a half, Clay could have had sperm frozen anywhere in the US or Canada. The procedure may not have 'taken' the first time.

No, you can't just count back. But if he were all about having this baby, if she were doing it just for him, I would think he'd want to be around to be supportive during the pregnancy. It could be the timing just sucked and it couldn't be helped, that after however many months or years or trying, it just happened to work right before this hugely busy time in his life, and he felt like his career was too important to cut back just because his baby mama finally got pregnant, or it could be that he is, IIT, at most, a friend helping her out, and happy to take part in the child-raising process, but not the one who is the primary force behind it.

[Gibby]

Clayzor, thanks for the links. I have chosen to believe what Clay has told us - that he's straight. Could he change? Yes. I personally think, from seeing interactions with women, that he's straight, but really, that might be me projecting what I'm expecting to see. Until he starts singing with his penis, though, it's a non-issue for me. I don't even care, one way or another. And I don't expect that he will ever address that question again, nor does he owe it to me to address it. His private life is just that - private.

Gibby, while some people may choose, for awwhile, to live a gay lifestyle for the kinkiness of it, true gay people are born that way. IMHO and knowledge of the subject. They don't just wake up one day and say, "Oh what the heck, I think I'll be an outcast and have a miserable life, and become gay!" I believe Clay is gay and I can understand perfectly well why he has to claim he isn't and stay in the closet.

Clayzor, I think I didn't further expound on my post since I was in a hurry to post before I left for work. And I'm at work stealth posting now! Anyway, what I meant to say is that he could change his public stance about his sexuality.

Regardless, it's really none of my business. It's a private matter. His sexuality, and his babydaddy status IIT don't change the fact that he's a fantastic singer, humanitarian and all-around great person! I'm still his fan, and I'm not going anywhere.

[playbiller]

For something to do on a daily basis - there is voting for On my way here to be added to the VH1 video top 20

here. You have to actually type it in too add it, but Bo's fans got it on the list for several weeks. What ever happened tothe people who voted on TRL all the time?

[muskifest]

I swear, Play is quite the smutter today!

I think I will hose off

[playbiller]

You have a problem with a trailer? Or is this your imitation of the media and it's creative editing?

[Iseeme]

Okay Play, I tried to add OMWH to the list for voting purposes. It will let me add it but when I try to drag it it won't take. What am I doing wrong?