#34: So, how about that Clay Aiken?

[calurker]

Love the typo....hawt....[b]Hmmmm...now that might look good on a shirt.( no name..so that's good,right?)

As for the poster who stated her opinion on Clay's sexality to Clay's mother......I'm dumbfounded.........that I think was just too over the top.Talk about crossing a major line. I can't imagine what would go through my mind if someone spoke to me that way about my son. I can't imagine presuming that you ever had a right to express an opinion like that to his mother.( are you a close relative by any chance????)That blows my mind......I 've been lurking for a long,long time and I don't think I have ever heard of anyone, anywhere else being that insensitve................I may need a stiff drink after that revalation. :glare: Who has the bottle...pass it this way.

[Clayzorback]

Ummm...sheesh. To many things to comment on.

1. Die-hard internet fans are NOT the only ones who think Clay isn't gay! This is a pretty broad statement without evidence to back it up. It's presented as more than just an opinion.

I said generaly speaking. That indicates I was not speaking for everyone.

2. WHY would a 29 year old ask a 50 year old woman to have a baby for him. Why would he be soooo desperate to have a baby that he would do that? It's not like he's going to be sterile in the next 20 years or so. So not sure where this thought came from. IIT I think there is ALOT more to it than Clay's desire to be a father. He could adopt VERY easily. VERY easily if he only wanted to be a father. I'm sorry but this is just one theory that doesn't fly for me. I can see it the other way around - Jaymes' clock is not only ticking slowly but almost ready to stop. She wants to be a mother. She looks around for someone with all the qualities she admires in a man and would love to have in her child. She has a best friend that just happens to fit that template.....etc.etc.

Why in the hell would he want to adopt when he is perfectly virile, and can father his own children? One could also argue, if he isn't gay, that he could wait 20 years, or how ever long it takes. until he found a woman he fell in love with to marry and have children the conventional way.

3. Showing feministic traits or not showing them doesn't mean diddly squat!!!! Unless, of course, you're looking for an excuse to put a label on someone.

4. Saying Clay is lonely because of the songs he sings is like saying he really soils his jeans in real life because of doing it in a part he played. He has said repeatedly that these songs are not necessarily about him but some people keep trying to make OMWH biographical!!! He loves good lyrics. All these songs have good lyrics (IMO) and he has quite easily interpreted them. He sells songs. We know that. He sells them very well. But I don't think that necessarily means they're about him.

I already acknowledged that Clay said that these songs were not necessarily his feelings. I also said that I think he resonates with something in each one or he wouldn't have selected it. I could be wrong on that , but it was an opinion I still hold.

I'm really curious as to why you're so adamant about him being gay! I mean it seems to be a recurring theme.

Bottle - bwaahaha!!!

I'm so adament because I layed awake all last night trying to figure out a way to piss you and djs off...................... I'm not adament about anything. Just expressing something I feel. I have always thought Clay was gay. It is not just this baby thing. I don't think it is a recurring theme with me either. I stated that this is the first time I ever publicly stated that I thought Clay was gay. I have, however, stated many times that it doesn't matter to me if he was. Why are you and others so adament to claim he isn't? You want my proof, where is your proof? That's a rhetorical question. Nobody knows for sure except him, but we are allowed our own opinions on the matter. Why try and sweep it under the rug instead of openly showing love and support for him if he is? Can you not love him unconditionally if he turns out to be gay? What if I'm right? I will apologize to everyone if I'm wrong. Somehow though I don't expect the same courtesy. Move on and let it go.

muski muski musk.........Swallowed it?

[djs111]

I'm so adament because I layed awake all last night trying to figure out a way to piss you and djs off......................

Heeeee........takes a lot more than that to piss me off - I am more WTF?

Why try and sweep it under the rug instead of openly showing love and support for him if he is? Can you not love him unconditionally if he turns out to be gay?

I confess I have no idea what you mean here - no one is "sweeping it under the rug", as far as I can tell, people just don't think he is, so why talk about it? No one is demanding proof, you have been offering proof. And people are saying, um, no, doesn't look like proof to me!

Why is it necessary to declare we would love Clay even if he was gay? I would love him even if he was from Jupiter and smoked illegal Cuban cigars and had a secret swimming pool in his basement because he liked lying to his fans.

The "what if" thing just doesn't seem necessary.

[muskifest]

I may need a stiff

Lord knows you're around the right crowd, calurker! Glad to see a new smutter and WELCOME!

(If you are offended by this post, please PM me and I'll remove it...I'm just kidding about the smut---You're probably not a smutter. I mean, if you ARE it's not a BAD thing in MY book , but if you are NOT, then you might not want me to suggest that you are....

heh. )

[justclay12]

I am okay with what I believe and I don't feel the need to be ashamed or worried what other fans think of me for it.. I have already expressed to his mother, a long time ago, that I love Clay and if he were gay it would make not one bit of difference to me. I don't judge people by that and I am here because I enjoy his talent, and I will always support him in some small way, the best I can.

Clayzorback, I don't have an issue with what you believe, that would be kind of silly, your beliefs are what they are.

I think, by now, most people just don't feel any need to discuss this issue - and to me, none of your "proofs" mean much of anything at all. I guess if you start with the idea that he is gay, it is easy to view things through that filter. Same with the belief he is straight. I don't really care what any other fan believes, I do feel distaste for people asking him about it, putting notes in his pocket, demanding that his possible gayness be discussed. I also think it squicky and hilarious that some fans immediately ship him with any female he comes into contact with, or insist that any women around him MUST be lusting after him, it seems odd, really.

Remarks to Faye - for myself, expressing that you love Clay, to Faye, is one thing, expressing to Faye that you would love Clay even if he was gay is quite another. To me, yeah, of course you seem perfectly willing to say things to his face, that just seems rude and tasteless, not daring or honest or whatever. He has had many people ask or say things to his face on that subject - he finds it rude, I believe that is what he said.

Also just absolutely don't think he would ask a 50 year old woman who has never been able to conceive to have a baby for him. If he just wanted a "vessel" there are many other options, all of which are less dangerous to someone who he has said he loves.

Besides, vessel - boat - water - he wouldn't even GO there, I have been assured! :-)

Song lyrics? He did say that he knew people would try and apply them to him, but it was not really the case - I guess he is conveniently lying about that too?

A few years ago I found an article online somewhere about Lucinda Williams (I love her) - some of her fans were outraged to find out that a lot of her songs did not actually come from personal heartbreak and loss, they were just songs she wrote. Her manager said, hey, that is why she is called an artist, she makes you believe the lyrics. Bridge Over Troubled Water - Paul Simon said it was written for a friend who was distraught over her first grey hairs. But that he was happy that people read so much great message into the lyrics, that is what songs are for.

Not saying you are wrong, just saying what you think of as definitive clues just don't cut it for a lot of people. And a lot of people really don't care either way. You post that you will be piled on and argued with, I don't think that is happening, people just are kinda over the whole thing, at least they seem to be here at FCA.

Just wanted to say that I agree with your whole post, as well as several others on here, and I apologize for not quoting the rest of you. Wanted to quote this because I hadn't heard that about Bridge Over Troubled Water and it cracked me up. Wonder if that will be what Clay will be thinking about now when he sings that song since he is angsting so much about being almost 30. And maybe when he said he liked Invisible, it was actually because he wanted to watch us in our rooms. Well at least some of us, if he wanted to look in my room, he'd need to have his head examined. I wasn't hot in my 20's, and the only time I'm hot now is because of hormones.

[Iseeme]

Well sorry dear - you haven't pissed me off. Squicked me off - most definitely. As for this:

You want my proof, where is your proof?

My proof is from Clay. I think I just trumped your proof! Unless he is lying about everything. If his being gay isn't important to you than why is it always coming up in your posts????

And I think the definition of sterile is: incapable of producing others of its kind; barren

So I SINCERELY hope this was just a typo:

Why in the hell would he want to adopt when he is perfectly sterile, and can father his own children

I don't want to spat with you Clayzor - believe it or not. I just have an abiding dislike for gross generalizations and rows to hoe! I prefer to take Clay at his word. Honestly I do believe he is the best source for anything that has to do with him.

And now I am well and truly done with this topic.

[ivy]

There are lots of gays that don't show their feminism, just as there are lots of them that do. Clay shows a tremendous amount of feminine qualities. He has stated so himself. If he didn't then there wouldn't be all this speculation from everyone except his die-hard internet fans. They (generally speaking) are the only ones who don't think he is. I don't make up all this perception.

OMG. That old fooldar will get you every time. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. All men have feminist qualities. Just look at them. None of them match those big muscled guys, whom I find icky anyway. This is a hoot and a half.

Iseeme

Well sorry dear - you haven't pissed me off. Squicked me off - most definitely.

[Couch Tomato]

Gotta thank everyone who has contributed to this conversation today. I agree with a lot, disagree with some, and love that so much funny was brought. Clayzor you have had an ah ha he's gay moment. That's fine. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it if you feel you can no longer give Clay the benefit of the doubt. However, although we don't have twenty pages of rules, it's pretty common knowledge we're one of those "take Clay at his word" boards. I'm not stopping convo but that needs to be recognized and remembered and reconciled with your new beliefs. When the day comes that Clay verifies your opinion of him, then that will open up a new conversation. People here definitely don't have to defend believing what Clay has stated more than once. This is not in green, red, yellow, or puple but I'm going to assume that everyone here gets my drift.

[KAndre]

KAndre eyes couchie's post and breaks out the brown, orange, fuschia and teal!

OMG, it's the paisley nightmare from the Solo Tour!

[muskifest]

Speaking of a stiff one, Couchie....when's our next :bier: ? Carrie has two softball games in town Wednesday night....

[djs111]

Justclay12 said:

Wanted to quote this because I hadn't heard that about Bridge Over Troubled Water and it cracked me up.

Paul Simon also said that "You Can Call Me Al", or whatever the song is titled, was written after a famous author (I am guessing Norman Mailer) showed up drunk as a skunk to a dinner party Simon and his then-wife Carrie Fisher gave, in NYC.

The guy called them Betty and Al all night, they thought it was a hoot.

Simon's Graceland album, to me, is one of the bestest albums evah!

[Clayzorback]

I've been trying to move on couchie, but if you look above your post you will see that it is others who keep the topic going. I've tried to move on to the lyrics of his songs. I am not calling Clay a liar. Never have. I stated that if he is gay I could understand why he has to stay in the closet and deny it. That is not the same thing as calling him a liar. It also isn't a new found revelation for me. Ask any of my friends how I have felt about his sexuality and they'll back me up. Even disagree with me. I get your drift............. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[jmh123]

Oh for Pete's sake.

[liney23]

Learning to Sing, at 256 pages in paperback, doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of one Clay Aiken. It's a small, limited glimpse in a small, limited portion of his life put out for a specific purpose. With lots of white space. All the M&Gs, all the dedications, all the interviews don't really say who is Clay Aiken. My girl, 00lsee was totally right this weekend - we are alone in our skin. Little bits of us interact with little bits of others, but hell, you can be surprised every day by a child who you brought up. By someone you've been married to for 20 years. By yourself.

KAndre.... Totally agree with my bolded parts!!! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Totally OT, but I listen to one of the music channels on my TV cable service. They're playing "Blowin Kisses In The Wind" by Paula Abdul and it is HORRIBLE. She sounds like she's singing through her nose with a really high voice. It's really bad.

Iseeme... dang... that means it will be a big hit.

Dang it, Couchie... I had this long wonderfully written post and your post just made me delete 3/4ths of it... Kay...movin' on!

I had a total shocker this weekend... went to the family b'day party yesterday and my DIL said not one word about Clay. I had rehearsed all kinds of answers and didn't need one of them. Niiiice!!!

Oh for Pete's sake.

jmh.... WORD!!! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[Kareneh]

I'm confused...

So, should I scratch "Nice hose, dude!" off the list of appropriate things to scream at Clay when he's on-stage / in the bus line / at another stage door or not?

Let's see, bottle...I'm thinking maybe you could get away with it in the bus line, but I'd steer away from saying anything while he's on stage. You might affect the appearance/disappearance of said hose and then you'd have ME to answer to.

Oh, I think she could save it for an appropriate time.......like when he lifts up his pant legs to show us his socks.

Justclay12 said:

Wanted to quote this because I hadn't heard that about Bridge Over Troubled Water and it cracked me up.

Paul Simon also said that "You Can Call Me Al", or whatever the song is titled, was written after a famous author (I am guessing Norman Mailer) showed up drunk as a skunk to a dinner party Simon and his then-wife Carrie Fisher gave, in NYC.

The guy called them Betty and Al all night, they thought it was a hoot.

Simon's Graceland album, to me, is one of the bestest albums evah!

And I seem to remember that "Mother & Child Reunion" is the name of a Chinese food dish.....just some more food for thought.

[Iseeme]

Oh, I think she could save it for an appropriate time.......like when he lifts up his pant legs to show us his socks.

OMG

[Couch Tomato]

I've been trying to move on couchie, but if you look above your post you will see that it is others who keep the topic going. I've tried to move on to the lyrics of his songs. I am not calling Clay a liar. Never have. I stated that if he is gay I could understand why he has to stay in the closet and deny it. That is not the same thing as calling him a liar. It also isn't a new found revelation for me. Ask any of my friends how I have felt about his sexuality and they'll back me up. Even disagree with me. I get your drift............. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

That's not what you said but that is neither here nor there. A message board means that people will respond to what you write and saying something and then expecting the convo to just end cuz you've had your say isn't really the way things work.

Liney I wasn't trying to cut off conversation and you can feel free to say whatever you want. I've enjoyed everything so far - however, we won't be going in the direction of people who take Clay at his word having to defend that position, which is what's you're doing clayzor when you say they have no proof, that they are sweeping things under the rug and that it's only generally <insert delusional> internet fans that believe he's straight anyway.

[muskifest]

Oh, I think she could save it for an appropriate time.......like when he lifts up his pant legs to show us his socks.

OMG

BWAH~ Omg...what a riot that would be! I bet Clay would guffaw! He pulls up his pants legs and someone yells, "Nice HOSE, dude!"

:lmaosmiley-1:

I am SOOOOO not getting work done today.

[merryclay]

clazorback said--

QUOTE

I am okay with what I believe and I don't feel the need to be ashamed or worried what other fans think of me for it.. I have already expressed to his mother, a long time ago, that I love Clay and if he were gay it would make not one bit of difference to me. I don't judge people by that and I am here because I enjoy his talent, and I will always support him in some small way, the best I can.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

merryclay

Poor Faye-- It seems she gets all these people that are trying to "help". She a pretty sharp , smart woman and I would imagine she knows her son pretty well and would wonder why you felt it necessary to run that by her. I doubt she needs our imput on much.

In fact, if she read all these posts, IMO, she'd roll her eyes. We have Clay's word. that's my opinion.

[Lotus]

ivy

All men have feminist qualities.

Oh I wish.

[canfly172]

Morning all!

I just wanna smack some people upside the head. So, if they believe he's the daddy, so what? Is that something so horrible? That somehow in their minds negates anything else he's done and makes him a bad person or what?

Yeah, that!

Nice day here, and I'm going to try and stay off the other boards, because I pretty much agree with all the rants here overnight. Just trying not to go there anymore, I get too pissed off. I think many people have assumed that Faye's comment about exciting news was about the baby, when that may well NOT have been the case. And I'd rather look forward in anticipation, or backwards at wonderful memories, than dwell on angst that has no reason or basis in fact. So, here's to tour news, or career news, and great clack.

I think that I've managed to not get too pissed off because I HAVEN'T gone to any other boards (where I heard it was nasty). I've stuck with here and the Shed cuz despite some differing opinions, people have been able to remain, after a couple of bumps, for the most part respectful of each other and respectful of Clay on both boards.

I really hope that what Faye was referencing is gonna be something cool for his career! I shall remain optimistic!

Re: tour news. We got "fall" from Jerome and possibly fall from Clay....or something to that effect. We usually don't get an official announcement until we already have a smattering of dates. So, here's to the first confirmation of a fall concert! (may TPTB deem to arrange some within driving distance on a Saturday!)

Just read some more and read some emails. Honestly, I'm having a REAL problem with people saying Clay has deceived them, misrepresented himself, etc. The "I'll only listen to his CDs - don't care about the man anymore"

I really and truly don't get this mentality.

HOW, do they feel that he deceived them?

Tell them to go watch some Unicef footage.

Tell them to go watch song Long Island NAJNT footage.

We may not know everything that there is to know about Clay Aiken but just looking at those 2 things should tell them what kinda of man he is.

I probably have selective memory... what parts of these clips should I be watching and what would they tell me about "what kind of man he is"? MHO about the people saying that he "deceived them and misrepresented himself" is that they took certain experiences and memories, read out of them what they needed, projected even more stuff they needed on him, and expected him to spend the rest of his life continuing to fit the image they built in their heads. Everyone has their own private 'Fake Clay', though very few have attempted to communicate via text messages.

Me was just talking in generalities. Any of the Unicef footage makes me proud of him and the fact that he sat there and gutted it through the LI show (I do have the right one, yes?) despite having to hold onto the chair for dear life and likely despite wanting to hurl. He did that because he knows how many people travel from great distances to see him. Any other performer would have cancelled.

BTW, I was at the performance Easter weekend that got "cancelled" cuz of his hip and then uncancelled. I'm convinced that he went against orders and said "Hell, no. I'm going on". I was front row and during the "God" scene, when they are all down on their knees, he stayed down way longer than normal and I could see his fingers kind of drumming/trembling on the stage. I'm convinced that he really was in pain. I was worried for a minute that one of them would have to help him up but he got up on his own and nobody who wasn't right up front would have been the wiser and while he didn't kick as high as normal, he sure "soldiered" through.

It gave me the same feeling that the LI clack did. I got almost teary eyed and shmoopy.

I just get pissed hearing about fans who are disowning him cuz they think that...oh whatever they think that I'm not wrapping my brain around.

Oh, and the hat thing in LI wasn't real. I just put that in, fameho that I am. Just kidding. All I really did was delete the part where after asking for my name, he also asked for my phone number.

Sure. Uh, huh. Right.

I only know what he chose to tell us about his personal life and the rest of it , I just don't care. Some fans were shocked when he joked about his charitable efforts.

Eh? Huh? OK, I just don't wanna know.

All I can say with certainty is that he really cares.

True dat.

Some want to be peeking in his bedroom window

If I was Invisible...

I guess I'll stay a Clay fan as imperfect as he is just because I'm imperfect too and he sings so good.

There ya go...and he ain't half bad to look at either.

ITA with this. I've tried my best to stay away from commenting on the "Clay that I thought I knew" stuff because, IMO, we ALL have an idea of Clay, it's just different for each and every individual. One of the things that I believe about being a Clay fan is that every single one of us has put Clay on a pedestal of some type -- to me, that's simply part of being a fan of his. Fans read things about him, or listen to interviews with him, and that gives some building blocks for that pedestal, based on our own experiences. It's just that some had the pedestal built really high, while others had the pedestal pretty short -- probably short enough that Clay could step off it without hurting himself that much. What many of us discovered these past few weeks was how high the pedestal was for each one of us, and how that differed from other people's perceptions.

I built mine really high but with lotza steps and with a slide and a couple of treevines an elevator.

Hey -- I now know what OPP stands for! *g*

Other than Ontario Provincial Police? It means the guys that pull me over from time to time cuz I drives too fast.

Many may feel that Clay fell off of pedestal

Nah. They out and out shoved him off will both hands.

but my reaction is about the fans and my expectations, and the fandom fell hard this week. I don't often rely on others outside of my family but this is one of the times I let my guard down and expected something more/better from others that did not materialize. I think I read too many posts over the years that said, I will always love him no matter what but the tabloids knocked us down with glee with only one little kick.

That's sad. I guess that I'm not feeling that cuz I'm livin' in my little sheltered world but I'm not likin' what I'm hearin' has been said elsewhere.

We're not faithful. In my eyes, we failed a test.

We who?

I am trying to understand certain reactions, but am finding that I have a very low tolerance for intolerance and feel like I really don't know this fandom.

I gotta ask...what percentage of the fandom in general do you think are all "disappointed" in him (for something that isn't a bad thing in the first place and may not even be true in the second place). Is it really that bad out there. I don't wanna know do I?

This feeling has been strengthened by reading posts that pretty much are saying he should have thought of the fans and his career - with lists, in case he needed more guidance - before he dared to have a child or form a relationship. WTF?

Are you freakin' kidding me? Seriously?

:fssign:

Until he starts singing with his penis, though, it's a non-issue for me.

Excuse me while I go get the Windex to clean my screen off.

OMG - coffee spewed all over the keyboard! That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. I wish we could consider it for a thread title but I guess it would not be too kosher for those accessing FCA from work.

It would be perfect though, lol.

It may occasionally annoy me or lift me up, but all in all, it's just a little lagniappe.

A little what? You gonna make me google that? You're gonna make me google that arentcha?

QUOTE

I never expected Clay to ever give us a "heads up"

Well, I didn't either at first...but the video playbacks over the last five years do NOT lie, so I know not ALL of those heads up appearances can't be a fold!

Once a smutter, always a smutter, lol.

:PickMe-1:

OK...moving on to page...er 60.

[Clayzorback]

I've been trying to move on couchie, but if you look above your post you will see that it is others who keep the topic going. I've tried to move on to the lyrics of his songs. I am not calling Clay a liar. Never have. I stated that if he is gay I could understand why he has to stay in the closet and deny it. That is not the same thing as calling him a liar. It also isn't a new found revelation for me. Ask any of my friends how I have felt about his sexuality and they'll back me up. Even disagree with me. I get your drift............. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

That's not what you said but that is neither here nor there. A message board means that people will respond to what you write and saying something and then expecting the convo to just end cuz you've had your say isn't really the way things work.

Liney I wasn't trying to cut off conversation and you can feel free to say whatever you want. I've enjoyed everything so far - however, we won't be going in the direction of people who take Clay at his word having to defend that position, which is what's you're doing clayzor when you say they have no proof, that they are sweeping things under the rug and that it's only generally <insert delusional> internet fans that believe he's straight anyway.

I had to go back to see exactly what I said.:

Gibby, while some people may choose, for awhile, to live a gay lifestyle for the kinkiness of it, true gay people are born that way. IMHO and knowledge of the subject. They don't just wake up one day and say, "Oh what the heck, I think I'll be an outcast and have a miserable life, and become gay!" I believe Clay is gay and I can understand perfectly well why he has to claim he isn't and stay in the closet. I think with this baby business he is taking one step out of the closet. If he is not gay then I will be the first to tell him to pull down his pants so I can apologize and kiss his lily white ass.

Okay you're right. I didn't say if he was, I stated I believe he is. At any rate, I misunderstood your post. I thought you were asking us to move on and stop discussing that Clay might be gay, because this board doesn't hold that view. I don't care if eveyone wants to come and pummel me about what I believe. I'm just going to consider the source and ignore it. To my knowledge I have never posted that I have proof he is gay. IO believe I was accused of posting proof here that he was and I was responding to that. Asking them where their proof is. I happen to believe that Clay is capable of fibbing or saying what he has to say for certain things. That's not a judgement of him. I think he is human and normal like all of the rest of us. Not pure in everything he says and does. I believe most everything I say is always, or most of the time, precluded with an IMHO, and not meant to be presented as facts..

I say poor Clay merryclay. He has all the fans that think they are helping him by some of the things they do. Too bad they can't see themselves in the mirror. If Faye is reading my posts, she will see that I love her son irregardless of his sexuality and irregardless if she is going to be a grandma or not. Perhaps I should turn her on to some of some other's post, on some other unamed board. Oh wait, she is already aware of that and does not approve. So have a good evening everyone. Waves at all the Chexmates.............

[KAndre]

Ah, canfly, mon chere chérie, a lagniappe is a little something extra, a little present, a little sweet...the chef winking at ya as he gives you the good dessert (and you wink back)...

Eh, I don't have to add "buts" to things I love...and irregardless (regardless? whichever) is just another way of saying "but" or "even though"...

[luckiest1]

[ivy]

Let's see, I belong to CH, CV, ChP, and FCA. I once belonged to BOI, IdolForums, Fort, TTC. Todd's first board, and Heartsomething or other. Trying to join CB never worked out (some registration issue with ezboard). Never wanted to belong to the OFCB.

What does that make me a MongrelMate? Now I think I sound like a 7 year old trying to make a joke.

Will stop now. The above struck my funny bone.