#41: Clay Aiken Makes His Triumphant Return!

[Couch Tomato]

oh damn I missed it...what you watching Jamar! heee.

[luckiest1]

Have I told you guys lately that I love you? :F_05BL17blowkiss:

BWAH, jamar!

O/T: If you get the notification for the new Vista Service Pack 1 install, do it when you go to bed. Seriously, it takes for-fucking-ever to finish. Excuse my French.

Currently, I am burning off DCAT clack for safe keeping, to make some space for the new stage door clack and any other surprises Clay might have up his sleeve for us during this Spamalot run.

I may be gay, but anyways.

[merryclay]

I'm coming out, world!!!! and OFC, of course. The funniest thing I read, yesterday was that being gay was the least of Clay's problems with that hair on Paula's. Heee!! I thought his hair was fine, but the post just hit me funny.

[keepingfaith]

Totally on board with you wanda. And they are extrapolating his one 'lie' - the one he told for self-preservation - until somehow everything else he's done is questioned. HE DOES NOT DESERVE THAT. He's proven himself over and over and over again. If I read 'oh but if he lied about this...' one more time, I may hurt somebody.

Oh, please, let me help you.

I SO HOPE Clay starts dating publicly (probably won't happen). It would do my heart good to see some of these people just crap themselve.

Me too. But I have a feeling that Clay will remain private with his life. He said people don't want this stuff in their faces, or something like that, and I think Clay himself prefers to keep his life private, and not because he's hiding but because he's a private person. Nobody knew much about Paul Newman's private life, because he was a private man. I saw an interview replayed with Paul Newman last night and the interviewer asked him why he believed his marriage had been so successful, and Paul said that he wasn't comfortable talking about his marriage in interviews. Period. Wouldn't do it. Of course, if Clay is in a relationship, I'd love to see them out to dinner, at a premiere, etc.

Damn, 5 shows for me last april and may and I couldn't get near the stage door thanks to a bunch of blue haired old ladies and now I have to fight off some big ass men? This sucks!

You just crack me up. I'll fight 'em with you!

Now that just sucks! It's fine for her to believe what she wants to believe and leave the fandom if that's what her conscience dictates. It's not fine for her to keep stating it over and over again. It's like she's trying to force someone to believe her beliefs. That's where I lose patience and sympathy, too.

See it all comes back to the me, me, me syndrome. I've said my piece, bye bye, oh but wait I really have to tell you more about how I feel, bye bye, oh just one more thing about me and then I really am outta here! Oh but..........

Go already! I'm sorry but I'm running short on sympathy for those people. If what he is is so abhorrent to you then why are you sticking around? It's sure as heck not to work it out because you have already said you can't tolerate it. Leave room for those that are struggling and coming to terms with it.

Man, I never had any sympathy for pseudo-religious hate, and as far as my own religion goes, I'll be praying those stupid bitches leave for good. I understand everyone has a right to vent and blow, but I have as much sympathy for a religious bigot as for any other kind -- nada. I remember when the courts ruled that the American Nazi Party had a constitutional right to march through a Jewish neighborhood. They had the right to march, but no right to sympathy or respect from anyone. I find bigots to be frightening people, and I'm related to some, and most of them are multi-facted bigots, they don't hate just one thing, one group, one ideology, they hate a lot. I try to talk to myself and tell me that it's all ignorance and if you don't engage the ignorant they'll never learn, but that's just not my calling so I leave that to others gifted in such "outreach."

It made me physically ill reading slop at OFC. Okay, I already have bronchitis, but this made it worse! I quit reading yesterday morning because although I like a good back and forth, I know the difference in swimming with sharks and drowning in bile.

And, I realize I don't fit into the discussion anywhere. I haven't had this long period of investment in "straight Clay" because by the time I got here, there was a raging controversy in some quarters and I quickly established in my mind that it was a ridiculous battle between people who were too damn interested in somebody else's personal sex life. When Clay said people will believe what they want, I chose to believe that he was straight without being invested in believing it, because I realized he wasn't committing himself to any point of view. That was indeed obvious to me. I didn't need one thing or the other to be true to be a fan; it was always immaterial for me. Now I'm just happy to my soul that Clay doesn't have to hide, mince words, walk a tightrope, and all those things that people shouldn't have to do in life.

He's a hot patootie to me. Always has been and I'm sure he always will be. He wouldn't be the first gay guy I was hot for so I'm not embarrassed to lust after him one little bit. I would throw that skinny ass down! And I'm proud to admire the stuffings out of this man who is ever wise, gorgeous, generous, thoughtful, caring, funny, clever, charming, entertaining, fascinating, magical and mega-talented. He's just the incredible Clay that I love!

[wandacleo]

Totally on board with you wanda. And they are extrapolating his one 'lie' - the one he told for self-preservation - until somehow everything else he's done is questioned. HE DOES NOT DESERVE THAT. He's proven himself over and over and over again. If I read 'oh but if he lied about this...' one more time, I may hurt somebody.

Oh, please, let me help you.

I SO HOPE Clay starts dating publicly (probably won't happen). It would do my heart good to see some of these people just crap themselve.

Me too. But I have a feeling that Clay will remain private with his life. He said people don't want this stuff in their faces, or something like that, and I think Clay himself prefers to keep his life private, and not because he's hiding but because he's a private person. Nobody knew much about Paul Newman's private life, because he was a private man. I saw an interview replayed with Paul Newman last night and the interviewer asked him why he believed his marriage had been so successful, and Paul said that he wasn't comfortable talking about his marriage in interviews. Period. Wouldn't do it. Of course, if Clay is in a relationship, I'd love to see them out to dinner, at a premiere, etc.

Damn, 5 shows for me last april and may and I couldn't get near the stage door thanks to a bunch of blue haired old ladies and now I have to fight off some big ass men? This sucks!

You just crack me up. I'll fight 'em with you!

Now that just sucks! It's fine for her to believe what she wants to believe and leave the fandom if that's what her conscience dictates. It's not fine for her to keep stating it over and over again. It's like she's trying to force someone to believe her beliefs. That's where I lose patience and sympathy, too.

See it all comes back to the me, me, me syndrome. I've said my piece, bye bye, oh but wait I really have to tell you more about how I feel, bye bye, oh just one more thing about me and then I really am outta here! Oh but..........

Go already! I'm sorry but I'm running short on sympathy for those people. If what he is is so abhorrent to you then why are you sticking around? It's sure as heck not to work it out because you have already said you can't tolerate it. Leave room for those that are struggling and coming to terms with it.

Man, I never had any sympathy for pseudo-religious hate, and as far as my own religion goes, I'll be praying those stupid bitches leave for good. I understand everyone has a right to vent and blow, but I have as much sympathy for a religious bigot as for any other kind -- nada. I remember when the courts ruled that the American Nazi Party had a constitutional right to march through a Jewish neighborhood. They had the right to march, but no right to sympathy or respect from anyone. I find bigots to be frightening people, and I'm related to some, and most of them are multi-facted bigots, they don't hate just one thing, one group, one ideology, they hate a lot. I try to talk to myself and tell me that it's all ignorance and if you don't engage the ignorant they'll never learn, but that's just not my calling so I leave that to others gifted in such "outreach."

It made me physically ill reading slop at OFC. Okay, I already have bronchitis, but this made it worse! I quit reading yesterday morning because although I like a good back and forth, I know the difference in swimming with sharks and drowning in bile.

And, I realize I don't fit into the discussion anywhere. I haven't had this long period of investment in "straight Clay" because by the time I got here, there was a raging controversy in some quarters and I quickly established in my mind that it was a ridiculous battle between people who were too damn interested in somebody else's personal sex life. When Clay said people will believe what they want, I chose to believe that he was straight without being invested in believing it, because I realized he wasn't committing himself to any point of view. That was indeed obvious to me. I didn't need one thing or the other to be true to be a fan; it was always immaterial for me. Now I'm just happy to my soul that Clay doesn't have to hide, mince words, walk a tightrope, and all those things that people shouldn't have to do in life.

He's a hot patootie to me. Always has been and I'm sure he always will be. He wouldn't be the first gay guy I was hot for so I'm not embarrassed to lust after him one little bit. I would throw that skinny ass down! And I proud to admire the stuffings out of this man who is ever wise, gorgeous, generous, thoughtful, caring, funny, clever, charming, entertaining, fascinating, magical and mega-talented. He's just the incredible Clay that I love!

AMEN

[Couch Tomato]

I agree. I don't think Clay will flaunt any relationships or use it for publicity but I think he will now feel free to go out to restaurants or be seen in public with his partner whenever he gets one. And I don't think there is anything wrong with that. There are reasons that we now understand why we haven't seen that before now. Isn't it wonderful. I think we're about to get to know this man all over again - the real him. Can't wait.

And this fandom is going to be rocked every time he takes some new step. So everybody sitting back waiting for Clay to "take that back" better realize that one of these days they're gonna see him in a relationship with a man. I hope Clay being gay isn't some abstract concept to them.

Loved your whole post Keeping Faith.

[muskifest]

Some time back, soon after 'the news' hit, I posted from an email I'd sent to a gay colleague. He's the hottie that makes me think of a Clay who works out. heh. He grew up a MORMON! so you can imagine what coming out was for him! Been with his partner now for 16 years, has an 8-year-old biological daughter via AI with a friend and I love the guy and quite often lust after him, too! Anyhoo...this was my email to him and his reply:

Subject: thinking of you (what I sent to him)

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20228488,00.html

I couldn't help but think about you when this news "came out"

(heh)....You know, hubby told me once recently that Alex asked him, "Why

is Mom in such denial that Clay is gay?" My response to that was that as

long as Clay is publicly self-identifying as straight or more recently

refusing to talk about it at all in interviews, then I'm supporting him

as such. When/if he decides to publicly self identify as gay, I'm

supporting him as such. I've never understood questions like, "Will you

still be a fan if he's gay?"

Well, I'm sitting here at this god-awful hour of the morning thinking

about what a hell his life must've been since American Idol. YOU know

what it is to come out as a private citizen--imagine if you were being

constantly dissected and judged by the media, worried not only about how

your family and friends would 'take it', but also how a huge group of

strangers---his fans---would react. The ignorant, cruel things that

people say behind your back or even to your face in private life become

the topic of radio, television and print vultures who treat such a

personal struggle as a joke. For a celebrity the fear of rejection,

losing the love and support of family or friends from a disapproving

environment (Mormon or Southern Baptist, take your pick!) is magnified

exponentially when 'the public' decides that your private life is

rightfully theirs to judge.

I'm looking forward to watching the two-part interview he taped with

Diane Sawyer that will be shown Thursday and Friday morning on GMA. I've

always admired the man he is: I still know he's an amazing entertainer

and his voice reaches me like no other. None of that is any different.

Now he's a father and he's bared his soul to his son and to the world

and I'm even more proud of him---of the man he is.

And I still think he's hot!

His reply:

Wow. This must be pretty big news in the Clay community. I always

thought that if he were gay that he wouldn't come out ... just too hard

and too much publicity and attention as you describe. Good for him

though - as an out gay man I know that it makes a difference when people

come out. It humanizes the individual and helps the larger society gain

understanding and acceptance because it's harder to discriminate against

someone when they're nameless and faceless.

In any event, I wish Clay well.

Then, today at Carrie's softball game, two friends who of course know of my...er....affection for Clay and I talked about everything. One waited for me to bring it up---I said, "So....what do you think of my titanium-balled boyfriend?" She was great...she said that her daughter (Carrie's friend and teammate) had even talked about it this morning before the game. Her daughter said, "Him being gay won't make her not like his music, though, right? I mean...not her!" My friend told me she was soooo glad I was the one who brought it up. For her, the 'news' couldn't have been real news to anyone but someone who thought she might have had a real chance with him! BWAH!

Another parent came up and said, "I thought of you when I heard Clay's news. I think it's great what he's doing. Looks like he's deciding for himself what his life will be."

Then I asked another parent---a gay woman who is a co-mom with her partner of one of the girls on the team (adopted). This woman said she didn't really follow Clay, knew who he was, of course, and of his coming out. But I loved this: She said, "What he said was the reason he decided to come out---that he had a son that he wanted to raise in honesty and in an environment in which he would feel totally secure in being himself, regardless---THAT tells me all I need to know about Clay Aiken."

Exactly. Clay has more integrity and courage than 99% of the people I've ever known or known of. And I'm not talking in hyperbole, either.

[cindilu2]

Exactly. Clay has more integrity and courage than 99% of the people I've ever known or known of. And I'm not talking in hyperbole, either.

Oh yes he does - for me too. I think that's what's really making me angry when I read all the posts about 'The Lie'. Not the original one - but that he said he tried not ever to lie about it. There is a post on the Clayboard in nice color coded columns pointing out every time he 'lied' over the last five years. Good god - who could stand up to that kind of scrutiny??? And then to beat him up and vilify him for it? I'm sorry - it makes me want to vomit. What part of HE TRIED is hard to understand. Most of the examples they list were moments when he either had to lie, tell the interviewer to fuck off, or come out. The rest are things OTHER people said or wrote, but he didn't correct or stop them - all part of HIS lies that he has to apologize for. FFFFFFFFFFFFUCK. I want to hurt somebody.

[wandacleo]

I just cannot stand the religious tracts outlining how homosexuality is a sin and how Clay can remain celibate. I feel like screaming, "ARE YOU FUCKING NUTS?????" Why in the hell do they think that Clay would say the actual words "gay" and "homosexual" unless he planned to act accordingly. He even said he might find someone. Talk about delusional.

I'm dead sure that stupidity is a bigger sin than homosexuality.

[djs111]

Oh yes he does - for me too. I think that's what's really making me angry when I read all the posts about 'The Lie'. Not the original one - but that he said he tried not ever to lie about it. There is a post on the Clayboard in nice color coded columns pointing out every time he 'lied' over the last five years. Good god - who could stand up to that kind of scrutiny??? And then to beat him up and vilify him for it? I'm sorry - it makes me want to vomit. What part of HE TRIED is hard to understand. Most of the examples they list were moments when he either had to lie, tell the interviewer to fuck off, or come out. The rest are things OTHER people said or wrote, but he didn't correct or stop them - all part of HIS lies that he has to apologize for. FFFFFFFFFFFFUCK. I want to hurt somebody.

Oh fuck - what a bunch of weird misguided idiots. Can people who feel compelled to try and prove he is a liar - about something that damn well deserves a lie if one is asked - can they just go? Because I felt sympathy before, but I honestly see no point to this. None.

Here's the thing - what do people want to happen? Do they think they can convince all the other fans he is a liar, even if other fans have said they don't look at events - which are damn right well none of their business - with that POV or filter or whatever - do they want everyone to feel the way they do? Because really, if someone is convinced he is just a liar, then where do they go from there?

Talk to me until you are blue in the face - but I think whatever has to be said or done to avoid others making such a personal decision for one is the right thing to do. Unless he was marrying someone under false pretenses, there is no crime committed. And some are acting like he committed a crime.

It is boggling, thank goodness for FCA and squid and toilets.

[cindilu2]

Oh yes he does - for me too. I think that's what's really making me angry when I read all the posts about 'The Lie'. Not the original one - but that he said he tried not ever to lie about it. There is a post on the Clayboard in nice color coded columns pointing out every time he 'lied' over the last five years. Good god - who could stand up to that kind of scrutiny??? And then to beat him up and vilify him for it? I'm sorry - it makes me want to vomit. What part of HE TRIED is hard to understand. Most of the examples they list were moments when he either had to lie, tell the interviewer to fuck off, or come out. The rest are things OTHER people said or wrote, but he didn't correct or stop them - all part of HIS lies that he has to apologize for. FFFFFFFFFFFFUCK. I want to hurt somebody.

Oh fuck - what a bunch of weird misguided idiots. Can people who feel compelled to try and prove he is a liar - about something that damn well deserves a lie if one is asked - can they just go? Because I felt sympathy before, but I honestly see no point to this. None.

Oh, I forgot - telling Mary from Cary 'I think I'm in love' and dancing with female fans - all ploys to prove his 'straightness' - thus all lies.

I can not make this shit up.

[luckiest1]

At this point, I've moved on.......I can't wallow in those threads anymore, and I've already said all I can say anyways. My point of view is hardly welcome there. I feel for anyone who is struggling here at FCA, or anyone I know personally, and hope they can get past all this and get back to what it's really all about - the fun and the joy. Tonight I've been watching the Pala DCAT and laughing my ass off at the whole Flat Clay banter, etc. Lots of fun to be had for anyone who wants it.

[djs111]

Hey, I saw Thom Filicia hugging women on Dress My Nest - does this mean he is a liar about being gay? Does this mean he is straight? Do you think he lied to get onto Queer Eye?

OMG!!!!!

[Lotus]

On this morning's news I heard

"Vancouver police say they are treating an attack in the city's West End on Saturday as a hate crime, after a 27-year-old man was struck in the face while walking hand in hand with another man."

It made me feel sick that this is still happening and in a city where there is a very large community of GLT people, where gay marriage is legal, where beating up someone because they are a minority can be treated as a hate crime with stiffer penalties.

How can anyone think that someone would choose to be gay?

When my daughter came out to me at age 18 after she had left home for university my immediate concern was for her safety. In 1986 homophobia was very evident, especially with all the fear of Aids. Happily, now she is married to her wonderful wife and has 2 darling daughters.

It makes me sick all those so called Christians over at OFC "struggling" with the revelation that Clay is gay. They are not struggling they are just spouting their form of homophobia that they justify as being what God has told them over and over ad nauseum. A vengeful, punitive Old Testament God, not the loving Jesus of the New Testament who never said anything about homosexuality.

Damn my blood pressure is up but I just needed to vent and I appreciate being able to do that here.

[wandacleo]

My favorite thing is that they keep insisting they can't understand why people say they are homophobic when they are just saying what the Bible says.

[trophywife]

Exactly. Clay has more integrity and courage than 99% of the people I've ever known or known of. And I'm not talking in hyperbole, either.

Oh yes he does - for me too. I think that's what's really making me angry when I read all the posts about 'The Lie'. Not the original one - but that he said he tried not ever to lie about it. There is a post on the Clayboard in nice color coded columns pointing out every time he 'lied' over the last five years. Good god - who could stand up to that kind of scrutiny??? And then to beat him up and vilify him for it? I'm sorry - it makes me want to vomit. What part of HE TRIED is hard to understand. Most of the examples they list were moments when he either had to lie, tell the interviewer to fuck off, or come out. The rest are things OTHER people said or wrote, but he didn't correct or stop them - all part of HIS lies that he has to apologize for. FFFFFFFFFFFFUCK. I want to hurt somebody.

I think I read that same post at the OFC. If Clay lied from time to time? Big deal. I don't care if he did but I wonder if during college and the AI years Clay was attracted to men but never pursued it, therefore he never saw himself as a gay man but one who might be just confused. Enough time has passed where he has accepted himself for who he is (calling himself a gay man so matter of fact in his GMA interview was both surreal and a little hot) so now he refers to himself as a gay man but maybe during that time frame, in the moment, especially during the RS question, he truly felt he really wasn't. Sorry to ramble and I'm not trying to make excuses for him but I could see where he thought he wasn't being misleading.

As for the other interviews I could see if Clay brought up the subject but he didn't. Faced with the questions and not out to his family what choice did he really have? Plus early on he always said he could go back to teaching if his pop career failed. Without establishing himself first I would think being an openly gay teacher in the south would have been a real obstacle towards getting work. Please, please correct me if I am wrong, I hate to stereotype but I would imagine a few parents would be very troubled by it.

ETA: I just want to clarify that I don't think Clay owes anyone an explanation, nevermind an apology. I just don't get the anger or how one can not even try to walk in his shoes and come to the understanding that he dealt with this the best way he knew how. After seeing all the nit-picking I understand why Clay doesn't blog that often.

There are many, many people in the entertainment industry who are never that brave. They hide behind their fake wives and girlfriends and live lies. I'm so very thankful that Clay doesn't have to do that.

Amen! That's why I don't get the anger with the whole lying business or actually the cruel way Clay was treated by the media and entertainment industry. Clay never paraded around beards (well there was one which I miss terribly. Clay with scruff, especially for a great cause? Hot!)or denounced homosexuality as a sin. He never mocked anyone struggling with the same issues to draw attention away from himself (really quick with the button there Seacrest!). If Clay had done these things I might be slightly miffed but would get over it quickly. He's too damn cute and I'm too easy.

The real issue I'm struggling with? How did our pudgy papa bear so quickly turned back into a sleek fox? The pouchy tummy (which I adore and I don't have room to talk) was out loud and proud during the at home video and now his sweatpants are hanging off of him? Does he skip a few hot pockets and that's it? He's been barely bottle dancing for two weeks!

[bottlecap]

While y'all are out prowling around in the wilds of the Clay Nation, maybe you can keep an out for pictures as reports are that Clay also did the stagedoor this evening.

'Night!

[muskifest]

Whoa...I just finally posted on THAT THREAD at the OFC. I hit the "submit" button and then gasped. I haven't posted there in a long time so I'd forgotten what my siggie said. I wrote these things so very long ago in an essay...

Rest easy, Clay. Your voice and your heart will carry you where you choose to go. I'll simply love you along the way.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Clay opens his mouth and releases the joy and spirit in that magical voice and I am his. He gives us so much of himself. He trusts us. I choose to trust him, too

[djs111]

All the prying and speculation elsewhere about timelines and lies and every utterance in an interview and expecting apologies has got me more down about the fandom than I thought it could.

Picking apart song choices, assigning motives and thought processes - to be honest, if I was Clay, I'd chuck the whole fan thing - the intrusiveness would be too much for me.

[cindilu2]

All the prying and speculation elsewhere about timelines and lies and every utterance in an interview and expecting apologies has got me more down about the fandom than I thought it could.

Picking apart song choices, assigning motives and thought processes - to be honest, if I was Clay, I'd chuck the whole fan thing - the intrusiveness would be too much for me.

You know what though? As much as those people suck. And suck they do. I still think they're a very small minority. I have a mostly good feeling about the fanbase - for the most part 'we' have handled this far better than I ever expected. That Aiken fella's a pretty damn special guy.

muski - I love your OFC siggie. Heheh. Mine is 'Stupid people are like Slinkys. Totally useless and yet you can't help but smile when you push them down the stairs.' Also appropriate, no?

[atinal]

I have a question for those of you who have spent more time than me over at the OFC, (for me that was pratically none, until a day or two after this story broke) Do you have a feel for what number or percentage of the fans over there are posting these OTT diatribes?

Lord, is the 2 weeks almost over? It seems like forever. Anyway, I read for an hour or 2, 2 or 3 different times, and it was so hard to tell. I never started at the beginning of the thread, many times I would just go over after annabear would post a link to one of Jaymes' posts.

Some of the nastiest posts seemed to get quoted a lot, so I'm not sure if that makes it appear that there are more of them.

I have been stunned by the cruelty and anger being spewed by some of them. Some of them do almost come off like the women scorned, you know of the "hell hath no furry" variety. Kind of like Clay cheated on them by being gay, but it's the liiiiiiiiieeeeeee that is/was the last straw.

I'll bet there aren't as many bible verses thrown around at a preachers convention.

[cindilu2]

Stage door photos on the CB - I think they're from this afternoon. It was raining tonight and he still did stagedoor - such an inconsiderate guy.

PHOTOS IN THIS THREAD

[cindilu2]

You know, I thought that Jaymes was a little off-base/harsh in her asssertion that some folks were using The Lie to cover their real issue *coughcoughhomophobiacough* but the longer this goes on with the same people saying the same things... maybe she's even wiser than I thought.

[JennaZ]

You know what though? As much as those people suck. And suck they do. I still think they're a very small minority. I have a mostly good feeling about the fanbase - for the most part 'we' have handled this far better than I ever expected. That Aiken fella's a pretty damn special guy.

I agree. You know, I have to say, I'm actually impressed with the majority of Clay Nation. I always thought that if Clay came out, the reaction would be much more negative. In fact, a lot of people I thought would really struggle with this have actually been surprisingly supportive.

Sure, some of the Christian fundamentalists have abandoned him. And there are all those obsessed with this "He lied, and lied about not lying." But it seems to me that the vast majority have either embraced him, or are struggling but still trying to come to terms with it.

Even at the OFC, I think if you really look at it, I think it's actually just a small number of bitter people who just keep posting over and over again. I think the majority support Clay, but so many can't bear the tone that the trolls and haters seem over represented.

[annabear]

Stage door photos on the CB - I think they're from this afternoon. It was raining tonight and he still did stagedoor - such an inconsiderate guy.

PHOTOS IN THIS THREAD

He was wearing the Asheville DCAT shirt.

I read at the OFC that someone did get pics & video tonight as well, but I don't think they've surfaced yet.