#41: Clay Aiken Makes His Triumphant Return!

[Couch Tomato]

It's says a lot to me that they can only point to a few names and successes when they say it's easier today.

[cindilu2]

That is all.

[Couch Tomato]

That is all.

bwah

[wandacleo]

I don't think that coming out is a LOT easier in many places than it was 10 years ago. Maybe in the entertainment industry--looking only at the public aspect--but in real life, the cost can be very high. I know people who have stayed in the closet their whole lives and now are too ashamed/embarrassed/whatever to come out--even though the climate seems better. If you build one image of yourself, it can be so difficult to live with a new one--even if it's more honest. So much of life is habit.

Clay is--if nothing else--a brave man.

[bottlecap]

I love Clay unconditiontally & I mean it ( well, unless he was an axe murderer), and look forward to hearing great music & attending concerts & hopefully other wonderful endeavors for years to come.

To me, it might kind of depend on who the victim was...

Totally agree with the rest of your statement, though.

[JennaZ]

I do think it's still very hard, especially in some places and situations. As much as it's considered politically incorrect to express anti-gay sentiments, the fact remains that many, many people are still quietly homophobic, and in surprising ways.

[muskifest]

“You can still be fired in 30 states if you’re openly gay. You can’t serve in the military. There is no federal hate-crime legislation.

This is TRUE? :o

[merryclay]

I love Clay unconditiontally & I mean it ( well, unless he was an axe murderer), and look forward to hearing great music & attending concerts & hopefully other wonderful endeavors for years to come.

To me, it might kind of depend on who the victim was...

Totally agree with the rest of your statement, though.

ITA, too, except, I might let him have a swing of the axe at the madman.

[wandacleo]

I do think it's still very hard, especially in some places and situations. As much as it's considered politically incorrect to express anti-gay sentiments, the fact remains that many, many people are still quietly homophobic, and in surprising ways.

Surprising---like pretending it's all about the "lies."

I have a confession to make. I'm sorely ashamed.

I actually caught myself, for one brief moment, shipping Clay. Imagining him being held and loved.

In my defense, it was with Anderson Cooper.

Nonetheless....I'm ashamed.

ETA: I have no idea if AC is gay, but since I have the hots for him, I was willing to share him with someone I love--Clay.

[cha cha trusty]

That is all.

That's about all I have to say too.

[00lsee]

Disclaimer: I feel like a total fame-ho, posting this at the CH, the OFC, AND here...but it seems to go with the current discussion. Here goes:

Out of curiosity, I went back to see how I felt about the 'mess' back in 2006...and was pleased to see how little my feelings have changed. Loved him then, love him now.

Warning: this journey down memory lane is very long. Scroll at will.

Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:37 pm

My love for Clay Aiken is unconditional...and, to my delight, seemingly limitless. Every time I think I've found the boundary to my affection, something like this comes along and stretches it still more. And every time I think I fully understand this fandom, something comes along to challenge my assumptions and ultimately reinforces my belief that Clay Aiken does indeed have "the best fans in the world". I'm proud to be standing shoulder to shoulder with all of you and with him.

Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:35 pm

I thought about what I was going to write yesterday for a long time...and yet I ended up dissatisfied with it...I couldn't put my finger on "why".

The reason struck me later while reading the "circle the wagons" thread...It's that word "unconditional". I noticed how many people were saying supportive things about "knowing Clay's true character" and "not believing the lies" told about him. I had said something similar. It struck me that as noble as those sentiments are, as touching as it is for his fans to believe Clay incapable of doing what his accusers claim he has done, that I personally didn't mean to imply that my agreement with this belief was the basis of my support.

Because I ask myself, "What if? What then?"

Is true "unconditional" love really possible?

(Disclaimer: Violence and minors are a different issue, one I have faith I will never be faced with where Clay is concerned.)

I mean, as much as I "love him", I can't help but love only "who I think Clay is" because I don't really know him. I ask myself, "What if who he is does not match my assumptions? What then?" I ponder this...and even as I restate my belief that the distasteful stories are indeed false...I am nevertheless struck with a profound thought. It doesn't matter. While I might still cherish a negative opinion of the alleged behavior and believe Clay to be "better than that" in my heart...I realize that my acceptance toward and love for Clay cannot be diminished at all by any past or future personally disappointing truth I might learn about him.

"What if?" I ask. "What then?"

"Even so," my heart answers. "Even so."

It is a liberating realization. One quote I found yesterday about love said, "Perfect love is not seeing a person as perfect. It is seeing an imperfect person perfectly."

I myself possess many daunting flaws. I know I am very capable of disappointing others, of behaving outside my own value system, of "being" less than I "ought to be", less than I strive to be. In those times, when I have been unlovable, ruined, and covered in regret...then, even then, there have been hands reaching out in love toward me. Not approving of my particular failings, but still seeing me not merely as I was at that wretched moment, but as I could be...as I long to be. Sometimes my "circle of wagons" has been a circle of one. One unconditional one. It was enough.

I have the benefit of never having had scandalous lies published or threatened to be published about me. Even the sordid truth about my life's mistakes has never been paraded before a snickering world. Sometimes I think lies would have been easier to bear than my truth. I am in no position to look down on anyone. Unconditional love? Oh, yes, please. I hope so!

So, perhaps it is with a clear view of my own failings that I can look, clear-eyed, at Clay Aiken. While I hope and believe the current vulgar stories are false and while my own brain is busily fantasizing about suitable punishment for those who dare to attack him and "us", it comforts me to know that "I'd love him even so...Even so." I am at peace, whatever comes.

Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:35 pm

I trust Clay.

I believe Clay.

I believe in Clay.

My thoughts about "unconditional love" did not spring from speculation or doubt. I'm not sure what to call them.

An attempt at total open truth, perhaps. My truth.

I can't view Clay through any other lens by my own. The lens of my life is flawed. It can't be otherwise. My instincts for self-protection, to preserve love, have caused me to lie countless times. In big ways and in small ways. I lack the courage to live authentically all the time, so I know how challenging it is to even appear to be a good person, never mind to actually BE one.

So, when I present this "face" to the world, this imitation of goodness, even if I'm trying my best to be "real" and "honest"...part of me wonders "Would they still love me if they REALLY knew me?"

I guess what I realized when I posted yesterday was that part of me was holding back...part of me was clinging to saying, "Yes, I believe Clay is telling the truth!" When inside I was thinking, "Does he know the rest of my heart? Does he know what I mean when I say I accept him? Does he know what unconditional means to me?"

I feel absolutely confident believing him in this instance, so saying "more" about this situation doesn't feel like "doubt" or "speculation" to me. It's just that declaring "I believe him" didn't feel generous ENOUGH. It didn't feel as real as the affection and acceptance I have for him.

Knowing myself as I do, I wanted to say very clearly that I have warts. Serious warts. I doubt anyone will ever see the complete real me, so I may never know what it feels like to be truly seen and known and loved for myself, warts and all.

Yet, I want to offer that kind of love to Clay, to the best of my ability. If his complete truthfulness is a prerequisite to my acceptance and love toward him, then I absolutely don't deserve the love that others give me. Because I am deceitful. I am manipulative. I am self-protecting. But I try. I really try to be unafraid and to be truthful. I'm not talking about this one situation currently brewing with Clay. Maybe I'm not even talking about him. I'm talking about the way I share myself with others. What I'm willing to reveal. What I hold back.

I had to ask myself these "questions" about Clay, "What if, what then" simply because I know how often I ask myself this about the love others give me. "What if they knew this other thing about me? What then? What if I was completely open about my fears? My selfishness? My apathy? What then? Would they still love me?"

I'd like to think that others see me as better than I am....because honestly a lot of the time I feel worthless, undeserving, and fatally flawed. I wanted Clay to know that his FLAWS, even his hidden imperfections, his self-doubt, his selfishness, his brokenness...(all of these things within myself that cause me so much pain)...don't keep him from being worthy of real love in my eyes. "Would they still love me if..." If I ask these questions about myself, I assumed he might be asking them, too. I wanted him to hear the answer. A resounding, "Yes! Clay, yes!"

This story has indeed brought out some actual doubt and some actual speculation...I'm sorry if my words seemed to be implying a disbelief in Clay's integrity or any kind of acceptance or belief in the kind of hateful motives which continue to inspire people to say untrue things about Clay.

Not at all.

But it doesn't always comfort me when people say, "There, there...we know what kind of person you really are. We have faith in you".....when I know in my heart how little they really know me. The encouragement that is most valuable to me is the kind that comes from a backdrop of really KNOWING me...REALLY knowing (or at least really wanting to and being prepared to)...and caring fiercely anyway.

The haters haven't "won". Not by a long shot. If anything they have resoundingly LOST. Because by forcing me to take a closer look at my feelings, my heart has broken wide open for him all over again. Truth? Truth is, he's got me. He's an imperfect man...but that's okay, because my imperfect love is all I have to give him.

I must have spent HOURS on that other post. I've spent minutes on this one...writing without a net...no longer being SO CAREFUL to say the right thing...in just such a way...

This is me. Filters off.

playbiller, I'm sorry I can't really help you or any other fan/friend who is struggling right now. For some to 'recover', there may come a time and place where the heart comes to acknowledge its disappointment, anger, confusion, etc., accepts there may never be a satisfactory explanation or apology...for anything...and gradually lets Clay back in, just as he is, ANYWAY.

I think of one section of the GMA interview:

Diane: There must have been suffering, in the beginning, when you are grappling with it.

Clay: For me?

Diane: Yeah, because, no kid deals easily with something they know is charged.

Clay: Well, I've always been pretty stubborn and...I've always thought that I could handle more than most people could...

And my mind asks: why would there be a need for him to believe he could 'handle more than most people' if what he needed to 'handle' was not very difficult, indeed? And, being difficult, it was bound to have pitfalls and detours for him and for his fans. I think Clay's fans have proven many times over that THEY can 'handle more than most people'. Time will tell.

The good news for those fans who are feeling driven out or culled at this moment...I myself almost completely left the boards for several months after what was then, for me, a pretty painful 'gate. And to my everlasting joy, I eventually found my way back.

Looking back, everyone will see this episode differently. For some it will be painful, for others not. For some, this may be remembered as 'baby-out-of-wedlock-gate'. For others...'why-didn't-he-tell-us-sooner-gate' or 'Jaymes-on-the-OFC-gate' or 'how-can-I-accept-him-if-he's-gay-gate'. Maybe some other variation of 'baby-as-shield-gate' or 'fan-wars-gate' or 'I-feel-lied-to-gate' or 'I-don't-know-if-I-can-forgive-gate' or whathaveyou. And I have no advice except to sit with it a while. There is no rush. Time may grant perspective that a current mindset can't see or accept. If it feels important enough to struggle with, it's important to give yourself time to process and resolve in your mind.

(((HUGS))) to those who need them.

And...I love that Clay Aiken guy.

[bottlecap]

That is all.

That's about all I have to say too.

Is the pot-smoking banana significantly slower and out-of-sync with the other nanas for everybody, or is it just me?

"This is your naner. And this is your naner on drugs..." :kos:

[00lsee]

"This is your naner. And this is your naner on drugs..." :kos:

OMG. First belly-laugh of the day! Thanks! Bwahahaha

[FearofH2O]

Since in NC it's illegal to live with a member of the opposite sex without being married in NC, I would think all single persons here should be gay. Strange how this old laws were written without forethought. Even stranger that they haven't been overturned.

Now that's funny BC.

[annabear]

BWAH bottle!!!

Other than that, I'm still here, not going anywhere anytime soon. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[JennaZ]

I do understand that people are struggling. I'm struggling too. I'm struggling to understand why it is so critically important to some that Clay admit that he lied.

There seems to be this need for some kind of mea culpa. I do believe that there are people upset by "the lie" who are not homophobic. They may even understand the reasons he was in the closet, and may even sympathize with what he's been going through. But why does this have to be about blame or the shifting of responsibility?

When I think of all the things that some closeted gay people do to pass as straight -- marry people they don't love, make homophobic statements to avoid suspicion, overcompensate by actively engaging in stereotypical heterosexual behaviors -- Clay's meager Rolling Stone statement made five years ago seems like nothing. And the evasions of the last few years? Looks like an genuine effort not to lie. If he had no interest in being truthful, he could have just told Larry King, the Newsweek interviewer, and every other aggressively persistent reporter that he was straight. He did not.

Rolling Stone aside, I do think he did everything he could to try not to directly lie, and yet keep his sexuality private. And for me, it's his intentions and motivations that matter, more than whether he said something once that was technically not accurate.

In the end, I don't think it's homophobia that's ultimately driving the "but he lied" sentiment. I think it's entitlement, the feeling that because we defended him, perhaps even took crap for him, he owes us remorse for his actions.

Personally, I feel he had a right to his sexual privacy, and a right to do what he did to protect it. I just don't see him as the callous, manipulative, liar some seem to want to make him. I see him as a young man who tried to be who he was, without labels, in a society that insists upon labelling people according to sexual orientation. He did his best. Maybe his best isn't good enough for everyone, but it is for me.

[Couch Tomato]

OMG I spent last night and this morning trying to explain why (unlike you) have no empathy for the he lied about lying and he lied stuff..and you sum it up for me perfectly. Hope you dont' mind but will be sharing your words with others. Thanks Jenna!

ETA: Damn does OMWH the song and the album take on new meaning. This is the first time I"ve listened since we knew and I have to say..it's a totally different experience. A good one!

[cindilu2]

OMG I spent last night and this morning trying to explain why (unlike you) have no empathy for the he lied about lying and he lied stuff..and you sum it up for me perfectly. Hope you dont' mind but will be sharing your words with others. Thanks Jenna!

ETA: Damn does OMWH the song and the album take on new meaning. This is the first time I"ve listened since we knew and I have to say..it's a totally different experience. A good one!

I HIGHLY (not dancing nanner highly either!) recommend listening to OMWH (song and album) again - it really is incredible. In every way.

[muskifest]

00lsee and Jenna....thank you for saying so much so well. I'm with you both and all of your words.

and bottle, thank you, too, for keepin' on with the funny...."this is your nanner on drugs" is making me close to alarmingly hysterical...

[wandacleo]

I wish I could be as understanding as Jenna, but I just don't believe that there isn't homophobia involved in the lying fixation. Remember when ALL THOSE FANS believed that they were communicating with Clay and that he was sharing things with them. They had NO problem with his duplicity then. Those fans who were buying baby presents for FBM weren't up in arms screaming about how he had lied to them--they were salivating at the thought that they had "insider information."

Well, we all now have insider information, but the response is quite different.

[luckiest1]

In the end, I don't think it's homophobia that's ultimately driving the "but he lied" sentiment. I think it's entitlement, the feeling that because we defended him, perhaps even took crap for him, he owes us remorse for his actions.

I think there's some homophobia, I think there's an awful lot of entitlement, and I think there is some pretty obnoxious behaviour as well. I think Jaymes pretty much hit the nail on the head with her post, as much as some don't like it. Of course, this does not apply to all, or even most, of the posters at the OFC. Just a select few.

[jazzgirl]

I have a confession to make. I'm sorely ashamed.

I actually caught myself, for one brief moment, shipping Clay. Imagining him being held and loved.

In my defense, it was with Anderson Cooper.

Nonetheless....I'm ashamed.

ETA: I have no idea if AC is gay, but since I have the hots for him, I was willing to share him with someone I love--Clay.

The exact same thought inexplicably occurred to me this morning, but it's too high profile a pairing so I don't see it as anything but a strange daydream. IMO, Anderson and whatever PR team he has have done an amazing job of deflecting comments regarding his private life, although I am vaguely aware of a magazine that listed him as one of the most powerful gays in American (even if he didn't want the designation) and internet buzz.

The news of this past week reminded me of being seven years old and getting glasses for the first time. I was struck by how clear everything suddenly looked to me, including OMWH and some puzzling events over the past five years.

[Couch Tomato]

well when we did our little experiment about google I had Andersen Cooper and the underbelly of the internet is out there for him just like Clay..not to the same degree but it was there. It just never made it mainstream like I feel a lot of the stuff about CLay wasn't mainstream. But I'm sure there are devoted Andersen fans out there that know every peice of crap ever written about him.

[keepingfaith]

Hmmm. Some people want Clay to apologize for lying, but if he doesn't think he was lying then his apology would be a lie, wouldn't it? I'm confused. I'll have what the naner is having.

[cindilu2]

Jenna, I neglected to say what a great post that is. I wish you'd copy it over to the Clayboard thread. Or barring that, may I copy it? There are some there who really need to hear it (even in they won't listen).