# 10 It isn't so easy to get your knickers off when they're in a knot.

[lightmyfire]

YAY! Can't wait for the House finale tonight! :medium-smiley-070:

My favourite version of UM is the David Foster gala version. I luuuurves it.

I don't understand the concept of Clay Aiken oversinging. Does not compute for me. I guess it's because I love the glory notes.

And my only concern with ATDW prior to the drop was that the effort would be glory note overload..HA!

[muskifest]

keepingfaith...

that youtube.....

holyshit.

I MISS that guy....like really, really. Dang. I miss concert Clay.

ETA: luckiest, it's not glory notes, per se, that I'm talking about when I say 'oversinging'. I lurve me some glory notes, too...it's more a tone or quality of the sound of his voice. Sometimes he blasts volume and fullness when he doesn't need to or should, IMO. He's trying to make it GOOD and tries too hard, I guess.

At least to my ears.

Other parts of my body, however, don't always agree with my ears.

Edited May 29, 2007 by muskifest

[keepingfaith]

that youtube.....

holyshit.

I MISS that guy....like really, really. Dang. I miss concert Clay.

The way he sang "I need .... your love" in Columbus (via Clack for moi) just totally rips me. The talk about UM today reminded me to revisit it for the first time in a couple of months. Hot stuff!!

[keepingfaith]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/05/29/j...he_n_49799.html

Anybody see this today? Justin Timberlake has launched his own record label in competition with Jive and named himself CEO.

[luckiest1]

ETA: luckiest, it's not glory notes, per se, that I'm talking about when I say 'oversinging'. I lurve me some glory notes, too...it's more a tone or quality of the sound of his voice. Sometimes he blasts volume and fullness when he doesn't need to or should, IMO. He's trying to make it GOOD and tries too hard, I guess.

Killing time while that youtube loads........thanks for the link!

I guess I'm just too easy of a fan, or not knowledgeable enough about music.......because unless he hits a really bad note (sure doesn't happen often) or has a problem with his voice like he did with AIW in Waukegan, I just can't find anything about his singing to criticize. I love his tone, the more volume, the better, for me. :eusa_whistle:

[Couch Tomato]

Hey I'm an easy fan too but he does oversing now and then to my ear as well. And I love glory notes too so it ain't those. And I know nothing about music. It's not that much so can't even detect any kind of pattern... usually when he's sick he summons everything he has and sings even better. So that ain't it. heee. And I can't really name a song cuz it doesn't happen that much.

6:45 ok Muski.

Ya'll done picking on California yet. Am I the only native?

[Kareneh]

kandre I thought that was weird too. I didn't know they had ranchers in California. LOL

Yep! I'm sure Ronald Reagan was one.

keepingfaith! Yowza on that You Tube....

That was sublime. I think I shall skip over the rest of Clio and right on to Columbus during this, my JBT revisited week. I don't think I've seen ANY of the clack from that show yet. I always try to save some for later and then I forget where I was and what I was doing and well.....you know how it is, right?

One week from tomorrow I'm getting on a plane for Nova Scotia where I'm going to be faced with spotty internet service and my palms are already sweaty. I have this feeling that there is a weight on my chest.....I think it's my unconnected laptop I'm experiencing. I can get it three places. My mother's.....unless the person with the unsecured wireless network has moved out of her building. My brother and sister-in-laws house, who I believe now have a wirless network because they have four kids....count 'em four. But then they have some kind of "religious meetings" each week and when that's going on, they want me out of the house. (One of my kids ratted me out as a Lecherous Broad once.) There's my sister's place. Her son had a wireless network set up at one time...not sure about now....but my sister and her husband don't even do call waiting, voice mail, or cell phones. Just because they're stubborn. I doubt rehooking up the wireless is a priority with them. I hope it's not rude of me to bring my own router, eh? My mother-in-law has been asking me for ages how come we never stay with them when we come home and I've always fumbled around for some excuse, but this time I fessed up......"Well, we really need internet service."

You know because John has to check his email, right?

Well.....he does.

I need to get over this. I can do it. I know I can. I can drop into Starbucks, if I have to, for a little while each day. I can have a good time at home while not pissing of any family members or offending any unusual religious groups.

Funny shit, though. Last summer I was staying at my sister's and late one night the only two people still up were my brother-in-law and yours truly. He was watching Ulitmate Fighting Challenge in the livingroom and I was having an IM conversation on my laptop in the diningroom. He asked me to stop typing and go to bed because the clicking of the keys was bothering him. I said..."Huh?" Then...."Sure." and I went to bed, where I buried my face in my pillow, hard, so no one would hear me laughing. It was so frickin' funny! He's watching Ulitmate Fighting Challenge and the sound of laptop keys is annoying. I think I must have done something else that day to piss him off....because I too can be a little shit when I want to be. And sometimes they just dangle the ammunition....what's a girl to do?

Bottom line is...I'm trying to take my internet as I find it or 'not' when I'm there. I think it's actually a good thing to get away from cyberspace everyonce in a while.....isn't it?

[Clayzorback]

Thanks for the link keepingfaith. I'm so scatterbrained sometimes. I said my favorite version of UM was his single....Bwahaaa I was thinking of Solitaire when I said that. His AI2 version of UM would be my favorite version. Hee. Hey, you too will get old some day.

luckiest1 for me over singing is when he gets too theatrical or holds a note longer than he needs to or gets that broadway musical sound to me. Hard for me to describe what I mean. Or what muski said. He sounds good when he does it, but it just isn't necessary. Not trying to criticize him. I love his glory notes. Nobody does them better. I like it when he just sings regular too, without the grand standing.

Have a good evening ladies. I'm off to settle in for the evening.

[Divayenta]

Damn he so knows how sexy he is when he sings making those faces. I think singing is a sensual/sexual experience for the dear boy.

I agree that BFcan most definitely oversing and it grates on these ears. It's just unnecessary for him or bad technique. Bring on the those high sweet notes for me- no blasting, thank you. It's all breath support and warm up.

[Couch Tomato]

ok help me out ya'll...I want to fix the rankings... I need ideas..

what about levels of a record company... what are those heee

mailroom HA to Clive Davis..we need like five positions... and get out of the gutter.

[Gibby]

Here's my opinion about oversinging - it happens when poor vocal technique is used. The voice should be supported with the diaphragm, and the throat and mouth should be relaxed. If good support isn't used, and there is tension in the throat, it can lead to a harsh, forced tone quality. It's like the singer is trying to control or push the sound too much, and it ruins it.

Sometimes people will do oversing when they want more volume, or are trying to be heard in a group performance. Sometimes it will happen if a singer is tired, is slouching, or is having difficulty reaching a high note. Or, it's simply a stylistic choice. Some rockers in particular oversing a lot, and you can hear the vocal strain after awhile.

Clay naturally seems to use good vocal technique. He uses a lot of different vocal methods to 'color' the tone quality, which fascinates me to no end. Most of his vocal methods are beautiful and very effective. But, he does oversing at times. I used to take voice lessons, and I could just see my voice teacher working with him on oversinging! She would make him stop and correct his oversinging every time it happened.

ETA: Couchie - I like your idea for the levels. But I'm glad I don't have many posts, 'cuz I don't wanna be Clive. Just no. Ewwww! He's too creeepy lookin.'

Edited May 30, 2007 by Gibby

[playbiller]

You have youre intern; assistant; artist manager; publicist and Clive

There are also A&R people, accountants, producers,

What could Mods be - the board of directors?

Edited May 30, 2007 by playbiller

[ldyjocelyn]

Here's my opinion about oversinging - it happens when poor vocal technique is used. The voice should be supported with the diaphragm, and the throat and mouth should be relaxed. If good support isn't used, and there is tension in the throat, it can lead to a harsh, forced tone quality. It's like the singer is trying to control or push the sound too much, and it ruins it.

<snip>

Clay naturally seems to use good vocal technique. He uses a lot of different vocal methods to 'color' the tone quality, which fascinates me to no end. Most of his vocal methods are beautiful and very effective. But, he does oversing at times.

Thank you Gibby -- I think that's my take too. IMO, he's made great strides in this regard, because to me his major oversinging was with much of the early demos (not all). But, every once in a while (and again, not frequently), he does seem to slip into an old habit or two, for whatever reason. I liken it to what I've read about golf -- people start learning golf on their own, do pretty well but have some troubles, and then take lessons and figure out what they need to do to make things better. But, on an off day, they go back to what they did before. Clay doesn't do it often, IMO, but he does do it from time to time.

You have youre intern; assistant; artist manager; publicist and Clive

There are also A&R people, accountants, producers,

I'd go: intern; assistant; A&R; manager; and president.

couchie, that's a great idea for the levels!

[Couch Tomato]

You have youre intern; assistant; artist manager; publicist and Clive

There are also A&R people, accountants, producers,

What could Mods be - the board of directors?

Thanks for ideas Play...I went to a record company website for more ideas

Intern

Assistant

Publicist

SR VP of Sales

Chariman & CEO

Board of Directors

Ok I mixed together Play, my and LdyJ's suggestions... not quite right though..suggestions still welcome.. Assistant isn't sexy enough..Assistant to what..

[lightmyfire]

You have youre intern; assistant; artist manager; publicist and Clive

There are also A&R people, accountants, producers,

What could Mods be - the board of directors?

Thanks for ideas Play...I went to a record company website for more ideas

Intern

Assistant

Publicist

SR VP of Sales

Chariman & CEO

Board of Directors

Ok I mixed together Play, my and LdyJ's suggestions... not quite right though..suggestions still welcome.. Assistant isn't sexy enough..Assistant to what..

I would suggest replacing Assistant with A&R/Scout..

[playbiller]

I think A&R is more important than publicist - no A&R - no music

[lightmyfire]

I think A&R is more important than publicist - no A&R - no music

I agree 100% :F_05BL17blowkiss: ..I thought she desired a replacement for "Assistant"..My mistake...

[Ansamcw]

As far as Clay - I'm not a worrier. He knows much better than I how to navigate the music industry, and I can't pretend to know everything he has to deal with out there. Do I wish he could be at a label where he had complete creative control? Of course! But such a thing doesn't exist, unless he starts his own label after he's done with RCA. But then there will be less money for production and promotion. Unfortunately, there's no perfect solution out there.

To me this is a very crucial point...most of the fans are really amateurs when it comes to the music industry. Clay has availed himself with great entertainment lawyers and a management that is pretty well experienced. Clay is also the best expert on one crucial matter...what he himself wants. So if it seems like he is making career moves that is hard to understand...its ok...as long as it makes sense to the guy that matters the most, Clay.

ITA with this. Most of us have to report to someone else, whether a boss, a record label, shareholders, etc. None of us are immune to creative differences with those "in charge". I know some of the fans want to remove every obstacle from Clay's path, and I think that's dear and sweet, but it's not the real world. And sometimes, creative struggles can benefit an artist in the long run. Some fans seem to assume that the CD Clay didn't make this time around was the Holy Grail of all that is music. Perhaps it wasn't. Perhaps Clive was actually right. I guess none of us really know. I would love to hear what Clay would produce free of any kind of restrictions, and perhaps we someday will, but I can't pine away for what I didn't get when I don't KNOW what I didn't get.

This to me is very important....I actually think Clay has had it very easy in his musical journey before Idol. His voice has this natural beautiful tones and good vocal technique that takes years of training seem to come to him naturally. I do believe it made him less ambitious in his music thats why he found his way into education. I like the fact that now he is getting really challenged to come up with music that will earn him industry respect. The reason why I like ATDW is that I feel he really put a lot of himself in creating new interpretations of these classics. I know a lot of people want him to do different things but I feel he isn't done exploring his little comfort zone yet. If things came easy to him ...if he gets his awards too early...then where is the challenge in that. I think this is just the start of Clay/s creative journey.

Fully Functional - well we heard 4 songs from the Holy Grail and we only have to go back to the archives to see what the fandom felt about those at the time. And the struggle for artistic freedom may be what gave us Lover All Alone. So I guess I'm saying WORD.

exactly...I really think if that first CD came out...we won't have LAA.

Bottom line: I'm all for my kids feeling okay about expressing themselves through harmless vehicles. I consider hair and makeup harmless vehicles. I don't include drinking, drugs, careless sexm, rudeness and theft harmless things, so if they begin to experiment with THAT kind of expressiveness, I'll become a bitch of a mother...

WORD...if my girls want to do something with their hair...they will be the one who will live with it 24/7 and face people with it....so I;m fine with that.

Ah The Prayer...

I have loved this song ever since I watched the movie Quest for Camelot and I have tons of versions of this...Bocelli, groban, Charlotte Church, Celine...I have heard the solo and duet versions...I always wanted Clay to sing it. I understand what y'all are saying but I just don;t agree... I really loved his version precisely because he didn't try to do classical placement...he stayed true to himself and sang a pop version. yes there were some notes that was oversung...but there were moments in this performance that was achingly beautiful for me. I do agree in a way that Clay and Quiana didn't quite blend but I think its because of the recording. I do want to hear him sing this song on his own...with a bit more rehearsals.

UM...

never my favorite...I remember when I first heard he had a demo of this song...I was so excited. But I think it was one that really disappointed me cos I had such expectations for it. ON AI I do think he over sung it a tad...but I remember watching it ...I was so nervous cos I didn't want him to screw up again after Vincent ...so I was kinda hiding my face on a pillow..when I heard that beautiful falsetto NEEED...I jumped up and started cheering and going YES!!! and I swear I was tearing up a bit.

I think my favorite UM was the BAF gala...it was not oversung...and he had a lot of soft touches to it that I love.

I am loving the talk about BBQ and Texas vs California...but I swear...I don;t think I ever had chili without beans...you Texans must bring over some to California...heehe is know for the smoothness of his voice.

Diva...BWAH...that was very clever!!!

Clay and over singing???yeah that is my pet peeve. Thats why I worry about his voice at times because the over singing can hurt his chords specially when he is not in tip top shape. BUT I do believe he has learned to take care of his voice better...to play around with a song and change his interpretation when he is having vocal issues instead of just powering through.

[Kareneh]

Am I too late to offer up Boot Licker? Are you being all serious and what not?

Elongated member doesn't fit the theme.....let me think.....

[keepingfaith]

I think I shall skip over the rest of Clio and right on to Columbus during this, my JBT revisited week. I don't think I've seen ANY of the clack from that show yet. I always try to save some for later and then I forget where I was and what I was doing and well.....you know how it is, right?

Karen Eh?, may I suggest jojo's Motown at Columbus. I believe I have settled into that being my all-time favorite JBT Motown video. If you like the Motown stuff, check it out.

[Gibby]

BWAH, Karen! Too funny!

[keepingfaith]

Elongated member doesn't fit the theme.....let me think.....

In that case, maybe change the theme? :eusa_whistle:

[Couch Tomato]

Am I too late to offer up Boot Licker? Are you being all serious and what not?

Elongated member doesn't fit the theme.....let me think.....

BWAH...if you can come up with 4 more in that vein, you're on hee.

[merrieeee]

Err.....shoe tyer

[Couch Tomato]

I think A&R is more important than publicist - no A&R - no music

I agree 100% :F_05BL17blowkiss: ..I thought she desired a replacement for "Assistant"..My mistake...

I did. I think I can use both suggestions...

Intern

A&R/Scout

SR VP of Sales & Marketing or whatever

Chariman & CEO

Board of Directors

but I sure like bootlicker, ass kisser,

ETA: An hour later I get shoe tyer LOL and I do think that would be the top of the ladder.