# 10 It isn't so easy to get your knickers off when they're in a knot.

[Guest huskerfalcon]

I gotta admit I worry about the state of his recording career. I want him to have the creative freedom any artist deserves, and I sure didn't see that happening with ATDW. Hopefully, things will be mucho different with the next album. Hope does spring eternal!

[Ansamcw]

I gotta admit I worry about the state of his recording career. I want him to have the creative freedom any artist deserves, and I sure didn't see that happening with ATDW. Hopefully, things will be mucho different with the next album. Hope does spring eternal!

Its funny but I think this is the project where he had the most creative freedom...that is why he considers it most reflective of who he is.

yes he had some parameters...but he was given the ability to play around with the presentation of the music and since he had so many songs to choose from...I suppose he was given the freedom to set the sound he wanted to create.

I really think that true creative freedom is rare once an artist becomes commercial. Even artist that have their own record companies still have to consider the market...and the current trends. Very few artist can afford the luxury of experimentation. Often when artist do give in to their more adventurous side... go back to what is expected of them or try to follow whats popular.

Clay did say that the next CD will be more creative...so I suppose he is getting some freedom for more exploration of his sound.

[playbiller]

K'Andre - the fun part of the day was washing the bathroom with bleach - that is why I said the rest was TMI

Back to angst/worry - I don't see where that contributes to anything though - it seems to have no purpose other than making one's self and those around them unhappy. Look at Clay's face - does he look unhappy? no - why should he be happy while we are all up-set?

Now I say this as a semi-professional worrier - I like to consider all outcomes (in my own life) to be prepared for whatever happens. Heck, at work I was a professional worrier - I used to harrangue ohter people about their quality of testing. I have a real bad attitude towards people who put untested software (like Microsoft) into production. One of the reasons I did not fit in at the last company - they spent at least 45% of thier time correcting production problems and trying to correct the figures. I tried to convince then that they could get more done if they just spent a little more time up front (oddly enough it was the CMS philosophy!) - see a proffessional worrier. It took them a long time to get rid of me, mostly because I could prove I was right and I had a lot of friends (i.e. people who needed me) - those bunch of highly paid idiots in upper management. Pennywise, poundfoolish - it was all about the next "quarterly report". And this would be all I have to say about any majpr stock owned corporation - like say - BMG.

Angst - not worth my time.

Edited May 29, 2007 by playbiller

[Couch Tomato]

Prince

HF...I just read the Wikipedia entry on Prince. This was a a man with an impressive track record of not just commercial successes but critical ones as well including Purple Rain which sold 13 Million in the United States and Warner Bros still didn't give him carte blanche to do what he wanted. My guess is that what happened to Clay is the norm in the record industry not the exception. There are many ways to handle the all powerful record companies. Prince chose to:

In 1994, during negotiations regarding the release of Prince's album The Gold Experience, a battle between Warner Bros. and Prince ensued, struggling over the artistic and financial control of Prince’s output. During that time, Prince only appeared in public with the word “SLAVE” written on his cheek. Prince explained his name change as follows:

heee... don't quite see Clay doing this. Don't know what he did exactly other than do the best he could under the parameters set. I do think he was able to do some musical exploration and make an album with integrity. In other words he didn't half ass it. My hope for Clay is that he was also able to negotiate future projects and have more creative freedom. He's not in there alone without protection and compromise is the name of the game in most business. Even albums with no such parameters will involve compromise as they put together the final product. I'm looking forward to what's next..well I will be after the tour.

Following that disappointing venture, Warner Bros. succumbed to Prince's wishes to release an album of new material, to be entitled Come. The label had refused to grant the album a release in the past, believing the music on it to be dreadfully mediocre and lacking a potential hit single. When Come was eventually released, it confirmed all of Warner's worst fears. It became Prince's poorest-selling album to date, struggling to even shift 500,000 copies. Even more frustrating was the fact that Prince insisted on crediting the album to "Prince 1958–1993".

It also was a critical failure for Prince. Now I'm all about the artists getting more of a piece of the pie financially. Prince definitely made a lot of people rich. Does that mean the record company has to put out anything handed them? No. Today we have kelly putting out an album that the record company isn't happy with. I haven't heard any of the songs. Don't know how much is truth and how much is a narrative. But if the girl is a mediocre song writer than I don't blame the big bad record company for saying are you kidding me? We'll see how that comes out in the wash. And she sold what? 10 million last album.

Clay just has to endure - keep growing and learning and exploring and he'll be fine. I really feel that. And who knows, it may take years but I know he'll be ready when he gets that opportunity. <Dusts off angel wings and puts them in the closet.>

[Guest huskerfalcon]

We'll have to respectfully agree to disagree about what went on with ATDW, as I feel very strongly in a direction that I know wouldn't be popular here.

Prince's fight for artistic freedom was very interesting, as was George Michael's. They made loud splashes with their fights, but there are many many other artists who have fought and are still fighting. I think Kelly has been fighting, but she did go back into the studio more than once to rerecord. Clive does not like her songwriting and makes no bones about it.

So anyway, I'll just provide lovely distractions!!!

Edited May 29, 2007 by huskerfalcon

[cha cha trusty]

fly-by post - I should be in bed......

Just wanted to say WORD to play - and say: I AM NOT A WORRIER!!

:Tour3: ............... :Tour3: .................. :Tour3:

.

Edited May 29, 2007 by cha cha trusty

[Kareneh]

Well, there was no ballgame at Minute Maid tonight so I ended up back at Walmart again. This time I got printer ink, bagels, and lots of Sterlite shoe boxes. Lots!

I'm still deeply buried in my JBT vids but am going to have to call it a night soon. On the topic of worry....can't say I ever fretted all that much over anything Clay. I'd say the biggest concern I ever had was how 2006 would play out but since that was out of my control....a lot of that stuff got boring pretty damn quick. My getting 'freaked' over concerts, music, et. al. various and sundry items of interest (that I also have no control over).....mostly involves the expression WTF? There's normally an eyeroll and a head shake thrown in there, too. I wouldn't say that Clay chosing to record or perform music in a style that I don't particularly care for worries me. I may not like it, but there are plenty of people who will. So, if he doesn't give me what's number one on my list then I don't worry. Maybe I'll get it next time, maybe I won't....but really....being open to the possibilites, his possibilities, is what makes this whole adventure so enjoyable.

Well, lunch with the eHP is fun, too.

So is being laid back.

Or on top for that matter.

[luckiest1]

Then, a couple of weeks ago, she announces that she wants BLUE hair. And not just highlights, she wants the whole thing blue. This is my daughter that has just been diagnosed with a math learning disability, (it's called dyscalculia) and has struggled this year with depression, poor kid.

So, hubby and I talk it over, and decide that if she really needs to express her individuality, hair isn't a bad way to do it. There are worse ways to express oneself during adolescence - like truancy, vandalism, theft, and promiscuity, to name a few. Since she isn't doing any of that stuff, and has been really trying to do a good job in school, we decide to let her express her adolescent need for individuality with blue hair.

Awwwww, this really resonated with me. My 15 year old son (who also has learning disabilities, etc) has dyed his hair black, blue and blonde, had a radical mohawk, and even shaved his head (at a relay for cancer) one time. I've taken the same stance, and I think it's been quite beneficial. Currently he has a semi-mullet. He's into the long-haired, electric guitar playing phase.

I gotta admit I worry about the state of his recording career. I want him to have the creative freedom any artist deserves, and I sure didn't see that happening with ATDW. Hopefully, things will be mucho different with the next album. Hope does spring eternal!

I take my cues from Clay's own words - he's stated many times that he had more creative control and input on ATDW than on his previous albums. He's also stated that he will have even more again on the next CD, so to me, it's all good. He's getting there, one step at a time, and making the most of it each time. He seems happy so I'm happy. I love ATDW with the heat of a thousand suns, and I am sure I'll love whatever he gives us next as well, regardless of genre or theme or song-writing credits. Now, bring on the CONCERTS!!!!! :Tour3: :Tour3: :Tour3:

Edited May 29, 2007 by luckiest1

[rcknrllmom]

One of the many reminders to come

Clay Chat:

Friday and Saturday

June 1 and 2

9PM - 11PM ET

I don't think there's a topic there that we haven't discussed already but it will still be fun to do it again ... we'll try to post an order of topics in the thread by Wednesday. Also, it's not too late to offer topic suggestions.

Aw darn it, I will miss it. that is our Relay for Life here...starting at 6pm Friday through 6am Saturday!!

[Clayzorback]

Great minds think alike muski. I need to start on my garage next.

Our children are past the "finding themselves" stage. Thank God. Looking back I don't think I could be so accepting of blue hair. HaHaHa

I used to worry about Clay's career. I used to fret about the decisions made on things. Then I realized that it takes two to tango. I'm sure Clay has been given opportunities and choices to sing more rocker upbeat angsty songs. I remember Clay saying, from the start, how he was afraid that he was going to be forced to do things he didn't want to do and didn't feel comfortable with. He stated that wasn't true at all that they were very nice and accommodating to him. He was allowed to ax a million dollar video, people, because he didn't like it. He was allowed to get them to change a word or line in a song on MOAM, IIRC, to say something he felt more comfortable singing. He isn't forced to do sexy videos. He has been allowed to sing his family friendly ballad stuff that he so loves. He leaves the word Damn out of his song when he performs it. He's a stylist/interpreter and that is his area of expertise. It has been said by his friends that he is very religious. This limits his ability and choices and is more than likely what will keep him off Top 40. Not Clive Davis. Clive wasn't the one who had the floating Bibles and crosses at his concerts. Clay by the very nature of who he is and what he stands for IMHO will dictate and MANDATE, if you will, his career direction. Much more than Clive Davis will. Clive hardly has any hands on with the artists anymore, is what I read somewhere. The only person who can box Clay in, is himself. IMHO

The music business is sleazy and has been for ever. Everyone knows that. Clay isn't being singled out. Nothing is happening to him that hasn't or won't happen to every single artist out there. To paint him as some sort of victim that doesn't have any input into his job is doing him a terrible disservice. To trash his label and Clive and everyone around him while he is still in their employ, is not doing him any favors. It's funny, I listen to Clay's own words too but find that some fans just cherry pick and twist his words. They leave out the stuff that doesn't fit into their victim theory. Like how Clay has said that he and Jaymes were having trouble finding any good songs. How they just don't make songs for singers anymore, so they went to Clive. I'm sure Clive listened to what they had already come up with and felt it wasn't commercial enough and had him to do ATDW. Maybe because there wasn't enough time to keep looking for new material. Or perhaps because Clay had also said that he and Jaymes kept finding themselves wanting to do more and more covers. Awww how easy some forget Clay's own words.

The only thing I worry about now is some of Clay's more OTT fans who are so unhappy but refuse to move on. They hang around and bring the entire fandom down with their constant trash, trash, trashing of Clive, RCA, promotion, and ATDW, and any other thing they can think of that they consider a slight against Clay. Waaay tooo OTT for me and I won't wallow in it anymore.

[luckiest1]

Clay isn't being singled out. Nothing is happening to him that hasn't or won't happen to every single artist out there. To paint him as some sort of victim that doesn't have any input into his job is doing him a terrible disservice. To trash his label and Clive and everyone around him while he is still in their employ, is not doing him any favors.

Yep, ITA with all of this. Clays a big boy and a smart guy, to boot. He's a grown man who can take care of his own business affairs. He has learned how the music business works, and he's finding his place within it. I think he's really taking his life back this year, and that includes his career. I haven't worried about him for a while now.

The only thing I worry about now is some of Clay's more OTT fans who are so unhappy but refuse to move on. They hang around and bring the entire fandom down with their constant trash, trash, trashing of Clive, RCA, promotion, and ATDW, and any other thing they can think of that they consider a slight against Clay. Waaay tooo OTT for me and I won't wallow in it anymore.

I am learning to separate my personal fandom from the online fandom, and it's amazing how freeing it is. I am sorry that some fans are unhappy, but that's their choice. There are lots of other artists who would probably love to have new fans...no one is holding them here but themselves. I hope they either can find happiness in this fandom, or move on to something else that does give them some joy. Because we all deserve to be happy! :medium-smiley-070:

Edited May 29, 2007 by luckiest1

[Couch Tomato]

HF: I can only comment on your comment which was fairly neutral so honestly I don't know how what I said contradicts what you said. I mentioned Prince as an example but also said this kind of thing was the norm and no amount of previous success gives the majority of artists carte blance to do whatever their heart desires. So I think we're agreeing here.

Clayzorback: Agree with your post although I think most of it seems to be arguments that may flow from somewhere else which makes me really really happy that from September to January I lived in my hole over here.

Pretty pictures. I think Clay is so photogenic. Every pretty person in the world is not photogenic. He's very lucky that way.

Last night on CNN they did this show on people famous for being famous. Of course the star of it was Parison Hilton and Nicole Ritchie. Paris seems so sleezy but she has aboslutely learned how to keep her face in the news and is more famous than people who actually have talent. So who is her PR person cuz they're genius. Thing is I remembered Clay has integrity and wouldn't turn his life over to something like that. Fortunately the fact that there aren't that many famous for being famouses out there gives me some sort of hope. The only idol mentions was some faceless wannabe Idol reject - so I wouldn't call him famous and of course the ever precious William Hung.

Check the DCAT thread cuz we do have one tshirt example there that Cindy did for us. Still working on others.

Well it's Tuesday and only 4 days of a work week.Tha'ts something.

[KAndre]

See, I do think they experimented a LOT with Clay - simply because the AI connection was new - Clay's fans were crazy - and Clay himself didn't fit into a box. I just don't think it was malicious. I think they though Clay was perfect for experimentation - successful enough that he would be a good subject and yet not so incredibly successful that they might fuck up an industry saving thing. They left that for the BritBot. The fandom is so very schizo sometimes - I remember at the beginning some people were insisting that Clay should be treated as a new paradigm - now some of the same people are insisting that Clay gets the same crap as everyone else.

Clayzor, I'm glad you reminded me of the TITN video (I frickin' LOVE that video - and TOTALLY off topic - I was watching Shear Genius and they had a Matt Rolston photoshoot! I was so SHOCKED to hear a name I recognized besides Jaclyn Smith! I am so unfashionista it ain't even much funny.) - and that really was some rocker persona - which didn't match the song at all and apparently Clay totally hated it and had enough power to kill it. Pulled it off incredibly well - but still hated it. I would have killed for that video to have been shot with ISY - but hey, c'est la vie.

I look around and see some in the fandom trying to stick everybody in the Clay Nation in a box as well - "we're not out grandmothers". Speak for yourself. My grandmother was hot. Listened to that old school jazz and blues and R&B that all that is rock eventually sprang from - but was the hip music of her day. There was a reason she had nine children. Every generation has its music and no one was born 90. Just because some assholes treat women and especially mature women as musically insignificant, doesn't mean we have to validate their shit. Some of the noisiest are the frickin' age to be grandmothers - hell, if you listened to Hendricks live and was old enough to buy your own ticket - the articles talking about how Clay has grannies in his audience - they are talking about you. If you were bebopping in a club to "Rio" - that was a generation ago and yes, you are in the granny agebracket. Just like Randy Jackson. If "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was your kick, you are probably firmly into middle age. And just because I downloaded Beyonce's "Irreplaceable" (man, I like that song - and the video) doesn't make me cool or hip or with it - it just means I like that song. One of few things that bother me is the apparent need for some for external validation for their taste. I'm working on getting over it.

I spent most of this incredibly rainy Memorial Day weekend watching TV I've seen y'all mention. I am now officially gonna have to hurt someone for mentioning both "Celebrity Fit Club" and "Charm School". I actually have set my frickin' TV to record these incredible trainwrecks of shows. Ding-dang you!

[Guest huskerfalcon]

Yes, we were agreeing, couchie.

Dang, I thought I had found a place to be comfortable... oh well. I'll see many of you at concerts, I'm sure.

[Couch Tomato]

Hey KAndre .. speaking from my own experience. You are so right. The grandma reference is never about me cuz I'm only 44 and I don't have kids let alone grandkids. heee Well that's perfectly old enough to be a grandma so yep they are talking about me too. I really believe they are just talking about not being PYTs. I say to that, this nation is growing older and so why run away from that? I think because older people are stereotyped by those in charge as old and that we love what their 90 year old mama's love. It's a problem I guess but not one that makes me disavow the older nature of this fandom. We're cool women. And I do believe Idol in general makes older folks fans of these kids - not just Clay. Hmmm haven't seen TITN video in a long time. I always had mixed feelings for it because Clay didn't seem comfortable in every frame. Is that available in the regular places. I think I lost it when my computer crashed.

[Gibby]

Then, a couple of weeks ago, she announces that she wants BLUE hair. And not just highlights, she wants the whole thing blue. This is my daughter that has just been diagnosed with a math learning disability, (it's called dyscalculia) and has struggled this year with depression, poor kid.

So, hubby and I talk it over, and decide that if she really needs to express her individuality, hair isn't a bad way to do it. There are worse ways to express oneself during adolescence - like truancy, vandalism, theft, and promiscuity, to name a few. Since she isn't doing any of that stuff, and has been really trying to do a good job in school, we decide to let her express her adolescent need for individuality with blue hair.

Awwwww, this really resonated with me. My 15 year old son (who also has learning disabilities, etc) has dyed his hair black, blue and blonde, had a radical mohawk, and even shaved his head (at a relay for cancer) one time. I've taken the same stance, and I think it's been quite beneficial. Currently he has a semi-mullet. He's into the long-haired, electric guitar playing phase.

I'm glad to see another parent who doesn't mind the wild hair! And the funny thing is that my daughter just had her first guitar lesson last night. She wants to play electric guitar, but is first learning on acoustic. She has a lot in common with your son!

As far as Clay - I'm not a worrier. He knows much better than I how to navigate the music industry, and I can't pretend to know everything he has to deal with out there. Do I wish he could be at a label where he had complete creative control? Of course! But such a thing doesn't exist, unless he starts his own label after he's done with RCA. But then there will be less money for production and promotion. Unfortunately, there's no perfect solution out there.

I think Clay's a big boy, and can take care of himself. Hmmmmm, that sounds kinda smutty.

[luckiest1]

I'm glad to see another parent who doesn't mind the wild hair! And the funny thing is that my daughter just had her first guitar lesson last night. She wants to play electric guitar, but is first learning on acoustic. She has a lot in common with your son!

Sounds like it! How old is your daughter? My son learned classical acoustic guitar in grades 9 and 10 at school (they have a guitar music course). So when I signed him up for lessons, based off of a recommendation from his classical guitar teacher, I had no idea it was for electric! The first day, I get him in the car, we drive there, we get out, he starts lugging his guitar case, and I realize he's brought an electric rather than an acoustic. I say "why?" and he just gives me a look, and sure enough, once we got within earshot of the guitar school, I could hear the electric guitars wailing!

Hey, do you ever get "the look" from the hair dresser? I usually let my son tell them what he wants, and then I get the "um, is that ok with you?" and a look of astonishment from the hair dresser. I always say that it's his hair. I guess I've just learned to pick my battles. Hmmm, that sounds familiar......

The grandma reference is never about me cuz I'm only 44 and I don't have kids let alone grandkids. heee Well that's perfectly old enough to be a grandma so yep they are talking about me too. I really they are just talking about not being PYTs. I say to that, this nation is growing older and so why run away from that? I think because older people are stereotyped by those in charge as old and that we love what their 90 year old mama's love. It's a problem I guess but not one that makes me disavow the older nature of this fandom. We're cool women. And I do Idol in general makes older folks a fans of these kids - not just Clay.

Yep this applies to me as well. I'm 44 and not a grandma (unless you count my grand pug puppy!) but I do count myself among the "older" fans - and proud of it. The thing about age is, it's really just a state of mind. I always remember my grandmother (who was in her eighties at the time) telling me that she still felt 18 inside. I can relate to that!

Edited May 29, 2007 by luckiest1

[KAndre]

HF, I'm not saying that Clay shouldn't be entitled to more creative freedom - it's just that looking at his career from my eyes, whose family has lots and lots of professional and semi-professional career musicians - complete creative freedom seems almost inversely proportional to commericial success and widespread recognition. My family holds up Ray Charles as an example of how to make it work in the music industry. And Ray could be a right bastard. And music wasn't only his vocation, it was his job. And I've heard so many "artistes" put their 'clever original' stuff out there and I hate it because it doesn't speak to me. And I am a selfish heifer, I like Clay singing stuff that speaks to me, orginals, cover, whatever. I do understand that creative integrity is important to a lot of people (and Clay probably has a lot of interest in it himself) - I know I just can't be bothered with it.

ETA: There's a real difference between should and shouldn't.

[muskifest]

You know, opinions are just that---subjective and personal. I got opinions, you got opinions, all God's (or Goddess's) chilrun got opinions. Sometimes we have facts upon which to base these opinions; sometimes only incomplete information or rumors. The thing is, even when we HAVE facts, not everybody's processing of them is going to equal the same conclusion.

My opinion is that Clay's most recent CD was a surprisingly good treatment of covers. It could've been trite retreads of very (VERY) recognizable tunes, but it isn't. It's unmistakeably Clay Aiken singing those ditties and doing it his way. Gotta love that. Whether he was FORCED to sing THOSE songs or whether he just plain liked how he could make them sound, he did something unique with every damned one of them.

So my opinion is that he's either a damned magician at making lemonade out of lemons....or he just plain likes cheese and knows how to sing it! Either way, he's one of a kind---both in character and in voice, and I love him. And what he brings to my life.

I also think he's hot.

And I also think he's frighteningly smart, so I don't worry too much. However, I do worry about me sometimes. If anybody needs someone to worry about, you can worry about me. I don't have Clay's money or talent or hawtness factor, and my memory's shot. I could use your worrying...hee!

Oh, and KarenEh? Laid back or laid on---I'm with you: whatever he prefers.

ETA: to KAndre's

ETA: There's a real difference between should and shouldn't.

Hmmm... I have an opinion about that. Care to hear it? Great! Let's discuss after a few in Frisco.... :TourExcite: Edited May 29, 2007 by muskifest

[Couch Tomato]

I do understand that creative integrity is important to a lot of people (and Clay probably has a lot of interest in it himself) - I know I just can't be bothered with it.

LOL KAndre..you heartless wench. heee. I'd go and slay the dragons for him if I could. But I can't. Only he can do it. Battles with employers is something we all have to learn to do for our own happiness. People do it all the time in jobs they hate and in jobs they love. I do have the option of just walking off if I don't like something while Clay doesn't because he is under contract.But he also have a few more perks and some high priced lawyers helping him out.

Muski: Say it loud. People can worry about me if they want. In fact I think I need one of those prayer chains right about now.

[FullyFunctional]

LOL KAndre..you heartless wench. heee. I'd go and slay the dragons for him if I could. But I can't. Only he can do it. Battles with employers is something we all have to learn to do for our own happiness. People do it all the time in jobs they hate and in jobs they love. I do have the option of just walking off if I don't like something while Clay doesn't because he is under contract.But he also have a few more perks and some high priced lawyers helping him out.

ITA with this. Most of us have to report to someone else, whether a boss, a record label, shareholders, etc. None of us are immune to creative differences with those "in charge". I know some of the fans want to remove every obstacle from Clay's path, and I think that's dear and sweet, but it's not the real world. And sometimes, creative struggles can benefit an artist in the long run. Some fans seem to assume that the CD Clay didn't make this time around was the Holy Grail of all that is music. Perhaps it wasn't. Perhaps Clive was actually right. I guess none of us really know. I would love to hear what Clay would produce free of any kind of restrictions, and perhaps we someday will, but I can't pine away for what I didn't get when I don't KNOW what I didn't get.

As far as the blue hair thing, embrace it! The creative rebels I went to high school with were among the most successful in our class years later. I was a "punk" type in high school, and my parents were cool with it as long as my grades were good and I wasn't drinking or on drugs. I just liked to look creative.

[Divayenta]

Hey K'andre, my little seester, you rock on your grandma rant.!! I am an old fart! Say it loud and say it proud! FART- Fun And Ready To! Anything! And yeah, I watched Jimmy set his geetar on fire and get off on it at Monterey. Right after the Who blew up the stage!

We're birding in Ocean City, Md. where the birds are plentiful and lovely. My 2 kitties that i rescued from the rest home where they were neglected are settling in. I'm a Mom!

Hugs to all, and this is so good I just had to share:

EVEN GOD ENJOYS A GOOD LAUGH!

There were 3 good arguments that Jesus was Black:

1. He called everyone brother.

2. He liked Gospel.

3. He couldn't get a fair trial.

But then there were 3 equally good arguments that Jesus was Jewish:

1. He went into His Father's business.

2. He lived at home until he was 33.

3. He was sure his Mother was a virgin and his Mother was sure He was

God.

But then there were 3 equally good arguments that Jesus was Italian:

1. He talked with His hands.

2. He had wine with His meals.

3. He used olive oil.

But then there were 3 equally good arguments that Jesus was a

Californian:

1. He never cut His hair.

2. He walked around barefoot all the time.

3. He started a new religion.

But then there were 3 equally good arguments that Jesus was an American

Indian:

1. He was at peace with nature.

2. He ate a lot of fish.

3. He talked about the Great Spirit.

But then there were 3 equally good arguments that Jesus was Irish:

1. He never got married.

2. He was always telling stories.

3. He loved green pastures.

But the most compelling evidence of all - 3 proofs that Jesus was a

woman:

1. He fed a crowd at a moment's notice when there was no food.

2. He kept trying to get a message across to a bunch of men who just

didn't get it.

3. And even when He was dead, He had to get up because there was work

to do. AMEN! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Edited May 29, 2007 by Divayenta

[Gibby]

I'm glad to see another parent who doesn't mind the wild hair! And the funny thing is that my daughter just had her first guitar lesson last night. She wants to play electric guitar, but is first learning on acoustic. She has a lot in common with your son!

Sounds like it! How old is your daughter? My son learned classical acoustic guitar in grades 9 and 10 at school (they have a guitar music course). So when I signed him up for lessons, based off of a recommendation from his classical guitar teacher, I had no idea it was for electric! The first day, I get him in the car, we drive there, we get out, he starts lugging his guitar case, and I realize he's brought an electric rather than an acoustic. I say "why?" and he just gives me a look, and sure enough, once we got within earshot of the guitar school, I could hear the electric guitars wailing!

Hey, do you ever get "the look" from the hair dresser? I usually let my son tell them what he wants, and then I get the "um, is that ok with you?" and a look of astonishment from the hair dresser. I always say that it's his hair. I guess I've just learned to pick my battles. Hmmm, that sounds familiar......

My daughter is 12; she'll be an official teenager on her birthday in August. But she's been practicing teenaged attitudes for some time (thanks to her older sister).

And I totally agree about picking your battles. Hair isn't worth having a battle over; there are much more important priorities in parenting. We've gone to our hairdresser for years, so she doesn't give us the 'look.' But sometimes other people do! I don't give a flying fig what they think.

Hey, FullyFunctional, I like thinking of my daugher as a 'creative rebel!'

ETA: That's hilarious, Divayenta!

Edited May 29, 2007 by Gibby

[playbiller]

Well, I have reached a point, where I think that Clay should be thinking and worrying about us - how about a nice Clay Aiken retirment home for all those old fans. once a year he can come and dance with us. He likes old people, I have seen pictures.

Or the Clay Aiken books for home scholling for the younger kids who are teased at school? It can include the Clay Aken trips abroad (Now we know the Broads take this phrase the wrong way!) and there can be tests asking you to identify which McDonalds has Chickens runing in the back or has goulash on the menu.

Then there can the the Clay Aiken clothing line for men so some fans can love htheir husbands just a little bit more - it would include shoes with false fronts so all men can be 13.5

ETA - Word Fully functional - I had tried to get that point accross and failed - so I stopped.

Edited May 29, 2007 by playbiller

[Couch Tomato]

Fully Functional - well we heard 4 songs from the Holy Grail and we only have to go back to the archives to see what the fandom felt about those at the time. And the struggle for artistic freedom may be what gave us Lover All Alone. So I guess I'm saying WORD.