#18: He has always had the VOICE! But, boy has he ever learned to use his instrument!

[duckyvee]

Not fight, JaMar, discuss, and hopefully gain something from it.

[Couch Tomato]

Hee hee. What a fun catch up today!

We're all revved up (deuces or douches...take your pick) about a few seemingly controversial topics so we can have this not-so-agreeable chat sometime in the near future. It almost sounds like we're looking for something to fight about. Which I think is sorta ironic given the Clayfanmessageboard culture we all know and love.

Not to worry...I think we've discussed every hot topic under the sun just fine. I'm more making fun or our last chat which was almost had a consensus to every question, which was actually kinda different. I just think these questions will have more of a variety of response which I always find fun. We'll be fine...any any fighting will be done with the hertofore mentioned nerf material. OR else KAndre's stilleto will rule...oooh speaking of which..was that you bottle that showed us the ugly ass shoe yesterday. My feel hurt just thinking about it.

[jamar1700]

I'm more making fun or our last chat which was almost had a consensus to every question, which was actually kinda different. I just think these questions will have more of a variety of response which I always find fun.

Oh I know. And I'm not worried.

I just thought it sounded funny especially if you think about someone who doesn't know this place reading it.

[Bookwhore]

I quoted a whole bunch of shit while I was catching up...let's see if I can remember why now.

ETA that sometimes the best thing you can do is to just offer up your opinion once and then walk away from the subject. Hee, that is a hard lesson to learn, though!

Excellent point, luckiest. I don't mind at all if people disagree with me, but if they disagree with me over and over and over again and try to change me over to their way of thinking, that's when I dig in my heels and get stubborn. I'm going to use my bestest buddy JaMar as an example. We've been travelling around the country together chasing Clay for four years and disagree on just about everything. It's really comical. I might comment to her that I love a certain poster on a board, that I agree with everything they say and it'll turn out that she scrolls past that person becoss she disagrees vehemently with their views. My favorite Clay performance is probably her least favorite, her favorite concert is probably one that I didnt enjoy so much. But neither of us tries to force the other one over to our way of thinking, so we enjoy each other's company (we do have some things in common). There's a way to disagree without being overbearing and jamming your opinion down someone's throat.

I really didn't want to get into this, but I like a good discussion, and this one fits the bill. I like it as a chat topic. I totally see your point, cindilu, and I've been there. But I've also been on the other side. It can feel really like a slap when someone (OK, me, but not here, at least not yet) posts that they don't like something for whatever reason, and then there are what feel like a zillion responses about how wonderful that thing is and exactly why.

That's the 'dogpile' effect. Sometimes when I make a post and I'm obviously the only one that feels that way it feels like it's "Dogpile on Teri!" Day. It's a knee-jerk reaction left over from my early days on a board where a certain posse would land on a chosen poster and pick her apart like vultures on a wounded animal. No one likes to be in the minority.

I've had a good friend think that I am commenting on her personal tastes when I say I don't like something she likes for specific reasons. I'm learning to temper my wording because I really never meant anything judgemental at all, just stating my personal opinion. It's just hard to divorce emotion from opinion.

Hmmm......I've known people like that. Perhaps your good friend is hypersensitive, insecure and thin-skinned?

As for name-calling words, I think it's the tone and not the words that makes them offensive at times. People usually know when they are being offensive, I think, and some choose to do it for attention. Their problem, really. There are just some people whose posts I never read, and that solves MY problem.

And this is the bane of mesage boards. No voice inflection, no body language, no facial expression. Tone is almost impossible to discern. We have only a bunch of emoticons coupled with our words to help convey our true feelings. If you think about professional writers, yes, they convey their point without emoticons, but they also edit, edit, edit and edit again, carefully crafting their words for clarity of thought. We move too fast on a message board and don't put that much thought into it. And of course the wrong message gets conveyed and feelings get hurt.

"The big fat goof is dead, dead, dead/ Millions of assholes mourn his death/ I'm gonna steal his body from its place of rest"; or "Fuck Me Dead", their ode to necrophilia: "A pillow in a coffin's just as nice as a bed". But these songs, with their obvious jokes, make it even harder to discern the slightest trace of humour in "Gulls peck flesh from rancid stiffs decaying on the deep blue sea/ Bits and pieces here and there, bomb them far from my country/ Do you, do you want them in your home?/ Do you want them finding you alone?/ They're commies, subhuman subversives/ They're commies/ human living curses...I don't want them around so let them drown/ Bomb the boats and feed the fish."

Ducky, these sound like some lyrics you would find 'uplifting'. Will we be hearing this song on one of your next CD's?

Obviously "spinning balls" and all that is on a whole different level than this. Sorry. I'm a lyrics person, and I can't imagine completely ignoring the lyrics of a song, but even if you can, would you be able to ignore lyrics that express things that would be offensive to you if spoken?

I would like to be able to say, "No", but the truth is yes, I do. I don't do it intentionally, but sometimes a song might have a beautiful melody or a terrific beat and if the lyrics are truly dreadful I can still enjoy the song, even if those lyrics speak to an issue that I am against on a moral level. Like I said, I notice the lyrics of a song last, and they're not really first and foremost in my mind when I'm enjoying a song.

[merrieeee]

I found this from Rainlover at CB:

http://www.bobbydarin.net/bobbyssong1.html

Scroll Down to Dream Lover! Kinda Neat. Of all the people who sang it they chose Clay's version

[muskifest]

I might comment to her that I love a certain poster on a board, that I agree with everything they say and it'll turn out that she scrolls past that person becoss she disagrees vehemently with their views.

All RIGHT! Which one of you doesn't like smut. :glare:

I KNOW you're talking about ME! I just KNOW it! I know that people get sick of all my smut. I just KNOW it!

And you know what I say to that? DO YOU?

Yeah! That's what I say to that.

huh? :thsigns053:

You WEREN'T talking about me?

Oh.

Never mind.

[ldyjocelyn]

I've been reading all day, following the conversation....or trying to at least.

As far as jmh's lyrics question goes, I would agree with Bookwhore:

I would like to be able to say, "No", but the truth is yes, I do. I don't do it intentionally, but sometimes a song might have a beautiful melody or a terrific beat and if the lyrics are truly dreadful I can still enjoy the song, even if those lyrics speak to an issue that I am against on a moral level. Like I said, I notice the lyrics of a song last, and they're not really first and foremost in my mind when I'm enjoying a song.

I think the key is the word "intentional." I've had the thought several times that if Clay decided to sing songs about Devil Worship, would I still follow him? I think my answer would be "yeah" because it's hard to deny the voice.

As for the other discussion today, I was going to write a whole long post...and then merrieee's signature caught my eye:

'Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.' -Dr. Seuss

And I decided that I really didn't need to say much more than that.

[merrieeee]

Thanks ladyj you are a sweetie!!!!

From the CH:

I got an email from a friend of mine in Raleigh who met Clay last night. She went to an event at NC Theater. It was a fund raiser called Dinner on Stage. Quiana was there performing. She sang three songs and brought the house down. Clay introduced her. He talked about how he met her during the AI auditions. My friend sent me a VERY blurry picture. She told Clay she has a friend near Fayetteville who will just die when she sees a picture of her with him. He said "Well we don't want her to DIE!!" He's such a sweety. He doesn't want me to die. She isn't really a fan of his. I'm glad she got to meet him. I don't know what she expected, but she said he was just a sweet southern kid. He didn't seem at all like some big celebrity who you couldn't get close to. She said he was very nice. She said he stayed and mingled after the event and seemed to have a nice time.

Thank you to my sweet friend janscaped for cropping the picture and the use of her photobucket account. Like I said, it's blurry, but I think he looks adorable and happy.

Not the best pic! Dang it I cannot get it to link!!! Aha Got it!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/jan.../IMG_044612.jpg

[Claygasm]

My last word on the subject. I will state what SHOULD have been obvious, but perhaps is not to everyone.

I used the words "banal" and "trite" to described why I - and I alone for I can speak for no one but myself - do not like the lyrics to ATD - a song Clay did not write. It was not meant to describe any poster on this or any other board and was not meant to describe Clay.

I totally respect that others (like the lovely Scarlett) love the song.

And I cannot believe that so much was made out of the fact I don't.

There are quite a few songs Clay has sung I don't like.

But I LOVE Clay. I LOVE his voice, his sense of humor, his heart, his mind and the way he looks in a tight pair of jeans.

IMO, that should count for a whole lot more than not liking the lyrics to a song he has sung.

[Gibby]

Here comes a catch-up post - seems like a few of these thoughts were posted a LONG time ago!

Gibby, I think the Regis total was $175k.

Not sure how we "know" but did read Clay did the best of all celebs.

Thanks!! No surprise that Clay did so well.

I probably am a lyrics person (although I think Ravel's "Bolero" says a lot without any lyrics!), but I'm fairly easy about them. Some of the rap lyrics above do leave me scratching my head.

Oh, yes, Ravel's Bolero! I LURVE it. It's associated with a wonderful memory forever for me. When I was in college, my boyfriend (now my hubby) spent his junior year in France. I visited him over Christmas vacation, and we travelled all over Europe. It was a wonderful trip! And we went to see a movie in France called 'Les En et Les Autres.' It was a wonderful movie, and had a long, majestic, moving dance scene at the end to Ravel's Bolero. I remember the magic and joy of that trip when I hear "Bolero' now.

As far as lyrics - I listen for the melody, arrangement, production and quality of music first. If I'm hooked musically, I really want to know what the lyrics are about. If I like the music AND the lyrics, the song's a huge favorite! If the lyrics are okay, but the music's fantastic, I listen anyway. If the lyrics are fantastic, but the music is so-so? I just can't get into it. If the lyrics are really objectionable - like the rap lyrics Muski posted earlier - it's a deal-breaker.

Heheh. I thought for years it was 'revved up like a douche'.

I spent over 30 years singing along with the do, rae, me song (or whatever it's called) "Tea, a drink with Janet Grey"

I always wondered who the heck "Janet Grey" was!

BWAH!!!

[YSRN]

I think I love you ldyjocelyn.

As usual, I am the odd woman out. Lyrics are the least important part of music to me. Music that touches my soul, that is the be all end all for me. How does it make me feel? Does it make me feel?

This You Tube Pavorotti/James Brown offering gets me on all levels.

Clay's voice does the same, no matter what he sings.

OMG... That gave me chills!!! /pauler

Obviously "spinning balls" and all that is on a whole different level than this. Sorry. I'm a lyrics person, and I can't imagine completely ignoring the lyrics of a song, but even if you can, would you be able to ignore lyrics that express things that would be offensive to you if spoken?

Easily. For one because I'm not a lyrics person at all... not foremost anyway. I do like "message music", but it's not the only kind. Plus, even when I am listening to the lyrics I realize it's an expression of a culture. It's art and music and someone's story. It's like watching a Stephen King movie or something... I don't want to live it out; I'm just watching a story. I don't just watch movies I can align with in some sociopolitical way or something.

We got to Baku on time Sunday night and with our bags...

OMG, KarenEh? It's so cool that you are there and posting too. I really hope you'll share your entire experience with us via photos. I'm so excited about that. No pressure tho. Be safe and enjoy!!!

It probably doesn't help that half the time (especially when I was younger), I had no clue what many of the lyrics actually were. Like I was listening to a Greek song the other day and if I can track it down will download it. Don't have a clue as to what it meant. Just really, really, REALLY like the song. Something about the rhythm of the words just worked for me. Another example of a song that I just loved the rhythm of the words ...

All that too ^^. Rhythm of the words... yeah.

BTW, that isn't Springsteen. It was Manfred Mann, a Brit band. And I always thought it was "wrapped up like a douche" followed by "another boner in the night".

But I still can't stand Dylan. Heh, sorry, KF!

Then there's what I consider throwaway stuff. Because if you tell me you love Pee Wee's humor, I can very easily tell you to your face that that sucks. Yeah, because that sucks. And I know that nobody loves Pee Wee so much that my opinion of him will cause any loss of sleep! OMG, now somebody here is going to love Pee Wee more than life itself. I can feel it!

Hee.

To me, on a message board, saying you love something, is like opening up a poll. You're gonna get a bunch of opinions. I can respect yours and still ::hates:: what you adore. I never mean it personally. And I expect that people reading my posts know that my intent is to speak for myself and only myself. I believe in letting everyone be exactly who they are... mushy, gushy, sweet, bitchy, cynical, lusty, etc. I prefer the melting pot without the eventual melting. I know...that's just me. But just as I don't expect anyone else to change... I don't plan on it either.

I love ATD, Claygasm, and I'm not the least bit offended that you find my taste trite or banal. Hee. Kidding. Seriously, you don't have to defend yourself to me as a fan, or explain yourself or your intentions. You hate the song. Big whoop. You sure don't need to defend your "true fan"ness over it.

It all reminds me of Clay's conversation with his friend about abortion...

"OMG."

"OhMyGod."

"OHHMYYGOD!!!1!"

"Wanna go eat?"

Or however it went... seems normal to me.

ETA... BWAH! That "clack" is hilarious! Thanks, merrieeee!

OOPS... I almost forgot... laughn is out for a couple of days, but wanted me to say hi!! So... HI! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

ETAA... heh, learn something new every day. Thanks ldyj!!! That's what I get for bein' a know-it-all!

[ldyjocelyn]

YSRN -- :F_05BL17blowkiss: right back atcha! Totally agree with everything you said....

except for...

BTW, that isn't Springsteen. It was Manfred Mann, a Brit band.

Springsteen actually wrote the song -- information here. It's just that Manfred Mann who made it into a top 40 hit. Last year I picked up Springsteen's Live in Dublin album (FANTASTIC album, and I'm not even a huge Springsteen fan), and he's got a total rearrangement of the song on it. I didn't even recognize it.

[merrieeee]

I actually knew a member of Manfred Mann! He was going to law school and interning for my friends father. He quit to join the band. He was so memorable that I can't remember which one it was*g* Ah those were the days!

[gbmifan]

Lyrics to me are not important as long as the music arrangement and the vocals are good. A song played here on the radio this summer all the time is Beautiful Girl by Sean Kingston. I turn the station everytime it comes on because I cannot listen to his voice. It is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

I also like ATD but more so the live version then the recorded version. I love watching Clay perform this song.

The way I post, instead of just lurking, I will be a dog walker forever. Manly the reason is I feel that I am not very articulate.

[liney23]

I might comment to her that I love a certain poster on a board, that I agree with everything they say and it'll turn out that she scrolls past that person becoss she disagrees vehemently with their views.

All RIGHT! Which one of you doesn't like smut. :glare:

I KNOW you're talking about ME! I just KNOW it! I know that people get sick of all my smut. I just KNOW it!

And you know what I say to that? DO YOU?

Yeah! That's what I say to that.

huh? :thsigns053:

You WEREN'T talking about me?

Oh.

Never mind.

Muski's been playing in the emoticons...

BWAH... loved your earlier emoticon post, too, muski!

I have no clue whether I'm a lyric person or a melody person or a .... fill in the blank person. I think I go back and forth. Often something about a song will hook me... like the attack of the violins in WISYS and I will listen to the whole song waiting for that part. I am so-so about ATD, but will listen to the whole song to hear the bridge and last verse. Songs I love EVERYTHING about are Clay's Broken Wings and in second place is Everything I do in that Celtic style. Oh, and I Know How The River Feels... GAH!

[keepingfaith]

I actually knew a member of Manfred Mann! He was going to law school and interning for my friends father. He quit to join the band. He was so memorable that I can't remember which one it was*g* Ah those were the days!

Ha! I best remember Manfred Mann for their hit cover of a Dylan song, Quinn The Eskimo (a/k/a The Mighty Quinn).

[Bookwhore]

I might comment to her that I love a certain poster on a board, that I agree with everything they say and it'll turn out that she scrolls past that person becoss she disagrees vehemently with their views.

All RIGHT! Which one of you doesn't like smut. :glare:

I KNOW you're talking about ME! I just KNOW it! I know that people get sick of all my smut. I just KNOW it!

And you know what I say to that? DO YOU?

Yeah! That's what I say to that.

huh? :thsigns053:

You WEREN'T talking about me?

Oh.

Never mind.

Muski I wasn't even referring to this board. Sorry.

Oh, and I LOOOOVE smut! :F_05BL17blowkiss: Bring it on , sister!

[Claygasm]

:F_05BL17blowkiss: to my Twin!!!!

Just because you are one wise woman.

And my Twin! :em0100:

[keepingfaith]

And, darling Muski, I just noticed that I am now a "personal manager" ~~ so I'm wondering which specific part of the personage I'm to manage? I assume, and in the alternative fervently hope, that you are the go-to girl for this. I know it's a humongous awesome responsibility but if requests are accepted, I dig his big hot feet and those long sweet toes -- and everything up from there.

[Jaycee]

I KNOW that for many people lyrics are not paramount, or a factor, or even a deal-breaker. I'm hip to that and totally accept it, honor it, and respect it.

But Dylan not speaking to you hurts my soul. Let's try this ....

Lay lady lay

Lay across my big brass bed

Stay lady stay

Stay while the night is still ahead ....

I have always thought that the lyrics were the most important thing to me. I LOVE Dylan. The thing is, some of his songs don't make any real sense but I love them anyway. I sing along and don't know what the heck I am singing about! So, am I really loving the lyrics or is there something else that is working there? Don't know.

[jamar1700]

Oh, and I LOOOOVE smut! :F_05BL17blowkiss: Bring it on , sister!

SMUT you say?!!! Smut?!!!? OMIGAWD I hatesssss smut*! But I lurve that paisley jacket.

* ott generalization and all present company excluded, of course, especially muski.

[aikim]

To quote American Bandstand....as long as it has a good beat and I can dance to it (and I can understand the lyrics and sing along in the car with the windows rolled up), I am good to go!

Kim

[Couch Tomato]

Oh, and I LOOOOVE smut! :F_05BL17blowkiss: Bring it on , sister!

SMUT you say?!!! Smut?!!!? OMIGAWD I hatesssss smut*! But I lurve that paisley jacket.

* ott generalization and all present company excluded, of course, especially muski.

me too!!

[keepingfaith]

Alrighty now! That picture of Clay was clear enough for me to see the Royal Bangs!!!! Looooong-down-in-his-eyes bangs just like I love them. Hot freakin' bangs! I'll try to calm down now.

[playbiller]

Well, I have mentioned a few times that my inspiration for this topic was a disagreement with Fear. I listened to what she objected to and decided to change the way I state things when my head is working properly. Instead of calling Clay slob, I might comment on his sloppy dress. or a food stain. It is like someone I knew who called her pre-teen daughter a liar all the time, eventually the girl decided telling the truth didn't matter anymore. So the idea is not to comdemn a person with a title, or a box for them to sit in, but to identify the action or condition.

I love ATD, Claygasm, and I'm not the least bit offended that you find my taste trite or banal. Hee. Kidding. Seriously, you don't have to defend yourself to me as a fan, or explain yourself or your intentions. You hate the song. Big whoop. You sure don't need to defend your "true fan"ness over it.

I don't need to agree with people all the time, but I wish that instead of just saying that something is not liked it is explained. I am interested in why people believe lyrics are banal, I liketo try and see things from other people's view points even if I don't state it clearly. I never got symbolism and struggled through my advanced literature classes in college, but the professors could see that I was trying and they knew I was a math major, so they usually cut me some slack for trying. I just really need things laid out in an obvious fashion.