#51: You go on with your bad self, Mr. Aiken

[claytonic]

The alternative is to say nothing. And that would be wrong. I feel dissent with what one thinks is wrong is actually needed.

From what I see, we express ourselves with our votes, it takes a while, bit complaining does further the dialogue. And a lot of the complaints I see do express alternatives.

For the first time in my life, for instance, I have no idea how I want to vote next time.

And politicians do take note of widespread complaints - if only because they want desperately to be reelected.

I am mainly referring to the kinds of emails I get which are full of hate for Obama, they hated him before he was elected and they hate him more now that he is in office. They sit and wait to pounce on every little error he may make or utter. I don't mind constructive criticism because if it can identify errors and offer solutions, that's fantastic. But criticism for the sake of it from extremists who have never held a responsible position in their lives, that's what I am talking about.

[djs111]

I am mainly referring to the kinds of emails I get which are full of hate for Obama, they hated him before he was elected and they hate him more now that he is in office. They sit and wait to pounce on every little error he may make or utter. I don't mind constructive criticism because if it can identify errors and offer solutions, that's fantastic. But criticism for the sake of it from extremists who have never held a responsible position in their lives, that's what I am talking about.

I agree there! But to me those people have not got much to do with politics and other people, just hate. They are not criticizing the government, they have zeroed in on a person, or a party, they have no substance.

What is really crippling is the attitude that all the tenets of the two major parties in the U.S. are totally opposite, on such disparate things as taxes and wars and gay marriage and what to do with the poor or unemployed. No middle ground, it seems.

[liney23]

keeping... thanks!!! Talk about large and in charge! I'd say he is front and center, but he's back and center... He just dominates that picture and looks every inch a STAR!!! I love it and made it my screen saver pronto!

It's weird without my Carrie in the house. She's on a school trip to Wash. DC and won't be back for a week... And an era ended today when my older daughter, Alex, played her last soccer game for the team she's been with forever. She started playing when she was 6 years old...not with THIS group of girls, but with some who ended up on this team with her a few years back. They're all off to college in the fall....

muski... I remember the mixed emotions when we helped my oldest DD move into her dorm room. Even tho we'd had a very rocky relationship during HS, it was a gulp to let her go out on her own. Peaceful, but a glup! And, what was great was that after a semester in college, my intelligence (in her eyes) went from below zero to normal...

IMO, Simon always used Broadway as a gay put-down back in Idol's heyday. I have no idea if he still does. Perhaps he has a clue now. You couldn't pay me to watch the show, even though I know many people who are raving about Adam Lambert. If he makes a go of things after Idol, I may check him out. That's the real test. I think it's silly if sites are "ranking" these kids against prior season's contestants before they even leave the freaking show.

luckiest... I won't watch AI either unless Clay is unexpectedly on it. Can.not stand Ryan anymore and I so agree about the professionalism of the contestants nowadays. I did listen to the singles of the top 3 that Chadonnay has on her blog and must say that while Adam was good, I like Danny the best of the three. Wouldn't buy a cd, but I did like his single.

I was out all day yesterday and really enjoyed catching up. Some very interesting discussion on FCA. Love it!!!

aikim... I agree with your remarks about Simon completely. He just didn't see the commerciality of Clay. He was wrong, but he is shortsighted about some things, IMO.

It's funny, but I saw a different Simon when I watched the YouTubes for Britain's Got Talent. He was actually constructive and not nearly as much a moron as on AI. I think he deliberately pushes the envelope on AI to make people watch the show.

Claytonic... I use idjit all the time, so maybe you stole it from me... s'ok! I didn't patent it and probably stole it from someone else onct upon a time.

I have to go to work today... big proposal due Tuesday afternoon. So, an almost regular workday, except I don't have to be there by 7:30a.m. Whew!!!

[Claymatron]

Good morning, people. Interesting discussion this morning, I no longer watch AI because my DH got tired of me comparing every male singer, negatively, to Clay and I agreed..why waste my time? Whether or not Clay was gay was never an issue for me, but I sincerely believed that he wasn't. When anyone confronts me about his sexuality and why he would still appeal to me, I always say "He's gay, I'm not! He's still the best singer I've ever heard and he's always been gorgeous!"

I know I don't post often but I did post yesterday and no one responded, so I'm going to try again. If no one knows the answer that's fine.

Finally getting all my stuff organized on my new computer. Does anyone know if I can d/l Java safely with IE (Microsoft)? I read somewhere that Microsoft doesn't support Java since Dec. 2007. What does that mean?

Sorry to quote myself, but I know there are several techie types here because I know them personally.

[Couch Tomato]

Bwah..what is this ..the last AI blast until the season ends and returns next year?

Anyhoo...we actually had to bring in the fan from the garage and..(GULP!) turn it ON here in the SF Bay Area today...

Stay Cool Muski. My fan is actually broken thanks to a certain 9 year old - who I am surprised still has fingers.

Good Morning Everyone,

I never thought Simon meant gay with the Broadway comment; but there were fans on the boards who did...

I thought he meant -- you are not commercial and I have NO idea what I will do with you. If he can't smell the money, he'll find a way to diss you. I don't think he's honest about his so called critiques so I learned to ignore them. Not just bad critiques but great critiques for Carmen and other people they wanted to stick around awhile and then horrible critiques when they were ready for them to go because they stuck around too long and just might win the thing. This is what they do and to me that's always been as far as they go. I've never believed they messed with the vote -- they use their influence as much as possible in that way. Would be nothing wrong with that if it were honest but IMO it is not. Paula giving a critique for a song somebody didn't even sing is proof positive of that to me among other things.

Despite my fealing on Simon and the gang I think Idol is a great concept and the show will be around forever and that's due to the kids.

Speaking only for myself...I don't hate Simon, or Kathy Griffin or Kelly Ripa or Conan O'Brian or anyone else were supposed to hate because they "did Clay wrong"..

I have to say I do hate Kathy Griffin and Kelly and Conan but those are about the only three so I don't normally hate people who did Clay wrong. I hate mean, ignorant people. I'm not ultra sensitive when it comes to Clay and I don't hold score cards. And I will not accept criticism cuz I can't stand them or being told ALL of the people I don't like have to do with Clay. But Conan equated Clay with pedo, Kelly Ripa (who I used to like as an actress on AMC) fumed all weekend over some perceived slight and then came and blasted himn when he wasn't there to defend himself. I can't stand people who won't let shit go ..especially when it's little petty non life changing shit. Be a damn professional. I wouldn't look at that airhead again if someone paid me. And Kathy - whatever ..she's a bitch and I can't sand her. heee. But it's not like that if Clay hadn't come along I would have loved her stuff. She ain't funny TO ME. Insult humor is not something I enjoy.

As for Simon...I don't hate him..he's kinda funny IMO but I wouldn't mind the landscape being different in the music world today LOL. I don't really respect his professional opinion for the reasons I mentioned above. He's not creatively honest. So I will go with what I like every time and honestly if I ever do watch Idol again it will be with the sound down when the judges start up.

Heeee.....I bet my definition of hot is different from yours! bad.

DJS I'm sure it is LOL

I still can't get past the numbers in the fandom who still seem to worry that things are "cool" or not. But then, I've never really got the concept. I just know what I like. If others like it, fine; if they don't, also fine; if the hoi polloi think it's wonderful, even better.

me too. I've never felt the need to fit in and I've done just fine.

One of the main reasons I stopped watching the show around the 5th season was I got very bored with the Simon character, and the Ryan character et. al. That is the way they came off to me. As characters in a show. I just didn't have the desire to sit there and watch the same show year after year. Especially since I do just fine finding artists that I like on my own.

I think that's it for me to. Let's not forget the Randy character that wanted to be the Simon character. I think what did it for me was the time they started playing tricks on people who had to go stand with a group who might or might not be elimated. Turned that one guy..forget his name into a step n fetch it and it turned me totally off. I thought it was cruel.

[claytonic]

You know, I do believe that Simon DID see the potential in Clay as a popular recording artist, especially towards the end when Clay's star was shining so brightly... and when he did BOTW Simon said it could win him the competition. Simon also knew that Clay had those extraordinary voting numbers and had never been in the bottom 3.

Also, (correct me if I am wrong), it was immediately announced that BOTH Ruben and Clay would release their albums at the same time, rather than the winner having his album released first, as it the way it is usually done (over here anyway). So to me, it was a huge thumbs up for Clay and they treated him "almost" as if it were a tie. Just the way I saw it, I really felt they were thrilled to potentially have two big stars come out of season 2.

FromClaygary, that reminds me... no one answered my post either, so I will post it again:

And we all have different ideas of what is attractive in a man and personally I preferred the way his face looked when he was on

ANTM

.

ANTM ? I just checked the glossary and it's not there, so someone is very slack ... :o

[FromClaygary]

I know I don't post often but I did post yesterday and no one responded, so I'm going to try again. If no one knows the answer that's fine.

Finally getting all my stuff organized on my new computer. Does anyone know if I can d/l Java safely with IE (Microsoft)? I read somewhere that Microsoft doesn't support Java since Dec. 2007. What does that mean?

Sorry to quote myself, but I know there are several techie types here because I know them personally.

I was waiting for one of the techie types, which I'm definitely NOT as you know...but failing that...I have Java DL'd on my system, on IE and I've never had a problem. You pretty much have to have Java these days to run many I'net applications (as I'm sure you've discovered). And congrats on the new computer!! You must be

[wandacleo]

I like Simon. Most of the time, I think he's right.

It never even crossed my mind that his Broadway comments translated into gay, but it wouldn't have mattered to me if they did because I don't see gay as somehow lessor than straight.

Just different.

[Thankful4Clay]

I was not really on the boards during AI. I checked out Bolt a few times but found it impossible to keep up with. Given that, I thought that Simon meant 'gay' when he said Broadway. I could see the pimping for Ruben without reading the boards. It was so obvious.

I do agree with Simon quite often, especially in the early rounds, but once he has his favorites picked out, he loses perspective.

I can't stand Conan. I can't stand anyone who stoops to using gay jokes as often as Conan does. I also always hated how he made fun of Ruben's weight. I hope Conan crashes and burns when he takes over for Leno. Kelly R. showed her true colors and I can't stand looking at her face. What she did to Clay was unforgivable.

[aikim]

You know, I do believe that Simon DID see the potential in Clay as a popular recording artist, especially towards the end when Clay's star was shining so brightly... and when he did BOTW Simon said it could win him the competition. Simon also knew that Clay had those extraordinary voting numbers and had never been in the bottom 3.

Also, (correct me if I am wrong), it was immediately announced that BOTH Ruben and Clay would release their albums at the same time, rather than the winner having his album released first, as it the way it is usually done (over here anyway). So to me, it was a huge thumbs up for Clay and they treated him "almost" as if it were a tie. Just the way I saw it, I really felt they were thrilled to potentially have two big stars come out of season 2.

I think they expected Clay to win and were honestly shocked when Ruben did and had to basically treat it as a tie because of the backlash from Clay fans...I don't know if Clay had won if they would have promoted him anymore than they did as runner-up...but obviously being a runner-up didn't hurt him.

Even with all the pimping they did for Ruben and making it obvious that he was the chosen one...I still think they expected Clay to win and had to make good when he didn't.

Kim

[jamar1700]

Let's not forget the Randy character that wanted to be the Simon character.

Covered on the et. al. Just didn't want to type it all out.

I think the dichotomy of AI is that they don't have any intention of marketing the artists to the demographic that actually watches & votes on the show. That IMO creates a huge disconnect. I'd have to say that the only people I know, in my RL, that watch and get excited about the show are my age. My kids and their 20 something friends, neither watch the show or care much for the artists it spawns.

--

Like djs...I've also been accused of not liking Groban because he's "competition" for Clay. When the reality is that I didn't like his voice before I ever heard Clay's. I don't like operatic voices. Never have....never will.

Ditto for comedians who chose to make fun of other people. I prefer a comedian who can take their own everyday life and make it funny. Jim Gaffigan [Hot Pockets!] comes to mind.

I remember one of my first days on a Clay board reading about how awful the most recent Leno joke was. And then somebody posted that they hated the Clay joke but thought the Hillary stuff he did was hysterical. A true WTF? moment for me.

---

ANTM

America's Next Top Model.

[ldyjocelyn]

jamar, have you seen Jim Gaffigan's latest routine, on BACON? Fantastic stuff... BACON is here!

I think, for me -- I don't hate ANYONE that's been mentioned here. I also just don't CARE all that much about any of them either. Honestly, I've seen both Kathy G and Conan do some really funny stuff -- but unfortunately, their pattern tends toward the hateful in their comedy, and so I just kind of ignore them most of the time. Simon? He's all over the map for me; some of the stuff I think he's spot on, others, not so much. But again, I really don't seem to care that much. I think his "Broadway" comments were meant pretty much as KAndre described -- even if Clay was almost given a "co-title" of AI that year, I really think Simon didn't quite know how to market him. Clay never fit into a marketing mold (still doesn't really, IMO), and I think that frustrates record executives.

But I do see where aikim is coming from as well. I hold suspicions that if Kathy G. had NEVER said one word about Clay, there would be people in the fandom who would think she is hilarious -- but as soon as the first name calling for Clay hit, all bets were off. Same with the rest of the names mentioned. It does seem like "holding grudges" to me, and that really turns me off.

I have never gotten the "you must only like Clay if you are a fan" mentality. Having said that, I do like some of Groban's stuff, and almost always feel like people are looking at me like I've got two heads when I admit to it. The same with Buble (whom I actually like even more, but then I've always loved "Rat Pack" type of music). I think the key is to not take it all so personally. Like who you like, don't like who you don't like, but give everyone else the freedom to choose those same things. Even if they don't like Clay.

[djs111]

jamar, have you seen Jim Gaffigan's latest routine, on BACON? Fantastic stuff... BACON is here!

I am not jamar, but Gaffigan's BACON routine is hysterical!

Dane Cook has an uninterrupted special on Comedy Channel tonight at 10 - I think he is funny.

I am still laughing at myself for feeling so terrible about his half-brother or whatever stealing millions of dollars from him. Yes, it is bad, but my sister would be hard-put to be able to steal $300 from ME, it sorta CMSU, the scale of it.

I don't know if actual hate is involved with my feelings for, say, Conan. Distaste and immediate channel-changing does occur, and I would not care to share a meal with him. Not that the opportunity would come up.

Buble - he has a pleasantly even voice, and I love the songs he sings. But - for me, he is a pale imitation of Sinatra. No resonance or darkness or something, hard to explain. Sort of like he is the Jack Jones of this generation of that genre - pleasant, very successful, not The Star.

So I just listen to Sinatra.

Good that we agree to disagree, eh?

yep!!!!!

I hear ya about the later years - and that ridiculous (IMO) scooby-dooby-doo in Strangers in the Night caused me to just not ever listen to it. Plus daughter Nancy can't carry a tune in a big old bucket.

But I adore the early Sinatra. And Dean Martin. Never cared for Sammy Davis Jr., too overwrought for me.

I wish Bobby Darin was still with us; I loved him as much as I loved Sinatra.

[ldyjocelyn]

And djs, I always disliked Sinatra -- thought his stylings were pretty overwrought, IMO. But then, I almost always associate Sinatra with his later years. Ask me about Buble again when HE hits his 60's.

Good that we agree to disagree, eh?

[jamar1700]

jamar, have you seen Jim Gaffigan's latest routine, on BACON? Fantastic stuff... BACON is here!

I find Jim hysterical no matter what routine it is.

My favorite line in that clip...

Pillow jokes? Really? He's doing pillow jokes?

I didn't realize he was going to be so "edgy" ....

My point exactly. At one point in his career he WAS told he should "edge" it up and start using more raw language, drop a few f-bombs here and there.

He refused.

Just cuz.

Love him.

And yes, I know he and Conan are great friends. Conan could take some lessons, IMO.

---

*swoon* I love that new UM clip.

And I'm also loving Clay's latest answers on the OFC. OMG. How can he say he sucks at Math?

[aikim]

Clay answered some more questions...starting with post 5973...I truly love a smart man!

Kim

[keepingfaith]

I know we all love to hate Simon, but without Simon, the music landscape, as it is today, would look very different. I may not always like him, but I always respect his professional opinion.

I don't think Simon Cowell is solely responsible for the music landscape today -- but to the extent he is, I don't think that's anything to be proud of. The quality of popular music is not only derivative, but derivative of an uninspired model. But of course, JMO.

Hell, I agree with Simon most of the time - but when I think he's wrong, it's usually spectacular...and frankly his whole schtick is to be polarizing and OTT and to get those reactions from viewers. I always thought in the context of AI and was they were looking for (especially in the early seasons) the Broadway thing was both a gay implication and a way of saying noncommercial. Compared to general pop stardom, Broadway stardom currently is very much a niche market - and Broadway, at least in the States has always been something of a gay haven. And frankly Simon has never claimed to be looking for an artist - he's always been looking for someone with commercial success. Simon is very successful in a very derivative way (can't stand Il Divo but loved Amici Forever). But derivative works in this culture.

Kathy Griffin I disliked long before Clay (she was in some TV show with Brooke Shields I think). She reminds me too much of that blond bitch who makes a living putting people down and has had enough plastic surgery to make 15 million Barbies, Joan Rivers.

I still can't get past the numbers in the fandom who still seem to worry that things are "cool" or not. But then, I've never really got the concept. I just know what I like. If others like it, fine; if they don't, also fine; if the hoi polloi think it's wonderful, even better.

I agree -- especially when he's wrong he's spectacularly wrong. Yesterday I watched the video of Adam Lambert's performance of One -- and Simon swooned and drooled. Word to Simon: It SUCKED! Regarding Broadway, I listen to Adam and think Broadway - and nothing to do with gay, but how theatrical he is on stage.

Having not been on the boards until 2006, I cannot remember ever thinking Clay was gay -- or not gay -- during Season 2. I just didn't think about his sexuality at all. I did consciously think he was a kind, gentle spirit with a gifted voice -- and I was always amazed that he performed without any apparent self-consciousness. The Broadway comment I didn't understand other than Simon couldn't believe Clay would be a popular recording artist because he didn't LOOK the part -- and Simon is all about the image and money in his pocket. But associating Broadway with gay didn't happen in my head. In fact, I didn't understand why Clay made the little face when Simon said that! I rarely agree that ignorance is bliss -- but sometimes it comes in handy.

And about cool -- if I like it, it's cool! I assumed this was true for everyone. "Cool" and "mass popularity" are not synonyms in my dictionary, in fact they are often just the opposite.

[FromClaygary]

Awww, I loved ALL of his answers....and the math one! Whew!! He may have Googled it, but I bet he laughs when fans try to stump him with brain teasers. I notice he answers most of them. Great for the young ones doing their homework!

Re the E! True thing he's talking about.....????????.....I don't THINK I know about that. Can anyone enlighten me? Is it vaulted anywhere, does anyone know?

NM, found it the second go-round. The tree at the vault really escapes me sometimes.

[ldyjocelyn]

FromCG, I'm not sure if anyone vaulted the E! True Hollywood story thing -- it originally aired in December 2008. It included interviews with a certain pond scum frog and a certain book "author" (if you can call her that). The parts of the show that didn't include those two were not too bad (considering it was E!), but most of it was pretty lame.

[aikim]

I am pretty sure it was all vaulted except for certain parts.

Kim

[luckiest1]

I know I don't post often but I did post yesterday and no one responded, so I'm going to try again. If no one knows the answer that's fine.

Finally getting all my stuff organized on my new computer. Does anyone know if I can d/l Java safely with IE (Microsoft)? I read somewhere that Microsoft doesn't support Java since Dec. 2007. What does that mean?

Sorry to quote myself, but I know there are several techie types here because I know them personally.

Hee, you talking to me? I'm embarrassed to say I didn't even realize that Microsoft no longer supported Java....I know that I regularly get Java update notifications and I always say yes to them, so I'd say go for it.

More OFC answers and new UM clack? Thanks for the heads up!

[treenuts]

kf wrote:

And about cool -- if I like it, it's cool! I assumed this was true for everyone. "Cool" and "mass popularity" are not synonyms in my dictionary, in fact they are often just the opposite.

I quite agree with you!

It's often how I see the terms "stylish" and "trendy" in contrast to one another.

Such as, trendy is used to show current or fashionable or even cutting edge, it does not mean "good" or "special" at all to me. It's just what others are dictating as current or cool. For now.

While stylish or style is more often meant as an individual expression or unique quality or flare. This to me is the true goal one should aspire to. To be unique, true to one's own individuality, talent or self expressiveness. THIS is what I find special and rare. THIS is how I see Clay Aiken. Not copying anyone else's style or comparing himself to anyone else or even trying to look or sound trendy/current. Just true to himself. Perhaps that is why it has always been so hard to label him or fit him into that box...because it did't exist until Clay created his own!

Clay is the ultimate Clay Aiken.

Of course JMO

[goldarngirl]

I know I don't post often but I did post yesterday and no one responded, so I'm going to try again. If no one knows the answer that's fine.

Finally getting all my stuff organized on my new computer. Does anyone know if I can d/l Java safely with IE (Microsoft)? I read somewhere that Microsoft doesn't support Java since Dec. 2007. What does that mean?

Sorry to quote myself, but I know there are several techie types here because I know them personally.

Hee, you talking to me? I'm embarrassed to say I didn't even realize that Microsoft no longer supported Java....I know that I regularly get Java update notifications and I always say yes to them, so I'd say go for it.

More OFC answers and new UM clack? Thanks for the heads up!

Sorry about this. I missed your post and for those who know how I read the boards, they will understand how that happened.

I too have never had any trouble with java AND in fact there are some sites that you can't read without it. So I would go for it also.

I am pretty sure it was all vaulted except for certain parts.

Kim

There are two different sets in the vault. One edited, and one unedited.

[luckiest1]

Based on Clay's answer to the "E! True Hollywood" question, can I just say how glad I am that I never bothered to download or watch it? (Nauseating....)

ETA: That new UM clip is fabulous! Really gives a better sense of the atmosphere and energy in the room. What a beautiful rendition!

[spikesmom]

Before becoming a Clay fan, I never really gave much thought to the "comedians" and their put down jokes, getting laughs at the expense of celebrities/real people... unfortunately, I probably did laugh at some of it... never really searched any of them out, I would have seen them on things like Leno, Letterman... never watched Conan... didn't particularly find Kathy G. funny - I think she was more shrewish if anything...

Since becoming a Clay fan, and not liking the fact that he had become the butt of many jokes, it made me take stock... I realized that if I didn't like it when Clay was the joke, then I shouldn't like it about anyone else either... I don't think much of those comedians who use real people to get laughs... I imagine there's a fine line there, but basically I don't find much humor in it...

I guess I don't hate people like Kathy G., Conan, Ripa but I don't have much use for them either so I just avoid them. My time is valuable so I don't waste it on them.

I do enjoy comedians who can actually make you laugh without making fun of specific people/groups of people... I mean, a really good comedian (or writer) can do it - it's more challenging perhaps but I also think it says more about their character that they don't go for the cheap joke/shot...

ldyj - thanks for the clip of Jeff G.... hadn't heard of him before - I must live in a bubble... but the bacon bit was funny... took a minute to watch a couple others... much more to my liking...

And I love reading Clay's answers at the OFC! It's a bright spot in the day when I see that he's back answering questions! Makes me smile every time...