#5 (plus #6 & #7) - "Well....the weather outside is frightful...but the man is so delightful..."

[ldyjocelyn]

Did I miss the confirmation about Brett returning home?

It's so much fun to wake up to fresh, unexpected clack. He positively radiated JOY during this performance, and simply -- it's infectious. Couldn't hear worth squat, but that's OK -- I could see it in his eyes. *g* And his teeth. *g*

And I'm sooooooo happy that he's proving once again that he means what he says and he walks his talk. He SAID he was going to take his life back and that's what he's doing. Think about it--on Kimmel for his 'traditional' Valentine's show, cross-country redeye plane trip to follow his 'other' heart and do good for 'the cause', back to Raleigh to welcome his brother home safely from war, then on stage singing with a musician he admires singing a type of music he grew up loving.

And I really do love that about him To me, he has tried to stay as true to himself as he can, and I think this week proved that.

I totally understand and respect that sentiment. That is the reason too why I don't really listen to them. My friends used to share them with me and there are a lot of really lovely songs with great lyrics...then it just gets a bit too much so I no longer listen. But I do love it when Clay sings spiritual songs. It simply transports him to another space.

I totally understand and respect the sentiment as well. I am a Christian -- one who rarely, if ever, listens to CCM music. I'm also one that doesn't like it when someone tries to convince me that my religion is wrong, even if they are also Christians. Simply put -- I'm secure in what I believe in. Claygasm, from what I've read here today...I think you are as well. I honestly believe that Clay would have no problem with that viewpoint. More on this later....

I do believe we will be hearing some CCM like songs from him... he may even bring out a full CD of spiritual songs in a few years...but I doubt he would leave pop music. I know he likes singing a variety of music and I don't think he wants to preach to us. He just wants to express his spirituality

Is it OK if I use "AMEN" here? I know to many his YWT was a "beat your head with his religion." I guess I never really felt that way, just because of what I said earlier, I'm secure in my beliefs. If Clay had come out with a song about Devil worship, and started in with "forcefeeding" that to me -- I honestly believe I would have shrugged it off as well. Truly. Anyway, I just never felt like I was being preached at....but I can understand those who did.

I couldn't understand one word either of them sang, but I'm so happy we have Scclack at all. I was enjoying watching the Dad (or pastor?) types out in the audience in their suits and ties rawking out with the kids.

That cracked me up as well. Definitely not a typical Clay Aiken show audience.

So who had Clay sings CCM on their list of things to make heads eplode. I can't wait to see this clack...And I really want to hear Clay sing The Blood just once before I die. I sang that song a million times in the church choir growing up and I want to hear "grown up" Cay sing it.

Oh yes. That song gets me in the gut, every single time I hear it. And it is the same with me for both YWT and GN. There is simply something about the passion he feels for these types of songs, and it touches me. When I'm having a hard time, any of those songs will put me in a much better frame of mind.

I have always felt he did the Christmas concerts because he does love singing to and about his God and Christmas concerts are not as polarizing as CCM concerts. He can sing very religious songs to a much wider audience - an audience that isn't only made up of the choir. I think it renews him and lifts him spiritually. So if one day he wanted to do it with Christian music, he should. Just as long as that isn't the only path he chooses to follow.

I've ALWAYS said that about his Christmas shows. Between his loving to tour, and the fact that I see it as a "witnessing" thing for him (but not as overtly as YWT *g*), and I predict he'll do Christmas shows from now until he retires. In 2040.

He has had a good week. He appeared on Kimmel - which I would guess is his favorite show to appear on - and he did his presidenial committee thing and his brother is safe at home for at least a little while, he got to sing with someone he has followed since he was young and who is clearly one of his favorites and, oh yeah, he got his teeth fixed so they glow in the dark!

I love it that Clay had a week like this. And I hope he has many, many more that are filled with such happy and fulfilling times!

I simply love that he seems happy in this clip, and seemed happy the entire week. Good for him.

I understand where you are coming from Claygasm but I guess as someone who usually likes soul music, I'm used ot it. When you go to a Luther or Patty Labelle concert, a gospel song getting thrown in is more likely than not so I don't think of it as a conversion type or out of place thing when Clay sings CCM. I guess when pop stars does some exotic religion type thing do people care or is it just christianity. I don't know. It's really funny because although I love gospel, CCM is not something I"m familiar with at all but I do love All About Love, Good News, You Were There -- all the songs Clay introduced me to. Still haven't set foot in a church even though I'm open to enjoying his singing.

In my mind, it's not even soul music -- that type of song wouldn't be out of place in a country music concert either. I think your question is valid about the placement of religion in a pop concert. Madonna got some grief for espousing the Kabballah (sp?) during her last tour, didn't she? Or was that OK, because that was a "hip, now" religion? It has always saddened me that Christianity is considered such a "right wing" commodity, and also a "rigid, hard" commodity. I personally think I'm not like either of those things at all. I hope not, anyway.

Claygasm, I want to thank you for sharing your viewpoints with us here. When I joined up with this fandom over 3 years ago, one of the things I learned about message boards was that not everyone was the same...far from it. It took me a while to realize that I was sharing viewpoints about Clay with people who were non-white, non-Christian, and once in a while, non-female. (There are other "nons" there too...it would just take too much time to list them all...) It really opened up my world to realize that. I also appreciate your attitude that if Clay does do a CCM album, that you would let him go for a while, as much as it would pain you. That is something hard to admit, I believe. {{{{{{{{{CG}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

[muskifest]

I think Clay's voice on YWT is incredibly wonderful. I think the song is simply beautiful. The melody is haunting and Clay makes me feel something when he sings it.

I was so very turned off, however, by the light and pyrotechnics display that accompanied the lovely music and singing during NAT. Totally. Now I grew up in the Southern Baptist church in a tiny North Carolina town and believe me, hymns were the songs I knew best for a long, long time. Loved them. Loved singing them in church. And even though I've moved on from any organized school of religious thought, the MUSIC of religion---whatever it might be---is still beautiful to me.

The swirling clouds around the crosses (that I swear looked like burning crosses to me), the Bible and stained glass, the whole SPECTACULAR!!!! visual effects---all were annoying and distracting to me, to say the least; and downright offensive and embarassingly hokey, to be more opinionated. YWT is such a powerful song---both the melody and the lyrics---that any message it seeks to deliver would have been better served by simply having Clay and his pure voice and sincere heart present it.

I always said that having a single light shining on Clay as he sang that song---all the truth of his convictions shining in his face on the Jumbotrons---would have been exponentially more effective than all the amateurish special effects machinery. My opinion, of course.

Be that as it may, the man loves him some contemporary Christian music and he can SANG the schiznitz out of it, too, so it's all good. Anything that can make him a happy man like he obviously was on that stage with SCC is all right in my book. :00000442:

[Ansamcw]

Claygasm...I guess YWT is one topic we will agree to disagree. I really didn't see it as more preaching because the words indicate that it was a direct conversation of Clay to his God. He was giving thanks for the role God had in his life. It may have biblical referrences but the message was not...you have to take Jesus into your life or you are doom, those kind of CCM songs I really have a problem with, or those songs that seem to tell people what is a sin and not. But if its a personal conversation between the artist and his God I am all for that. Besides, I just love the melody of YWT...I love how he sings that. It will always be in my favorites Clay CD.

About having a CCm song mixed in a pop CD...how did U2 do it? I am not really familiar with them and maybe ldyjocelyn can explain further...but aren't they considered to have a lot of CCM songs or are they considered spiritual songs??? As long as the song is not about making non christians feel guilty or making Christians superior cos they are the only ones going to be saved...I don't mind. If he does happen to put in a song that had that theme...skip button will be my friend and I admit I will be a bit disappointed in him

If Clay puts out a CCM CD I will buy it to support him..listening to it would depend on the music. If its pretty much like the other CCMs he has sung before (except for In Not of....do not like that song) like YWT, GN and AAL...then I will be very very excited about that.

Yup the pods can't even consider the possiblity that a loT of the songs in the rejected CD were CCM or had CCM leanings...

[playbiller]

Well, maybe it is that no one ever tried to shove religion down my throat, comeing from a less than religious family, with very religious relatives, it was kind of an "eh" moment for me. So I can ignore or take what I see as art. Of course , I don't live in the south or in any great religious area, which always helps with tolerance. Recently, one of my friends seems to have gone over the top and keeps trying to reform me, hence, I avoid her as much as possible. I have other friends. Apparently there are Catholic cults - who knew?

I do know there are some fans that were upset about Clay coming out iwth a Christmas album, really up-set. For some reason mentioning that sooner or later a lot of people do one did not seem to help. I hear the Ruben wants to come out with one this year, along with another mainstream album (a little ambitious considering his usual albums delays). I am hoping that AIW gets rereleased next year, too good to just be among fans.

On the positive side, it makes me hppy to see Clay have fun, he really does miss us, having to crash someone else's concert. I guess he is probably frustrated about not touring soon, I think he had a blast in the last JNaT.

[bottlecap]

I try to stay out of discussions of religion and politics, because I'm probably not in a position to change anyone else's mind or to have my mind changed. I think many people experience ebbs and flows in their spiritual journey over time, but if I ever felt that Clay abandoned his faith or felt the need to hide it or dilute it in some way because of the business he is in, it would break my heart.

I think Clay is closer to Steven Curtis Chapman stylistically than he is to say, Trent Reznor, and I wonder if some fans think that any whiff of CCM around Clay means he's stepping further away from the "Rawker Dude" box that they want to put him in.

I think I could listen to about any type of music that Clay created (even hip-hop) except for hard-core Country. I can't stand nasally, twangy voices, and the sound of a slide guitar is like nails on a chalkboard to me. Besides, I'm not sure Clay could convincingly pull of the big belt buckle and cowboy hat look...

ldyj, there are messages on Brett's myspace page that I believe reference him being back home - I would assume that means wherever he is stationed - Camp LaJuene? maybe... He seems to have a bunch of buddies that want to go drinking with him since he's turned 21.

:bier:

[muskifest]

Agreed, playbiller...Clay is a happy creature when he's performing on a stage. And he makes a lot of people happy, too, when he's doing it!

I was thinking just how wonderfully varied Clay's life is---how blessed he really must feel. He can be on talk shows, delighting with his wit and intelligence. He can be a spokesperson for things he believes in and is respected enough to carry weight with his words. He can sing off the cuff from candy hearts or kill millions with a look through a camera lens while rockin' out and delivering glory notes effortlessly. He can travel around the world and make a difference. He can drive down I40 to sing about his God with an idol of his own. He can make sure his mom and brother will never want financially for the rest of their lives. He can offer his home to share with friends.

He can take the money he's made from all his work to do something for himself---most recently, to enhance his physical appearance, to change an aspect of his 'outside' that evidently is something he wanted to change.

I am so in love with this man---the individual that he is. How anybody can talk about him as if he were only a pawn being cruelly manipulated by everyone else 'in the business', as if he were a freakin' rutterless sailboat in a stormy sea of heartless pirates, as if he were a sniveling eunich at the mercy of all the 'big boys' who can do with him as they choose...

What garbage. MY titanium balled, taking-his-life-into-his-own-big hands, BLINDingly white-toothed hunka talent and heart and hawtness?

SHEEE----IT.

Edited February 18, 2007 by muskifest

[ldyjocelyn]

About having a CCm song mixed in a pop CD...how did U2 do it? I am not really familiar with them and maybe ldyjocelyn can explain further...but aren't they considered to have a lot of CCM songs or are they considered spiritual songs??? As long as the song is not about making non christians feel guilty or making Christians superior cos they are the only ones going to be saved...I don't mind. If he does happen to put in a song that had that theme...skip button will be my friend and I admit I will be a bit disappointed in him

You rang? For U2, I would say that they started off having much more overt religious/God songs on their CD's, but generally only one or two at most. This was most true early on in their career, when three of the four members went to Bible study pretty regularly. One of my early favorites by them, in fact, has its lyrics based in the Bible. The song is called "40", based on Psalm 40. "I will sing, sing a new song...." They still had that pretty much in place by the time "The Joshua Tree" took off, especially with "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For," with its lyric "I believe in the Kingdom come, when all the colors bleed into one...." From what I understand, they still do believe, but it's not nearly overt anymore. I would definitely say that their vibe is much more "spiritual" than overt.

Besides, I'm not sure Clay could convincingly pull of the big belt buckle and cowboy hat look...

I dunno...I'd like to see him try it. With ONLY the big belt buckle and the cowboy hat.

ldyj, there are messages on Brett's myspace page that I believe reference him being back home - I would assume that means wherever he is stationed - Camp LaJuene? maybe... He seems to have a bunch of buddies that want to go drinking with him since he's turned 21. :bier:

Thanks for the confirmation. Glad he is home safely again, I pray that he doesn't have to go back again.

[Claygasm]

The swirling clouds around the crosses (that I swear looked like burning crosses to me), the Bible and stained glass, the whole SPECTACULAR!!!! visual effects---all were annoying and distracting to me, to say the least; and downright offensive and embarassingly hokey, to be more opinionated. YWT is such a powerful song---both the melody and the lyrics---that any message it seeks to deliver would have been better served by simply having Clay and his pure voice and sincere heart present it.

I always said that having a single light shining on Clay as he sang that song---all the truth of his convictions shining in his face on the Jumbotrons---would have been exponentially more effective than all the amateurish special effects machinery. My opinion, of course.

See, this is key for me. I often wonder if I would have felt as uncomfortable with YWT is he had just sung the song without all the two bit evangelist trappings. I always thought it was the images and the white suits and the rising and descending that made it seem more like he was trying to convert the heathens. I don't know. I still would have felt uncomforatble - and it seemed odd to go from Rosanna to YWT, but perhaps if he had just sung it.......

Religious songs at Christmas don't bother me because Christmas, after all, is supposedly a Christian holiday. You expect Christian themed music at Christmas. I think that is the difference to me. YWT just did not seem to fit and when you added in those damn images, well, I almost felt as if Clay decided to try and convert the heathens in his audience by sneaking it in. Now, I KNOW THAT WAS NOT HIS INTENT. But that's how it felt to me.

The whole YWT controversary nearly did in my fandom for many reasons, including the fact that when I made comments about it on another board, an entire thread was started to rip me to shreads. It was hurtful - very hurtful. I had tickets to go to the Greensboro NAT concert and I almost didn't go I was so hurt. So its kind of a sore point with me.

I know Clay loves this music and some hymns are very beautiful. I even loved his JIL with Ruben. I may have even been able to appreciate YWT more - despite its placement in a pop concert - if he had just been singing with just a single spolight on him and his face on the jumbotrons (and if not, I could have just appreciated his face on the jumbotrons....). I choose to believe that in retrospct Clay realizes he made a mistake if not with the inclusion of YWT then at least with its staging.

Bottle, you said you thought I must be secure in what I believe. Actually I am far from it, but I am secure in what I DON'T believe. And I am very sensitive about people trying to shove religion - any religion - down my throat. I once had a "friend" who was a born again Christian who told me, just months after my grandmother had died, that she was going to hell because she was Jewish! To me, YWT seemed like Clay was trying to shove his beliefs down my throat. That and its inclusion in a pop concert is what bothered me the most.

I love Clay and I love that he walks the walk and talks the talk. I believe while he believes what he believes he doesn't condemn others for believing something different and its maybe that belief that makes me doubt he will ever become just a CCM artist. But I have to admit I get very nervous whenever this subject comes up.

The only thing, though, that TRULY bothered me about that appearance last night was how baggy his jeans were! What happened to the deliciously fitting jeans of Kimmel??? Is he going to start wearing baggy jeans again??? Now that would be a tragedy!!

ETA:

MY titanium balled, taking his life into his big hands, BLINDingly white-toothed hunka talent and heart and hawtness

Now THAT would make a great thread title!

Edited February 18, 2007 by Claygasm

[muskifest]

What a lovely seque, Claygasm, into my post...funny thing is that I had copied it from ncgurrrl on Ch and brought it over here but saw that you'd posted and read it first before pasting the quote here...

heh

ETA baggy seated jeans are a problem for Clay and always will be unless he has them tailored to fit or finds a brand that works for him. He is super slim hipped, well endowed with a high firm ass. He needs generous room in the front if he wants to move easily and not frighten the children. That need for room tends to make the jeans baggy in the back. He has had a couple of pair of jeans that fit well but not many. Those that do are usually cut low on his hips and might be uncomfortably tight especially when he is "happy."

Fine smut there....

Edited February 18, 2007 by muskifest

[bottlecap]

I think I had another point I was going to make, but I read the jeans post and my eyes rolled back in my head and I might have moaned a bit and I forgot what I was gonna say...

[Couch Tomato]

Muski...Clay's presentation of the song...well that was just clay being subtle. heee.

[Ansamcw]

I think I understand why people had such a bad reaction to YWT...yet now seem to be more accepting of Clay singing CCM type songs. That was just his first SOLO tour...we were still getting to know him. We haven't read LTS yet and the fact that he is Southern Baptist in a time when the Religious Right seem to want to take over the government gave a lot of people the heebie jeebies....I think for some seeing the visuals just seem like their worse fear was actually happening...he is going to use his music to convert people!! I think that is where the anger was coming from...its like some people felt betrayed.

But now...we know him more. We read his book...we have heard him speak about his religion and we know that he is more tolerant than a lot of people...it is easier to enjoy his spirituality without feeling threatened.

About the YWT staging...I think because I never saw the show live and only saw clack...I never minded the flying crosses and bibles. I did like their blocking and lighting. I thought it was very dramatic. The video in the sides may have been OTT if seen in person.

I really wouldn't be surprised if we get another dramatic staging for a spiritual song in the future...the original GN was pretty dramatic too. I think he will just be more effective next time and be better with the subtleties.

(((Claygasm))) sorry you had such a lousy time during the YWT fiasco...

[playbiller]

I should be most offended by Clay, after all he had never met a person like me, said how shocked he was to meet an atheist. It was almost like we were slinking in our own underground or something.

But I came for the voice and support a lot of people I disagree with. I think Clay just has too many fans that need him to be what they want him to be. Unfortunately, it is impossible, since most of those things are contradictory.

[Divayenta]

Hi all. Living with paradox is what I do. I see all sides at times. Claygasm, I surely understand your feelings of exclusion with YWT. When I first heard it, I loved the music and his voice. I thought the presentation was OTT for a pop concert. I think singing your heart out about your spiritual beliefs without all the props IS much more moving. It happens all the time in country music. Think "Jesus Take The Wheel" which I love. Clay's presentationof YWT reminded me of that song by Neil Diamond "Dr. Love's Travelling Salvation Show"(?) but I FLOVE the melody and how he sings it. I swooned over the presentation and sound of "Good News"- my favorite song in that tour.

I grew up culturally Jewish, but with zilch religion. My parents went to the Ethical Culture Society where we learned about ALL religions. And since my Dad was German we celebrated Christmas , tree and all (but non-religiously).

I consider myself a highly spiritual person but I hate it too, when I sense something is being shoved down my throat. I think for those of us who grew up in the 50's and 60's who had to pray in public school who weren't conventionally religious it was alienating and we felt excluded somehow. Just years ago, when hubby was still in the Army, the chaplain was praying to Jesus at public events when there were folk of many religions present. That was just plain ignorant, but it pushes that button.

Hee, Roy Rogers and Dale Evans were the guest speakers of honor at my high school graduation in California. Dale:" And now for a non-denominational prayer, our Lord , Jesus in Heaven......" See, that's fine, but again many felt excluded.

I really never figured out what Clay meant when he said in his book that he hopes all the good folks of different religions get to heaven (or something like that) but it's not HIS job to tell them that they won't. That was a big WTF for me. I know there are multiple interpretations of this statement.

I'm over it now. I love him whatever he believes because I am comfortable in my beliefs and I realize he is who HE is.

WORD to ansa's post about it's all good unless you're getting the "Take Christ as Savior or You'll Roast" message.

Edited February 18, 2007 by Divayenta

[playbiller]

The Amazing race is on tonight! no one told me it was tonight!!!!

Mumble. mumble - must start laundry and get dinner

[ldyjocelyn]

The Amazing race is on tonight! no one told me it was tonight!!!!

Mumble. mumble - must start laundry and get dinner

Geez, do we have to remind you on EVERYTHING?!?!?!? :medium-smiley-070:

I'll be there with bells and whistles on!

Claygasm, I am terribly upset at what you went through over YWT. Tolerance is a two way street, and it makes me mad when people cannot see that.

[georgiaclay]

Evening,

Everybody gave such great remarks. I happened to love YWT as I too am a christian, but I don't go in for the "accept Jesus or you toast" shoveling down peoples throats. I have reached the great old age of 44 realizing that I can "witness" in my way (which is not the shoveling theory), but just to lead by example. I try my best to be a "good person" and people are going to think what they want to think, so go ahead and let them. I don't want people trying to indocterinate me into their way of thinking, so essentially I am saying that I am not going to do the same thing.

I think I lost my train of thought back there somewhere. Oh yeah, if Clay puts out a CC album, I will most likely support it and buy the album. I have a number of gospel albums, some contemporary, some Church of God and I also have some nonCC albums which I like to, think southern rock and roll, a little metal. I like pretty much everything except for opera and chamber music. Puts me both to sleep.

Anyway that is my take on it. By the way, Clay sure can fill out a pair of jeans real well.

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

[playbiller]

Do you have to remind me of everything - why yes, yes, you do. I have a mind like a steel sieve.

Actually,l rushed to do everything andthe show is not on, they are doing an interview of Chesney???

[ldyjocelyn]

Golf pushed everything back about a half hour. The show is starting now!

[KAndre]

Oh man, the YWT debate - I have admit the big thing that bothered me was some's decidedly OTT take on the "evilness" of Christianity really worked my nerves (especially those who seem to insist that "religious" equals "psychotic right wing kook who hates civil rights". As for the staging of YWT, strange as it may seem, to me it went with what I see as Clay's idea of staging like in the JBT - no more, no less. You sing YWT, you dress up as Elmer Gantry; you sing Motown, you have the skinny black suit; you sing the 70's, you recycle the Gantry suit into a leisure suit; you sing Ricky Martin, you jiggle yourself around in an odd way; you sing ISY, you look for someone's ass to kick. It's very Clay and I can't see him changing his staging any time soon because I don't think he sees the point of "subtle". I like that.

I hope this comes across in the right way, but some of the objections I saw to YWT reminded of my ex, who was absolutely convinced that any problems he had were due to the "man" (and of course the "man" was white) keeping him down. That the "man" did nothing without considering how it affected my ex. And how he got pissed off when I commented that frankly the "man" probably wasn't even thinking about him. It may be horrible, but I just don't think Clay thought much beyond he liked the song and he could sing the shiznit out of it. Or maybe that's just me.

I have to add, that if you felt preached at, you felt preached at, and there is no reason at all you should have to listen to it - Lord know if I'm preached at, I don't...and it's how the preachee feels, not the preacher. But the preachee is entitled to leave as opposed to making the preacher stop...

[jmh123]

<snipping, but this is all good stuff too>

I have to add, that if you felt preached at, you felt preached at, and there is no reason at all you should have to listen to it - Lord know if I'm preached at, I don't...and it's how the preachee feels, not the preacher. But the preachee is entitled to leave as opposed to making the preacher stop...

Leaving is just what I did in Raleigh--I took a perfectly timed and planned break in order to miss that song, and it felt really empowering. In Atlantic City after that I was on the front row (not conducive to sneaking away for one song) and I had a staredown with him as he descended after the song. Actually I think a lot was communicated between us at that moment, and I tend to agree with you KAndre as to where he was coming from. I think he was surprised that the reaction some of us had was so vehement, and didn't understand it, but I also think he regretted that YWT had hurt some people.

That whole YWT debate was a fantastic experience for me. I learned so much from others (some of y'all) and was able to heal some deep and long-standing wounds during that time. Today I'm able to enjoy his Christian music much more as a result, but that song will always be the one I have the most trouble with. For me it's the lyrics and the theological standpoint that made that song different. As a melody it was quite lovely, and a virtuoso performance of the sort he cherishes (as do I).

I knew from the moment I heard the demos that he is most truly alive when he's singing Christian songs, and that I would have to and was willing to deal with that as part of the package--that I wanted to learn how to deal with it, because Christianity has been an issue for me for a long time. There's a long and varied history that I think anyone regardless of affiliations and beliefs would find at least parts of sympathetic, but I don't want to go there. Oddly, even after more unpleasantries in RL post YWT I'm still in a better place. It really used to be such a weight for me, still is, but much, much less. It's my karma to work this out, for real, so YAY for YWT.

But I wanna talk about the handbasket instead. Clay reminds me of the saints and shamans who have a sexual relationship with the divine--just look at the guy in the Clackhouse banner--just look!!! It isn't just that he's hot--it's fascinating to me as a student of religious phenomena to witness and be touched by the experience he's having when he sings to his god even if I don't go to exactly the same place with it. It's fascinating to watch myself be captivated by this experience which for me has a religious component. It's a Gopi/Krishna thing--along with other women I share this experience of a kind of sexual communion with a someone who is, in a sense, an incarnation of divinity. Course he's just the vessel, but hey--what a vessel.

Clay's faith can fascinate me even if I don't share in the particulars--its strength and simplicity is admirable, its intensity when he sings is captivating, and I find it inspiring. I'm curious about his faith, about whether there are times he says, "Why me?" when all the crap keeps happening to him. Perhaps he has a bit of a martyr complex and chalks it up to suffering for the Greater Good. So I can find his religion interesting and attractive without sharing his religious affiliation.

Anyway, his appearance at the concert has fostered an interesting conversation at several boards today, and I think it's been constructive for us here to really talk about something we don't all agree on for a change. (I keep saying us, but I'm not sure I've even posted all day. Obviously I've been a participant.)

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

On the lighter side, I love this thread at the OFC: Clay fans of the future. It's short, but has some really sweet stories.

Edited February 19, 2007 by jmh123

[muskifest]

But I wanna talk about the handbasket instead. Clay reminds me of the saints and shamans who have a sexual relationship with the divine--just look at the guy in the Clackhouse banner--just look!!! It isn't just that he's hot--it's fascinating to me as a student of religious phenomena to witness and be touched by the experience he's having when he sings to his god even if I don't go to exactly the same place with it. It's fascinating to watch myself be captivated by this experience which for me has a religious component. It's a Gopi/Krishna thing--along with other women I share this experience of a kind of sexual communion with a someone who is, in a sense, an incarnation of divinity. Course he's just the vessel, but hey--what a vessel.

Clay's faith can fascinate me even if I don't share in the particulars--its strength and simplicity is admirable, its intensity when he sings is captivating, and I find it inspiring. I'm curious about his faith, about whether there are times he says, "Why me?" when all the crap keeps happening to him. Perhaps he has a bit of a martyr complex and chalks it up to suffering for the Greater Good. So I can find his religion interesting and attractive without sharing his religious affiliation.

Oh, man...I don't know you, jmh123, but I think I'm in love. (I bolded parts that made me feel especially amorous.. )

You know, this is one of those times I wish we could have an FCA pah-teh...I'd love to sit around with Clay singing to us in the background and shoot the intelligent, articulate shit...heh. :medium-smiley-070:

[playbiller]

Sometimes I just feel like I don't know how to be a fan, none of this stuff gets to me one way or another. I don't get wildly enthusisatic either, or disturbed by anything Clay does. Maybe I am missing the caring for strangers gene. I acknowledge taht people can feel this way, I just can never understand it.

I enjoy concerts, Tv appearances, music, all the good things, but I don't really care what Clay feels about things, or take anything he does personally, I am just an anonymous face in the crowd.

on the other hand, I can not get into any of these idol discussions where people talk about how great it is that George Huff is so successful wehn I see him so involved with the 700 club, I have a personal stake in that show. My M-I-L started watchiong it when she had cancer and sent them money to pray for her rather than see a doctor for treatement. There isa related reason why I can't stand the smell of Rose hip tea and vitamin A. Of course reading about the charitable money going to What'sisnames diamond mines instead of care packages for children doesn't help. So anyone involved ion that show gets a big X mark across their name to me. So I can have emotional reactions, but I think they are more politically motivated.

[luckiest1]

I hope this comes across in the right way, but some of the objections I saw to YWT reminded of my ex, who was absolutely convinced that any problems he had were due to the "man" (and of course the "man" was white) keeping him down. That the "man" did nothing without considering how it affected my ex. And how he got pissed off when I commented that frankly the "man" probably wasn't even thinking about him. It may be horrible, but I just don't think Clay thought much beyond he liked the song and he could sing the shiznit out of it. Or maybe that's just me.

Hee, thanks for the laugh. And no, it's not just you.

[ldyjocelyn]

he's just the vessel, but hey--what a vessel.

Man, it's too bad we just changed thread titles, because this would be really, really good.

Thank you ladies for all the discussion about this yesterday. I keep learning from all you smart, smart women. And it's when we can agree to disagree that I think things turn out for the best, especially when there's seemingly respect on all sides of the discussion.

I'm still watching the clip from Saturday night and grinning like a fool. I actually find it so much fun to watch the crowd in that clip -- the way people are simply enjoying the music, and also with a bit of "star struck" when they see Clay there. It doesn't seem overt, the way it would be at a Clay show, but with at least a few of the people, it's there. And he looked adorable, baggy jeans and all.

And now, for the big news of the day:

Happy Birthday bottlecap!

:bday2:

And just for you , since you love the little guy so much:

:3: