# 10 It isn't so easy to get your knickers off when they're in a knot.

[Carolina Clay]

I do think most folks ARE joking when they make comments in Clay's blog. The internet allows a certain familiarity that no other medium allows. Combine that with how we found Clay and the feeling like we are actually playing an active role in keeping him around and that familiarity makes further leaps.

Clay does have an extremely good memory though. My meet and greet was at the JBT in New Hampshire. I don't know how far he can see back but I'm not normally in the first 5 center rows. But he sure as heck remembered couch tomato at Kimmell after a year and a half. That kind of thing makes you feel good and you just have to slap yourself back to reality and tell yourself that he ain't your close and personal friend.

Wow, I had forgotten that -- FCA has THE Couch Tomato! I'm most impressed! :00000442:

You are right about the wide variety of comments, agendas, etc. I just happened to see the comment I quoted because I was on the OFC when Clay blogged, and I believe it was in the first nine. It was also reprinted by the author at CV.

ETA: **waves** to JennaZ!

Caro

Edited June 5, 2007 by Carolina Clay

[playbiller]

A few people posted that to him, I saw it just before my reply. I questioned if he was bored with reading what we were posting about and wanted us to start talking about something else.

ETA - gosh darn it =- how much do we have to chip in for a spell checker here? I always, always seem to catch speling errors after posting, most shamefully after being quoted

Edited June 5, 2007 by playbiller

[keepingfaith]

Clay will be ecstatic to hear this --- the TV Guide link below says that Jericho is reportedly coming back!

http://community.tvguide.com/blog-entry/TV...Verge/800016482

Edited June 5, 2007 by keepingfaith

[Clayzorback]

Don't Sweat The Small Stuff.......

That's what I say. Clay will write, record, and do whatever the hell he wants to, when he wants to. If I've learned nothing else about Clay in the last 4-5 years, I've learned that. If I can learn that everyone should be able to learn that. It's fine and normal to want to express a desire for something as a fan, and another to insist and demand and think you know better what is best for him. That is what I read a lot. It's a real bummer when that happens. JMO

Someone get the PM on the phone!!! Whatever you say. LOL I can soooo see Clay saying that and it CMSU when I read it. I agree the author was mildly being snarky but it did not upset me. He got mentioned and that is better than being out of sight out of mind. I'll take it. love me some pissy, snarky, Diva Clay. Always have, always will.

He may be an "acquired taste" but then so is Caviar........So take that you asshat reporter. Hee

Speaking of Paris and Paul Smith, I wonder if Clay enjoyed, and could wear, the Paul Smith Extreme cologne I gave him for his last birthday? *g* I hope so, it sure did smell good. As for Paul Smith's clothing line? It's a little out there for my taste, so I would not mind if he finds another outfitter.

Jenna and keepingfaith, thanks for the info on Jerico. I thought I had read where they might be bringing it back. I love the show. I started at the beginning of the series. Now I don't know if I will start on Riches. However, Creature Comforts is definitely on my Monday night must see list.

[merrieeee]

There were certain foods I wouldn't eat for years because of things attached to my youth:

fish - almost choked to death on a tiny bone when I was about 7

peppermint tea - my dad drank this... guess who has made about 20 million cups for him while growing up... oh no he did not use a freakin' tea bag like most people.

grits - my aunt made me eat them when I spent the night at her house. I told her we don't eat grits at my house and I wanted oatmeal. She pulled a mommie dearest on me.

It is funny because I to this day cannot stand the smell or taste of anything Wintergreen! When I was a child growing up in England there was a toilet bowl cleaner called Harpic and it had this smell. When I moved here and someone gave me a piece of Wintergreen Gum and I spit it out because it smelled like Harpic!

One day I will tell you aboout my Peanut Butter and Lime Jello sandwich!

[bottlecap]

I caught the very end of Oprah's show today when I got home from work. She was talking to Bono about the July issue of Vanity Fair that focuses on Africa, and that Bono worked on as a guest editor. The issue will feature twenty different covers featuring celebrities involved in African causes - posed to appear as if they are passing a message on to one another. Oprah posed on one cover with George Clooney, and on another with Bill and Melinda Gates. Of course, I couldn't help imaging Clay in such company - I can see him getting there in a few years time. I would love to see him get connected with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. It seems like it would be a great match considering Clay's focus on education issues, both with TBAF and UNICEF. I hope Chip Lyons who left UNICEF to go to work with the Gates' foundation might be able to bring them together.

[Couch Tomato]

I'm reminded that the alternative to love is indifference. "He wrote one song. Nice." with no further encouragement to write additional songs would be a bad sign for the fandom and for his career.

JMO, YMMV, etc.

Hey Artquest - I actually agree with this in theory, don't personally enjoy it in practice for the most part.

And hush your mouth, couchie! He is too my close and personal friend! All my emails from the fan club say "Dear KAndre", so THERE!

Uh, didn't I add my standard exceptation for goddesses out to take over the world? My bad!!

Wow, I had forgotten that -- FCA has THE Couch Tomato! I'm most impressed! :00000442:

heee... stick around for a bit - you'll be cured of that

ETA - gosh darn it =- how much do we have to chip in for a spell checker here? I always, always seem to catch speling errors after posting, most shamefully after being quoted

Oh we don't have spell check? LOL... I'll look into it and see if maybe it's just a simple upgrade that is required. If I comes with a price, we'll have to muddle through somehow :F_05BL17blowkiss:

It is funny because I to this day cannot stand the smell or taste of anything Wintergreen! When I was a child growing up in England there was a toilet bowl cleaner called Harpic and it had this smell. When I moved here and someone gave me a piece of Wintergreen Gum and I spit it out because it smelled like Harpic!

One day I will tell you aboout my Peanut Butter and Lime Jello sandwich!

ha... peanut butter and lime jello? Sounds slightly more appetizing than what my nephew likes -- peanut butter and butter.

Bottle... I share your sentiments about Clay and his charitable endeavors!!

[bottlecap]

ha... peanut butter and lime jello? Sounds slightly more appetizing than what my nephew likes -- peanut butter and butter.

Gee, that's how my mom made peanut butter toast for us when we were kids - a little butter or margarine spread on top of the peanut butter makes it not so sticky. It's even better with a sprinkling of cinnamon sugar to make it a little crunchy.

[Couch Tomato]

ha... peanut butter and lime jello? Sounds slightly more appetizing than what my nephew likes -- peanut butter and butter.

Gee, that's how my mom made peanut butter toast for us when we were kids - a little butter or margarine spread on top of the peanut butter makes it not so sticky. It's even better with a sprinkling of cinnamon sugar to make it a little crunchy.

heeee..well, you learn something every day. I didn't know where this kid got it from. I've never heard of it. I'm gonna have to test this out :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Eeek I'm on my way Muski...

[ldyjocelyn]

See, I guess I'm perfectly happy that he wrote a song...but would be just as happy if he never wrote another song again. I think he could have a fantastic career as a "song stylist" (as someone described him not long ago). I know that songwriting is considered by critics to be the "gold standard" for having a musical career...and frankly, that idea burns my butt. My husband and I go around and around about that all the time, because he thinks songwriters who sing have more cred. Maybe that's true....but why? And why can't someone who sings and interprets songs and turns them into ART have a career without writing a song?

As far as the comments on the blog goes....I understand that some are simply joking. It's hard to tell tone in a written comment like that. But, at the same time, there's a consistent feeling I get that some just don't want him to do something, they NEED him to do something. Big difference. The key really is Clay -- what does he want? And as a fan, that's what I want for him to -- what he wants. Call me simplistic, that's fine, but that's really how I feel.

My final point -- there's lots of grey area between wanting to Clay write songs continually and Clay to never write another song again. I think that area sometimes gets lost, on both sides of the coin. The whole issue isn't a black and white thing. I'd certainly celebrate if Clay continues to work on his songwriting craft and comes up with another winner like LAA.

OK, I'm off the soapbox now.

Peanut butter and butter together? FANTASTIC!!! Love it.

[muskifest]

I would love to see him get connected with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. It seems like it would be a great match considering Clay's focus on education issues, both with TBAF and UNICEF. I hope Chip Lyons who left UNICEF to go to work with the Gates' foundation might be able to bring them together.

Oh, bottlecap! I soooo wish this, too...

'coss the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is the sole funder of the non-profit organization where I am now employed! In fact, so often in meetings or when looking over some of hte workshop proposals for our conferences, I think of Clay---how excited he'd be to hear about what's going on in the schools that are part of our coalition of small schools---how inspired he'd be to read about some incredible teachers and involved kids...

Our major fall forum is in Charlotte next year (2008) and I have this pie-in-the-sky idea that if we happen to focus on 'inclusion' as our theme that year, well....

Sitting here waiting on the couch woman---we're gonna walk. It's a beautiful, albeit very windy day. Hey, anybody know any good drugs to make me skinny?

[Claygasm]

Hey, anybody know any good drugs to make me skinny?

No, but if you find any, you better share with your friends!

You all know that site I posted yesterday where you can watch The Riches for free? Well, they have tons of other TV shows there too. I had always wanted to catch "Dirt", also on FX, but could never remember when it was on. I jut watched the first 2 episodes and its great! Rather dark, but really well done. You will never think of Courtney Cox the same way again!

I can see where this site will supply me with my summer TV fix!

Here is where you can see a listing of all the TV shows they offer:

http://www.tv-links.co.uk/index.do/1

Edited June 6, 2007 by Claygasm

[Nelle]

I couldn't get anything at that tvlinks.com site to play.

did anyone with a Mac get it to work???

[Claygasm]

I couldn't get anything at that tvlinks.com site to play.

did anyone with a Mac get it to work???

Nelle, I have a Mac and had no trouble with it.

Saw this at the CH posted by galrow. Its from today's Vancouver 24 Hours magazine.

The picture makes it look like they both have their eyes sewn shut!

[Ansamcw]

ha... peanut butter and lime jello? Sounds slightly more appetizing than what my nephew likes -- peanut butter and butter.

Gee, that's how my mom made peanut butter toast for us when we were kids - a little butter or margarine spread on top of the peanut butter makes it not so sticky. It's even better with a sprinkling of cinnamon sugar to make it a little crunchy.

Hee I thought this is just something our family does....although we don't put cinamon sugar just sugar. this was the favorite snack of my grandfather, butter on bread, then peanut butter then sprinkle it with sugar. Now this is one of my favorite comfort food...and I actually want one right now...hee

See, I guess I'm perfectly happy that he wrote a song...but would be just as happy if he never wrote another song again. I think he could have a fantastic career as a "song stylist" (as someone described him not long ago). I know that songwriting is considered by critics to be the "gold standard" for having a musical career...and frankly, that idea burns my butt. My husband and I go around and around about that all the time, because he thinks songwriters who sing have more cred. Maybe that's true....but why? And why can't someone who sings and interprets songs and turns them into ART have a career without writing a song?

For me its not that I want him to write songs...I just want him to open up his creativity. I do think that at times he is holding himself back. I also don't like the idea that he does not write because he does not think he does it well. He is very articulate and good at writing...I'm sure he can do good lyrics and even melody. And LAA proved that to me. I always thought that what held Clay back is his reluctance to fully open himself up and making himself vulnerable. That is why I was so happy to see him try and write a script for JNT and totally thrilled with LAA...I just knew that once he does try to write a song that it will truly be from the heart. So now...I am happy to wait for the next endeavour. It means so much to him so it is more precious.

As far as the comments on the blog goes....I understand that some are simply joking. It's hard to tell tone in a written comment like that. But, at the same time, there's a consistent feeling I get that some just don't want him to do something, they NEED him to do something. Big difference. The key really is Clay -- what does he want? And as a fan, that's what I want for him to -- what he wants. Call me simplistic, that's fine, but that's really how I feel.

I just don't think its a joke for a lot of fans...specially those that like to write about it again and again. artquest you are right. some fans just want so much more from Clay...but these fans should realize that he is not there to just satisfy their insatiable hunger...In the end I do sense an underlying anger in these type of posts. Specially because lots of fans need to really get into Clay;s head and look into his career. That need is whats makes it uncomfortable to me.

Oh I watched the pilot episode of The Riches...I love it. It is dark...but the first episode showed such deep family bonds and love between the characters...I think this is what Clay finds riveting...cos this is also a common theme in Jericho...

Nelle...alluc... is another site that has a lot of tv shows you can watch on line. It has The Riches but not all of the episodes are there...maybe you will have better luck with it.

[KAndre]

I guess if I liked LAA better, I'd be more into Clay's writing...and yeah, to me, many of those "jokingly" scolding posts come off as passive aggressive. I admit I tend to project as I have had sisters (and teachers) insist that if I really let myself go and write some poetry or crap like that, I would see how blind I've been and shaaaaaare more...my sisters I could happily ignore, but the instructors made me resentful...though to be fair, they were like English or lit instructors and seemed to really be into that stuff. But not everyone is.

[roseviolet]

Roseviolet to your comment at CV this morning!

The remark/blog comment was made that Clay "has waaaaaaay too much time" on his hands that might be better spent "writing songs or something."

LOL, Roseviolet's reply: I'm not sure how one can come to that conclusion. In any case, I'm sure he saves a lot of time by not surfing message boards.

WORD, WORD, WORD!!!

Thank you. As KAndre observed, I found the comment to be more passive aggressive than joking.

For me its not that I want him to write songs...I just want him to open up his creativity. I do think that at times he is holding himself back. I also don't like the idea that he does not write because he does not think he does it well. He is very articulate and good at writing...I'm sure he can do good lyrics and even melody. And LAA proved that to me. I always thought that what held Clay back is his reluctance to fully open himself up and making himself vulnerable. That is why I was so happy to see him try and write a script for JNT and totally thrilled with LAA...I just knew that once he does try to write a song that it will truly be from the heart. So now...I am happy to wait for the next endeavour. It means so much to him so it is more precious.

I get more the feeling that Clay is constantly growing in his art. Is he holding himself back? Maybe. Probably didn't help that people who are suppose to be his fans went way beyond constructive criticism and stomped all over his efforts on the script for JNT. Personally, I thought he did great with it and accomplished his goal of showcasing the songs in an interesting and fun way. JMHO

I'm also quite bitter that certain fans ran Jaymes off the board. It looked like she was willing to share some of what was going on in the background. What a wasted opportunity for us.

[jmh123]

Folks have made some good points. I won't belabor those infamous examples of the way the fans encouraged Clay's creative efforts on the JNT and welcomed actual insiders like Jaymes. Did anyone mention people's reactions to the new songs they tested on the JBT? BFM did get acclaim--the rest, some, not by any means overwhelming. Lot of criticism. I criticized them.

I love LAA. It's a beautiful song. I hope he writes more. If he wrote 10 songs today, I wouldn't expect to hear about it anytime soon. I certainly wouldn't assume he didn't just because he watched some TV.

I think I can be encouraging to Clay without instructing him on what to do with his time, and when to work. I think Clay is frequently busy, much busier than most board fans imagine him to be. I also think he's allowed to watch some TV. Most of us do. And I just really don't think of him as someone who needs admonishing that much--I'd be hard pressed to do anywhere near as well as he has with his career. Man's got a brain on him as well as talent, and common sense too, and he's funny, which is like an aphrodisiac, you know. I digress. And there's BAF and UNICEF and so forth. Man's allowed to watch TV. Period. Course I love the Riches and my comment was "Eeeeee. I love The Riches" and so forth, and that was kind of cool.

Do y'all keep the window with your comment open and stare at it off and on for like three or four hours because his name and yours are on the same screen? Anyone else do that?

I think I encourage Clay plenty. I just don't happen to do it by telling him no TV til he's done his homework. LOL.

Edited June 6, 2007 by jmh123

[Couch Tomato]

OK I give...Everybody else is watching the RIches..guess I'll be a lemming too heee.

Searching up and down my remote control I found a new network called Chiller. Now normally I'd never watch anything on this channel but they're showing American Gothic...eeeeeeeeee. I loved that show.

I give again. Peanut butter and butter...ok on the list for CG and Ansa when they spend the night.

I'm all for Clay writing again...Ansa I liked your reasoning..that's me too. And I think he will.

Roseviolet: A tidbit now and again from Jaymes would have been nice. I just don't see anybody close to Clay being able to do this without extreme and harsh scruitny from just enough people to make it uncomfortable.

I think I encourage Clay plenty. I just don't happen to do it by telling him no TV til he's done his homework. LOL.

bwah

ETA: Muski get your ass off the internet and do your homework. Next thing you know you'll be watching tv or something. oh wait when I get to your house you were watching tv. heee

[muskifest]

I just don't happen to do it by telling him no TV til he's done his homework. LOL.

Bwah and Amen!

Besides, I can imagine that Clay's reaction to someone telling him that would be to have a tv watching marathon!

My kind of man, fo' sho'! :medium-smiley-070:

But, alas. I must actually follow such advice. I STILL haven't done the work that I must do for work...it's due tomorrow and I've STILL not done it. Haven't been watching tv instead, but I have learned quite a lot about entry level digital cameras (for a daughter's upcoming birthday), hotels in Tahoe (for softball team tourney), how the weight loss drug Orlistat makes you have embarrassing 'accidents', affordable yet very good headphones (for hubby's Father's Day gift), and how Paris Hilton's mug shot is oh-so-much-more glam than other celebrities in-house photo ops.

All through the magic of the internet!

Digress? Procrastinate? Avoid?

All my middle names, my friends. :medium-smiley-070:

[rcknrllmom]

okay here's my profound post for early in the morning....

peanut butter and butter......just NO....gross, ick, ewwwwwwwww...hate it..

there....how it that? lol

[luckiest1]

Soooo many great posts here since I shut the board down last night. I'll only quote a few of them, I promise.

It's fine and normal to want to express a desire for something as a fan, and another to insist and demand and think you know better what is best for him.

Exactly!

I know that songwriting is considered by critics to be the "gold standard" for having a musical career...and frankly, that idea burns my butt. My husband and I go around and around about that all the time, because he thinks songwriters who sing have more cred. Maybe that's true....but why? And why can't someone who sings and interprets songs and turns them into ART have a career without writing a song?

They can, and they should. There were lots of them, back in the day. Elvis rarely contributed anything to his songs. Clay is a vocal stylist, IMO. If he decides he likes to write songs, too, great. If not, great. I'm glad David encouraged him to try. Whether he will continue along that path, no one knows but Clay.

I get more the feeling that Clay is constantly growing in his art. Is he holding himself back? Maybe. Probably didn't help that people who are suppose to be his fans went way beyond constructive criticism and stomped all over his efforts on the script for JNT. Personally, I thought he did great with it and accomplished his goal of showcasing the songs in an interesting and fun way. JMHO

WORD WORD WORD! One of my biggest disappointments with this fandom (not Clay) was the JNT05. He reached out with his creativity and a good number of people smacked him down for it.

I think I encourage Clay plenty. I just don't happen to do it by telling him no TV til he's done his homework. LOL.

Hee, well said. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Has this been brought over yet? Get your tissues ready before you watch it.

edited to take out you tube link...this has been set to private, the family didn;t want it distributed on the net....ansa

Looks to be the reenactment filmed the day after the concert. I hope someone can rip it before it disappears from YouTube.

And I found this on the Clayboard. Soooooooooo cute!

[Couch Tomato]

OMG why am I watching Clay Aiken at 4:30 in the morning. Thank you Lucky. So happy I got to see that. Hope it is ripped. I mean this was something that we only had a partial grainy video for. That must have been given to the family. Amazing. What's that wet stuff on my face. OK its' the reenactment of the event because they didn't get it the first time. Even better, no screams heee. Although in this case I'd take the emotion of the moment and the screams. What a gift.

Oh and while I was at youtube I removed all the nasty comments from the videos I put up. Geesh. If you don't like Clay why in hell are you watching his videos. I wish I could find the people behind the comments and rip out their liver. :finger: Going back to bed.

[Clayzorback]

OMG...........Peanut butter and butter together. You know, I had never heard of this until I married my husband 23 years ago. It is a staple for him. Every morning he has 2 slices of toast, first buttered heavily, then with Peanut Butter on top and a glass of milk. No sugar or cinnamon sugar, though. One day I got brave and tried it. I love it. Unfortunately, this last year, I can hardly eat PB anymore. For some reason it gives me heartburn. Go figure?

I confess that, in the early days of my fandom, I was like some of the fans I am now criticizing. It sincerely came from a deep desire to want Clay to succeed and be successful and rich. I still want that for him. I thought I knew better than he, sometimes, on what was a good career move and what wasn't. I speculated about Clive and what was going on. Not that I have any experience in the music business, or inside sources who do. I based my opinions on the wisdom that comes with age, and my own personal business experiences. I also was listening to the so called resident expert fans, who turned out to be wrong wrong wrong on so many occasions. Based a lot of my opinions on who I thought, and more importantly wanted, Clay to be. It was a hard lesson for me to learn, that this is the wrong way to support him. I always said that I would know all I needed to know about Clay after his sophmore cd came out. I know think I know who Clay is much better, than in the beginning. That is when you saw the tide turn in the way I look at my role as a fan, and my opinions on things now. I absolutely believe in free speech and I absolutely agree that Clay needs constructive honest feedback from his fans. I believe the best way to do that is to do it respectfully, state your opinion on something once, and then move on.

Ok I am going to offer myself up for slaughter here, I know. LOL But I'm going for it anyway. I don't remember how I exactly responded to his skit with JNT05, but I was one who didn't much like it. I loved his attempt at trying to be creative and I went to see one show, to show my support. I Bought 2 of his Christmas cds. I also didn't like his TV Christmas special. I just don't like the Andy Williams type cheese. However more importantly, I have come to realize that Clay does. So more power to him if he wants to do more. I can pick and choose what I like and will buy. If I don't like I don't have to buy. It is as simple as that, as Couchie said, I believe.

I do remember that I was one of the ones very vocally against Jaymes coming on the boards and posting with the fans. IMHO it is very unprofessional for Jaymes, Roger, Clay's friends, or Clay's family to share any information about anything to do with Clay's business. Just as it is a bad idea for the boss to date an employee, I think it is unprofessional for any member of Clay's team to mingle and gossip with his fans. JMO & YMMV As we have seen in the past, a little bit of knowledge in the hands of the fans can be a very dangerous thing. The angst it creates can be devastating to Clay, and I offer the constant Album threads, warning of covers, as a prime example. I also firmly believe that the constant angst that the same few fans keep creating is why you will see safe generic blogs from Clay from now on. Again JMO

You know I used to read all those posts by people saying how imperative it is for artists to write their own music. So, I started watching the song writing credits with each music video I watched on VH1 and GAC. Rarely does the artist singing have any writing credits attributed to the song they are singing in the video. The majority of the times the songs are written by song writers for singers to sing. So I say hogwash to the notion that Clay has to write his own material, to be successful or have respect in the business. I do think he will write more songs, and I do think he has already written many songs before AI2. I don't think he will let the fans opinions sway him on this one way or another.

[Clayzorback]

I'm gussing that Clayzorback really didn't want you to read that twice...

ldyjocelyn