#22: Which brings us to Clay Aiken, as most good conversations should

[lilyshine]

I'll be at Williamsport also, if you don't mind a slightly Grinchy person crashing the party!

I've gotten to the point where my Christmas/Hanukkah/whatever present buying consists of sitting down in front of my laptop and deciding between bees or water buffalo from Heifer, Int. and blankets, ORT or vaccinations from UNICEF with maybe some Oxfam on the side. Most people I give to have way too much "stuff" already.

[aikim]

I think the difference this year is that this really isn't a concert; it is a Christmas Show; so I could see how someone would be disappointed if they were expecting concert Clay. Clay said in a M & G that if he were to do another Christmas Special he would use this format and that is exactly what it appears to be...a T.V. type show, not a concert involving the audience.

Never having been to a "last show"; this has been an experience having to wait to see the show...I very much looking forward to it.

Kim

[playbiller]

Heh, I guess that I have not bought a times for a while, turns out it is 4.00. So I got 3 NYT for the people who want the Arts and Leisure part and 3 of the 1.50 Bergen record for people who just want the ad, sitting in among recipes, they are both full page ads.

PM me your address and which you want and we will try and sort this out. An ice storm is coming this way, so I really don't want to go out again, sorry.

I don't plan on shipping any of these out until I go to another concert and look for circulars to include, so I will send it out probably the Monday after this one, only because the last concert is Thursday and I have things to do Friday and Saturday.

I guess, I should read a paper once in a while, instead of reading them on-line.

[jumpingjacks]

Color me crazy but I'm not sure why we have to justify our opinions to others. It's my opinion...nobody has to feel the same way as I do so why do we preface things with "I hope no one throws stones"? I don't share the critic's opinion but I don't feel the need to justify his right to say whatever he wants 'cause it's his opinion...just an opinion. His words don't hold any more weight than anyone's. My feelings and thoughts are mine and I'm happy as hell to allow others to own theirs so why do we have to justify them?

I'm not a prolific poster, never have been, never will be, so perhaps there is a history here that I'm not aware exists. I've just never understood the need to defend my opinion or to "throw stones" at someone whose opinion differs from mine.

[ldyjocelyn]

Am I too late for the NYT runs? Probably....just my luck....

Husband and I got our Christmas tree and outdoor lights done yesterday -- thankfully. 'Cause today is freezing rain and s*** like that. Actually, it started overnight. I woke up at 4:00 a.m. in a cold sweat because of it. My bell choir played this morning at church, with only one person not making it in safely. I was truly worried, but everyone was cool. Church attendance was pretty sparse, though. *g* And now hubby and I are home, NOT going out for the rest of the day.

The rest of my Christmas stuff, though -- well, that needs work. I've gotten a few presents, but nothing else. No holiday baking done at all, although I have to admit I don't do a lot of it -- people usually give me enough to make it through. I'm taking tomorrow off from work though; I'm hoping to get some more shopping done, wrapped and mailed (usually the hardest part, standing in line at the post office....) tomorrow. Oh yeah, cards...need to do those too.

Anyway, time to catch up. Looks like I have some clack to download.....

jumpingjacks -- actually we're usually pretty good about our opinions around here. For the most part, we state them, and we move on. However, I will say that more than a few of us have been at boards where we state our opinions only to be bashed for them, frequently repeatedly, because we weren't "toe-ing the party line" I guess. That can make someone very gun-shy about stating an opinion that may be unpopular. Also, and I know this doesn't come out via simply writing, but I do tend to take the "stone throwing" thing as a bit of a joke -- it's a way to preface things that we know may not be popular. Maybe others will chime in?

[luckiest1]

play, I'd love one of the ads from the Bergen paper, if you have any left. I am going to run over to Chapters later and see if they just happen to have any NY papers, and if they do, I'll check back in.

I have been quite productive this weekend. Friday night my son and I went out and bought a new artificial tree, since the cats have done a number on our old one over the past few years. Imagine my surprise that they now sell "pre-lit" trees?!?!? Cool! It has clear white lights, which I really like better than the old strings of multi-coloured ones we used to have. Yesterday morning was almost like Christmas morning around here, because my son was so excited about putting up the new tree that he was up when it was still dark, dragging it out of the box and assembling it. We got it decorated by last night, and I also got all my water globes out of storage and assembled around the living room. Hee, I only go to these lengths to decorate once a year, thank God.

Last night and this morning I've done some Christmas baking - cherry balls (recipe in recipe thread) and my mom's shortbread cookies. So I feel pretty good about things, since the next two weekends will be Clay weekends for me. I haven't bought a single gift or stocking stuffer yet, though. I also haven't bought a Christmas turkey. Maybe I can do those things while I am in the States.....

I don't click on concert reviews if the person who brings them over is kind enough to give me the heads up that they are negative. I'm not saying people aren't entitled to their opinions, just that I don't go out of my way to read that kind of stuff. I'm in my happy place with this tour, and that's good enough for me.

[jumpingjacks]

Anyone who knows me knows how far away I am from a "towing-the-party-line" kind of gal. Not my style at all. However, I also am not one who invests a lot of energy into trying to convince someone to think the same way I do. It's virtually impossible and only leads to power struggles which no one wins. I read the negative along with the positive. I question both at times.

This board has really shown me how on the fringe I am with my fandom. I'm more of an observer than a participant. Perhaps that's kept me from getting wrapped up in the politics of the fans...dunno.

Think I'll stay on the fringe.

[Guest Toots]

I think CG was using that phrase as a way to say, "this isn't going to be popular", not to introduce any personal stuff. I've don't think CG gets personal about her feelings, she just states them and doesn't bash anyone along the way. I admire that!

jj, I understand that!

[jumpingjacks]

toots, I really wasn't addressing CG's post but posts in general. I just find it kind of sad that we have to preface things and hope that we won't get beat down for our opinion, ya know? It doesn't make a bit of sense to me, I guess.

I didn't feel anything personal in CG's posts. I don't have to agree with everyone but I sure am not going to smack them around for feeling differently than I.

[Couch Tomato]

I think CG was using that phrase as a way to say, "this isn't going to be popular", not to introduce any personal stuff. I've don't think CG gets personal about her feelings, she just states them and doesn't bash anyone along the way. I admire that!

jj, I understand that!

Toots, it's not about CG...I noticed one of my admins did that yesterday and she was all glowing over something. I think we don't need to personalize the current convo. I think anticipating reaction, no matter what your opinion may be is just something people do. I try not to do it ..just state my opinion. I think it's from being used to a conversation flowing one way and then somebody says..I can't be the only one that blah blah blah and then the conversation flows the other way. LOL Hopefully peole just feel free to post. I do think it's harder when you have a minority opinion on something...been there, done that...still post my opinion.

my hair is all nice and dark and shiney hee

[Guest Toots]

toots, I really wasn't addressing CG's post but posts in general. I just find it kind of sad that we have to preface things and hope that we won't get beat down for our opinion, ya know? It doesn't make a bit of sense to me, I guess.

I didn't feel anything personal in CG's posts. I don't have to agree with everyone but I sure am not going to smack them around for feeling differently than I.

jj, I agree.

[liney23]

jj... I've been around the boards since AI2 and this is one of the bestest boards existing. There are some fascinating discussions here with all kinds of differing opinions and no one gets slammed or belittled nor nothin'. I LOVE those kinds of discussions cause as I'm reading, I'm saying to myself... oh, I agree totally with that... or,... nope, don't agree with that. Bottom line is it makes me think and sometimes broaden my opinions about something and isn't that what discussions are supposed to be for?

FCA, I salute you!!! (and jj, you are part of that, so thanks for being here - on the fringe or not)

The respect and valuing of each other here is unsurpassed and awesome to be a part of and kudos to Couchie and Ansa for creating and nurturing this place and to all of us who keep it that way without being stilletoed! LOL

[jumpingjacks]

jj... I've been around the boards since AI2 and this is one of the bestest boards existing. There are some fascinating discussions here with all kinds of differing opinions and no one gets slammed or belittled nor nothin'. I LOVE those kinds of discussions cause as I'm reading, I'm saying to myself... oh, I agree totally with that... or,... nope, don't agree with that. Bottom line is it makes me think and sometimes broaden my opinions about something and isn't that what discussions are supposed to be for?

I agree with everything you posted. I think that's why I questioned why we have to preface our posts. It has seemed, to me, that all opinions are accepted.

Since there have been stones thrown in past history, I can only assume that the feeling there is that stones may be thrown this time. Perhaps it is intended to be humorous and I'm just missing it. If that's the case, my apologies.

I spent a good portion of the first part of my fandom being goofy, silly, and just all about the fun. I found out, quickly, that this was a serious business and got slapped pretty hard for not taking it seriously. It was then that I realized that I really didn't get the whole message board concept. I thought it was supposed to be fun and it stopped being fun.

That's why I'm very happy I found this board. It has made my board experience fun again. My life is stressful enough without the added angst of the crap that no one can control.

So, thanks for having me, even though I'm more of an observer...I like what I see.

[playbiller]

OK, if you would settle for a Bergen record, I am going out to get some more, since the storm has not started yet. LdyJocelyn, Couchie and Liney? 3 copies?

Don't worry about me Play.

Who is editing my posts? Couchie, is that you? I know you have a rep for editng posts

[cha cha trusty]

Did y'all see Sean McMann's review? He loved the show! Even tho he only saw the second half due to prior committments.

There are a couple of pix and a short shaky video too. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

...and I don't know about you, but I'm still in awe of what I saw and heard last night. In one sentence:

I was blown away by Clay Aiken's "Christmas in the Heartland" stop at the Mid-Hudson Civic Center in Poughkeepsie.

I am still recovering from last night's party. Why do I do this to myself?? Anyhow - it's still yucky outside so I think I'll make a pot of stew and call it a day!!

Christmas baking??? What's that??

[aikim]

Anyone who knows me knows how far away I am from a "towing-the-party-line" kind of gal. Not my style at all. However, I also am not one who invests a lot of energy into trying to convince someone to think the same way I do. It's virtually impossible and only leads to power struggles which no one wins. I read the negative along with the positive. I question both at times.

This board has really shown me how on the fringe I am with my fandom. I'm more of an observer than a participant. Perhaps that's kept me from getting wrapped up in the politics of the fans...dunno.

Think I'll stay on the fringe.

I know exactly how you feel, I often feel like I am on the outside looking in and a lot of that does have to do with being burned so often, sometimes it is just better to read along and keep your opinions to your self...especially when they often seem to go against the mainstream...at least at other boards. However, here, I always find myself nodding my head in agreement to many posts that articulate very well what I am thinking.

Kim

[Couch Tomato]

oops sorry Play heee

wow, haven't done that in awhile. heee

Online communcation doesn't have to be hard but it's never going to be perfect. I'm always rather suprrised when this conversation comes up because this board is actually one of the mildest I've ever been on. I almost feel like our motto should be "if you can't make it here"... wonder if that's trademarked by anyone. If everybody jsut does their best, we'll be fine.

The Raiders suck. And for the encore I get to tune into the sucky 48'ers.

ETA: I'm a genius..5 seconds in and we're already down by 7. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK

[Gibby]

I'll be at Williamsport also, if you don't mind a slightly Grinchy person crashing the party!

I've gotten to the point where my Christmas/Hanukkah/whatever present buying consists of sitting down in front of my laptop and deciding between bees or water buffalo from Heifer, Int. and blankets, ORT or vaccinations from UNICEF with maybe some Oxfam on the side. Most people I give to have way too much "stuff" already.

Heifer and UNICEF are both excellent choices for Christmas presents. My parents give Heifer gifts to us kids every year, and we all appreciate it so much. This year they are giving a well to a poor village, from my siblings and I. I can't think of a better way to show the spirit of the season!

This board has really shown me how on the fringe I am with my fandom. I'm more of an observer than a participant. Perhaps that's kept me from getting wrapped up in the politics of the fans...dunno.

Think I'll stay on the fringe.

I think a lot of people here resonante with your stance, JJ. I've been an active Clay fan, but somewhat passive on the boards, because I didn't want to get caught up in the politics. I also have been edited on another board, found it disturbing and hurtful, and retreated. Until I found FCA. I'm so happy here!

OK, if you would settle for a Bergen record, I am going out to get some more, since the storm has not started yet. LdyJocelyn, Couchie and Liney? 3 copies?

Do I understand correctly that the NY Times has a partial page ad, and the Bergen has a full-page ad?

[ausdon]

RE: stone throwing, I thought that CG was just saying "this might be unpopular" and I have not noticed any serious stone throwing around here ( I do work at being a bit thick skinned though.. I find it helps with life in general!)

I do agree though that the review seemed balanced. Not a good one but at least the guy seemed to have thought about it, researched him , saw the show and then decided that it was just not his cup of tea. He didn't belittle the fans or drag in any tabloid gossip or childish innuendo. IMO this is what I expect from a professional reviewer although unquestioning adoration would be nice....

ETA: You people are Christmas dynamos!! I am heading north to join my husband this year so will not be doing any prep until about the 20th. eeek

[Gibby]

Here's a fascinating M&G recap, via CV, originally posted at the OFC. Mods, delete my post if it's not okay to bring it over (CV had permission to bring it from the OFC):

From asolo:

Meet & Greet New Brunswick, 12/6/07

After much anticipatory excitement, we six Meet & Greet winners were met by Jerome and taken to the main theater and given the M&G rules. Jerome told us to be prepared to ask questions because Clay likes to talk. With a warning about the circuitous route, we followed Jerome through the snake-like, dark passageways behind the stage and entered a cozy, den-like room set with 2 sofas and 3 chairs. I sat on the end of the sofa directly across from one of the empty chairs that I hoped Clay would sit in.

Suddenly, as we were trying to compose ourselves in our fan-girly excitement, the door opened, and in walked Clay wearing a grey K-State hooded sweatshirt with sleeves rolled up, navy blue sweatpants, dark blue velvet half slippers, no socks, and glasses!!! He was clean-shaven, his light reddish-gold hair all nice and fluffy, had matching light-colored eyebrows (they were not fluffy!), and cuddly, yet intellectual-looking. Clay is one stunningly handsome man. He circled around the room, leaned down and shook each of our hands, then flopped into the chair directly opposite me! He tucked his long, lanky legs under him and then asked where each of us was from. He remarked how he recognized the young girl who had been to many of his concerts.

He then asked if we had any questions. Excuse me if I miss some questions and answers and mix up the order because of the understandable Clayfog I was in. I pulled out my 2 sheets of questions and asked, “What have you enjoyed the most about working with your new record producer so far?”

Clay said that he and the producer get along really well- they click (I’m not positive that was the word he used; he might have). The producer listens to him and is flexible. Clay seemed very happy and comfortable with his producer.

Someone asked what he foresees for the Bubel-Aiken Foundation. Clay said he wants to change the name of the foundation. When he said that, everyone gasped. He said the name is too difficult to pronounce and he’s tired of explaining how the name came about. He also wants to get rid of the celebrity attachment to the foundation. He would like to see foundation-run camps and more after-school involvement.

Clay was asked if he would do another Christmas album. This is where the conversation-or rather I should say, the monologue- became very interesting. He told us he did not like his Christmas album, "Merry Christmas with Love." If there were gasps before when he mentioned he would be changing the BAF name, those paled in reaction to his opinion about "Merry Christmas With Love". He continued by saying that he wanted to re-do, or re-package the original album by changing and adding to the new one.

He did not want to sing “Joy to the World” or “Silent Night” on "Merry Christmas With Love", and those songs would not be on his next Christmas album. He felt that “Silent Night” was too much like a church choir song, and very possibly- I’m not quite sure (Clayfog!)- he might have sung a few bars from “Silent Night” to demonstrate the choir-like sound that he doesn’t like.

He thought the tempos of “Winter Wonderland” and “Sleigh Ride” were too slow, and the phrasing of “Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas” was too straightforward and stilted. He sang "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" by singing it in a straight, box-like manner, using his hands to demonstrate the rigid tempo and phrasing that were recorded. He wants to re-do those songs and is very, very definite about the styles and tempos he wants to use.

He wants to add all the songs from the “All is Well” album and his new song, “Welcome to My World.” He did say there are no other Christmas songs left for him to record. The M&Gers protested that there are plenty more beautiful Christmas songs out there, but he said he didn’t like any of them; some were too religious, others too secular.

He said he has all of the songs for his new Christmas album on his computer and are “ready to go.” He also said that those songs are “all over the place.”

He said that he likes the Walter Afanasieff, and wants him to produce his next Christmas album. He also said that other producers don’t want to do this album because the songs would not be performed in the traditional manner; the producers are afraid of change and fear they will be struck down. I’m not sure if he meant by God or by Clive Davis.

Clay’s concern is that the song changes don’t warrant a new album at all, and the public might think he’s looking for a fast buck by re-packaging the album. Also at issue is that there are too many songs to put on one CD and not enough for a dual-disc set. I suggested a CD/DVD, but he said it would cost $25 to purchase, and that was too expensive for the buyer.

Clay reiterated again and again how much he disliked the production of some of the "Merry Christmas With Love" songs. But, he is very insistent that he wants to record a new Christmas album and is very definite about how he wants to record the songs.

He interrupted himself to say that his hands were dry. I screamed out… I mean, I politely said, “I have hand lotion. Here…” I bought the lotion that morning and checked the ingredients, knowing to keep away from almonds. Clay took the lotion, looked at the ingredients, and read out loud, “PLUS Intensive Repair Hand Crème.” He opened the cap and rubbed the lotion on his hands. I snatched that baby back as fast as I could. Now, when I use the lotion that Clay shared, can we say, “con.nec.shun?!”

Clay was asked if Jerome would go with him to NYC. He answered, “It’s none of your business.” Then, I believe, the same woman asked, “What side of the bed do you sleep on?” I don’t think he answered. But, then again, my Clayfog kicked in.

He was asked about the little boy’s photo on the M&G pass. When in Afghanistan for UNICEF, Clay had seen the boy sitting perfectly still in a wheelbarrow. Clay seemed quite moved by that moment and took a picture of the little boy.

I’m sure there was more said, but for the life of me, I can’t remember… Clayfog, you know.

Mary sat at a desk with a laptop, Jerome stood in the room in front of the door, and Jamie stood off to the side by Jerome. All of a sudden, Jamie began collecting our items to be autographed by Clay. He signed my “Original Sheet Music Edition” of “Bridge Over Troubled Water” and “This is the Night” with, “Use Your Voice Clay Aiken.” After the autographs, we were called up one at a time for our photo op. I stood to the right of Clay, he holding my waist, and I, his.

Clay is a very smart and fascinating man. He’s quick, intelligent, and most certainly, brilliant about music. He’s very opinionated, very definite about what he wants, and goal-oriented. I was stunned that he was so open and forthright with us regarding the original "Merry Christmas With Love" album and his desire to repackage a future Christmas album. Perhaps, he was testing the waters of album production by talking to us in this candid manner. His musical visions excite me and I would love to learn more about what it is that he foresees for himself as a creative artist. I can’t wait to see what Clay’s future holds.

[muskifest]

This board has really shown me how on the fringe I am with my fandom.

Oh, no! jj! Fringe? You mean like the Faye Parker ottoman fringe?

Heheh. Don't only lurk, please. I like your posts. And I'm with you here:

I spent a good portion of the first part of my fandom being goofy, silly, and just all about the fun. I found out, quickly, that this was a serious business and got slapped pretty hard for not taking it seriously. It was then that I realized that I really didn't get the whole message board concept. I thought it was supposed to be fun and it stopped being fun.

Just insert (heh) the word "smutty" for the "goofy, silly" words in that first sentence and you'll have my first message board experience.

Of course, NOW I get slapped around when I'm NOT smutty...go figure.

Know what? I have opinions. And they're not always going to be singing Clay Aiken's praises, clothing/hair/or eye fashion, words, concert themes, song choices, atttitudes or even his PANTS! And I reserve the right to NOT like something he does. I think it's really interesting to hear people talk about why they like or don't like something. It's NOT so much fun to read people's rationale for why my opinion reflects a lack of understanding of what Clay intended.

There's a big difference there, IMO.

Anyhoo....I FLOVED Bookwhore's status report of her Christmas preparations. BWAH! As I sit here with boxes of decorations in the middle of the living room floor---the only sign of the holidays being one lone cinnamon-scented candle burning and the lights outside (not currently on)--not ONE present bought yet and not many GOING to be bought this year---Honey, I'm with YOU! We're going now to get a tree, though, so before going to bed tonight we'll probably have some yuletide cheer--

might even have some decorations, too. Heh. (Get it? We'll HAVE yuletide cheer, as in booze---but...oh, never mind... :F_05BL17blowkiss: )

Later, dudettes!

[jumpingjacks]

This board has really shown me how on the fringe I am with my fandom.

Oh, no! jj! Fringe? You mean like the Faye Parker ottoman fringe?

No, No, No!!!! Fringe as in Clay Bangs! Heh...get it....Clay....bangs...if only it were me!

[Couch Tomato]

Clay had seen the boy sitting perfectly still in a wheelbarrow.

ah his inspiration for the staging

Clay continues to surprise me. I didn't like JTTW or it's jarring placement on the album but other than that love MCWL. I would love to have a reworked album though. But what's so good about the Xmas songs is that he has been able to sing these any way he wants in concert. He did seem to have a much larger hand in AIW and it's something he truly loves. Good for him. More autonomy over his projects are something I guess that comes with time and success...and time hee. perhaps a long long time. But Clay's not special in that regard..it's par for the course in that business. The more he figures out what HE wants and is able to talk about it and impart that to the suits the better I think.

[Gibby]

To some extent, I agree with Clay about MCWL. He sings the songs on MCWL very differently when he's singing them live. He takes some of the tempos slower (WAYDNE), uses a lot more rubato and sings them in a jazzier, almost sultry manner. Others, he takes faster (WW and SR) and makes them bouncier and happier. Although I love the quality of the recording on MCWL, I really do like how he sings them live. I'm sooooo grateful for good-quality audio clack, so that I can enjoy these songs the way Clay likes to sing them.

[cha cha trusty]

The stew's on and it's still yucky outside. I wish we had some firewood!

I will be waiting patiently for the delivery man, to see WTF I ordered and try to remember who I got it for! If I have everything wrapped by the day before I have to give it, I consider myself ahead of the game!!