#30: Faith has conquered fear...on my way here!

[KAndre]

But in lots of ways all of us ARE predictable - I bet most here have a good idea where I will fall on any issue (and frankly, if the rest of the eHP posted more, would mock me for). Honestly, has anyone in here said anything really that just made your jaw drop? The "disappointed" people are predictable, the "Oooo! Yes, I already have nine copies of that song but it's a NEW picture (that I also have but we won't mention that, will we?)" people are predictable - even the silent majority of lurkers ("Are we still lurking in our silent majority?" "Yes!" "OK, good work, lurkers! Stay quiet!") are predictable. If you don't like being predictable, then shock people occasionally.

Though this is sort of reminding me of July of 2007 and the notorious sound check - What? Diff'rent Strokes? All In The Family? You've got to be kidding me, Charles In Charge? You've got to be fucking kidding me?

Heh.

Wait, do philosophers say fucking? Change that to ... nah, I can't think of a better adjective!

And exactly 1 week from this minute, I should be taxiing into Newark, growling at the person squished in next to me, and waving madly at the rest of eHP on the plane!

[Iseeme]

Carmen, listening to you sing 3 times could have felt like a lifetime to Byrd.

Bwah - and good morning. When I read that Google alert the first thing that came to my mind was here was yet another ex-Idol contestant dropping Clay's name, knowing it would get attention!!! To this day I can't understand how Carmen made it as far as she did!!! Maybe Clay ASKED for help! We know he was pretty serious during the competition and tried very hard to do his best! But then there is the unalterable fact that Byrd, et.al. knew who the contenders were!

Loved the comment from David Foster......even if he IS a little prejudiced!!! The man definitely knows music!

I guess if someone is disappointed in the QVC deal, whatever it is, just don't buy it!! I agree that whatever it is has a purpose and someone put alot of thought in to the bonus tracks and the audience they want to reach. Over the last 5 years I've noticed that no matter what Clay does it isn't enough for a portion of the fanbase - or it isn't marketed right, or it wasn't the right choice, or should'a, would'a. could'a! yada! yada! I guess some folks just like to see their thoughts in print. Anyhoo, it is what it is! I know I'll buy it even if he's singing the New York City phone book! I have this silly obsession about all things Clay Aiken! I'm sure when I die (sometime in the far distant future.....)and my son cleans out my house he'll be dumbstruck when he finds (1) my quilting fabric stash and (2) my Clay Aiken stash!

If I've counted correctly, Clay has 21 performances of Spam left. I wish! wish! wish! I was going closing night. I expect it's going to be a bittersweet occasion for him - he's made friends, been accepted completely, done a FANTASTIC job....but it's probably also very exciting to have a new CD coming out that has his stamp all over it.

OH and Happy Anniversary to IdyJ and her hubby!

[Couch Tomato]

Who you calling predictable heee. Hell I know I am. I've always looked at this whole thing as a journey... so I try to step out of myself first and see what they are up to. I just think it's a great strategy. But I'll wait to see if this news is accurate anyway.

Forgot to say...October in Raleigh... maybe. Anyway body else going?

But forgot to say...EARTHQUAKE? What? Hope everyone is ok. off to read about this.

[Claygasm]

I guess some folks just like to see their thoughts in print.

That's right. I just like to see my thoughts in print.

Thanks a lot.

[Iseeme]

I guess some folks just like to see their thoughts in print.

That's right. I just like to see my thoughts in print.

Thanks a lot.

Not sure why you think I'm talking about you! Weren't we all generalizing?

[ldyjocelyn]

Thanks for the anniversary wishes, everyone!

I was thinking AGAIN (I could get used to this thinking stuff - it seems to be occasionally interesting. Ain't gonna do too much of it though - don't want my brain to get all lumpy.), maybe the five bonus thingies are to show where he came from "On His Way Here". And one of the things he came from was a super HAWT stud singing "This Is The Night" and not in a family friendly way. And if you strip away the friendly sweaters and smooth hair and charming smile, there's a feral creature underneath waiting to BITE you. In interesting spots. No, no, ldyj - you go on and "entertain" yourself in other ways - we will wait patiently for you.

I like my idea. I think it has nothing to do with the truth, but like that's gonna stop me?

I like your idea too. So much so, that I had the same one this morning (just didn't get a chance to post it before you did *g*). It's been an interesting journey for him...in more than music. It's been a journey through -- how many different stylists? Yeah, the TITN video looks nothing like Clay Aiken today....but Clay Aiken TODAY doesn't look like ATDW Clay Aiken either to me. And I find I'm always surprised when I see a wallpaper come up on my computer (via my wallpaper changer) with AI Clay/2003 Clay/2004 Clay, and how much he HAS physically changed just over the span of 5 years. It makes my jaw drop to see that "kid" as compared to the man he is today. Yet, all in all, he's still just Clay. Man of many different looks, but still just Clay.

I don't think that's bitchy really. Clay got special treatment too and frankly I think that's ok to say if it's the truth. It wasn't just Ruben, on the show, or apparantly behind the scenes. It's not the first time we've heard this.

ITA.

TGIF it's been one hell of a week. I could blow up that Job Woes thread if I were so inclined heh.

Oh man, so could I! I need a drink. And they tell me we just had another aftershock that could be felt here -- except that I DIDN'T. AGAIN.

But in lots of ways all of us ARE predictable - I bet most here have a good idea where I will fall on any issue (and frankly, if the rest of the eHP posted more, would mock me for). Honestly, has anyone in here said anything really that just made your jaw drop? The "disappointed" people are predictable, the "Oooo! Yes, I already have nine copies of that song but it's a NEW picture (that I also have but we won't mention that, will we?)" people are predictable - even the silent majority of lurkers ("Are we still lurking in our silent majority?" "Yes!" "OK, good work, lurkers! Stay quiet!") are predictable. If you don't like being predictable, then shock people occasionally.

I understand! I know what side I fall in as well (and I think most here do too). So my surprise at the fandom really doesn't happen much anymore.

And exactly 1 week from this minute, I should be taxiing into Newark, growling at the person squished in next to me, and waving madly at the rest of eHP on the plane!

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[KAndre]

KAndre thinks guiltily about the absolutely gorgeous fabric she bought on sale maybe 17 years ago back when actually sewed...it's white silk charmeuse! I can't get rid of it! I think it would be immoral to throw it away! Really! I can use it for something! I sure I'll get right on it...it's followed me through my last 5 moves!

[Iseeme]

Iseeme looks guiltily toward the double closet she had shelves installed in for her fabric....and then at the dozen or so project bags laying on the floor full of ....what else....fabric! Eep....and what's that stacked on half the shelves in the linen closet....OH NO! I think it's more fabric. Fortunately I can't quilt with silk charmeuse or I'd make you an offer.......

[PermaSwooned]

I've been catching up a bit and saw that there were questions about a Bay Area CD release party.

Evidently they weren't getting tons of responses for something in San Francisco proper, but there is a party planned. There's a late dinner/dessert at the Friday's in Union Landing, and then going to the Walmart in Union City at midnight for the CDs.

It was very interesting to me that the organizer said she had given an updated count of CDs needed to the manager she's working with at Walmart to be sure they'd have enough, and her current count was 60. The store manager told her "no problem", since she was ordering 250!!!

Wow!!! That's optimistic stocking, for sure. Hope she knows something!!

Anyhoo: here's the link at the CD party planning board.

http://www.clayaikencdparties.com/forums/i...=1075&st=20

In SoCal, we've had parties in Hollywood for everything except All Is Well, which nobody could find anyway. All my local friends are going, but I will be in NY post-Spamalot. It will be fun to get a different perspective and a see a few new faces.

A few thoughts about Clive Davis. I see his "reassignment" as inevitable. It doesn't really have as much to do with his age, I don't think. He had almost always been (except for one brief period), one of the most powerful men in the music business. He had a tremendous amount of clout. He was able to revive some careers (Santana, Rod Stewart, Barry Manilow) by retooling their "product" and lauch some true mega-stars like Alicia Keyes. BUT, I don't think he was able to be adaptable to the changes in the music industry; I think he lost the ability to see when things weren't working any more (the decline of the American Songbook series); I think he got way too invested in wanting artists to kiss his ring, as it were and treated them with disdain or indifference if they didn't; I think he became less hands-on with projects and let them spin out of control; and I think that he lost the "touch" in working with artists and deciding who to promote and how to promote them.

When the labels started bleeding money, I can't imagine that it went over well that he would let Clay pick his own (relatively green) exec. producer, sponsor a big Nashville search for songs (on the theme of "Where I Belong"), record 4 albums worth of material, before finally paying attention and then scrapping the whole thing and starting over. I have difficulty thinking that Sony/BMG is happy that they scrapped a good portion of Jennifer Hudson's album and have started over with that one. He's putting lot's of time, money and effort into resuscitating Whitney Houston, and even David Foster said at one point he didn't think that album would EVER reach completion. If he didn't think Kelly Clarkson could come up with viable songs, he did not really exert control over her until there was a whole album he didn't really like. He let the whole thing turn into a huge media deal and then just let the album sputter out. She was HUGE when that album hit, and he COULD have made it bigger than it turned out to be if he hadn't played it down in MANY forums before it came out.

After "mandating" a love songs cover album for Clay, he could have set it up to be a big success, even if it was along the RodS/BarryM mold. A lot of hyperbole about "classic love songs", "timeless", "sung by the voice of his generation" "bringing these heartfelt songs to a new generation"....whatever, instead of letting the label's own PR consistently yammer on about "covers". Meanwhile, the PR for Mario Vasquez set him up to be the new star of the century. That was certainly a disastrous call on his part.

I think it must have seemed like King Midas had finally lost his "golden" touch. JMHO.

I see I need to go download the yummy Amazon video in a larger format. I need to do that before I head to the office.

Latah, all.

[playbiller]

There is always the better the devil you know - what do we know about the replacements? Could go either way, I don't whine or celebrate untilI have more information.

[PermaSwooned]

There is always the better the devil you know - what do we know about the replacements? Could go either way, I don't whine or celebrate untilI have more information.

This is absolutely true. I have no idea if this transition will help Clay at all, I was just commenting that I really thought that Clive's era had come to an inevitable end and my reasons for thinking this.

Someone on CV posted a link to the following article by Bob Lefsetz but it didn't work. ellenpoppy at CH just posted this working link to his article on "Clive's Demise". Interesting stuff.

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/

[claytonic]

That Amazon video of Clay in the Studio recording On My Way Here is now on YouTube

PermaSwooned .

.. so THAT's what's going on with Jennifer Hudson's album? I love Jennifer Hudson almost as much as I love Fantasia. Dreamgirls is the ONLY DVD movie I have actually bought for myself. I thought they'd get her album out to capitalize on all that momentum Jennifer had going last year.

[Iseeme]

Interesting read........verra verra interesting! And he made alot of sense with his analysis! Times do change and big corporate cheeses have to change with them if their company is going to continue to grow. I guess we won't really know how this is going to effect Clay until he either leaves the label or puts out the next CD after OMWH.

And even more interesting if Kelly DOES put out a CD of her own stuff that bombs........And I wondered why Jennifer's CD didn't come out posthaste after her Academy Award! One wonders if Clive will get the last laugh......

Perma - thanks for the info on the Bay Area CD Release party. I was getting emails from DreamWeaver for awhile but they've stopped. I think that group has kind of gone away. Unfortunately, Union City is about 5 hours away from me....think I'll just have to be patient and be at the WalMart door when it opens the next day!

[ldyjocelyn]

Via Salamander at the CH -- a possible way for KAndre to like Clay's blond hair!

He does kind of look like Legolas!

[claytonic]

I wonder if JHud had anything to do with the delays with her album.

She would have been in a position to have some say in the creativity and content of her first album, since she would no longer have been chained to the Idol machine, unlike the other Idols released albums while they were still under contract to American Idol.

[KAndre]

It's interesting - and a lot of it's seems true but man, I dislike his sneering at Alicia Keys and Mariah Carey and others - I don't particularly find his old stuff any more memorable than my old stuff. Oooh, and Manilow "looked like a giant". Because those 76 million albums he managed to sell were an illusion. Probably because I do like them, and have liked Mariah for more than 20 years. And a lot of those "pop hits" - Aretha's stuff. Taylor Dayne's stuff. Outkast. And he's basically saying Davis did absolutely nothing. Clive David has issues - yes, but I intensely dislike the minimizing of what he DID do and maximizing of what he DIDN'T as much as I dislike Clive's claiming to be responsible for every thing good that's happened in music in the last 100 years. I did read his little bio blurb: "Famous for being beholden to no one and speaking the truth" - yeah, right, he's an entertainment attorney (just like Clive!) and a consultant to "major labels". At this point, he seems to be a dude who's been ranting for the last 20 years - and the entire article is not exactly fact as it's his opinion. I looked at some of his other "rants" and lost interest. Feh again. Here's a Washington Post article on the dude.

Hmmm, Clay as Legolas...the ears help...but he either needs to go balls to the wall platinum or back to chestnut - none of this wishy-washy blond for me!

[Couch Tomato]

Perma thanks for the No cal party info. I think I'll skip it this time although my enthusiasm for Clay is higher than ever. Mostly because I don't want to get home from a ten day Clay trip and then run in, drop my luggage, and then run out the door to attend another Clay event.

[YSRN]

K is on a roll!

And if you strip away the friendly sweaters and smooth hair and charming smile, there's a feral creature underneath waiting to BITE you.

God help me, I just had a horrifying picture of Mr. Rogers gettin' jiggy wit it.

Humans build up excitement which is then either exceeded, met, or falls to disappointment. It's not like it's some big sekrit. What are we supposed to be, rocks?

Over the last 5 years I've noticed that no matter what Clay does it isn't enough for a portion of the fanbase - or it isn't marketed right, or it wasn't the right choice, or should'a, would'a. could'a! yada! yada!

I don't think it has anything to do with being "enough". It's just that people have preferences in life. If someone goes on vacation and the resort serves a prize-winning specialty chocolate cake for dessert and you just don't happen to like chocolate cake, saying so isn't a reflection on how much work the resort put into making your vacation speshul, it's just a statement of preference over a dessert. Not a judgement on their performance. It's not like they said, if they serve chocolate cake on that cruise I'm never going again; more like I won't have the dessert. And well, this is a message board, so it's kinda like "well, you asked". If I can't put my thoughts in print, what else am I supposed to do... ya know?

Perma, I'd have to agree with you about Clive. Big labels forgot to get on the leading edge. The reason Microsoft/Apple/HP, etc., make it is because they constantly retool to the consumer needs (or at least make us think we want what they are offering -- or trap us into needing it. LOL!). R&D vs. OMG, I can make money off THAT! Big music labels stayed status quo for too long -- trying to live in the early glut of success and forgetting to grow along with the rest of us. I do think Clive is a legend... who outlived (metaphorically) his success. Peter Principle and all that. He was brilliant in his day tho. Until he became more about the business than the art -- but... such is the potential pitfall of corporate greed.

I give Clay (and everyone else who worked under Clive) great kudos for knowing how to play within the confines of the dynasty. You can either find a way to make it work and learn all you can with great personal reward, or you can fight it, get nowhere, and become bitter. IMHO. Everyone comes at this stuff differently.

I do enjoy the Lefsetz Letters, but they're just his take. Just like all those Mobster Mafia books on the music business written by pissed off former employees. They just come off to me like the guy with a gun in the post office. Meh.

Clay's got a better spirit about him than that. I believe.

I've never been to a CD Release Party. I prefer to experience my first night in private.

Happy Anniversary, LadyJ!!

[PermaSwooned]

Evidently, JHud's album was being developed with a lot of big-voiced "Dreamgirls" type songs. The comment was that they were trying to turn her into Aretha Franklin. They decided that wasn't going to sell.

They started over with one reference to a great Timbaland track. Yuck. Personally, I would have loved to hear a more old school type album from her. I would have bought it.

Here's a short blurb about the album scrapping with a quote from the ubiquitous Mr. Ryan Tedder:

http://hiphop.popcrunch.com/jennifer-hudso...r-hudson-album/

I HATES so many of the new female "hits". I first saw Mariah Carey way back in the day when she was on "Midnight at the Apollo" or whatever that show was called late on Saturday nights. She just blew me away singing "Visions of Love". What a voice! What a range!! I own that album and still like most of it.

So who was that person on AI this week singing "Bye bye" all soft and breathy and repetitive and stuff? Sheesh. Hillary Duff could have sung that song just as well. What a waste!!

[KAndre]

Damn you, YSRN!

get out the BIG SOS pad and gets to work on her brain, trying desperately NOT to think about "It's a Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood"...

I'm always on a roll when I don't feel like working...

Besides your EVIL mental images (gets a new SOS pad and scrubs some more), I totally agree.

[Scarlett]

Well, I was just trying to explain why some - including me - are disappointed and why that is ok and I don't think its fair to call them "predictable" like that is a bad thing and I did say Clay said himself there was something for everyone

But in lots of ways all of us ARE predictable - I bet most here have a good idea where I will fall on any issue (and frankly, if the rest of the eHP posted more, would mock me for). Honestly, has anyone in here said anything really that just made your jaw drop? The "disappointed" people are predictable, the "Oooo! Yes, I already have nine copies of that song but it's a NEW picture (that I also have but we won't mention that, will we?)" people are predictable - even the silent majority of lurkers ("Are we still lurking in our silent majority?" "Yes!" "OK, good work, lurkers! Stay quiet!") are predictable. If you don't like being predictable, then shock people occasionally.

Heh! I predicted that you each would say the above!!! LOL!

ITA with the "shock people occasionally" part.

And exactly 1 week from this minute, I should be taxiing into Newark, growling at the person squished in next to me, and waving madly at the rest of eHP on the plane!

Exactly 1 week less 1 day, I should be taxiing into Newark. Does anyone have room for 1 petite person on Thursday night? (I've slept with just about everyone here so don't worry about the ehp temperature discussion. And I promise not to open any windows unexpectedly. (see, no one predicted that one nor the Pala ravine)

Happy Anniversary, ldj!

[claytonic]

Some interesting stuff at Wikipedia about Clive. Here's an extract. I would be very interested to see how well Whitney's album sells.

In 2000, Davis ran into disagreements with Arista owners BMG (a member of the Bertelsmann group) as they thought due to his age (late sixties at the time), he may not still have a hold on current music trends; thus not making the label as successful as it had been. He was forced to retire as a result, despite many protests from present and former artists. He then formed his own label, J Records, in which Bertelsmann ended up investing $150,000,000. In building his new company, some of his first signings were recording artists Monica, Luther Vandross and Alicia Keys. BMG agreed to market and distribute the label's output. That year, Davis was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in the non-performers branch. Three years later, at the beginning of 2003 and after much success with his own label J, BMG asked Davis to come back into the fold, naming him head of RCA Records. One year later, Davis was promoted to Chairman and CEO of BMG North America by Rolf Schmidt-Holtz. He now oversees J Records, Arista, RCA, and Jive Records and the careers of such artists as Britney Spears, Justin Timberlake, Leona Lewis, Christina Aguilera, Clay Aiken, Fantasia, Jennifer Hudson, Carrie Underwood, Alicia Keys, Kelly Clarkson, and Daughtry. Arista Records will be releasing an album by Whitney Houston, whom Davis has called the greatest singer in the world, in 2008.

For those who don't know much about Leona Lewis, I followed her progress on the X-Factor via YouTube and she was just incredible, and often described as a cross between Whitney and Mariah. She and Il Divo did an amazing performance of "Somewhere" on Simon Cowell's This is Your Life.

(Simon has openly stated that Leona Lewis is his favourite contestant of all time)

[KAndre]

I'm willing to give Leona a shot (despite the praise by Cowell, because I can't stand Il Divo or the Spice Girls either) - though I don't like Bleeding Love so far and and hoping she doesn't turn out like the last R&B wonder from the UK, some redheaded white girl who's name I can't remember.

Oh yeah, I looked it up - I was think of Joss Stone. She managed to pull out gold on her last album, but I don't see her as much. Didn't like her either.

[Couch Tomato]

And if you strip away the friendly sweaters and smooth hair and charming smile, there's a feral creature underneath waiting to BITE you.

is this too long for a thread title? eek

The reason Microsoft/Apple/HP, etc., make it is because they constantly retool to the consumer needs (or at least make us think we want what they are offering -- or trap us into needing it. LOL!). R&D vs. OMG, I can make money off THAT! Big music labels stayed status quo for too long -- trying to live in the early glut of success and forgetting to grow along with the rest of us. I do think Clive is a legend... who outlived (metaphorically) his success. Peter Principle and all that. He was brilliant in his day tho. Until he became more about the business than the art -- but... such is the potential pitfall of corporate greed.

I give Clay (and everyone else who worked under Clive) great kudos for knowing how to play within the confines of the dynasty. You can either find a way to make it work and learn all you can with great personal reward, or you can fight it, get nowhere, and become bitter. IMHO. Everyone comes at this stuff differently.

I do enjoy the Lefsetz Letters, but they're just his take. Just like all those Mobster Mafia books on the music business written by pissed off former employees. They just come off to me like the guy with a gun in the post office. Meh.

Clay's got a better spirit about him than that. I believe.

I so agree with everything you wrote especially the bolded part. I know my cousin feels like it is all falling down around her and they are just too slow in coming up with new ways to deal with all the new technology. They spent so long trying to fight it and now they are being dragged along trying to play catch up and the way they deal with it is by cutting staff and closing offices to keep up with the status quo. I've not followed Clive's career so dont' know much about him outside of Clay which doesn't give me a complete picture, BUT, it will be interesting to see what the company does to stay relevant. I mean IMO the ipod is one of the best things ever invented, second only to the internet and my ability to download anything I want. Now, how are THEY going to make me want to spend money on their product. I do it for Clay cuz I want to support him. I don't feel that way about anybody else.

I posted an article here about Jennifer's album delays awhile ago. I think she was always way too behind the curve to get out an album in time to take advantage of her Dream Girls success (I think she only got the contract after it became apparant she stole the movie although I could be wrong about that). I mean sometimes you just don't know when that lightening in a bottle is going to hit. Yeah they could have thrown something together quickly but that would be a bit cynical. But when they did go into the studio they should have known what they really wanted and not chuck most of the stuff and start all over. I love Jennifer too..she was my favorite from Season 3 but she was very raw and had good and bad performances and just never seem to get America behind her. But she was impproving every week and if she could have just held out another week or two I think she could have taken the whole thing because she really was getting better. Claytonic, I love Fanny too. It will be interesting to see if they time her album vs her Color Purple role any better. But again I don't think the timing will work since she will complete her album before they even start filming TCP and you never know if she will become an "it" girl like Jennifer did last year. That's really a rare thing.

[Ansamcw]

Frankly Perma...I liked your analysis better than that guy in the article. I think I had the same reaction as KAndre...the guy was too dismissive of some people while extolling the virtues of people I never even heard of.

I do agree with your examples. I think Clay was just one of the artist that Clive didn't understand. I don't think he was wrong about Kelly's CD but he didn't know her as a person and an artist to know how to handle her and get her to take his advice without having to resort to letting her cd fail. Then the jhud and whitney projects still pending...one could say he did have a bunch of problematic projects. I do think it is time for him to step down. I do wonder if that is how Clay was able to get this project done in time. Maybe Clive was too busy trying to save his own position to scrutinize the contents and possibly delay the project. But I still don;t know if this is a good change for Clay...will simply concentrate on the cd at hand.