#41: Clay Aiken Makes His Triumphant Return!

[Lotus]

I have a request. When you refer to a post at OFC of Clays or Jaymes or a particularly great one could you please note the post # and if possible the page?

Thanks.

I just cannot read all that is there because some of the holier than thou posts make me so angry I'm ready to spit nails and that means my blood pressure goes up...not good.

[merryclay]

I'm of the opinion that Clay was strongly advised by his handlers to not come out, that it would be career suicide because of his mostly women fanbase.

I don't believe that.

It's ok if you maintain your position CG. One less person to kill at the alter.

Bookwhore will you marry me? Let's all have sympathy unconventional lifestyles together why don't we.

Awww thanks justforfun. Come back and see us again!

Couch, it's done all the time, particularly with people right out of the chute like he was at Idol. Image is very important, particularly when they have a fanbase like Clays. I think that caution plus wanting to save his family from the pain were all part of it. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think Clay knew what to do. He got some bad advice.

It all just got out of control and I don't think he knew what to do. He had to have been scared.

[claytonic]

Here's the thing, if Clay had been dating a lot of girls (or even just one steady girl) and pretended to be in love with them, or married someone just to have the baby he always wanted or to hide his sexuality, then that would have made him a liar.

The fact that he NEVER dated girls was an act of sheer honesty.

There's none so blind as those who refuse to see.

Clay didn't lie to us, we chose to see/believe what we wanted to believe/see, i.e. Clelly, Clyra, Clannah, Clangela. Clay's antics on stage with Angela were part of the show. During SYTYCD, were all those couples dancing sexily together straight and in a relationship? No, they were performing.

The more I think about it, the more I realize Clay didn't lie. All he did was to refuse to answer certain questions until he was ready to; questions that should not have been asked of him. But he was so right when he said "people will believe what they want to believe."

[merryclay]

Here's the thing, if Clay had been dating a lot of girls (or even just one steady girl) and pretended to be in love with them, or married someone just to have the baby he always wanted or to hide his sexuality, then that would have made him a liar.

The fact that he NEVER dated girls was an act of sheer honesty.

There's none so blind as those who refuse to see.

Clay didn't lie to us, we chose to see/believe what we wanted to believe/see, i.e. Clelly, Clyra, Clannah, Clangela. Clay's antics on stage with Angela were part of the show. During SYTYCD, were all those couples dancing sexily together straight and in a relationship? No, they were performing.

The more I think about it, the more I realize Clay didn't lie. All he did was to refuse to answer certain questions until he was ready to; questions that should not have been asked of him. But he was so right when he said "people will believe what they want to believe."

Absolute word.

[luckiest1]

Not trying to play devil's advocate, but I didn't know we were privy to the details of Clay's dates. Not that, at this point, I think he's spent the last few years dating girls. LOL. Doesn't mean he never dated them, though. I dated a guy for 2 years and then a married another one for 14 years. I had 3 kids with him. I'm still gay. Lies? Oy, done my fair share of those over the years..........obviously. It definitely feels much better when you are in a place where you can stop lying and start being honest with yourself and those around you. I'm not going to judge Clay.

I guess I'm gonna have to go wade through the muck at the OFC to pull Jaymes' posts out myself, am I? Ok then. Thank God I have figured out the search function over there.

I was mainly offline last night because it was my mom's birthday and my kids and I took her out for dinner. It was a lot of fun, my kids invited their friends who think their Grandma is a cool lady, and we crammed 10 into a table that had a max of 8. Hee. My mom slopped rib sauce down her shirt, my daughter regaled us all with some of the funnier signs she is learning in her ASL course at school, and my son and his friends kept us laughing with inappropriate comments. Someone signed Clay's name on the birthday card, not sure who. We had quite a discussion of the People article when we all got home. It was a fun, fun night.

Looking forward to the clack from Paula's Party later. Wish I got that channel here, but I've heard that even if I do subscribe to Food TV, it's not the same Food TV that y'all get in the USA.

ETA: Created a Word file from Jaymes' posts yesterday. If anyone wants it, PM me your email addy. The vase/kitchen/cup of sugar analogy made me laugh!

[KAndre]

One of the problems I have with the stark statement "Clay LIED" is because LIED is such a trigger word. For me, what Clay said about his sexuality earlier is like the difference being killing and murder (lie being murder). Like if JP comes up to me with a knife with intent to kill me. I shoot his ass dead. (Hey, I might as well enjoy the analogy). And somebody keeps telling me, "Well, yes, it's understandable; yes, it's justifiable; but it's still MURDER. Killing people for whatever reason is MURDER. If he was about to blow up a busload of orphans and kittens while wearing a KKK robe howling William Hung sings better than Clay Aiken, it's still MURDER". And I say no, it's KILLING. English needs a word to distinguish between statements like "They have weapons of mass destruction" or "I did not have sex with that woman" (bipartisan! That's me!) and "I'm not going to discuss the issue" while grinding against Angela.

Y'all are too into marriage, I'm just gonna fool around with all the hot people I like.

ETA

No, no, laljeterfan, let me stretch my analogy like a rubber band (Hey! I'm on a roll!) - your lie was the equivalent of involuntary homicide! You can still address the issue if only to look at amazement in my English stuff! Is it obvious I was a science major?

[laljeterfan]

I don't know who WendyWink (I think that's right) is on OFC but I LOVED her post on that notorious, nefarious, sometimes noxious People Mag thread over there. Very thoughtful and...kinda hit home with me, actually---re how the news hit and her self examination of her reaction to it....

I agree. This post said many of the same things I have been thinking, with many of the same reactions I have been having. I thought about asking last night if I could bring the post over, but I figured that was prohibited.

Here's the thing, if Clay had been dating a lot of girls (or even just one steady girl) and pretended to be in love with them, or married someone just to have the baby he always wanted or to hide his sexuality, then that would have made him a liar.

The fact that he NEVER dated girls was an act of sheer honesty.

There's none so blind as those who refuse to see.

Clay didn't lie to us, we chose to see/believe what we wanted to believe/see, i.e. Clelly, Clyra, Clannah, Clangela. Clay's antics on stage with Angela were part of the show. During SYTYCD, were all those couples dancing sexily together straight and in a relationship? No, they were performing.

The more I think about it, the more I realize Clay didn't lie. All he did was to refuse to answer certain questions until he was ready to; questions that should not have been asked of him. But he was so right when he said "people will believe what they want to believe."

(2nd bolded passage in the above post is mine)

I know I said last night that I would stop trying to defend myself over this issue, but I guess I lied. I believed what I believed about his orientation because of what he, himself said. Had he refused to answer the question outright, or been vague about it from the beginning, I may have come to a different conclusion far sooner. And when he said that he was done talking about it, and "people will believe what they want to believe", I honestly felt, because of what he had previously said, that he was talking about all of those who "knew" he was gay. What a shock for me to discover he was actually talking about ME! But again- I only believed what he told me- if he had told me from the beginning that he was gay (and yes, I certainly understand why he didn't), I would have had no reason not to believe him.

OK, I promise I will TRY not to add my input on this subject ever again. I will be strong!

[merrieeee]

Did he lie, didn't he lie has just gotten so old. What difference does that make now? The guy just did something momentous that could affect his career, family and his very life and that's all some can think of.

I am in awe of the guy. He has more understanding and class in his little finger than some of those people over at the OFC if you lumped them all together. I don't know if I could read post after post of people calling me names and bashing me. Yet in the middle of it all he gets with the mods to try and get some sense in that thread.

He and his whole family have to be hurting right now and yet he reaches out to try and help those also hurting.

I still want to have his babies! I know too late but a even if he is gay a girl can still dream.

[KAndre]

I still want to have his babies! I know too late but a even if he is gay a girl can still dream.

OK, this falls under not guilty by reason of temporary insanity. merrieeee, you know perfectly well you just want to do naughty things, and nine months later say something like, "Oops! Not preggers yet! Let's try again! I'm sure it'll work this time!"

[merrieeee]

It all depends on your definition of naughty!!!!

You know it is kind of weird being able to write Clay is gay.

[KAndre]

[FearofH2O]

I have a request. When you refer to a post at OFC of Clays or Jaymes or a particularly great one could you please note the post # and if possible the page?

Thanks.

I just cannot read all that is there because some of the holier than thou posts make me so angry I'm ready to spit nails and that means my blood pressure goes up...not good.

I am flabbergasted at some of those posts. I had to report one of the nastier ones. I suggested if they couldn't edit, could they make a few just disappear? Those few (thank goodness) really give religion a bad name. Even though I live in the bible belt, most of my very religious friends are way more tolerant. They wouldn't be friends if they weren't. And I think one of the reasons they are tolerant is due to their having family members and acquaintances who are gay.

For the first time, that I'm aware of, we have an openly gay man running for state office. He has the bravura he needs but is not the most well informed, unfortunately. But then again neither is his opponent. Clay is way more informed about politics.

Maybe I'm naive or maybe because I'm not a smutter (too old), his sexuality is not an important thing to me. I believed him when I thought he was straight and I believe him now when he says he's gay. But no matter what I will always believe that he is very careful and would not use the internet to find one night stands. No way, no how.

I'm far from the first to say this but: He is still a humanitarian, singer, entertainer, actor, lyricist, author, son, friend to many and most of all a great father. Sorry CG, but Parker added another element to Clay that I find most interesting. Parker closes the circle which may expand if Clay finds the perfect love.

Clay forever. :thbighug-1:

I know play didn't mean to stereotype by saying John D had a key to Clay's house. I think it was, and this is just my guess, that some of us didn't think of him as a friend of Clay's, just as another member of TC. Now I can see some of us were protecting Clay from the djs and gossip sites that mocked him and other gay men. I think John was a good friend for Clay and probably set an example for him as to how a gay man can have a career and life in our society. I doubt Clay saw very many gay men who were out in Raleigh when he was a boy.

I am going to admit here that as a young mom, I worried about my sons having contact with gay men I didn't know. I truly believed that it was in the DNA but moms can be irrational when in the protective mode. Maybe that's why Faye still is working on acceptance. I did have a gay transvestite do some work for me when I first started out in business and loved him to death as did my sons. But he was just John, not the gay or the transvestite, we knew him. Fortunately I've grown and my sons are very accepting of most people. Except my oldest son, an atheist, who can't get a handle on bigots who are using religion as an excuse.

We need play, the emoticon queen back. Hope you're feeling better.

Sorry for the epic. Have a great day!

ETA: Kandre and merrieee

Lies, shmies, if you can't tell a few your not going to succeed in business.

[aikim]

Good Morning Everyone,

Clay is Partying with Paula tonight! 6:00 for those in the central time zone!

21 Days until The BAF Gala!

27 Days until Clay is Roasting Matt Lauer!

Everyone have a great day!

Kim

[Scarlett]

Not trying to play devil's advocate, but I didn't know we were privy to the details of Clay's dates. Not that, at this point, I think he's spent the last few years dating girls. LOL. Doesn't mean he never dated them, though. I dated a guy for 2 years and then a married another one for 14 years. I had 3 kids with him. I'm still gay. Lies? Oy, done my fair share of those over the years..........obviously. It definitely feels much better when you are in a place where you can stop lying and start being honest with yourself and those around you. I'm not going to judge Clay.

I guess I'm gonna have to go wade through the muck at the OFC to pull Jaymes' posts out myself, am I? Ok then. Thank God I have figured out the search function over there.

I was mainly offline last night because it was my mom's birthday and my kids and I took her out for dinner. It was a lot of fun, my kids invited their friends who think their Grandma is a cool lady, and we crammed 10 into a table that had a max of 8. Hee. My mom slopped rib sauce down her shirt, my daughter regaled us all with some of the funnier signs she is learning in her ASL course at school, and my son and his friends kept us laughing with inappropriate comments. Someone signed Clay's name on the birthday card, not sure who. We had quite a discussion of the People article when we all got home. It was a fun, fun night.

Looking forward to the clack from Paula's Party later. Wish I got that channel here, but I've heard that even if I do subscribe to Food TV, it's not the same Food TV that y'all get in the USA.

ETA: Created a Word file from Jaymes' posts yesterday. If anyone wants it, PM me your email addy. The vase/kitchen/cup of sugar analogy made me laugh!

luckiest, if you have both of their posts, would you please e-mail them to me too? You ready have my addy, don'tcha?

I'm thinking about Mary from Cary. Can't remember exactly what Clay said on stage that night but it gave people the impression that she was someone who might have a chance. But he can't control people's impressions because every person reads things their own way -- "I see you not as you are but as I am." Just like the way some people took Jaymes' early posts at FCA as their license to also go and tell others who was right and who was wrong, it's a reaction from people and they're not responsible for those.

Continuing KAndre's analogy, it's as if some people saw Clay accidentally kill someone and then they took up arms and formed a vigilante group and started murdering people on their own.

I like it when merrieeee's being naughty... (wait, that's like saying I like her all the time!)

[merrieeee]

I like it when merrieeee's being naughty... (wait, that's like saying I like her all the time!)

Hey wait! I resemble that remark!

[claytonic]

Not trying to play devil's advocate, but I didn't know we were privy to the details of Clay's dates. Not that, at this point, I think he's spent the last few years dating girls. LOL. Doesn't mean he never dated them, though.

I dated a guy for 2 years and then a married another one for 14 years. I had 3 kids with him. I'm still gay. Lies? Oy, done my fair share of those over the years..........obviously. It definitely feels much better when you are in a place where you can stop lying and start being honest with yourself and those around you. I'm not going to judge Clay.

While I realize assumptions are never a good thing, it seems logical to me that a man who is being relentlessly pursued by the tabloid media (over a period of 5 years) about his sexual orientation would not be keeping his female dates a secret. Not even one was ever unearthed. Now we know why.

Did he lie, didn't he lie has just gotten so old. What difference does that make now?

The guy just did something momentous that could affect his career, family and his very life and that's all some can think of.

It matters to me. The difference is that his integrity is being questioned because he is perceived by some to be a liar, and I think if a clearer light can be shed in order to dispel the attack on his character, I’d be happy to be on Jaymes’ side, helping to highlight that point. I’m not saying he’s a saint, but stand him next to the average person and he still “smells” a lot better than the rest. There is a big difference between a devious liar and someone who was trying to protect his privacy and the feelings of his family. I won’t stand for an attack on his good character and integrity.

[bottlecap]

laljeterfan, you're by far the only one who understood Clay to be saying directly or indirectly that he was straight. I've even used that line of reasoning to my sister when she'd ask me with a snicker (most recently after watching the Holiday Skating show) if he was gay. That's certainly what I was going since the beginning of my fandom. I guess for me, the surprise of his coming out was blunted by circumstances of Parker's birth this summer. While I'd always had the possibility way in the back of my mind that maybe Clay was gay, the relationship with Jaymes brought it to the forefront.

I guess the bottom line for me is that I want Clay to be happy. My specific dream for him was to be a father, because I did and do believe he wanted that so much. I honestly never expected he'd take this route to get there, but I can't be anything but pleased for him. Family is so much more important than anything else in life, including a career or fans or whatnot.

I respect that we are all over the place right now, and that's more than okay. I hope nobody feels like they have to hide their struggles with their feelings. They are what they are, and I don't think respectful discussion should be squashed.

===============================================

And yeah, I'd love to have a new kick-ass TV appearance to discuss and dissect and EEEEEE over. Soon, I hope! C'mon Tina Fey - write Clay a great cameo part in "30 Rock".

OH! - I forgot about Paula's Party tonight! Thanks for the reminder, aikim! Can't wait for the Clack.

[claytonic]

One of the problems I have with the stark statement "Clay LIED" is because LIED is such a trigger word. For me, what Clay said about his sexuality earlier is like the difference being killing and murder (lie being murder). Like if JP comes up to me with a knife with intent to kill me. I shoot his ass dead. (Hey, I might as well enjoy the analogy). And somebody keeps telling me, "Well, yes, it's understandable; yes, it's justifiable; but it's still MURDER. Killing people for whatever reason is MURDER. If he was about to blow up a busload of orphans and kittens while wearing a KKK robe howling William Hung sings better than Clay Aiken, it's still MURDER". And I say no, it's KILLING. English needs a word to distinguish between statements like "They have weapons of mass destruction" or "I did not have sex with that woman" (bipartisan! That's me!) and "I'm not going to discuss the issue" while grinding against Angela.

KAndre

I've had a number of debates over "Thou shalt not kill".

Some people tell me it actually means "Thou shalt not murder".

Just sayin....

[duckyvee]

So, he lied. Eh.... I don't care.

I don't mean to minimize the feelings of those who do care, but I just don't.

[Scarlett]

laljeterfan, you're by far the only one who understood Clay to be saying directly or indirectly that he was straight.

laljeterfan was not the only one. I find it so annoying to listen to speculation about people because it create pressure to do or say things they're not quite ready for, so I truly prefer to go with what people say and will continue to do so. There's no way to say "I'd be completely ok with it if..." without being rude.

[bottlecap]

And it's hard for me to admit even to myself that I didn't want to be one of those people that bought into stereotypes and mentally said "Oh, that's so gay!" about some way Clay acted or came across. (To me, the high pitched giggle was one of those things.) I may have gone too far in the opposite direction in trying to deal with a judgemental part of my own makeup that I didn't really want acknowledge. Clay - always the teacher, even if the lessons are somewhat painful.

bottlecap, signing off for the morning. Secret fetish: Wait, you've all seen the contents of my photobucket account, so my Clay fetish is not so secret.

[luckiest1]

Not sure if this has been mentioned here........don't think so, though. Apparently the OFC mods had a discussion with Clay yesterday and he laid down some rules that he wants applied to the People magazine thread at the OFC. To read them, go here.

[merryclay]

I'm starting to get sick reading the OFC. I'm not going back over there. I feel so badly for anyone that is hurting, I really do, but some of the entitlement and the self-righeousness sits heavy on my heart.

CouchTomato- I did want to say one other thing about our dialogue.

I live in Nashville and I know some people on Music Row. Gay and country music don't go very well together, so if anyone was worried that Clay might do a country album, I don't think that will be anytime soon. If you're gay in the Nashville country scene, you would want to keep that quiet. LOL!!!!

[Kareneh]

Well, phooey! I bet that means no NASCAR endorsements either. :o

I think that it takes a lot of guts to stand up and say hit me but leave those other guys alone the way Clay has done in that thread. He continues to amaze me.....just how wide can a person's wide eyed wonder get?

[merrieeee]

Does this mean we can't have a "Doing Clay Aiken" pin any more?