#41: Clay Aiken Makes His Triumphant Return!

[FromClaygary]

I think that it takes a lot of guts to stand up and say hit me but leave those other guys alone the way Clay has done in that thread. He continues to amaze me.....just how wide can a person's wide eyed wonder get?

How true! He continually amazes me....and yet, in many ways I would expect nothing less.

And on another subject.........

I have a friend who has had a family "thing" happen and is now no longer able to attend the Gala. NOTHING to do with Clay's announcement.

She has a single ticket available (one of the $250 ones).

If there is anyone who might be interested, could you PM me please and I will put you in touch.

ETA: I'm about to set out on an 8-hr drive home, so don't worry if I can't get back to you immediately. I'll catch PMs later tonight.

[djs111]

I love KAndre's murder/kill analogy! Also find it odd that people are, in effect, questioning Clay's integrity over something that, honestly, really only affects him directly.

The other thing that confuzzles me is when people say oh I love him no matter what, but he lied - are they saying they would not have been a fan if he said he was gay years ago? Do they think his most personal life should be subject to all this judgement and scrutiny?

Of course, to be perfectly frank (yes! really!) I don't understand why anyone would be "hurt" that Clay is gay.

I feel sad that some others feel bad, but I don't really understand the concept.

Listen, I totally respect those of you who think Jaymes is fabulous and right to do what she is doing over there at the OFC, but I maintain my opinion and I maintain she could learn a lot from Clay and that her decision to continue to post on the OFC the way she is not a good idea. Just my opinion like its just your opinion if you think the opposite. Despite the way some some post in their disagreement, or how many may disagree, you are still no more right that me! Or more wrong.

Claygasm, I have not seen anyone try and change your opinion - do you really believe that since you don't like Jaymes, we should all refrain from posting that we like her? Or love her. Or want to have her babies in some manner, after the orgy.

No one has said your opinion was wrong, for you, - it is just a lot of us have a different opinion, and we will certainly express it!

I do hope the media runs out of Z-listers, like Danny Bonaduce, to ask what they think of Clay coming out. Who gives a fuck what they think? Bizarre.

Heeeee......at the rate people want to marry, have babies with, or just have one-night stands with Clay and /or Jaymes, maybe there is a show in there somewhere - Clay and Jaymes' BIG BIG Love! We could all take turns arranging milk bottles and such.

(disclaimer - when I say "we all" I am using that phrase in a joking matter, I don't really include those who of course would be totally averse to the idea. I know I hatess it when someone else thinks they can speak for "all" the fans. There's no "we" in this fandom, that's for sho.)

Does this mean we can't have a "Doing Clay Aiken" pin any more?

Oh, I think a lot of us would still do him. I don't think our chances have decreased, though.

Just sayin'.

I don't think Clay was going to be a Nascar poster boy anyways. But, and this goes for country music, too, never say never.

[Cotton]

Oh no!

Mr. Blue Eyes is gone!

RIP Paul Newman.

All around good guy.

[Kareneh]

Does this mean we can't have a "Doing Clay Aiken" pin any more?

Sure, why not? He wasn't the doer anyway. And yeah....our odds haven't changed in the least. Come to think of it, I haven't seen my newest pins yet but I will on Thursday! YAY!

Well, that's if I get off my butt sometime this evening and go pack.

Oh no!

Mr. Blue Eyes is gone!

RIP Paul Newman.

All around good guy.

NOOOOO!!! Oh, that hurts.

[wandacleo]

Oh, I'm so sad about Paul Newman. RIP.

As for Clay lying: I DON'T GIVE A FUCK!!!!!!!!!! (And I'd climb through the computer and strangle the next bitch that moans about it if I could.)

HeidiHo I did not scroll.

[aikim]

So sad to hear about Paul Newman; not unexpected, but sad nevertheless. My favorite of his movies was Cool Hand Luke..."what we have here is a failure to communicate"...sometimes I think we should adopt that as the Claynation's official slogan, "g".

While I will agree that Jaymes may not have been as diplomatic as she could have been in the thread, I can understand where she was coming from and what she was trying to accomplish...but I also have to say that there are some fans who have never liked Jaymes since day 1; who still blame her for ATDW and feel that she has been a detriment to Clay's career and are not happy that she will be in Clay's life permanently because of the baby. For those people, no matter what she said over at the OFC, they would have a problem with it.

I suspect that Clay probably asked her to monitor the thread since he is working and to maybe clarify things if possible, but she is a woman and a new mother and I can totally understand her protecting those she loves.

Kim

[merryclay]

I love KAndre's murder/kill analogy! Also find it odd that people are, in effect, questioning Clay's integrity over something that, honestly, really only affects him directly.

The other thing that confuzzles me is when people say oh I love him no matter what, but he lied - are they saying they would not have been a fan if he said he was gay years ago? Do they think his most personal life should be subject to all this judgement and scrutiny?

Of course, to be perfectly frank (yes! really!) I don't understand why anyone would be "hurt" that Clay is gay.

I feel sad that some others feel bad, but I don't really understand the concept.

Listen, I totally respect those of you who think Jaymes is fabulous and right to do what she is doing over there at the OFC, but I maintain my opinion and I maintain she could learn a lot from Clay and that her decision to continue to post on the OFC the way she is not a good idea. Just my opinion like its just your opinion if you think the opposite. Despite the way some some post in their disagreement, or how many may disagree, you are still no more right that me! Or more wrong.

Claygasm, I have not seen anyone try and change your opinion - do you really believe that since you don't like Jaymes, we should all refrain from posting that we like her? Or love her. Or want to have her babies in some manner, after the orgy.

No one has said your opinion was wrong, for you, - it is just a lot of us have a different opinion, and we will certainly express it!

I do hope the media runs out of Z-listers, like Danny Bonaduce, to ask what they think of Clay coming out. Who gives a fuck what they think? Bizarre.

Heeeee......at the rate people want to marry, have babies with, or just have one-night stands with Clay and /or Jaymes, maybe there is a show in there somewhere - Clay and Jaymes' BIG BIG Love! We could all take turns arranging milk bottles and such.

(disclaimer - when I say "we all" I am using that phrase in a joking matter, I don't really include those who of course would be totally averse to the idea. I know I hatess it when someone else thinks they can speak for "all" the fans. There's no "we" in this fandom, that's for sho.)

Does this mean we can't have a "Doing Clay Aiken" pin any more?

Oh, I think a lot of us would still do him. I don't think our chances have decreased, though.

Just sayin'.

I don't think Clay was going to be a Nascar poster boy anyways. But, and this goes for country music, too, never say never.

----------------------------------ITA

Oh, I'm so sad about Paul Newman. RIP.

As for Clay lying: I DON'T GIVE A FUCK!!!!!!!!!! (And I'd climb through the computer and strangle the next bitch that moans about it if I could.)

HeidiHo I did not scroll.

I just think they should bury the body when they get through stoning Clay; it's starting to stink out there. Lots of look at mes.

[Cotton]

AP brief article re Paul Newman

Died of cancer at home at 83.

[merryclay]

REcap from the CH:

QUOTE("yalcteef")

Bare with me because I suck at recaps.

Deezer, WinkyDink, and I went to Spamalot last night.

The crowd was definitely a NJU crowd, specifically a lot of couples, including a gal in what looked like a wedding gown. The orchestra was full, the mezzanine was sparse (about 1/4 full), the balcony was a lot fuller (3/4 or more). These were probably the TKS tickets. That is a way people can afford to go to Broadway plays.

We did not feel the spark that we did the last go around, but we think part of that was because the last show we had seen was closing night. Nothing could compare to that.

Clay was his usual awesome self. The new king is ok, but the one scene which I hated him in was "All Alone". There was not the warmth like there was with Jonathan. The line "He (Patsy) is family" was just tossed out there. This number had always brought tears to my eyes, but this time around I felt cold.

The new Lady of the Lake has a great voice, but she is no Hannah.

The Herbert guard scene had some changes. Aside from the previous mentions how Clay is playing more stupidity, the other guard is no longer drunk.

The energy was lower because the audience's energy was. At curtain call, Clay got the most applause. It surprised me that Rick did not get a nice ovation. I do not think the crowd knew all the parts he played (French tauter, knight of Ni, wizard) other than Lancelot.

The crowd finally got into at the end; they were on their feet singing along loudly.

There were about 25 Clay fans waiting at the stage door, including us. We did get Tom's and David' autographs. They were so nice. Clay did not come out as we expected because of what Jerome had said on the previous night about not coming out till Tuesday. The lady beside me thought it was sad that there was so little of us. However, when we walked down the street, there was even a smaller crowd for Harry Potter (Daniel Radcliffe).

All in all it was an enjoyable and fun show.

[jamar1700]

Of course, to be perfectly frank (yes! really!) I don't understand why anyone would be "hurt" that Clay is gay.

I feel sad that some others feel bad, but I don't really understand the concept.

I think this is where I am and have been for awhile. I also believe that much of the collective fandom discourse doesn't have anything to do with Clay at all.

[merrieeee]

I think this is where I am and have been for awhile. I also believe that much of the collective fandom discourse doesn't have anything to do with Clay at all.

I really think that has held true for a long time now. More about "them" and that has just been magnified.

[cindilu2]

Does this mean we can't have a "Doing Clay Aiken" pin any more?

Hey now!!! Them's fightin' words.

I will continue to Do Clay (and wish I could do Clay) for as long as he's here.

[HeidiHo]

Whoa, HeidiHo! Feeling a bit feisty tonight?

It was a night of liberal friends and a Presidential debate. And listening to the punditocracy afterward. If that shit don’t fire you up…well, wait till Thursday!! It could get ugly(ier).

I'm of the opinion that Clay was strongly advised by his handlers to not come out, that it would be career suicide because of his mostly women fanbase.

I don't believe that.

Couch, it's done all the time, particularly with people right out of the chute like he was at Idol. Image is very important, particularly when they have a fanbase like Clays. I think that caution plus wanting to save his family from the pain were all part of it. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think Clay knew what to do. He got some bad advice.

It all just got out of control and I don't think he knew what to do. He had to have been scared.

I agree with Couchie. From what he has said, he had not come out to *anyone* other than Kim at that point. Sure the label may have told him not to come out, but it sounds to me like he wasn’t ready anyway. The advice is pointless if you didn’t intend to come out just yet anyway. He didn’t tell his mom until three years ago, after all.

Not trying to play devil's advocate, but I didn't know we were privy to the details of Clay's dates. Not that, at this point, I think he's spent the last few years dating girls. LOL. Doesn't mean he never dated them, though.

You’re right – we don’t know any more about who he dates than we did before. And just because he hangs out with a guy doesn’t mean he’s dating him any more than we could say he was dating Tyra or Hannah or anyone else he was seen hanging out with. That said, I doubt very much that he’s really dated men in the last five years – the tabloids could never find anything solid on him and they would have if he did, IMO. But, you never know. I hope does find someone hot, though. That would be very interesting to look at. <g> Yep, still shallow.

One of the problems I have with the stark statement "Clay LIED" is because LIED is such a trigger word. For me, what Clay said about his sexuality earlier is like the difference being killing and murder (lie being murder). Like if JP comes up to me with a knife with intent to kill me. I shoot his ass dead. (Hey, I might as well enjoy the analogy). And somebody keeps telling me, "Well, yes, it's understandable; yes, it's justifiable; but it's still MURDER. Killing people for whatever reason is MURDER. If he was about to blow up a busload of orphans and kittens while wearing a KKK robe howling William Hung sings better than Clay Aiken, it's still MURDER". And I say no, it's KILLING. English needs a word to distinguish between statements like "They have weapons of mass destruction" or "I did not have sex with that woman" (bipartisan! That's me!) and "I'm not going to discuss the issue" while grinding against Angela.

I love you. <g>

Did he lie, didn't he lie has just gotten so old. What difference does that make now? The guy just did something momentous that could affect his career, family and his very life and that's all some can think of.

I am in awe of the guy. He has more understanding and class in his little finger than some of those people over at the OFC if you lumped them all together. I don't know if I could read post after post of people calling me names and bashing me. Yet in the middle of it all he gets with the mods to try and get some sense in that thread.

He and his whole family have to be hurting right now and yet he reaches out to try and help those also hurting.

I still want to have his babies! I know too late but a even if he is gay a girl can still dream.

And I love you too. <g>

As for Clay lying: I DON'T GIVE A FUCK!!!!!!!!!! (And I'd climb through the computer and strangle the next bitch that moans about it if I could.)

HeidiHo I did not scroll.

LOL – and you and me both on that first part. <g> My patience is wearing thin. Which is why I won’t likely go back to OFC.

I’m shocked about Paul Newman. I guess I didn't realize (or remember) that he'd been sick.

[Gibby]

Lie, schmie. I understand why he misrepresented himself right after AI. I think most of us would have done the same thing, and are guilty of lying about other things. For me it's not an issue because of the situation he was in. And since then he's gone to GREAT pains NOT to lie.

So, I'm giving him grace about the lying thing. It's understandable, it's not a deal breaker for me, and I still love him inordinately. And my hope is that fans who are upset about the lie will eventually come to the place where they can give him grace and forgiveness for the lie. My opinion is that we all mess up in life in some way or another, and need grace and forgiveness. I'm very grateful that people have forgiven me when I've messed up, and it would be hypocritical of me not to extend grace to Clay in this circumstance.

Part of the reason Clay's revelation has been easy for me to accept is that I suspected that Clay may be gay. Not in the early days, certainly, but more recently. I didn't KNOW, because he hadn't told us. But I certainly entertained it as a possible option, especially after Parker was born. And I reached the conclusion that it wouldn't matter to me. Still doesn't matter to me.

It must have been very hard for him to sing in front of screaming females with "Marry me Clay signs," and then come out and say "I am gay." I cannot even begin to imagine how he must have felt at the time. He was in a very difficult position.

Why would he feel anything other than flattered, really? I mean the seeing of the signs and declarations of love part – not the coming out part. I took a guy to New Orleans during Southern Decadence and he is straight – he got whistled at and got some cat calls from gay men. He was *flattered* and he waved and reveled in it. Combine the two for Clay and that would be awkward, but by itself, I don’t think anything fans did to show the love to Clay made him anything other than flattered. None of the gay men I know say “Eeeww” when a woman finds them attractive.

Heeeee - I've been hit on by gay women a number of times, and always found it quite flattering. And I'm straight as the day is long. My daughter, who has a number of gay friends, recently went to a pride festival in Denver. She was hit on, too, and also found it flattering. Hey, if someone finds you attractive, it's a really nice thing!

Not sure if this has been mentioned here........don't think so, though. Apparently the OFC mods had a discussion with Clay yesterday and he laid down some rules that he wants applied to the People magazine thread at the OFC. To read them, go here.

THANK YOU for the link. WHOA!! We sure did pick us a keeper, didn't we? Clay is amazing. I honestly think many people in that situation would shut down the thread, disallow certain kinds of posting across the forum, and maybe even shut down the forum for awhile. Not our guy!!

I think that it takes a lot of guts to stand up and say hit me but leave those other guys alone the way Clay has done in that thread. He continues to amaze me.....just how wide can a person's wide eyed wonder get?

[laljeterfan]

Oh, I'm so sad about Paul Newman. RIP.

As for Clay lying: I DON'T GIVE A FUCK!!!!!!!!!! (And I'd climb through the computer and strangle the next bitch that moans about it if I could.)

Well, since I'm the one who had the issue with the "he wasn't really lying" comments from yesterday, I assume that I am now the "bitch" in question? Man, that really sucks.

[cindilu2]

See for me - the 'lie' means nothing. Coming out can't be compared to anything else in the world, IMO. Unless and until we've had to do it, we just don't have any right to judge what he did and how/why he did it.

And whatever 'lie' there was simply does not trump everything else he's done for the last five years. For those who can't get past it - does it really, truly negate all that good? Is five years of showing us a good man, and a great entertainer - of enriching our lives, really erased by this one thing? Who could live up to those standards? Not me.

As for Clay's latest directive - to let the members have (essentially) free reign to hate on him on his Fan Club. I love and admire and am in awe of him for it - but I still want to smack him upside his head. He does not have to prostrate himself for these people. I posted this last night after that announcement:

Clay - sometimes you quite simply blow my mind. I admire you more than I can say - but sometimes I just wanna shake you! Giving people room to vent is compassionate and incredibly generous. Letting them publicly flay you is just unneccessary.

You're a good man - are today, were yesterday and will be tomorrow. That's not defending you sweetie - that's just plain, simple fact

I know myself well enough to realize that I can't read hateful things about a man who has given us so much and not react, so I have to take leave of this thread.

I will say one last thing - whatever distress this has caused 'us', whatever painful emotions are stirred in 'us', they are nothing, nothing compared to what Clay must have struggled with, not just over these last few weeks/months, but for years. So I am going to get the gears from a few friends over it? Big, fat, hairy deal. I'll live. Nothing could repay what he has given me over the last five years. Hopefully my loyalty and continued support as a fan will make a tiny dent in my side of the ledger. LOVE YOU CLAY!!! Always and forever.

[luckiest1]

Now I want to marry cindilu2. Who knew I was a polygamist as well as a liar?

I admit my patience with those who can't get past the "lie" is starting to wear a bit thin, but I think that may be a good indication that I need to walk away from the boards for a couple of days. I truly hope that everyone who is having difficulty with this can come to terms with it soon (and not Clay's idea of soon, either!)

[annabear]

And whatever 'lie' there was simply does not trump everything else he's done for the last five years. For those who can't get past it - does it really, truly negate all that good? Is five years of showing us a good man, and a great entertainer - of enriching our lives, really erased by this one thing? Who could live up to those standards? Not me.

That has been my mantra this week.

Now I want to marry cindilu2. Who knew I was a polygamist as well as a liar?

Join the club!

[ldyjocelyn]

While I agree wholeheartedly with cindilu, I see there is a line forming for marriage. Therefore, I've decided to marry Gibby for this:

So, I'm giving him grace about the lying thing. It's understandable, it's not a deal breaker for me, and I still love him inordinately. And my hope is that fans who are upset about the lie will eventually come to the place where they can give him grace and forgiveness for the lie. My opinion is that we all mess up in life in some way or another, and need grace and forgiveness. I'm very grateful that people have forgiven me when I've messed up, and it would be hypocritical of my not to extend grace to Clay in this circumstance.

So much freakin' word. I can easily forgive him for this, because so many have forgiven me! I also think that I do forgive him because I don't believe I've thrown 5 years away at all -- he was still wildly entertaining to me at all those shows I attended, during the TV appearances, during Spamalot. He's given my life a rich new component, one of entertainment and joy. He's also given me the ability to learn so much about this world through him, the people around him, and the fans on message boards. Yes, that learning involves some ugly as well as good, but it's all learning.

[annabear]

I also think that I do forgive him because I don't believe I've thrown 5 years away at all -- he was still wildly entertaining to me at all those shows I attended, during the TV appearances, during Spamalot. He's given my life a rich new component, one of entertainment and joy. He's also given me the ability to learn so much about this world through him, the people around him, and the fans on message boards. Yes, that learning involves some ugly as well as good, but it's all learning.

Absolutely. He's still a teacher.

[merrieeee]

There is way to much polygamy goin' on here. We should just form our own commune and live happily ever after.

Since Clay's talk with the mods everything has certainly calmed down over there...or is it that "they" are not awake yet?

There are some pretty insightful posts and a lot more respect being show. No it's not all wine & roses but it is a lot better.

[laljeterfan]

See for me - the 'lie' means nothing. Coming out can't be compared to anything else in the world, IMO. Unless and until we've had to do it, we just don't have any right to judge what he did and how/why he did it.

And whatever 'lie' there was simply does not trump everything else he's done for the last five years. For those who can't get past it - does it really, truly negate all that good? Is five years of showing us a good man, and a great entertainer - of enriching our lives, really erased by this one thing? Who could live up to those standards? Not me.

No it doesn't. I never said it does. And I don't feel that by simply pointing out that the lie existed- and in some cases is the jumping off point for the discomfort some of us (or maybe just me- I don't know anymore) have been feeling, is not to judge him for it. It is just to say that the reason this has been difficult to deal with (for me) is because I believed in something that was ultimately proven not to be true. I didn't conjure it up out of my own imagination- I believed it because he said it. It takes time (for me, clearly not for everyone) to work through thoughts and feelings about this. I felt happy that even though I was struggling, the overall attitude here was one of acceptance and generosity by most (if not all) of the posters. I'm not sure why that seems to have changed overnight, and why I feel like I'm being attacked for it today.

I'm not trying to test anyone's patience. I simply have felt that the point I had been trying to make had been misunderstood, and that certain assumptions have been made about what I've been trying to say that have been incorrect. To try to explain myself more clearly seems to have infuriated/aggravated people, and that was not ever my intent. I will gladly end the whole conversation, as long as no one sees fit to refer to me as a bitch for trying to explain myself

[annabear]

There is way to much polygamy goin' on here. We should just form our own commune and live happily ever after.

Since Clay's talk with the mods everything has certainly calmed down over there...or is it that "they" are not awake yet?

There are some pretty insightful posts and a lot more respect being show. No it's not all wine & roses but it is a lot better.

I think it's combination. If people just stop bitching back & forth, just to be bitching back & forth, then they can actually talk things out. What a concept, huh?

[wandacleo]

Give me a world without Matthew Shepard in it, then I'm willing to give those who can't come to terms with Clay's "lying" a break.

Until then....

My nephew is gay. I know first hand that coming out for many people is HELL (in big fucking capital letters).

It's impossible to live in this country and NOT know that.

Please, PLEASE, I just cannot abide anymore bullshit about this.

[cindilu2]

See for me - the 'lie' means nothing. Coming out can't be compared to anything else in the world, IMO. Unless and until we've had to do it, we just don't have any right to judge what he did and how/why he did it.

And whatever 'lie' there was simply does not trump everything else he's done for the last five years. For those who can't get past it - does it really, truly negate all that good? Is five years of showing us a good man, and a great entertainer - of enriching our lives, really erased by this one thing? Who could live up to those standards? Not me.

No it doesn't. I never said it does. And I don't feel that by simply pointing out that the lie existed- and in some cases is the jumping off point for the discomfort some of us (or maybe just me- I don't know anymore) have been feeling, is not to judge him for it. It is just to say that the reason this has been difficult to deal with is because I believed in something that was ultimately proven not to be true. I didn't conjure it up out of my own imagination- I believed it because he said it. It takes time (for me, clearly not for everyone) to work through thoughts and feelings about this. I felt happy that even though I was struggling, the overall attitude here was one of acceptance and generosity by most (not all) of the posters. I'm not sure why that seems to have changed overnight, and why I feel like I'm being attacked for it today.

Nobody is attacking you. In fact my post wasn't even about you. But now that it is.... I do understand the reasoning - and can even sympathize with it. My question is - what will it take for you to move past it. To forgive him for it. To LET all those other things trump it? Because only you can choose to do that. You can let the 'lie' consume your fandom, or you can at least try to move on from it.