#41: Clay Aiken Makes His Triumphant Return!

[Claymatron]

OK, I want to marry all of you...(well, most of you, anyway) and Jaymes too! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

BUT....

Does this mean we can't have a "Doing Clay Aiken" pin any more?

Hey now!!! Them's fightin' words.

I will continue to Do Clay (and wish I could do Clay) for as long as he's here.

I still want to Do Clay and I have the same chance of that as I always had, so I'm totally OK with it!

Aww, Paul Newman was my first crush, then Robert Redford, then Eric Stoltz and then Clay Aiken who chased all the others out of my heart. RIP, Paul!

[merrieeee]

Back when my DD was in 11th grade, on the 4th of July, a group of 10 of her fellow students went into the gay part of town and beat a man to death with a board studded with nails. She and I knew these kids and she had even tutored some of them. Our eyes were certainly opened when they came back to school (they had to because at that point there were not guilty of anything). Instead of being appalled girls were actually fawning over some of these guys and treating them like heroes!

I was disgusted that they were even allowed to walk the halls. Thank goodness most of them ended up serving long sentences but I will never forget the attitude back then. That was back in 91 and I really thought we had come along a lot further than that....I guess we haven't

[laljeterfan]

See for me - the 'lie' means nothing. Coming out can't be compared to anything else in the world, IMO. Unless and until we've had to do it, we just don't have any right to judge what he did and how/why he did it.

And whatever 'lie' there was simply does not trump everything else he's done for the last five years. For those who can't get past it - does it really, truly negate all that good? Is five years of showing us a good man, and a great entertainer - of enriching our lives, really erased by this one thing? Who could live up to those standards? Not me.

No it doesn't. I never said it does. And I don't feel that by simply pointing out that the lie existed- and in some cases is the jumping off point for the discomfort some of us (or maybe just me- I don't know anymore) have been feeling, is not to judge him for it. It is just to say that the reason this has been difficult to deal with is because I believed in something that was ultimately proven not to be true. I didn't conjure it up out of my own imagination- I believed it because he said it. It takes time (for me, clearly not for everyone) to work through thoughts and feelings about this. I felt happy that even though I was struggling, the overall attitude here was one of acceptance and generosity by most (not all) of the posters. I'm not sure why that seems to have changed overnight, and why I feel like I'm being attacked for it today.

Nobody is attacking you. In fact my post wasn't even about you. But now that it is.... I do understand the reasoning - and can even sympathize with it. My question is - what will it take for you to move past it. To forgive him for it. To LET all those other things trump it? Because only you can choose to do that. You can let the 'lie' consume your fandom, or you can at least try to move on from it.

Thank you for understanding what I've been trying to say. As I tried to explain last night- I know why he lied- I understand why he lied. In the same situation I probably would have done the same thing. My youngest brother is gay. He didn't come out till several years ago when he was in his mid-thirties. But I didn't understand the assertion that Clay didn't "really" lie. I'm glad that you were all able to put it behing you so quickly and say "so what!" Bravo for you. My discomfort comes from now having to reconcile what my previous beliefs were (based on what he told us) with the reality. Someone (I think it was CG) posted something very profound earlier this week on how difficult that is to do, and I wholeheartedly agreed. I felt like I was doing that. It was never a question of forgiving him or not forgiving him for it- it was saying "Here is where the disconnect started for me, and here is where I am trying to learn to work through it." What will it take to move past it? Time and patience, as I said on the OFC. Going to see him again, which I'll be doing next week. Feeling free to discuss my feelings- which I'm not at the moment. Clay gave us a place to go and vent our feelings at the OFC, and I thank him for it. He also asked that anyone who was struggling be given the leeway to feel what they were feeling without being judged by others. He is a better person than I am.

[Couch Tomato]

Couch, it's done all the time, particularly with people right out of the chute like he was at Idol. Image is very important, particularly when they have a fanbase like Clays. I think that caution plus wanting to save his family from the pain were all part of it. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think Clay knew what to do. He got some bad advice.

It all just got out of control and I don't think he knew what to do. He had to have been scared.

Yep I know it's done all the time but I don't think Clay confided in Al Davis and Simon Cowell but not his mom and his brother or Ruben or any other idol. The timeline just doesn't work for me. Coming out on his own, getting the courage up to come out is enough - I don't need or want to believe that Clay was forced into keeping silent by others. It's too convenient. Clay has manned up so to speak..I'm not going to take that power away from him by trying to blame his evil handlers. If one day he tells me that's true, then fine. Until then - it's excuse making and I just don't think this situation needs or calls for that. That's where I'm coming from on this one.

What the heck is on all these pages over night... well I guess it is afternoon elsewhere... going back.

ETA: Al fucking Davis? I love this typo so think I'll leave it. Two powerful ghouls ... doesn't really matter does it?

[Claymatron]

laljeterfan.... :thbighug-1: Hang in there. They say the best is yet to come. You don't want to miss that, do you?

Gotta go to work in my wine store now! Love you guys. So glad I found this board.

[Couch Tomato]

One of the problems I have with the stark statement "Clay LIED" is because LIED is such a trigger word. For me, what Clay said about his sexuality earlier is like the difference being killing and murder (lie being murder). Like if JP comes up to me with a knife with intent to kill me. I shoot his ass dead. (Hey, I might as well enjoy the analogy). And somebody keeps telling me, "Well, yes, it's understandable; yes, it's justifiable; but it's still MURDER. Killing people for whatever reason is MURDER. If he was about to blow up a busload of orphans and kittens while wearing a KKK robe howling William Hung sings better than Clay Aiken, it's still MURDER". And I say no, it's KILLING. English needs a word to distinguish between statements like "They have weapons of mass destruction" or "I did not have sex with that woman" (bipartisan! That's me!) and "I'm not going to discuss the issue" while grinding against Angela.

Y'all are too into marriage, I'm just gonna fool around with all the hot people I like.

ETA

No, no, laljeterfan, let me stretch my analogy like a rubber band (Hey! I'm on a roll!) - your lie was the equivalent of involuntary homicide! You can still address the issue if only to look at amazement in my English stuff! Is it obvious I was a science major?

OMG I woke up to this. HILARIOUS.

I couldn't delete a single thing.

Lucky..you know I want one. Gotta see what my new girlfriend is saying.

lajeterfan :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[annabear]

I don't drop in here that often, but the times that I do I always get the feeling of this being such a kind and caring board. I'm glad to see that that hasn't change.

Love you guys. So glad I found this board.

Hmmm... people actually reading and posting here and coming to these conclusions on their own... what about our reputation as the mean board? :27:

Um, Al Davis, couchie? WTH? ETA: I now see your ETA - BWAHAHA!!

[laljeterfan]

One of the problems I have with the stark statement "Clay LIED" is because LIED is such a trigger word. For me, what Clay said about his sexuality earlier is like the difference being killing and murder (lie being murder). Like if JP comes up to me with a knife with intent to kill me. I shoot his ass dead. (Hey, I might as well enjoy the analogy). And somebody keeps telling me, "Well, yes, it's understandable; yes, it's justifiable; but it's still MURDER. Killing people for whatever reason is MURDER. If he was about to blow up a busload of orphans and kittens while wearing a KKK robe howling William Hung sings better than Clay Aiken, it's still MURDER". And I say no, it's KILLING. English needs a word to distinguish between statements like "They have weapons of mass destruction" or "I did not have sex with that woman" (bipartisan! That's me!) and "I'm not going to discuss the issue" while grinding against Angela.

Y'all are too into marriage, I'm just gonna fool around with all the hot people I like.

ETA

No, no, laljeterfan, let me stretch my analogy like a rubber band (Hey! I'm on a roll!) - your lie was the equivalent of involuntary homicide! You can still address the issue if only to look at amazement in my English stuff! Is it obvious I was a science major?

lajeterfan :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Somehow I missed this earlier. I AM in amazement- or confusion- not sure which? Thanks for the laugh!

Thank you couchie.

[annabear]

Jaymes is back posting again at the OFC and has just clarified that no money - at all - was involved in any of this.

Post # 7429.

[Scarlett]

I don't think Clay is being masochistic about this. This is both the smart and caring path.

Some of us can turn on a dime and yes we're superior and smart. We also need to be wise enough to understand that we have a variety of life experiences in this fandom. It hasn't been more than a week. It took his Mom a year and she's an open and loving person. Saying I'm fine already so why can't you be fine too helps no one.

If someone is strong in their belief that they're completely with him then a few trolls here and there posting nasty stuff shouldn't be able to shake that. It would be worse to shut down the thread and force everything to go to private boards and PMs. Those who are sincerely working things out need understanding and time and help from those who already scaled the mountain.

Some things people may be struggling with are the following:

- not liking how this improves ph's and tmz's batting average

- needing support in dealing with sneering co-workers and family members

- working out trust issues; some people have the "healthier" approach of taking everything with a grain of salt while others begin by assuming that those they meet are speaking the plain literal truth -- should they change and take the more "practical" approach to life or remain the same?

- finding a balance between living in a community and church that isn't receptive to this and continuing to support Clay

- to some, Clay was one of the few people on tv whom they believed in but they're not sure what to make of the Tyra kiss

It would be great if those who have worked things out already could speak to items like this and provide guidance and support to those who need it. If a good friend of yours PM'ed or called about these, what advice would you give her?

[wandacleo]

I just read what Jaymes said on OFC about Clay insisting that he receive NO MONEY for the story, for pictures, for anything--not to him, not to charity, not to anything.

I am so filled with love and admiration for Clay.

(I'd have personally taken the money, but I admire him greatly.)

[luckiest1]

{{{laljeterfan}}} Please don't think I'm attacking you. I'm not. I'm just stating how I'm feeling, which is admittedly quite different from what you are feeling. Clay is definitely a better and more patient person than I am.

[Couch Tomato]

You know it is kind of weird being able to write Clay is gay.

Heee.. and I better find some time to re-write the rules around here LOL. Actually I just have to delete a couple of sentences cuz the respect for Clay and his people still stands. I think that's our only rule anyway.

Let's keep the environment around her respectful enough for people to speak their minds. Even if it's something you can't grasp - well you don't have to grasp it. Not saying everybody can't speak their own mind - if 100 people believe one things vs 2 on the other side - it's frustrating to hold that minority view I know but we're all in the position sometimes and you're gonna have to understand that you're not being attacked just disagreed with.

I'm far from the first to say this but: He is still a humanitarian, singer, entertainer, actor, lyricist, author, son, friend to many and most of all a great father. Sorry CG, but Parker added another element to Clay that I find most interesting. Parker closes the circle which may expand if Clay finds the perfect love.

Clay forever. :thbighug-1:

We need play, the emoticon queen back. Hope you're feeling better.

Sorry for the epic. Have a great day!

Lies, shmies, if you can't tell a few your not going to succeed in business.

We do need Play and I hope she can come to grips with it all. And I love it and expect it really, that her issues are so uniquely hers. We love you Play. And you too Fear.

I do think it's never been about just the singing when it comes to Clay. If it were, we'd have moved on already.

And LOL at the last line. Too true. I told a lie yesterday to a customer...I guess -- by not telling her - that as soon as she paid for her bounced COD check I was changing her to prepaid customer only. I want to get my money first before I lower the boom.

Oh, I'm so sad about Paul Newman. RIP.

As for Clay lying: I DON'T GIVE A FUCK!!!!!!!!!! (And I'd climb through the computer and strangle the next bitch that moans about it if I could.)

and wandacleo, this my dear would indeed be murder

[luckiest1]

Eeep, the board just ate my post. Oh well, I think maybe it's trying to tell me something. Time to go and get my hair cut instead!

[annabear]

It would be great if those who have worked things out already could speak to items like this and provide guidance and support to those who need it. If a good friend of yours PM'ed or called about these, what advice would you give her?

I've been going through this with a friend this week. I don't think I've really given her any advice, just been a sounding board for her. And at times, her for me.

When she would say that she saw something that was said or done in this way, I might tell her I saw it that way. It was not saying, "You're wrong," but giving another point of view to think about. I believe that helped.

More of the struggle seems to be with wanting to feel a certain way, or not wanting to feel a certain way, and being upset with oneself for feeling that way. It's just going to take time.

[ldyjocelyn]

Some things people may be struggling with are the following:

- not liking how this improves ph's and tmz's batting average

As someone who follows the media and some entertainment sites for fun (yes, it can be done!), I have to sadly say that this is simply a pattern. TMZ has sources out the wazoo, I think, and after read that article about them, I think I simply figured out that they do tend to be right a good portion of the time. Do I like their sleazy methods for getting their information? Oh hell no. But it doesn't change their batting average.

As far as those other initials go...I still hate him with the passion of a thousand suns. Why? Because he doesn't allow anyone to self-identify. In my case, I just find it easy to let him go. He's really not part of my world.

- needing support in dealing with sneering co-workers and family members

It seems to me that many people who are having a hard time with everything from this past week are ones who have had particularly brutal experiences with co-workers and family members. Not all, of course. I think the answer for this one really doesn't change for me after the news this week -- these people would have given me a hard time ANYWAY, and so, I'll still answer with the "he doesn't sing with his dick, why should it bother me?" I might add now "Why does it matter if I find a gay guy hawt to you?" *shrug*

- working out trust issues; some people have the "healthier" approach of taking everything with a grain of salt while others begin by assuming that those they meet are speaking the plain literal truth -- should they change and take the more "practical" approach to life or remain the same?

Ah yes, the emotional versus rational. I've seen a lot of this in the past few days. In my mind, there is a nice little section in the middle there...the emo-rational area. IMO...the gut always seems to speak first, but then my brain kicks in and starts to wonder about things. Finding a balance between the two is difficult.

- finding a balance between living in a community and church that isn't receptive to this and continuing to support Clay

I think my answer to this one can be applied to most of the questions above too – be confident in yourself. Be secure in yourself. Realize that not everyone is going to agree with you. Realize that some will see you in a new light – good or bad (that’s THEIR choice, not yours, BTW).

This question takes me back to 00lsee’s posts, with her struggle with her church. As a Christian, in many ways, it tore me apart to read it, but in the end, I support her 100% in what she did. Also, it’s like what Clay said in that interview yesterday, one that was making me pump my fist in the air, regarding the stereotypes of Christians. Yes, there are some that aren’t very tolerant at all, but I’d like to think that I’m one that supports and loves ALL people. OK, except for maybe PH. *g* Anyway, I think if someone is secure in their beliefs, they will be fine with this in the end.

- to some, Clay was one of the few people on tv whom they believed in but they're not sure what to make of the Tyra kiss

Scarlett, can you reword this question? I’m having trouble wrapping my mind around it.

Will these answers help? Honestly, I doubt it. I think it is getting to the point where people are getting weary after a long week, and emotions are getting frayed. I stepped back fairly early in this whole week, partially because I knew it would be better for me mentally.

I just want to say that I do feel for those who aren’t quite “there” yet. Hugs all around.

[djs111]

working out trust issues; some people have the "healthier" approach of taking everything with a grain of salt while others begin by assuming that those they meet are speaking the plain literal truth -- should they change and take the more "practical" approach to life or remain the same?

I am in the middle - it is not so much that I take everything with a grain of salt - but I generally have learned that things can change the instant after anybody says anything, so I keep pretty fluid on stuff. I have learned, too, that today is the first day of the rest of my life, so I don't waste much time looking back and doing the shoulda woulda coulda thing. because there is no point.

I trust that people telling me things generally have good intentions, whatever happens next.

I admit I am one who processed the news in about three minutes. I admire Clay, I love to hear and watch and read about him - but I don't have anything emotionally or intellectually invested in him. Hell, he may decide to quit show business tomorrow, I might decide to take up another hobby or go into some small crafts business that leaves me no time for this stuff. We don't have a contract. He knows that every single one of his fans could just decide to be an intense fan of someone else tomorrow - fans do that anyway. So I am just happy that he is happy, and I don't consider that anything he does or did affects me personally.

I guess that is why I am almost helpless at sympathising, I am not jeering or making fun, I honestly don't know what to say.

All of this has actually made him even more attractive and interesting, to me, and also I am so happy to have gotten more of a feel for how wonderful Jaymes is for him.

If people have been accumulating "clues", like nuggets or whatever, I think they are doomed to be puzzled. In my experience, most of life is unrehearsed and unplanned, and of the moment. No reason Clay would not kiss Tyra - it is not like he has an aversion to women.

[Scarlett]

- to some, Clay was one of the few people on tv whom they believed in but they're not sure what to make of the Tyra kiss

Scarlett, can you reword this question? I’m having trouble wrapping my mind around it.

I'm also trying to grasp why this is an issue but that's probably because I don't watch TV very much. It's something about validating that everything on TV is a sham -- and my simple answer to that is "yes that's true" but I guess some people want to be able to "trust" what they see on screen and had hopes that Clay was the one beacon of honesty in the place. *scratches head*

Thanks for your responses, ldyj, annabear and djs. Not sure how many people this will help but it's good that we try and I know that there are a lot of lurkers who swing by over here. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

I should post my answers too...

[HeidiHo]

Couch, it's done all the time, particularly with people right out of the chute like he was at Idol. Image is very important, particularly when they have a fanbase like Clays. I think that caution plus wanting to save his family from the pain were all part of it. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think Clay knew what to do. He got some bad advice.

It all just got out of control and I don't think he knew what to do. He had to have been scared.

Yep I know it's done all the time but I don't think Clay confided in Al Davis and Simon Cowell but not his mom and his brother or Ruben or any other idol. The timeline just doesn't work for me. Coming out on his own, getting the courage up to come out is enough - I don't need or want to believe that Clay was forced into keeping silent by others. It's too convenient. Clay has manned up so to speak..I'm not going to take that power away from him by trying to blame his evil handlers. If one day he tells me that's true, then fine. Until then - it's excuse making and I just don't think this situation needs or calls for that. That's where I'm coming from on this one.

Yeah – this. Blaming the evil handlers doesn't work on this one, IMO.

I’m going to try Scarlett’s advice:

Some things people may be struggling with are the following:

- not liking how this improves ph's and tmz's batting average

That is just galling. And it doesn’t have anything to do with Clay. But you have to remember that even a stopped clock is right twice a day. AND just because you’re (they’re) right about ONE thing doesn’t mean they are right about everything. It doesn’t mean Clay or PH are any different. Clay is still hot, PH is still a pig. I"m reasonable confident that his day will come.

- needing support in dealing with sneering co-workers and family members

If someone does give you a hard time I only see one way to deal with it – the same way I always did before. Look them straight in the eye and say, “Is gay a problem with you? Because it’s not with me.” Really, there is no way that they can win – unless of course they don’t mind being bigoted.

I was actually preparing to have to deal with some shit (although it has yet to happen) and I came up with the following, true responses to the comment “So, he IS gay” followed by any combination of neener, neener (because I have sadly low expectations of people I guess):

1) It always seemed more important to YOU than it did to me. Why is that?

2) Why do all my co-workers assume that *I’m* the bigot? Do I give you the impression that I’m bigoted?

3) I love him, he’s my pretend boyfriend. I don’t get why that should change. Please explain.

Put it on them – they’re the ones being the asshole. My response would depend on the tone and the person doing the asking. But I wouldn't hesitate to answer a question with a question to make them feel bad - because they are being bad.

- working out trust issues; some people have the "healthier" approach of taking everything with a grain of salt while others begin by assuming that those they meet are speaking the plain literal truth -- should they change and take the more "practical" approach to life or remain the same?

I don’t know if there is any way to respond to this one. People are who they are, and I don’t think that “lying” should be at issue here. I just don’t. He’s a singer that I don’t actually *know* - there is no reason to have to “trust” him. I have not placed any portion of my life in his hands such that it require trust. I don't know how to help with that one because I can't relate to it.

- finding a balance between living in a community and church that isn't receptive to this and continuing to support Clay

Oh boy, can’t relate to this one either. I guess it’s like politics – there are some who are polar opposites from me that I do work with. I handle it by not discussing politics with them EVER - because I recognize that I can never change their mind any more than they can change mine. But that will not stop me from participating in MY group and voting MY way. This isn’t that different. There is no requirement that you share every part of yourself, any more than there is for Clay.

- to some, Clay was one of the few people on tv whom they believed in but they're not sure what to make of the Tyra kiss

Maybe he found her beautiful/wonderful and wanted to kiss her. There is no denying they had a lot of chemistry. I’ve been kissed by gay men before; those who are good friends. It wasn’t like there was tongue. It’s not like all gay men are afraid of girl cooties.

It would be great if those who have worked things out already could speak to items like this and provide guidance and support to those who need it. If a good friend of yours PM'ed or called about these, what advice would you give her?

Is it obvious that my friends always expect the blunt honest reaction from me? <g>

If people have been accumulating "clues", like nuggets or whatever, I think they are doomed to be puzzled. In my experience, most of life is unrehearsed and unplanned, and of the moment. No reason Clay would not kiss Tyra - it is not like he has an aversion to women.

YES!!!

[cindilu2]

I was given grief at work by my boss for a couple years regarding my Clay love - and always with the 'he's so gay' connotation (never that he couldn't, you know, sing). It stopped at least two years ago when I said that a) I wasn't getting any of that anyway, and 2 (b doesn't work -sorry) he doesn't sing with....

I freely admit I kind of dreaded seeing him after coming back from NYC on Friday. And he didn't disappoint - the very first words out of his mouth were - I told you he was queer. I said - yep you sure did. How could you tell? Experience??? Heh. It went on for a couple minutes - and then it was over. I don't imagine he's the last one who'll give me grief over it. But you know what? Anything I might have to 'bear' is miniscule compared to what Clay has faced his whole life (in OR out of the closet) and will most likely continue to face for the rest of it. So yeah - I'll just hold my head up, like I have for five years now - and say, 'You bet your ass I love him. Got a problem with that???'

Oh yeah, and PH? To quote my favorite singer - I wouldn't spit in his mouth if his teeth were on fire. He is beneath contempt. Regardless of anything that has happened this week - I will always, always give Clay Aiken the benefit of the doubt over tabloid scumbags. My own secret little wish is that now that he has nothing to hide, he might stop taking every bit of shit that's dished out to him from these vermin. I know - just my little fantasy. I do believe that Clay will go back to his policy of not commenting on his personal life except on his terms. And I have no problem with that whatsoever. What he chooses to share with me - I'll gratefully lap up - the rest? Not my business.

[Totally]

Just because Clay is gay doesn’t make this LESS bullshit stereotyping. He made sense to you as a gay man? Dear god – do we all fit so well in a box? So very easy to categorize, label and stereotype people (ldyj - what is that saying from XF that is similar to this?). So very wrong. Even if you are right this time, you can’t just look at people you don’t know and judge them – you will be wrong as often are you are right.

At least a couple of people here have accused me in not very pleasant or respectful words of "stereotyping" Clay because I believed he was gay before he came out. I said very clearly that I always respected everyone's position to take him at his word who did. I would appreciate even a little of the same respect.

I never made a decision that Clay didn't deserve to self-identify. I simply believed what I believed. I absolutely couldn't see him as a straight man by sometime a couple of years ago, no matter how hard I tried to, and believe me - I had enjoyed thinking of him as straight. It wasn't a matter of making a decision to see him as heterosexual or homosexual. It was a matter of what I saw, what I believed. You can't force yourself to believe something that you simply don't believe. I wasn't on a mission to get everyone I knew to believe what I believed or to OUT Clay or to hurt Clay or to hurt anyone else. I thought Clay was gay and closeted and would never come out. I accepted that and thought that Clay had every right to live his life the way he wanted to and present himself to the world whatever way he wanted to. I also knew that I didn't for sure know anything. I just wanted for Clay to be happy and successful and sing and perform.

I'm not saying I told you so to anyone. I believe I said that I completely understood and respected anyone who believed Clay was straight. I believed Clay was straight for a long time, because he had told us he was - until I just couldn't any longer. I don't go around wondering about people's sexualities and judging them for it. I have straight friends and gay friends. I've never had a reason to have to guess and it's never mattered to me. For me (and for many other people within this fandom), it was impossible not to wonder about Clay's sexuality over the past few years. I don't think anyone should be judged right now for whatever conclusion they came to about Clay's sexuality. I think that right now should be a time for compassion and for healing, both for the fans and for Clay, not accusations and judgment and harsh words.

[aikim]

Clay loves his fans...and he has always been in tune to what the fans want from him; we have had endless discussions about what songs he should sing; what we want to see him do in concert...I mean the fans have not exactly been subtle about their fantasies, dreams and wishes.

When he is grinding with Angela in concert it is because the fans wanted that; we wanted to see Clay being sexy and flirty...how many times have the fans posted that they wanted to see Clay be romantic with a woman...whether it be on screen or in a music video or real life...so we get the Tyra kiss.

During the JBT he did stump the band so we could hear him sing songs that we have all been wishing he would sing...remember the night he sang WAMLAW?

He has always been about pleasing the fans and trying to make the concert experience the best possible...for 5 years he has been fullfilling the fantasies of his fans because we asked him to.

Kim

[bottlecap]

Jaymes is back posting again at the OFC and has just clarified that no money - at all - was involved in any of this.

Post # 7429.

Most interesting! Here's the part of the original article about the payoff from MSNBC's gossip column, along with my interjections about what might have motivated this particular "scoop". (And yes, I'll believe what Jaymes says over "sources".)

While Aiken's announcement was interesting in and of itself, more compelling is the backstory behind the People deal. Apparently, the economy isn’t just having an impact on Wall Street — it's affecting the celebrity magazine world, too.

"As a celebrity magazine publisher, I gotta try to drive down the prices on exclusives in the future. Those freakin' online bloggers are killing me!"

Exclusive photos of Clay and his son, Parker, went for an underwhelming amount compared to the multimillion-dollar price tag that accompanies a Jennifer Lopez or Jolie-Pitt agreement. Aiken’s deal cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $500,000 according to several sources privy to the negotiations (a rep for People said “We don’t comment on the specifics of any deals”).

Maybe those "several sources" work for competing magazines, and besides lowering the expectations on the prices of future scoops they're bidding on, they might want to stick it to People a bit. After all, People got a ton of publicity for there brand this week on GMA and in all sorts of entertainment media.

The low dollar amount wasn’t necessarily due to waning interest in Aiken — one editor admitted that his magazine had been trying to get the singer to do a tell-all for a substantial sum long before the baby was in the picture. Instead, People had little competition for the photos, and in turn, no one to drive the price up.

“Gone are the days when any celebrity gets millions of dollars for their photos,” says one magazine editor. “Economically, it doesn’t make sense, and there is only so long that you can keep saying ‘It’s good for the brand.’ People is the magazine that’s most well-off, that has the finances right now to take on these exclusives.”

Once again, to me, that reads like a rival magazine trying to put down People - trying to knock down the one who's on the top of the heap.

OK! magazine’s Brian Strong confirmed that the weekly mag did participate in negotiations for the photos. Us Weekly, who in the past has bid on photos of Brad and Angelina, among others, was not part of the Aiken bidding, and neither were Life & Style or In Touch.

OK! is said to be watching its finances a little more closely, especially now that it’s hired a new general manager, Kent Brownridge. But Strong says the economy hasn't priced OK! out of the exclusives game. “The magazine is absolutely not changing its attitude toward big exclusives," Strong says. "When there's a big story out there, the magazine will continue to compete at a high level.”

Finally a named source. And if I had to guess, I'd lay money that this guy from OK! and his cohorts were the unnamed sources, too. While I'm sure People was probably the first choice for Clay and Jaymes, I could see OK! perhaps being a distant second choice. I think OK! has a reputation as being a more celeb-friendly and less trashy magazine than a complete tabloid like the National Enquirer or whatnot. And I could see Clay and Co. "negotiating" over timing and editorial content, rather than money.

And yeah, I'm probably completely off-base here with my intepretations. Wouldn't be the first time, surely won't be the last.

[luckiest1]

I freely admit I kind of dreaded seeing him after coming back from NYC on Friday. And he didn't disappoint - the very first words out of his mouth were - I told you he was queer. I said - yep you sure did. How could you tell? Experience??? Heh. It went on for a couple minutes - and then it was over. I don't imagine he's the last one who'll give me grief over it. But you know what? Anything I might have to 'bear' is miniscule compared to what Clay has faced his whole life (in OR out of the closet) and will most likely continue to face for the rest of it. So yeah - I'll just hold my head up, like I have for five years now - and say, 'You bet your ass I love him. Got a problem with that???'

Exactly. WWCD? He would hold his head up high (like he has always done) and live his life on his terms. Having to deal with people at work or even your own family who say "I told you so!" is nothing. My older son said to me "I knew he was gay" and I responded with "so you've slept with him then?" Shut him up quick. I'm not saying it's easy or comfortable, but it's so much less than what Clay has had to deal with for years and years.

Maybe he found her beautiful/wonderful and wanted to kiss her. There is no denying they had a lot of chemistry. I’ve been kissed by gay men before; those who are good friends. It wasn’t like there was tongue. It’s not like all gay men are afraid of girl cooties.

Hee, you took the words right out of my mouth.

[jmh123]

Hey, this has to be a quickie. Right now my friend is napping, so I'm stealing a few moments online. I was offline from Monday through last evening, and then I was only on an hour or so, and I'm still not caught up. Just wanted to say this is the board to catch up at, and that I was so glad to be in NYC at this time. Lilyshine and I got the news when we spotted the People Magazine on a newstand Wednesday late afternoon. Missed a lot of the unpleasantness that way. Given that I'm right now visiting with my BFF whose been out most of his life, but isn't "out" out at the moment for some complicated reasons, someone I witnessed be rejected for a job twenty years ago because of his orientation, I really understand the intricacies and complexities of sexual identity, and trying to conduct that on a national platform--good grief, that's hard. I love you all--this is a fabulous board. :F_05BL17blowkiss: I'm just going to download a bunch more pages, log off, and keep reading. I'll be back at home Tuesday, then leaving for a few days in Denver, but hope to post before then.