# 8 My titanium balled, taking his life into his big hands,

[playbiller]

Oooh, I am having some ABC lurve right now

Love A Show But Hate The Star? Starve Yourself

This article is about obsessive fans and haters and Sanjaya, but they have this nice little mention of Clay - the only other person from AI mentioned.

"With 'American Idol' younger viewers have a chance to experience the best music of the past with an updated style and fresh faces which are sometimes nice to look at. I've always loved that aspect of the show. I also really like how it can take an ordinary person and turn them into a superstar. Take Clay Aiken for example. Here is a guy who had a very hard childhood, got picked on constantly, but because of 'American Idol' discovering his amazing talent, he is now loved by hundreds of thousands," she wrote in an e-mail.

Sqeeeee, love it.

[Claygasm]

I appreciate all view points on the charity thing. I am sorry I even mentioned it. I guess its just my cynical bitch side that makes me think many - ok, maybe not many, but some - who are contributing to the BAF don't care AT ALL about inclusion but are only giving because its Clay. If he endorsed something absurd like gang violence, I bet these same lemmings would suddenly endorse gang violence!

There is nothing wrong with a celebrity bringing attention to a cause and learning about that cause because of the celebrity. But once finding out about it, if its not something you care about, why give money just because of that celebrity? That's what I don't understand.

And before you all think I am a mean bitch who hates kids, I'm not. I will admit kids are not my thing. Never have been. Even when I was a kid - I mean junior high age or so - I knew I didn't want any. There are some kids who are great, but they're not my thing. But despite that, I wish no harm to any child. My heart goes out to those who have kids that face special challenges in life and I can see the benefits of programs like the ones the BAF advocates. I have to tell you, though, that a friend of mine who spent 35 years as a teacher in the Philadelphia public school system has her doubts about the practicality of mainstreaming some kids in the classroom, but that's another issue. She has trouble supporting the BAF because of that.

Anyway, I promise not to say another word. I am thrilled the BAF is getting all this money and I hope they do stay in the top 6 and get the matching funds. I think this whole 6 Degrees idea of Kevin Bacon's has been great and I applaud everyone involved.

My feelings on what I have read on the boards are obviously singular to me (wouldn't be the first time!). My own inner guilt perhaps (I was born feeling guilty. Must be my Jewish half...). Whatever.

On a completely different note, here is a completely useless and irrelevant bit of information. When we first found out that Clay was probably going to sing "Moon River" and I went looking for other versions, one that I found was by Morrissey, of all people. Seems Morrissey is appearing at a lot of the same venues as Clay this summer. Wonder if he'll sing "Moon River" too.....

[JennaZ]

The charitable world has an interesting landscape. There are many, many worthy causes (poverty, disease, education, animals, etc.) all competing for the attention and dollars of the public. It doesn't bother me that celebrities are used, because as long as the benefit to the cause outweighs the expense, I think it's justified. If a $50K event pulls in $500K in donations, to me,the end justifies the means.

I did the Wrap for Inclusion one year. It was fun, but after a full day, we only made about $89. Not bad, but I couldn't help but think that one Gala ticket probably brought in more income.

I don't think anyone should feel bad about not donating to Clay's charities. I would hope that most, if they can, would occasionally do something (donate, volunteer, spread the word) to make a difference in the world. Clay's causes, while worthy, are not the only ones deserving of support, which I'm sure he'd be the first to say.

Personally, I don't mind the badge reminders. I just hope that people don't feel guilted into giving. Clay's causes are good ones, and I've given money myself. However, I think people should give because they believe in the goal. Clay helps make us more aware of certain issues, which is great. But I doubt he'd want fans to donate just because they think it benefits him or his image.

[JennaZ]

Sorry, double post. I always press the wrong buttons when I try to post from my Blackberry.

Edited March 29, 2007 by JennaZ

[Couch Tomato]

Great topic Claygasm and I'm glad you brought it up. I've been known to rant about a thing or two that bothers me. I guess for me I look beyond when there is some major thing going on like this Kevin Bacon thing and realize there are quite a few folks that do stuff for TBAF all year long. When it comes to UNICEF I don't really give to it unless I'm getting something in return. For instance, last Christmas I bought their Xmas cards that were designed by kids. And yep Clay always made the point of giving to the charities that are meaningful to you, not just his own.

[Claygasm]

I think Ticketmaster shamed the OFC into posting the Orlando concert! They put it up on their site, with the fanclub presale date. At that time is wasn't up at the OFC.

Now it is.

No Tampa yet, though.

I really want to know if this is the last concert. Airfare is sooooooooooo cheap from here and while I don't think I could afford to do the entire Florida 3-fer, if Orlando is the last concert I could go for that one.

Come on Team Clay! Please let us know before the presale!

[djs111]

Hmmmm... the point about mainstreaming...as my grandson has extreme ADHD and is partially deaf, I have conflicting feelings about that. He is now in a charter school that has mostly ADD and ADHD kids, and boy, are they lively and/or unruly!

I would love for him to be in a regular class, but it is not fair to him OR to the other kids, at times. He does not need to be getting reprimanded all the time, and the class doesn't need to be interrupted, either.

The deafness? Those kids are packed away into little classes as if they are mentally challenged or something. And they tend to mix all ages together, so sometimes the older kids are not on a level with their age group because they are in a one-size-fits-all situation.

I don't know how many here have been around a child who is NEVER still - not in the movies, not watching TV, just never still, and cannot stop talking - he is only still when he is sleeping! Anyway, I applaud BAF for at least trying to get the challenged kids into the bigger world - they have to live in it one day, after all.

Nicest thing today - I picked my grandson up after school, and on the way home, on a very busy highway 301, traffic was stopped completely, then started crawling, both ways - it was because a gorgeous and stately pair of sand cranes (4 or 5 feet tall, I am always astounded at their beauty, and we have a lot of them walking around here) were walking slowly and carefully across the six-lane highway with their big long-legged fuzzy chick, and cars were stopping and going very slowly both to give them safe journey and to just look at them.

Oh, I hope Orlando is the last concert, because I cannot do a Florida 4-fer, and I really should not be doing the Texas 2-fer. Traveler and I did cancel the Biltmore concert, tho.

[rcknrllmom]

well. I may have to post and run...i.e. Inclusion.....It CAN be done and successfully....why NOT? do we have special wal marts? grocery stores? no....If we have or want an inclusive world, we better start in the schools. If you want your child to learn about the right behavior...which classroom do you think the modeling should come from?

I could go on, but I wont , only to say that we had to fight for inclusion every step of the way....we were ganged up on by regular teachers in middle school...one finally stood up and said enough...ALL kids have worth. It was horrible. I have had teachers apologize to me....that they were sorry they fought the inclusion...It made a big difference to Jamie....and to ALL the kids he was included with. Can you imagine if we always segregated those with disabilities...how would these kids when they became adults know how to treat these people?

I always found , the kids were great, the adults not so much...

and now I am duct taping my mouth shut before it gets me into trouble....

[KAndre]

Hmmm, interesting conversation...as for inclusion - I'm all for the situation and I think in the majority of cases it is totally appropriate - but there are some cases where it is not. Ideally, we need to do the best we can for each child - practically, in some cases there are sacrifices to be made. The question always is, for whom? And how do you spread the sacrifice out?

I know this will sound wrong, but back in the day, I was one of those kids that was place in a "gifted" school (It's one of those complicated stories - the school was fully segregated as late as 1970 in one of the best neighborhoods in Houston, they did the magnet school program to desegregate it, it got to the point that the school was so highly rated that the neighborhood kids couldn't go to it even if they wanted to - which was a total switch from when it first desegregated. I remember being "mainstreamed" back into the general population and I was a bitter, bitter child. I wanted my Latin back. And I know it sounds horrible but I felt like I was being taught to the lower common denominator, and was being punished.

But I was also one of those mothers that said in T-ball - everybody plays. Come hell or high water. Everyone learn the game together.

Sigh. A complicated issue.

[atinal]

Way off topic, but since I don't have any upcoming concert I can eeeeeeee about (yet), I've found myself enjoying a discussion topic in the Chatter section over at the CH. It's called "Help, Clay has turned me into a Slob", Before this topic started at the CH, I think KAndre, may have made me look around at my stacks of stuff that need to be pitched or put away, when she posted that she had been moving furniture.

Anyway, the purpose of the the discussion is exchanging cleaning and organizing tips. Some have been pretty good and I'm trying to use some of the tips. One was to set a timer for a given number of minutes and see how much you could get done in that time. Well, a little while ago, I set the timer for 30 minutes, I think I got 10 minutes worth of work done. I think I'm doing something wrong. It kind of reminds me of exercise tapes. I like to watch them, I don't usually exercise with them though. Ah Ha, now I know something I can pitch.

[Claygasm]

I don't know much about whether inclusion works or not in schools. No experience whatsoever with it. In theory it should be a no brainer. Kids with special needs should not be segregated. On the other hand, there is the argument that the needs of the majority should over ride the needs of a few.

It seems to me it as hard to make a blanket statement about whether inclusion will work as it is to make a blanket statement about all kids. It will probably work in some cases and not in others. Certainly if including some kids with special needs means the educational needs of the kids without special needs are not being met, then is it fair to those kids? Should they be held back or have their classes disrupted by a child with special needs? Certainly, that does NOT happen with every child with special needs. In fact, it often happens with so-called "normal" kids. Probably more often with them than the special needs kids!

My friend who is the teacher is hesitant to be for blanket inclusion for many reasons. She spent her career teaching in a not so great city school system which always seems to be in a financial crisis. They have a hard time getting decent teachers. Few are trained or prepared to handle special needs kids. Many of the so-called "normal" kids are rough and tough and trouble makers. There is violence in the schools. They are over crowded. It is hard enough to keep some kind of control in the classroom and teach these kids without having to take the extra effort and time to include kids with special needs (obviously it depends on the kid as to how much extra effort it would take). These classrooms aren't always the best places for kids without disabilties, much less for kids with special needs.

It is a complicated issue and I can see both sides of the argument. In a perfect world all kids could be seemlessly mainstreamed. In a perfect world the so-called "normal" kids and the special need kids would all learn to live together happily and with no problems. But this is far from a perfect world.

Not knowing anything from experience, to me every child should be evaluated individulally. For some, mainstreaming could work in the classroom. For others, it might not be fair to either the child, the other children in the class, or the teacher. However, if they can't be in a class with others, they certainly should have the same resources for a quality education as others have.

I do think there should be much more of an effort to mainstream kids in social situations - like the camps for example. The classroom is one thing, but outside the classroom it seems to me having all the kids together would be an enriching experience for everyone.

I hope nothing I said offends anyone here who has had personal experience with this kind of thing. As I said, I have none and cannot and would not ever say I can imagine what it would be like. I can't. My opinions are just based on things I have read and heard. I surely don't pretend to have all the answers! Hell, I have a hard enough time running my own life these days!!

ETA: EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! From the OFC!!!!

JUST IN!!! Clay will be the exclusive musical performer for an upcoming TV special NBC is planning to air on Christmas Day. The show will tape in November & a limited amount of tickets will be available for purchase in the near future. Stay Tuned for more details.

Edited March 29, 2007 by Claygasm

[djs111]

Oh, I feel everyone who has expressed an opinion here has been fair and balanced, and yes, mainstreaming in schools should be evaluated individually.

My Jacob's kindergarten teacher used to almost scream at him, because she liked to have all the kids sitting quietly, writing (yes, in kindergarten, thank you Jebbie) and Jacob had yet to be diagnosed with deafness and ADHD. So Jacob and his teacher both thought he was slow and bad. She blocked him from going into 1st grade, but sent him to a new teacher to re-do kindergarten. Halfway through the first day, the new teacher took him to take a little learning test, and told the principal Jacob was already capable of 1st grade work, he just had other problems that would be made worse by repeating. He was actually impatiently teaching the other kids. Bless her. Jacob got heavy-duty evaluation, and was moved into a class in a different school with ADHD kids who also had hearing problems. he has his problems, but at least he has never been treated as willfully bad and stupid again!

With so many older people here in Florida, I hear "why should I pay more taxes for schools when I don't have any kids?" - Um, that would be because every item or service or convenience or necessity you need has to be performed or provided by somebody's kid who has to be educated. Duh.

And you never know, that kid who cannot interact with the rest of the world, or hear it, or has trouble paying attention to it, not only is equally human and deserving of an education, but just may be the one who discovers a cure for something, or something like that!

Okay, off my soapbox!

I am immoderately fond of the banner at the ClackHouse. Not so much the mouse-over, but wow what a picture!

EEEEEE!!!! for a Christmas special!!!!!!!!! I wonder if part will be from a Christmas concert!

Exclusive performer? Why yes, he is!!!!!!!!

Edited March 29, 2007 by djs111

[KAndre]

I bet it's the skating thingie!

[Clayzorback]

Just posted on OFC. NBC will be doing a Christmas show and Clay will be the exclusive musical guest.

It will tape November 8th and air on Christmas Day. You can purchase tickets, but there will be a limited supply. It says to stay tuned for more details.

Nobody does Christmas like Clay.

Edited to say: Well shi* I should of read before posting. HaHaHa

I'm not going to get in on the debate. Except to say that I can agree with something everyone has said.

Edited March 29, 2007 by Clayzorback

[ldyjocelyn]

I bet it's the skating thingie!

That was my first thought as well. But, whatever it might be, I'm sure I'll just be madly, passionately all over it.

As for the discussion at hand today, I'll just interject here that I'm like Claygasm in that I don't have kids, and feel that it's not for me to really say much of anything. However, I have a SIL who teaches children with autism, and I know the fights she has to face. Also, my best friend is a special ed teacher, and she did her Master's thesis on inclusion. I guess I feel as many have said -- it's really an individual thing, but it's unfortunate that there seems to be neither the time or resources to do individual work with students to assess their needs in so many instances.

And yes, most of my giving to the BAF is simply because of Clay's name attached to it. I'll freely admit that. But why do I do that, because of his name? IMO, I'm not doing it because I want Clay's attention; it's more because I want the foundation to be successful. But I also know that the "attention" thing is the reason why at least a few do it. *shrug*

[Claygasm]

I bet it's the skating thingie!

I bet you're right! Cool!

Well, now that we know what Clay will be doing for Christmas, do you suppose they could let us know what Clay will be doing the rest of the summer??????

[KAndre]

No, Claygasm - if you had put your question in all CAPS, a bright maroon shade and included a diss to Clive, they would have told us! You clearly don't know how to whine appropriately - I've seen you "claim" to "whine" here, or be "grumpy" and have yet to see any real evidence - you've even laughed in the middle of a grumpy spell.

Now go to the OFC and learn how to do it right!

Heh.

You know Clique has hired some sort of high school intern who is busily fantasizing about Clay instead of pushing the buttons to post important stuff like the rest of the tour dates...

[Ansamcw]

WOW what great discussions...I have been following it all day just too busy doing housework to reply properly...

Inclusion....I guess that is why Clay's foundation exist because you cannot just put special needs kids with other kids with no preparation or adjustment and expect everything to go smoothly. There really is a need for funding, for training, special equipments to make this happen successfully

For example...I am very lucky that the school board we are in is quite committed to inclusion. For every special need child or child with learning disability, the school will be given extra funding to hire TA's and even buy special equipment. Caitlin has a TA with her at all times. It does not mean that the TA sits with her and does everything for her...but she is there to assist the teacher so that Cait does not take away from the other children and gets the attention she needs. IF she is disruptive...which is very rare, the TA takes her out...when there are activities she cannot handle the TA does one on one with her. In the playground there is a dedicated supervisor for her and she has a special touch screen computer with a special keyboard. But they always try to let her participate in class she gets the same work sheets, if she wants to join in the discussion she is called upon and she when she jabbers on in a language no one understands...nobody snickers, they all accept that and most of the kids are thrilled when she does things.

The effect of Caitlin on the other kids is also pretty special. One time I was substituting for her teacher and her TA had to go for a doctors appointment...so I didn't have any assistance for her...so I asked the class, who would want to help out with Cait...I got so many volunteers and these other 6 and 7 year olds were so great with her, even took her to the bathroom and were doing one on one work with her. The most profound effect I see are with the big kids, the grade 7&8's. Specially with the boys...it is not unusual to see the toughest baddest boys in the school playing with Cait or down on their knees talking to her or asking for hugs. She is very well loved in her school and I think it helps build character when kids learn to deal with kids that are not like them

YAY for the NBC christmas special!!! This sounds more involved if he is the exclusive musical guest...EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Ansamcw]

Way off topic, but since I don't have any upcoming concert I can eeeeeeee about (yet), I've found myself enjoying a discussion topic in the Chatter section over at the CH. It's called "Help, Clay has turned me into a Slob", Before this topic started at the CH, I think KAndre, may have made me look around at my stacks of stuff that need to be pitched or put away, when she posted that she had been moving furniture.

Anyway, the purpose of the the discussion is exchanging cleaning and organizing tips. Some have been pretty good and I'm trying to use some of the tips. One was to set a timer for a given number of minutes and see how much you could get done in that time. Well, a little while ago, I set the timer for 30 minutes, I think I got 10 minutes worth of work done. I think I'm doing something wrong. It kind of reminds me of exercise tapes. I like to watch them, I don't usually exercise with them though. Ah Ha, now I know something I can pitch.

hee this is me today...I was doing laundry cleaning the upstairs and the bathrooms...it took me so much more time to do it cos kept stopping and reading the boards. At least I didn't try to post until everythign was done...

sigh...now I'm pretty tired...

[muskifest]

It's so refreshing to come in here and read thoughtful, respectful posts.

I am so very lucky. My two daughters are both (so far) without need for special help at school. (Unless you can call getting Carrie to stop giggling so much in class a problem---Lord knows, it becomes that at home sometimes.heh)...but I taught high school English for seven years in a rural area in the '70's and 80's. There was NO inclusion. There was Special Ed and that's it. And everybody knew who the kids in that class were.

As a substitute teacher here a few years ago, I saw more inclusion. For example, in a second grade class there was a boy who is hearing impaired. He wore a special headset and I wore a device around my neck that amplified my voice. He also had a dedicated TA with him all day. She explained that his needs went beyond hearing problems. I found most of the kids in the class to be 'tolerant' of him, but for the most part they didn't socialize with him very much.

In Carrie's fourth grade class as a substitute I saw more evidence of and attempt at systematic inclusion.There were three students who, at various times during the week, left the classroom to go to special classes. One went to a reading teacher; another to a teacher who worked on speech therapy, etc. They'd be gone an hour or so and then come back. Of those three, two seemed quite comfortable with our class in spite of their participation in these other activities. The third boy, though, seemed pretty much unfazed both by what we did in the "mainstream" classroom or with his specialized instruction. He was quiet and friendly enough, but he honestly could not understand what we were doing---ever. The teacher had a special file of worksheets for him. While the rest of the class was doing decimals, for instance, Nick got a worksheet of simple addition.

I was really, really uncomfortable with Nick. I didn't know how to deal. He didn't seem to care too much about anything, although a couple of times he did come to my desk to ask for help. However, one interesting thing. One day during recess, he came over to me to tell me that a boy was being mean to another boy. He told me he tried to talk to the mean boy, but that the boy just called him names. He wouldn't tell me what the names were, though. After I talked to both of the boys involved, neither one would say anymore, but I saw the victimized boy talking with Nick afterwards and they seemed friendly. So even though he often kept to himself, he seemed interested and willing to 'champion' someone else socially.

I know that I was upset at myself during that week of being a sub in that class. I didn't like how I felt about these 'special needs' kids---they made things complicated and interrupted the general flow of the class. They made me feel unsuccessful and I wished there was some other way to give them the attention they deserved. And the simplified worksheets made me feel awful---like I was just throwing some busy work at him to keep him occupied.

Funny PS to this. One day a lot later during that year I subbed for the second grade class that had the hearing impaired boy, Carrie told me about one afternoon in the playground when a couple of girls she knew were making fun of him. She said she told them they were being mean, that she had talked with him and he was nice. I tried not to get too mushy, but I was so happy to know that she did that on her own.

It's a really complicated issue. Although my whole professional life has been focused on education in one aspect or another, I am NOT trained or educated in addressing it. I think I like the idea of BAF because I can SO imagine Clay being successful at it and really believe that he wouldn't allow the foundation to be anything but something he's proud of, you know?

End of speech.

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

Edited March 30, 2007 by muskifest

[muskifest]

I've killed the thread.

So.....read any good books lately?

Wait! I just finished one! It's the one I was reading about Greg Mortensen, the man who, after failing to reach the summit of K2, got lost and was saved by a village of Pakistani people. He got to know them and then, seeing how incredibly isolated and poverty-stricken they were (in the mountains of the K2/Everest range) and how they had no education for the kids to speak of, decided that that was what he wanted to dedicate his life to making happen.

He has and his story is absolutely amazing. So often while reading I thought of the parallels with Clay and how much they'd both love sitting down and talking together.

The name of the book is "Three Cups of Tea" by Greg Mortenson and David Oliver Relin. Another great thing abou this book is that the journalist who wrote this with Greg is an excellent writer! Know how sometimes the person who's putting together someone's story isn't so great at it? Well, I really loved this writer's style. It was truly a fantastic read, and I learned a lot about Pakistan, Afghanistan and the convoluted relationships with India, the Taliban, etc.

Now I'm all juiced to go back to the library and get something else! :medium-smiley-070:

Edited March 30, 2007 by muskifest

[Divayenta]

Well, I learned a lot here today. Great posts.

I just finished reading "You'll Never Nanny in this Town Again" by Suzanne Hansen. She was a nanny to CAA giant Michael Ovitz' family. What a frickin' nightmare! It's a must read. It also honors the real hard work of everyday moms- unlike the celebs who appear to be masters of discipline and time management. In actuality they have loads of staff to do everything for them. There are some who don't who are cool like Debra Winger and Danny deVito and Rhea Perlman.

There are many magnificent animal rescue groups and proponents of humane treatment of animals. It doesn't mean that one is automatically a supporter of PETA when one honors these groups.

Can't wait to meet you too , Claygasm :F_05BL17blowkiss: .

[Couch Tomato]

No, Claygasm - if you had put your question in all CAPS, a bright maroon shade and included a diss to Clive, they would have told us! You clearly don't know how to whine appropriately - I've seen you "claim" to "whine" here, or be "grumpy" and have yet to see any real evidence - you've even laughed in the middle of a grumpy spell.

Now go to the OFC and learn how to do it right!.

Word KAndre! Claygasm, you're a peach - can't wait to get to know you better in Cali.

[Claygasm]

I love you guys!! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

And I come bearing gifts. Of course, those of you who frequent the CH have already seen this, but in case you missed it.......

From LauraQ and snitchseeker at CB via demeter at CV:

Snitchseeker pointed these out below, thank you!!!!! how did we miss these? There are 5 interviews on iTunes, he talks about song choices, BAF and his experiences on his first Unicef trip to Bande Aceh. Don't miss it!

Go to Podcasts in iTunes and then search for Your Idols.

Do a Power Search for "Your Idols," and then click on the picture (featuring Fantasia, Chris Daughtry, Carrie, Clay and Ruben) to pull up the list of episodes. There are 5 different episodes with Clay.

I'm listening now...it's definitely worth checking out!

I am downloading now. HOw did t he Clay Nation miss these for so long???

ETA: Listening now. These are soooo good!!!!!!! He's talking about how much he hates the album and how Clive held a gun to his head and threatened his mama and that's why he made the type of album he did and chose the songs he did. He really hates them all and wants nothing to do with the album!!!

(The above was brought to your by SnarkRUs)

ETAA: Ooooo! TOA is his favorite original!! That means he'll probably sing it in concert! Woo hoo!

Edited March 30, 2007 by Claygasm

[Ansamcw]

:F_05BL17blowkiss: :F_05BL17blowkiss:

thanks for bringing this to our attention.

I really love it.