#22: Which brings us to Clay Aiken, as most good conversations should

[cha cha trusty]

I just have to inject this.

Anyone remember, or better have a copy of, the magazine picture where Clay, Ruben and some AI types are lined up with some dogs? Clay is doing the bunny ears thing to the person next to him. Might have been Ruben.

I'll have to try to track that down!

Yep, I remember that. I'm betting Simon agreed to it before hand though ;-)

I think I have that on my home computer!! Not at home right now....

Getting nervous about the weather on Fri/Sat!! ACKKKKK!

[YSRN]

I just have to inject this.

Anyone remember, or better have a copy of, the magazine picture where Clay, Ruben and some AI types are lined up with some dogs? Clay is doing the bunny ears thing to the person next to him. Might have been Ruben.

I'll have to try to track that down!

Yep, I remember that. I'm betting Simon agreed to it before hand though ;-)

Heh, which would mean someone had to ask. ;-)

I'm sure it was Simon... Clay would never suggest such a horrible thing.

[cindilu2]

I just have to inject this.

Anyone remember, or better have a copy of, the magazine picture where Clay, Ruben and some AI types are lined up with some dogs? Clay is doing the bunny ears thing to the person next to him. Might have been Ruben.

I'll have to try to track that down!

Yep, I remember that. I'm betting Simon agreed to it before hand though ;-)

Heh, which would mean someone had to ask. ;-)

I'm sure it was Simon... Clay would never suggest such a horrible thing.

Was probably the photographer.

But yeah, it's good to make sure that Clay is the bad guy in this meet and greet thing.

I sure don't get this fandom sometimes.

[playbiller]

OK, we are ready to head off. I( am just checking the traffic and then we are going. We are stopping at my Brother's house first for an hour and tthen heading to Morristown at 5 to find parking and a restaurant. Schools were closed there today. Anyone want to volunteer to call my cell if this is cancelled, since we won't be online?

[jmh123]

YSRN, I appreciate that you feel sorry for this young lady, and don't think she should be bashed the way that she has been bashed. I don't think she should've been either. I think she made a mistake by taking the argument to CV, and that showed poor judgement on her part, but that isn't to say that she deserved to be bashed there, just that it was inevitable. I also don't think Clay should've been bashed the way he has, over this and the Spamalot comment, his story choices and so forth. It's been jump all over Clay week with some folks, even before this happened.

Sometimes this fandom isn't pretty, and I've seen a lot of not-very-nice posts, about Clay, about Q & A, about Broadway, and about this young lady. I don't read a lot at the OFC, and while I did read some of that thread, I didn't read all of it and don't really have the proper context to sort out all the people involved and so on. I don't think Clay acted perfectly, but I also don't think she acted perfectly after the fact. Some things it would've been better if he'd done differently, likewise for her. I feel sorry for her, but I also feel sorry for him.

This whole thing takes me back to Hockeygate. I remember at the time how hard it was to see posts blaming the people who were there, some completely OTT (my least favorite being the posts suggesting that if only we were young and pretty this would never have happened). My reaction to the whole thing was to be very hurt, but I didn't do a lot of expressing of that hurt on line. Maybe one post at CP, can't remember, and maybe one or two at the CB. It wasn't my approach to try to argue with all and sundry and try to convince them to see it my way. (But I did vent with friends.) I almost gave up on the boards altogether at the time.

Looking back, that hockey game meet-and-greet was a very complicated situation that I understand a lot better now than I did at the time. One huge factor in my disappointment was the realization that he isn't that shiny sparkly guy we see on stage in RL, not all the time. It was my introduction to his serious side, and it was shocking when one expects to be meeting the charismatic, bubbly TV/concert personality and that's not who you get. Another factor was the realization that I'm never going to be anything but another fan to him. Silly as it may be, I guess many of us, to one degree or another, entertain the fantasy that if he ever met us he'd realize we should be his new best friend, and he'd just instantly love us so much. I think especially for some young women there's probably a additional hope that there will be a spark, something special between you when you finally meet. The few people I've known who have been unhappy with their meet and greets have expressed to me that they were disappointed that he didn't make them feel special, that he treated them like just another fan. I think the other expectation is unrealistic but understandable. A third factor, not known at the time, was that camera flashes bothered him. None of us knew that then, and Jerome's announcement about it wasn't heard by anyone further away than a few feet. I was flashing away and had no idea this was a bad thing, and yet it was obvious by his and Jerome's reactions that we were doing a bad thing, but we had no clue what it was. A fourth factor was his panic attacks, which none of us were aware of then either. I was hurt that he seemed so afraid of us--but now I understand that. So at the time I was hurt by him, hurt by the boards, and altogether unhappy. Now, having had that experience, I know him as a fallible, not always perfect, not always nice person, and my expectations are very different as a result. It was my one and only meeting with Clay, altogether unpleasant in many, many ways, but my fandom has survived. I know that a large majority of people who meet him personally have a great experience, and I do believe that he does his very best to make that happen. Sometimes it falls short, and that's OK with me.

As for the fans, there are a lot of wonderful people in the fandom, people I love dearly. There are also some jerks, and some people who are sometimes wonderful and sometimes jerks. There are some crazy folks, really OTT, and even a few of those are friends. I have definitely been disgusted by the behavior of some fans lately, the sense of entitlement, the rude comments, the lack of compassion, the nasty bashing. I sympathize with playbiller, who had it up to here last night. I also sympathize with YSRN, who feels compassion for this young lady who's been bashed so much on the boards (but has also received lots of sympathy). I also feel for the people whose wonderful concert experiences, memorable meet-and-greets and story-reading opportunities have been overshadowed by this spate of fan drama, and I feel sorry for people like me who unrealistically just want everybody to be nice and happy, happy, happy all the time. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[Couch Tomato]

KAndre...read your PM i wanna go to lunch...

[wandacleo]

I think that (some) people get so caught up in Clay's life and so familiar with it that they begin to believe that he is a friend and that they can treat him that way. But, Clay's NOT a friend--he's an educated, intelligent, wealthy businessman and performer. The M&Gs are part of his job. At my M&G, some people asked ridiculous questions to bring attention to themselves, some asked invasive personal questions, some made their expectation that he "knew" them from past encounters very clear.

Clay has said that he's a nerd, not a wimp: He responded to these people accordingly. Those people who asked reasonable questions and showed respect for Clay were treated with the utmost respect.

People shouldn't expect more from Clay than they proffer.

[FromClaygary]

I apologize, but I can NOT cut a thing from these two amazing posts....

Nodding my head so hard I about broke my neck!

YSRN, I appreciate that you feel sorry for this young lady, and don't think she should be bashed the way that she has been bashed. I don't think she should've been either. I think she made a mistake by taking the argument to CV, and that showed poor judgement on her part, but that isn't to say that she deserved to be bashed there, just that it was inevitable. I also don't think Clay should've been bashed the way he has, over this and the Spamalot comment, his story choices and so forth. It's been jump all over Clay week with some folks, even before this happened.

Sometimes this fandom isn't pretty, and I've seen a lot of not-very-nice posts, about Clay, about Q & A, about Broadway, and about this young lady. I don't read a lot at the OFC, and while I did read some of that thread, I didn't read all of it and don't really have the proper context to sort out all the people involved and so on. I don't think Clay acted perfectly, but I also don't think she acted perfectly after the fact. Some things it would've been better if he'd done differently, likewise for her. I feel sorry for her, but I also feel sorry for him.

This whole thing takes me back to Hockeygate. I remember at the time how hard it was to see posts blaming the people who were there, some completely OTT (my least favorite being the posts suggesting that if only we were young and pretty this would never have happened). My reaction to the whole thing was to be very hurt, but I didn't do a lot of expressing of that hurt on line. Maybe one post at CP, can't remember, and maybe one or two at the CB. It wasn't my approach to try to argue with all and sundry and try to convince them to see it my way. (But I did vent with friends.) I almost gave up on the boards altogether at the time.

Looking back, that hockey game meet-and-greet was a very complicated situation that I understand a lot better now than I did at the time. One huge factor in my disappointment was the realization that he isn't that shiny sparkly guy we see on stage in RL, not all the time. It was my introduction to his serious side, and it was shocking when one expects to be meeting the charismatic, bubbly TV/concert personality and that's not who you get. Another factor was the realization that I'm never going to be anything but another fan to him. Silly as it may be, I guess many of us, to one degree or another, entertain the fantasy that if he ever met us he'd realize we should be his new best friend, and he'd just instantly love us so much. I think especially for some young women there's probably a additional hope that there will be a spark, something special between you when you finally meet. The few people I've known who have been unhappy with their meet and greets have expressed to me that they were disappointed that he didn't make them feel special, that he treated them like just another fan. I think the other expectation is unrealistic but understandable. A third factor, not known at the time, was that camera flashes bothered him. None of us knew that then, and Jerome's announcement about it wasn't heard by anyone further away than a few feet. I was flashing away and had no idea this was a bad thing, and yet it was obvious by his and Jerome's reactions that we were doing a bad thing, but we had no clue what it was. A fourth factor was his panic attacks, which none of us were aware of then either. I was hurt that he seemed so afraid of us--but now I understand that. So at the time I was hurt by him, hurt by the boards, and altogether unhappy. Now, having had that experience, I know him as a fallible, not always perfect, not always nice person, and my expectations are very different as a result. It was my one and only meeting with Clay, altogether unpleasant in many, many ways, but my fandom has survived. I know that a large majority of people who meet him personally have a great experience, and I do believe that he does his very best to make that happen. Sometimes it falls short, and that's OK with me.

As for the fans, there are a lot of wonderful people in the fandom, people I love dearly. There are also some jerks, and some people who are sometimes wonderful and sometimes jerks. There are some crazy folks, really OTT, and even a few of those are friends. I have definitely been disgusted by the behavior of some fans lately, the sense of entitlement, the rude comments, the lack of compassion, the nasty bashing. I sympathize with playbiller, who had it up to here last night. I also sympathize with YSRN, who feels compassion for this young lady who's been bashed so much on the boards (but has also received lots of sympathy). I also feel for the people whose wonderful concert experiences, memorable meet-and-greets and story-reading opportunities have been overshadowed by this spate of fan drama, and I feel sorry for people like me who unrealistically just want everybody to be nice and happy, happy, happy all the time. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

I think that (some) people get so caught up in Clay's life and so familiar with it that they begin to believe that he is a friend and that they can treat him that way. But, Clay's NOT a friend--he's an educated, intelligent, wealthy businessman and performer. The M&Gs are part of his job. At my M&G, some people asked ridiculous questions to bring attention to themselves, some asked invasive personal questions, some made their expectation that he "knew" them from past encounters very clear.

Clay has said that he's a nerd, not a wimp: He responded to these people accordingly. Those people who asked reasonable questions and showed respect for Clay were treated with the utmost respect.

People shouldn't expect more from Clay than they proffer.

I remember the Chicago booksigning...I got an extra moment because I was an (unintentional) idiot...but what I really remember was his entry to the bookstore. He looked scared to death, and as I knew about the meds and the panic at that time, I was frightened FOR him, and SO proud of him for carrying on.

I'm still proud of him, every single day.

Thanks for the good wishes re the trip! I'm taking it one day and one mile at a time. Keeping my fingers crossed for all the other travelers as well!

[KAndre]

KAndre stops decapitating her gingerbread man long enough to answer couchie's PM...

Do they have warm stuff to drink in the Great Northern Tundra? Am I gonna have to bring fire?

See, for me, jmh did an ideal sharing thingie, showing me enough of her perspective that I feel sympathy for her and Clay, and to realize that I am coming from a very different place than she. It may not work for everybody. KAndre fights her fingers to keep from typing, "and that makes them wrong", realizes her fingers have minds of their own and simply includes parenthetical phrases. If this was coming out of the blue, I would ask for clarification on the "not always nice" phrasing (mainly because another poster - not here - has managed to make me twitch every time she declares how Clay is not nice) because I don't think Clay is always nice (because I don't thing everyone is always nice, but nothing in your description of Hockeygate that Clay actually did qualifies as not nice for me (the not being who he seemed to be on TV, the lack of specialization, or his discomfort and/or fear) because to me saying "not always nice" sort of implies he did something "not nice" and it may not have been meant that way.

And I am eyeing you suspiciously as well, jmh, as I have confessed to sometimes being pissy, which means I want to drag others with me! Happy happy joy joy all the time, indeed!

[laughn]

I think the motto for my own personal fandom is not, 'let Clay be Clay,' but 'let Clay be human.' That, I think, is far more difficult. I think the same thing for his fans too. There is not a doubt in my mind that just like every other human being on earth, Clay Aiken can be angry, huffy, sad, and grumpy, as well as happy, silly, excited, and loving...and all the other emotions we all share in common. Same for the girl from the M&G.

As far as I'm concerned, feelings need to be validated. The girl had every right to be sad and let down and much as Clay had a right to not be 'Mr. Upbeat and Happy.' There should be no need to defend or attack either one...unless you want to complain about them both being human. I don't require perfect out of others, not unless I expect to be that way myself...and since I've yet to figure out how to be that, I guess I'll just keep giving others the benefit of the doubt. I hope they would do the same for me.

[ldyjocelyn]

My day at work has been MUCH better than yesterday. Only went over two performance appraisals, and both people took the whole thing in stride. Also, a staff meeting that I thought could seriously get out of hand -- didn't. Tomorrow is a quiet day for me, but then next week, the whole appraisal process starts again. (There's a LOT of staff around here....)

Must get to work, but I just wanted to drop this off.

I do love a great big Clay smile to start my day!!

And I hope I'm not the only goof that's grinning like an idiot back at my computer screen...

I saw that picture this morning, and....maybe that's why my day has gone better. I lurve this picture.

CG, thank you too for your pictures, and that one "gotcha" picture. That made me LOL.

As for the rants/thoughts/sharing of feelings *g* here today -- man, too much to quote, so I'm not going to. Instead, I'll just thank you all for being a small portion of sanity in this fandom. (OK, sometimes we get insane too....and that's fine by me.)

I think I'm at the point where I'm fascinated by how different people react to the same information, and the differences in filters. It can be tiring, to be sure, but it is interesting how two rational, sane people can read the same account of a M&G and come up with two totally different reactions. Multiply that by 3,000 or so, and you can understand by tiredness. At the same time, though, I try to understand where each and every thought/feeling comes from, in order to learn from the experience.

"Let Clay be Human." I think I like that.

Glad Clay & Co. made it to the venue safe and sound, and I hope everyone traveling there for the show has good snow tires, food and water in the car with them, and no bad luck!

[jumpingjacks]

If you don't expect anything, you are never disappointed. I met Clay during the NAT, I think....it was hotter than hell in Clay County, IA, I do remember that. It was still the "line up, do not touch, have one thing to sign, put your cameras here, smile"...type of meet and greet. I would give my last kidney (heh!) to have a meet and greet like they are doing them now.

As miserable as the heat was, I will never forget standing there thinking.."WTF, he's got his khaki shorts and his green/yellow striped polo on and it looks like he just got out of bed!" (takes a minute....) Anyway...I still have that picture up in my office...he was no more CLAY AIKEN!!!1!!1! than I was...he was Clayton Aiken. There is a huge difference. Huge.

20 min. later CLAY AIKEN!!!!1!!1! came on the stage, I looked at my friend and said "that is NOT the same man I just met".

I think the way the meet and greets are held, now, people are getting Clayton Aiken all the time....maybe Clayton isn't as "perfect" as CLAY AIKEN!!!1!!1!

I kinda like both of them...*shrug*

[jmh123]

Well, I tend to think that the world isn't so much trying to squash the 'feelings' so much as some of the expressions of them. Having them is cool. Occasionally, to be truthful, sharing them isn't always the best thing. Depends on the the sharer, the sharee and the situation. In general, people don't actually dance on people's graves - and in a fandom, a lot of people just don't want to hear bad things. I don't really think fandoms in general are set up to treat happiness with the object of the fandom and disappointment with the object of the fandom with equal weight - being a fandom predisposes a favoritism to the happiness side.

So true, so true. And a fandom that isn't predisposed to favor the object of the fandom just isn't going to be fun for me. And I just can't see the point if I'm not having fun.

If this was coming out of the blue, I would ask for clarification on the "not always nice" phrasing (mainly because another poster - not here - has managed to make me twitch every time she declares how Clay is not nice) because I don't think Clay is always nice (because I don't thing everyone is always nice, but nothing in your description of Hockeygate that Clay actually did qualifies as not nice for me (the not being who he seemed to be on TV, the lack of specialization, or his discomfort and/or fear) because to me saying "not always nice" sort of implies he did something "not nice" and it may not have been meant that way).

Better choice of words in this particular example would've been "Clay isn't always warm and friendly."

And I am eyeing you suspiciously as well, jmh, as I have confessed to sometimes being pissy, which means I want to drag others with me! Happy happy joy joy all the time, indeed!

Make others feel pissy and they're gonna act pissy.

Wise stuff, laughn.

Everyone on the road please be extra careful!!

[KAndre]

KAndre stands on the crumbs of the cannabalized gingerbreadman and thumps her chest...

See! jmh doesn't keep track of the number of parentheses I used! See! Someone thought I forgot! HA HAHA!

What?

Y'all know the Clay fandom never forgets anything!

For all who are looking at me (and my posts) blankly, almost a year ago today, Ansa, with much praise for my recaps but, BUT, she noticed a lack of PAIRING (and spaces and paragraphs, but we won't mention that).

Yes, I actually do tend to read and remember vaguely everything you post.

[jmh123]

)

There.

Because I guess there can be no more posts til you end that parens.

[aikim]

If you don't expect anything, you are never disappointed. I met Clay during the NAT, I think....it was hotter than hell in Clay County, IA, I do remember that. It was still the "line up, do not touch, have one thing to sign, put your cameras here, smile"...type of meet and greet. I would give my last kidney (heh!) to have a meet and greet like they are doing them now.

As miserable as the heat was, I will never forget standing there thinking.."WTF, he's got his khaki shorts and his green/yellow striped polo on and it looks like he just got out of bed!" (takes a minute....) Anyway...I still have that picture up in my office...he was no more CLAY AIKEN!!!1!!1! than I was...he was Clayton Aiken. There is a huge difference. Huge.

20 min. later CLAY AIKEN!!!!1!!1! came on the stage, I looked at my friend and said "that is NOT the same man I just met".

I think the way the meet and greets are held, now, people are getting Clayton Aiken all the time....maybe Clayton isn't as "perfect" as CLAY AIKEN!!!1!!1!

I kinda like both of them...*shrug*

My very first time at the buses was during the NAT (Rockford, IL) and when Clay approached us (we were behind a fence) my first thought was "He's just a kid"...he was so young looking and had that boy next door thing going on...really brought it home to me that he just a normal person like the rest of us.

Looks like Santa is coming early to our house; I normally do my grocery shopping on Friday mornings since it is my day off but have to wrap tomorrow, so I told hubby that I probably wouldn't get to it until Saturday. He said it was probably better that I wait since he has something being delivered on Saturday. Now, I can be a little slow and at first I thought he just wanted me out of the house, but then it dawned on me that I am probably getting a new refrigerator. I have been bitching about ours for months, but we have so many other things to get done that I didn't push to get one right away. We were out a few months ago; just looking and pricing and mentioned one that I really liked...keeping fingers crossed. Probably getting a maxed out credit card too, but I will deal with that in January!

I'll let you know on Saturday!

Kim

[Claygasm]

I love coming here and reading the funny and the smutty. I even love the sniping and the bitching and the pissy because it never seems to last long.

I made the mistake of checking out another board and they are still bitching and moaning about the evil that is Clive Davis and RCA - and I still don't get why. All that over the fact that Clay just doesn't know if RCA will support a single to radio from an album that is yet to be completed with a sound no one knows yet?

Then there were the worriers. Something is wrong with Clay, they say. Something must be wrong in his personal life, or his professional life, or even physically. They know this not just because of the M&G stories, but because he just was not himself at the Red Bank concert and even though he seemed a bit better in Easton, he still just wasn't himself.

Amazing what people can see when a guy is standing there singing. I bet those wonderful smiling pictures were just of Clay smiling through his pain.

"Let Clay be Human" has long been a mantra of mine. I never thought he was perfect and I loved him for it. There is a part of me that always like it when Clay lost his temper or beat up a Coke machine or stuck his great big foot in his mouth. I loved it because it showed he was human and real. Personally, I prefer human and real - warts and all.

I have never understood why people get upset when Clay screws up - or make excuses for him to make it seem like he didn't screw up. "Let Clay be Human" would also mean to accept that he can screw up - and does from time to time.

Just like the rest of us peons.

So, I love coming here - despite our warts and human foibles. Most of the time we keep it real here and most of the time its fun.

And almost always its a welcome respite in this crazy fandom.

[muskifest]

Don't worry, muski - you are now our official bad example!

Yippeeeeeeeeeee! Now THAT'S something I KNOW I'd get a good performance appraisal for!

I have a date with Couchie tonight and you don't I'm soooooooo excited!

[Ansamcw]

I love coming here and reading the funny and the smutty. I even love the sniping and the bitching and the pissy because it never seems to last long.

I made the mistake of checking out another board and they are still bitching and moaning about the evil that is Clive Davis and RCA - and I still don't get why. All that over the fact that Clay just doesn't know if RCA will support a single to radio from an album that is yet to be completed with a sound no one knows yet?

Then there were the worriers. Something is wrong with Clay, they say. Something must be wrong in his personal life, or his professional life, or even physically. They know this not just because of the M&G stories, but because he just was not himself at the Red Bank concert and even though he seemed a bit better in Easton, he still just wasn't himself.

Amazing what people can see when a guy is standing there singing. I bet those wonderful smiling pictures were just of Clay smiling through his pain.

"Let Clay be Human" has long been a mantra of mine. I never thought he was perfect and I loved him for it. There is a part of me that always like it when Clay lost his temper or beat up a Coke machine or stuck his great big foot in his mouth. I loved it because it showed he was human and real. Personally, I prefer human and real - warts and all.

I have never understood why people get upset when Clay screws up - or make excuses for him to make it seem like he didn't screw up. "Let Clay be Human" would also mean to accept that he can screw up - and does from time to time.

Just like the rest of us peons.

So, I love coming here - despite our warts and human foibles. Most of the time we keep it real here and most of the time its fun.

And almost always its a welcome respite in this crazy fandom.

yup...I have to give y'all a big thank you for keeping it sane in here. No...we don;t always agree, but there is still this willingness to listen and accept.

Yeah CG...I also like the Let Clay be Human thing. I know he wasn't the most gracious in this m&g and I like that cos I think he should be upfront with his feelings with us. I also like the fact that he is setting boundaries with the fandom....and I think that is what is upsetting to some of the fans. They are mad that Clay is not giving us free reign with the clack and with info on him.

YSRN...I can understand what you are saying about bunny ear girl. I do thank you for pointing out my inappropriate labeling of her recap. I believe I would be upset to see people bashing her too and I reiterate that what is upsetting to me is the fans reaction to this not anything the people involved actually did.

Safe travels to all that went or going to the concert!!!

Ummm Kandre...its currently -14 C or 7 F where I am right now...BRRRRRR

[ldyjocelyn]

Spamalot TV ad welcoming Clay Aiken (via Clack Unlimited)

[jumpingjacks]

How cute is THAT commercial!!!! I can't wait until February!!!!!!

[bottlecap]

I've fallen sadly behind in my right-clicking and saving:

Practicing handling the horse for Spamalot? Whoa there, big fella!

Nice profile.

Some recent additions to my tongue collection

[jamar1700]

so hello sport fans... anybody else ready for the Mitchel Report?

Gadz...I figured I'd try to work my way through the discussion here before I went on over to mlb.com. But I did catch the tail end of Selig's blatheringexcusescomments on the news. So business as usual then Bud?

Case by case basis = stars get a pass....unkowns, washedups & unpopulars take the fall.

----

I don't want to meet Clay. I've come to terms with that fact. It used to confuse me...like I thought maybe I should. I choose not to explore it. It just is where I am in my fandom. I'm happy there.

---

Kim...are you sure you don't mean Indianapolis? Hotter than Hades?

Squuuueeeee...that was my first time too and I got *both* hands!

[Bookwhore]

I love coming here and reading the funny and the smutty. I even love the sniping and the bitching and the pissy because it never seems to last long.

"Let Clay be Human" has long been a mantra of mine. I never thought he was perfect and I loved him for it. There is a part of me that always like it when Clay lost his temper or beat up a Coke machine or stuck his great big foot in his mouth. I loved it because it showed he was human and real. Personally, I prefer human and real - warts and all.

I have never understood why people get upset when Clay screws up - or make excuses for him to make it seem like he didn't screw up. "Let Clay be Human" would also mean to accept that he can screw up - and does from time to time.

Just like the rest of us peons.

So, I love coming here - despite our warts and human foibles. Most of the time we keep it real here and most of the time its fun.

And almost always its a welcome respite in this crazy fandom.

I'll just CG's post and give my fingers a rest. I haven't dared to venture out to any other boards this week. What I love is that both sides are usually pretty equally represented here and everyone is allowed to have their say.

[YSRN]

But yeah, it's good to make sure that Clay is the bad guy in this meet and greet thing.

Yeah, cuz that's what I'm all about, after all. How about nobody is the "bad guy". There IS no bad guy. Is that within the realm of possibilities?

I feel sorry for people like me who unrealistically just want everybody to be nice and happy, happy, happy all the time. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Hey, those are your OTT expectations! LOL!!

Seriously... Thank you jmh123 for taking the time to express yourself and share your experience. There's a lesson in there, no? I love you. You know that. I consider us lifelong friends. I think you know that too. Your experience is exactly my point, of course. You were part of something everyone would have thought to be wonderful. I was there with you, remember? It was a trippy time. You learned something about yourself and your fandom from it. And you came out the other side. I just want the same for another young lady (and everyone else for that matter) who might be feeling the same thing. Maybe it was of her own doing; maybe she built it up and was overzealous and it's all her "fault". So? She's human. As you pointed out...nobody acts perfectly. Not you, not me, not her, not Clay. You're here in part because the friends you shared with didn't judge you. They gave you the space to work it out. I just think it's fair to give all fans the chance to look back like you did and understand it better. Hey, just because I know there's no white picket fence and 2.5 kids in life does not mean everyone else does, nor do I need to the be the one to tell them it doesn't exist or pound through their head how stupid they are for not knowing it now. They get to find out on their own; even if it means a little heartbreak along the way. Even if it means that their bubble is burst by learning that Clay Aiken!!!11! is a human being. JumpingJacks made a good point... they met Clay, the person. He's so different, and yet not different at all, than Clay Aiken. But you gotta learn that sometimes.

By the way, I respect that you think she made a mistake taking her post to CV, but unless you ask her, you don't know WHY she felt it necessary. And maybe you'd change your mind. If you saw what was edited out, you might too. Maybe not. But the whole story is always good to have. And you're right, she also received support. She did.

Hey, I am nice and happy, happy, happy all the time... mostly. You know that too. But I get my hackles up when I see unfairness towards someone or a whole group in our community. It's my bugaboo. It's how I feel. I'm Miss America on that one. LOL! I do get the predisposition to want to hear the happy... but surely there's room for people we've been posting with for 4+ years to be able to come to us when they have disappointment, isn't there? Who else could she tell? One day out of 1200 or so (no, I can't count). Seems reasonable.

{{lilyshine}} just cuz.

Oh, I gotta go... I think Clay's singing. Heh.

:F_05BL17blowkiss: