Couch Tomato

#42: We're still having fun, and you're still the one!

FCA Thread Title  

61 members have voted

  1. 1. What should be the next thread title for FCA?

    • Endlessly entertaining, never a dull moment!!
      9
    • Clay you seriously need to go back into the closet....to find another outfit!
      5
    • I luv him, he is the anti-cool. He is his own cool that far exceeds cool.
      2
    • The balls may be lavander, but they're still titanium.
      3
    • He's Clay. He's gay. And whatever. When's the next tour?
      14
    • He's made of awesome!
      9
    • Even more beautiful now, inside and out!
      16
    • God, what a MAN!
      2
    • That is a MAN.
      1


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I do love those skinny freckled white boys.

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WooHoo page one

I just can't hear or even read lines from this song without thinking of when he added it to the set list of the NAT, and didn't sing the line, " you're the one I want to talk to in bed". Remember the pages and pages of posts because fans who were upset because they though he'd left it out intentionally? Ah, those were the days!!!

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I just can't hear or even read lines from this song without thinking of when he added it to the set list of the NAT, and didn't sing the line, " you're the one I want to talk to in bed". Remember the pages and pages of posts because fans who were upset because they though he'd left it out intentionally? Ah, those were the days!!!

Heh heh! Those were the days, my friend. The debates over a few words lost! Makes me misty thinking about all those concert memories. How could we ever give those up, just because he happens to be gay?

More lyrics, just because they seem so appropriate:

You're still the one who can scratch my itch

Still the one and I wouldn't switch

We're still having fun, and you're still the one

You are still the one that makes me shout

Still the one that I dream about

We're still having fun, and you're still the one...

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What, no pictures yet to decorate our new thread?? Hmpphhh.

He's a man of many looks, all of them devilishly handsome!

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Clay20Face20-20lookin20at20mom.jpg

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20080110-002-AP3.jpg

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"You're Still the One" is still my favourite early Clay song.

muskifest

Uh....anybody see/hear Jessica Simpson on DWTS? unsure.gif

Is EVERYBODY trying to become a country singer?

emphasis on the word "trying".... rolleyes.gif

TV Week for next week in its description of Jessica Simpson's One on One appearance on CMT:

The dirty little secret of the music industry is that the only market segment that still buys CDs en masse are country music fans which explains why everybody from Bon Jovi to former pop-tart Jessica Simpson is jumping on the Nashville bandwagon.

I was so optimistic on the afternoon of that first day a week ago when there were so very few negative posts. It has become so disheartening, granted there are some fans who are managing to work through their shock, sadness, anger and then there are those who are so self righteous I doubt they will ever be able to come to terms with what they see as the horror of Clay's sexual orientation. Why can't they just leave? I also feel sad for them.

After today I have made a pledge to myself not to read at OFC until I see those magic words "He blogged".

I have managed to restrain myself from posting this :blinkies_114: there. I am sorely tempted but, being one of the zombie horde, I am following my master's wishes and not interfering.

Regarding the infamous front row unsmiling three, has anyone actually talked with them and asked why they keep going when they obviously are not enjoying themselves. If so, what did they say? "F... off? MYOB?"

ETA On further reading about said gang of 3, I see that no one wants to be seen talking with them for fear that other fans would jump to the wrong conclusion. mmm. Interesting.

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Thanks for all the super-hot pictures!!! :thankyou:

Did anyone else find it strange to see so many new members come in between 1 am and 5 am today?

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Warning: I respond to some posts that are more than 24 hours old and I don't care. I also may piss several people off with this and I also don't care - except I really like Play and don't want to piss her off, even though I might, below.

I have to admit being pissed at someone, not sure who , who claimed that Clay was giving us hints all along like having gay men on his tour. Uh, I thought they were on the tour because they were talented - stupid me.I can't imagine that Clay would ever not want to put on the best show ever.instead of accomodate friends. Nuts. Obviouusly that is not why I got the hints.

Actually, every time I thought something was odd, like Dahstrom having the key to the house, someone would convince me I was wrong, so there you go. As bad as my perception was, I had help, heh.

My mind is boggled. Who has keys to your house says NOTHING about your sexuality. My next door neighbor is a 70 year old African American woman and she has a key to my house – what does that tell you? Nothing? Exactly. He had gay men on his tour? He had STRAIGHT people too!!! Gay people are not generally so bigoted, at least not more than anyone else, that they only hire other gay people – they DO hire the best people for the job, from what I've seen. Jesus, I don’t know where you’re reading this stuff, but it’s frankly bigoted and outrageous. Dahlstrom having a key is weird?? So, because John is gay Clay must be too – apparently because gay men are ONLY friends with other gay men or only employ gay men? How insulting. John was an employee, why wouldn’t he have a key? How do you explain Kristy living there? Or Nick? Clay is very giving and loving with his FRIENDS. So, can Jimmy Kimmel no longer be Clay’s friend now that Clay is out of the closet?? Can my brother have no male friends who are straight?? Do you see where I’m having trouble here?

You may feel beat up over this subject and I’m very sorry if you’re struggling, but God, I’m appalled. Nothing personal, Play, and I don’t want to hurt your feelings, but this is just way out there. My gay brother gave keys to his house to his straight neighbors – does that mean he’s really straight?? He despises the gay male couple that live up the block, does that mean he’s really straight?? Um, no. They are *people* who he doesn’t like for reasons that he’s explained to me. Being gay is not a club where everyone loves each other any more than all straight people love each other. I’m going to a lesbian fundraiser for Obama next weekend – does that mean I’m secretly gay?

Quick explaination: , I was not posting here because I wanted to not say somethings - things I am still not going to discuss. I was recently told I should defend myself and not depend on other people, so I had to search to see what the heck it was -

So I am a bigot for the key thing? - did you really read the entire post? I was mocking the people with the tour comment, I thought that was obvious. Guess it was not so obvious, but Jesus, really - I can't be that bad a communicator! I am floored. Did everyone read it that way? Becuase if they did, I must stop posting anywhere immediately. Why do you think I said I was pissed at the person posting that comment?

Of course, it was not the key thing alone there was a whole bunch more to the John with a key coming over to clean Clay's bedroom, etc. I am sorry, other people have keys to my house but they don't come over and clean my bedroom. There was even more to that story, but I don't remember it in detail, just the impression it left on me, don't remember which Clack piece it is in, don't have the years it would take to find it and I don't like to discuss what I don't remember clearly when I am apparently so offensive because - god forbid - the least bit of a shadow of a doubt cannot exist that what was posted was not the whole story. You do realize I am not the best communicator in the world. Tactless, often, rude, sure, but deliberately intollerant? - Stereotyping - well, there is alot of that going around on a lot of different topics.

I hate the OFC, I see so much jumping on people in both directions without giving anyone an ounce of doubt - no - it is instant reaction and retaliation. I think that is not civilized, but I find when I go there it is hard not to do that and carry it to other places and it plays with your mind. Most of what I do at the OFC is now in PM, you would be shocked at the number of people who have small issues and want to talk but don't want to be attacked and trashed and held in contempt and get the bitchy PMs I get from other people. And then there are the "helpful" people who come in the thread that was separated out and supposed to be only for people with issues and those with support and then proceed to rip everyone there a new one. I try and get those removed as soon as possible, but apparently the mods don't want to delete the lesser offensive ones because then people start complaining about being deleted. Yes, there are OTT in that thread, but guess what, there are OTT in the other threads and here too and on every board in the fandom. But there are some good people with real issues they are trying to work out (hidden between the the OTT), and everytime someone resolves their issues, there is a resounding cheer for them. It is sad that there are so many people voyuering there and only taking back the crazy and pretending the normal does not exist. I know people from a lot of different boards and a few of them are there, is it wrong to be there for them? Of course, there is someone who comes in and prays for the people there everyday, a nice person, but not my kind of thing. What is keeping me sad now is the fact that just about the only person who understands and has compassion is Clay, there is far too much jumping to conclusions and smacking back and forth, drives me nuts and makes me want to run screaming to the amazing race boards where people are less "possessive" of being right. The only right is inside each person and they have to determine what it is, not have it forced upon them or be judged for their personal opinions. I have never seen any group of people try to drive so many other people away - how many fans will Clay have left after the next purge and the one afte that? There will always be another reasonto want to get rid of other fans. When he is left with the 1 perfect fan will it be anyone you know? OTT by CDs, OTT go to concerts, I don't have to like every fan in the fandom. I have said it would be better without a or b, but after the last sales figures, I have been working on being more tolerant.

Oh well, I have to get up in an 1/2 hour might as well go to bed. But I repaired my washing machine and have clean clothes at least. I hope to be finished with the house this week, although the painter is trying to get me to let him painting two more rooms- but he has a bad back and I have to move everything. I am so tired. This weekend, it is remodeling at the beach! I am so broke. Gues I might as well get back to moving things backto the kitchen, almost done with that.

Have fun you lazy people with jobs.

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I'm really appreciating your perspective, luckiest. I think there can be layers of being "out". Some people make being gay a big part of their identity, others are closeted, and a whole lot of folks are just gay, or bi, I think, without making it into a big deal, because it's just a part of who they are, not their whole identity. I think Clay was/is that kind of gay guy--someone for whom it wasn't central to his identity, but eventually the need to have love and family, plus being a public figure, have pushed him into this "coming out." I don't think he'll now become much different than he was, except for being more free, whatever that brings.

Thanks for saying this, and I agree with you. My daughter and I couldn't be more different in the way we self-identify as gay, and in the way we choose to live it, but we're both still gay. Go figure! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

FromClaygary, our own Canada's Wonderland has Gay Day too. Think of it as more of a celebration of being gay, rather than a day where gay people are allowed to attend. Although if it were, I would understand your moral outrage completely! :thbighug-1:

He did the stage door and took pics with a few people.

YAY! That makes me happy. :wub: I wanna be there so bad!

{{{{{{{{playbiller}}}}}}}}

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From CH:

Old MTV Clack

Online_Media/MTV_Online/080923_old_2006_interview/ folder:

CLACKUNLIMITED LINK FOR KEYLESS (use ONLY if you do not have a key):

MTV 2006

This has been termed "cringe inducing" but I don't find it so, at all. I am so glad to have the chance to watch it, finally.

I don't remember seeing this posted here but ignore if it has been. It is an mp3 of all the bits of Clay singing Baby of Mine linked together by Gerwhisp at the CB.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/wzhy6s

Wheeeeeeeeeeee! I love this.

From CB:

from betherick85

Attention, ATTENTION!!!

I have a short, but sweet, Intermission report from NIKKI (Claysbabygurl316)!!!

Tonight,

-Clay kept poking Tom during the "Not Yet Dead" scene!

-LOTS of tongue action (during the slo-mo horse, I assume! )

-Clay started cracking up when Sir Bedivere almost lost his moustache! LOL

-And, lastly, during the "Runaway" scene, Clay yelled, "Wait for me!"

I hope to hear more after the show from Nikki!!!

Apparently Clay did the stage door tonight and took pictures with some people.

ETA

from Claysbabygurl

The Knights who said Ni was talking about How far Russia is from their house(Sara Palin quote) and then they said let's see how much retirement money i have left

Clay wanted to crack up with that joke. Clay kept looking at me and my friend in front row since people were wooing for him and i zoned out and so did my friend and he had that huh look on his face

Not much tongue action for YWSSOB.

EATA

From CB:

from Jax

Hey everyone! Jess McVargas and i went to the show tonight...we're stuck in the car ride home in traffic. Great show tonight...LOTS of energy. A lot of people have told me that there's a new kind of energy in the theater since last week. THAT IS REALLY SO TRUE. Clay is just o so happy and you can clearly see that at the stage door as well. With that being said, tonight may have been my favorite stage door yet. Clay was his usual sarcastic self but was honestly so sweet at the same time. Jess and i got pics that I'll be putting up ASAP! EEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the picture that made the purchase price of my camera all worth it:

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee333/c...t/faceofomc.jpg

Two pictures from the Sunday matinee stagedoor

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee333/c...092808Spam2.jpg

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee333/c...092808Spam1.jpg

I was so happy to go see Clay in Spamalot Tuesday night!

It was wonderful to see him - and the show was terrific! During the first half, Belvedere's moustache came halfway off and was dangling. He was trying his best to hold it up and Clay was trying very hard not to laugh!

The Knights of Ni said "I can see Russia from my house" which was a hoot!

A dear friend was the peasant tonight, and she was adorable! It was her birthday, so a wonderful surprise and terrific birthday present!

Clay had his ears sticking out during the guard scene which was ever so cute! It looked sort of like this:

Clay came out the stage door. He seemed ever so happy and it was just a wonderful evening!!

I love reading Spamalot reports. I love that Clay is just going about his business, and having fun on stage. I hope that he doesn't spend much time reading the OFC, but I am sure that even the nastiest religious diatribe over there is nothing he hasn't heard before. He has thick skin.

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I hate the OFC, I see so much jumping on people in both directions without giving anyone an ounce of doubt - no - it is instant reaction and retaliation. I think that is not civilized, but I find when I go there it is hard not to do that and carry it to other places and it plays with your mind. Most of what I do at the OFC is now in PM, you would be shocked at the number of people who have small issues and want to talk but don't want to be attacked and trashed and held in contempt and get the bitchy PMs I get from other people. And then there are the "helpful" people who come in the thread that was separated out and supposed to be only for people with issues and those with support and then poroceed to rip everyone there a new one. I try and get those removed as soon as possible, but apparently the mods don't wast to delete the lesser offensive ones. Yes, there are crazies in that thread, but guess what, there are crazies in the other threads and here too and on every board in the fandom. But there are some good people with real issues they are trying to work out (hidden between the crazies, and everytime someone resolves their issues, there is a resounding cheer for them. It is sad that there are so many people voyuering there and only taking back the crazy and pretending the normal does not exist. I know people from a lot of different boards and a few of them are there,is it wrong to be there for them? Of course, there is someone who comes in and prays for the people there everyday, a nice person, but not my kind of thing. What is keeping me sad now is the fact that just about the only person who understands and has compassion is Clay, there is far too much jumping to conclusions and smacking back and forth, drives me nuts and makes me want to run screaming to the amazing race boards where people are less "possessive" of being right. The only right is inside each person and they have to determine what it is, not have it forced upon them or be judged for their personal opinions.

Wow,. I am still floored. Oh well, I have to get up in an 1/2 hour might as well go to bed. But I repaired my washing machine and have clean clothes at least.

Play, I'm glad you came back to post.

Yes, there is a lot of instant reaction and retaliation at OFC. I haven't posted over there because my natural tendency is to go defend what I believe is right especially when Clay's in the picture. No, I have that backwards. When someone says something nasty about him it's not easy to react calmly. And I don't want to post from the "of course we're superior" viewpoint we have here because I can see how the same "I'm sticking to my side and defending it to the death" kills dialogue. I know that today we all have the benefit of decades of progress. It's now accepted as the way "smart" people think so it's not easy to imagine what it was like years and years ago when you were the only one in a sea of people who thought differently.

In a way, my little "science experiment / sociological clinic" a couple of months ago helped me to understand -- remember when I did some things that made people go *shudder! shudder! shudder!* People close to me were PM'ing each other, "WTF is Scarlett thinking?!!" Some directly called me to ask, "What are you up to?!!!" It's a feeling that's universal -- someone you like or love is doing something that seems so outrageous to you. How do you react? How sure are you that you would defend this if you were literally the only person in the whole world who believed in it? Those exact feelings are what those "un-enlighened" people are feeling too -- someone in their community, someone they love and trust is doing something completely against their way of life.

I'm glad for only a few things -- that people who do feel ready to post, post with either understanding or if that's too difficult, with humor instead of anger. Being too extreme in the support of a great idea just hinders its general acceptance. Different people react in different ways and banning free speech is not the answer. I still think Clay is smart to do this because those people posting contrary opinions won't disappear off the earth in 2 weeks. All his life he won't know if he'll encounter someone like that whenever he turns a corner. We can't stand it for even just a few days and we'd like shut them out, or pretend to shut them out because we really can't. People will continue to try to post in insiduous ways even if the rules are changed. I'd like to think of that thread as a reminder that it's not over and we need to continually stand up for what we believe in every single day and that hatred of any kind even if directed towards hatred, is simply that.

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I am in a much better place this morning. I may rant and rave over here to get it out of my system but I came to the conclusion last night that in the end they will be judged by someone. Hee didn't Clay say it's not my place to tell them they are wrong. God he is a much better man that I am....oh wait......

Thanks FCA. I love you guys!

Scarlett :F_05BL17blowkiss:

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Thanks for all the super-hot pictures!!! :thankyou:

Did anyone else find it strange to see so many new members come in between 1 am and 5 am today?

Those are bots....somehow they found a way around the security measures except the need to put a board name and home board...

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Speaking only for myself, and at the risk of repeating myself - I don't have any problem with the people who have issues with Clay's news. The people in that thread who are genuinely looking for a way to come to terms are fine with me, even if they never reach that place. But the so-called dialogue in that thread was over a long time ago - nobody is gaining anything new any more. I can't imagine what else could be said to 'help' people that hasn't been said a thousand times. If someone is really looking for help - it's there. Let's not kid ourselves though - it stopped being about that days ago.

I'm glad there are people in the world who are big enough to try and understand people like those who continue to proclaim Clay's damnation. I'm not one of them.

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(((play)))

Yes this has been difficult for all. I know you are struggling and believe me...there are a lot of your friends that care about that. I know that a lot of members here are coming in and ranting about the OFC thread. Some are being defiant and saying who needs these fans...and some are trying to move on and use humor and fun. BUT it has been tough to watch these reactions because even for those that didn't have a problem with what Clay revealed now has to work through what this revealed about the fandom. Has to try and understand not just Clay but those that are having a problem with it. For the most part I think most of the rantings and ravings are now about the most OTT people out there.

I am glad Clay had that thread open. What that open policy did was let people put their guard down and people are posting from the heart. Right now...Clay has a choice of reading it or not so I am not worried about him. I'm sure he expected the hate...that is precisely why it took him so long to come out. The people that are being the most ugly and intolerant are just hurting themselves at this point. They have shown an ugly side of their personality and I doubt if their fandom can ever be repaired. They probably will go once the thread is closed and for them I will not be sorry.

At this point I think what made this revelation so difficult for some is that we have been made to be defensive about his sexuality for so long. That is not Clay's fault nor is it ours...its the fault of the asshats that think its ok to make fun of an effeminate man...its the fault of those asshats that felt it was their duty to drag Clay out of the closet before he was ready...it was the fault of all those people that suggest we are crazy to go nuts about a gay man... That is what made a lot of fans hold on to every scrap of evidence that he is straight. Lots of fans held on to this trust like a talisman against all the proof or clues of his sexuality. When they were proven to be wrong against all these asshats...it shook them to the core...it tested their perception of their judgement. I believe for these fans...we need to be patient and understanding. I hope they will be able to resolve this conflict and continue to enjoy Clay...

For those that prove themselves to be homophobic...I hope they eventually leave...

so another busy day ahead... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

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I'm really appreciating your perspective, luckiest. I think there can be layers of being "out". Some people make being gay a big part of their identity, others are closeted, and a whole lot of folks are just gay, or bi, I think, without making it into a big deal, because it's just a part of who they are, not their whole identity. I think Clay was/is that kind of gay guy--someone for whom it wasn't central to his identity, but eventually the need to have love and family, plus being a public figure, have pushed him into this "coming out." I don't think he'll now become much different than he was, except for being more free, whatever that brings.

Thanks for saying this, and I agree with you. My daughter and I couldn't be more different in the way we self-identify as gay, and in the way we choose to live it, but we're both still gay. Go figure! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

FromClaygary, our own Canada's Wonderland has Gay Day too. Think of it as more of a celebration of being gay, rather than a day where gay people are allowed to attend. Although if it were, I would understand your moral outrage completely! :thbighug-1:

He did the stage door and took pics with a few people.

YAY! That makes me happy. :wub: I wanna be there so bad!

{{{{{{{{playbiller}}}}}}}}

3 months and we'll be in NYC for our first show at spamalot, I sure hope to see him close up at the stagedoor this time, but even though I didn't get to in march , I did meet some terrific ladies that brought so much to my life and others in London.

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Good Morning Everyone,

17 Days until The BAF Gala! :yahoo:

23 Days until Clay is Roasting Matt Lauer!

:yahoo:

60 Days until Clay's Golden Birthday!

:yahoo:

95 Days until The Closing Night of Spamalot!

:cry4:

Everyone have a great day!

Kim

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For some reason, I just rewatched the first GMA interview again...and IMO, there's a few key things that I think we all (yes, royal) probably need to remember, which Clay said.

1) "Things don't change overnight." Clay's ending statement in that interview, and one that I think is very important to remember. It's sad, but it's true -- massive changes sometimes take a good amount of time.

2) This one I have to paraphrase a bit, but he also said something similar in the People interview. Basically, he's not going to tell someone that they are wrong just for what they believe, just because he doesn't believe it, and he wants the same in return if possible. Granted, that "if possible" is the hardest part. But, IMO, if the fighting keeps going over there at the OFC, it's that infamous gerbil wheel, and also IMO, someone has to say "stop, I'm getting off."

wanda, I appreciate your passion, and for the most part agree with almost everything you have said over there. (I LOL'd at your "God is gay" thing, even as a Christian. Means I'm going to hell too. *g*) Having said that, I think I'm realizing that there are "gnats" over there as well -- we all have them. The only way they will "die" is if they are ignored. I personally think that the people who really do need some support in dealing with their feelings will find a way to do it without going to the OFC, and especially that thread. They'll find other boards, they'll email friends. So, in summary -- those that need it will find their way. Those that don't, but just like hearing their own voice in that thread -- will be best served by ignoring them.

wanda, you said something about Christians believing we're all sinners. As a Christian, I'll tell you that this is true. BUT -- each version of Christianity is different. I'm a Lutheran, and I believe that as long as I try my best (which I frankly do don't very often, it's hard ya'll) but also realize that I will be saved by believing, I can't judge others. I simply can't. That's my interpretation...and I also believe that God gave us BRAINS for a reason.

As far as Clay keeping that thread open -- you know what I'm going to say, as a librarian, right? Clay made the choice, I respect his right for that, and I'm sure he will have learned something in the process.

{{{{{play}}}}}

My first day at work where I'm basically "in charge." I think I'll go throw up now.

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Just to let you guys no I will no longer be saying anything about the other place. Got the hint.

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Uh-oh....is Kathy taking crap? How truly sad!

Oh, you have no idea. Aspie spilled her heart out and talked about how she was so afraid of going to hell for her sins and thought her brother and mother died because of her sins but that she found some comfort in the fact that God loved David, even though he sinned--and this raging evil bitch posted that David's son died because of David's sins so there are consequences for sinning.

CAN YOU IMAGINE???? I'd have reached right through the computer and choked that bitch if I could have.

My God, and she said this in the name of the Lord.

WTH happened to "be nice to one another"? Are the mods not taking care of that? Gawd, I feel bad for her. :(

Just to clarify. Gay people are always allowed into the park. "Gay Day" is an event organized by a gay organization in which 40,000-50,000 gay people meet at the theme park, wearing red Gay Day t-shirts. It is NOT a "point and sneer" event. However, the fact that it happens in the park is enough to cause some intolerant conservatives to boycott Disney.

As I said, Disney also provides benefits to the domestic partners of gay employees. As far as I know, that does not happen at every company and it's certainly not required by law. I'm not saying Disney is the champion of gay rights. However, I don't think they particularly anti-gay, either.

ETA: Or what Claygasm said. Thanks!

Thanks! That makes more sense! Whew!!

What, no pictures yet to decorate our new thread?? Hmpphhh.

He's a man of many looks, all of them devilishly handsome!

Gibby, there's only one missing! The snowflake hair!! (Merrieeee you know i'm kidding, right?)

FromClaygary, our own Canada's Wonderland has Gay Day too. Think of it as more of a celebration of being gay, rather than a day where gay people are allowed to attend. Although if it were, I would understand your moral outrage completely! :thbighug-1:

Ah, OK, that was the perfect word....celebration....now I'm there. I think it was the word "allowed" that put my blood pressure up 150 points....sorry, Jenna! :lmaosmiley-1:

At this point I think what made this revelation so difficult for some is that we have been made to be defensive about his sexuality for so long. That is not Clay's fault nor is it ours...its the fault of the asshats that think its ok to make fun of an effeminate man...its the fault of those asshats that felt it was their duty to drag Clay out of the closet before he was ready...it was the fault of all those people that suggest we are crazy to go nuts about a gay man... That is what made a lot of fans hold on to every scrap of evidence that he is straight. Lots of fans held on to this trust like a talisman against all the proof or clues of his sexuality. When they were proven to be wrong against all these asshats...it shook them to the core...it tested their perception of their judgement. I believe for these fans...we need to be patient and understanding. I hope they will be able to resolve this conflict and continue to enjoy Clay...

For those that prove themselves to be homophobic...I hope they eventually leave...

Perfect! Absolutely perfect. And for me, you hit the nail right on the head about what bothered me for a bit (not too long actually). One of my huge failings....I hate like hell to let an asshole win.

But I love Clay with all my might, and I ain't going anywhere. :wub:

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Look, I really have to run because the painter is here, but I see by PM I need to clarify -

I was ranting about the atmosphere of the OFC. I do not blame the mods, it started with posters believing they can fix everything (years ago) and the next thing you know there is out and out constant war because everyone wants to be incharge. It has to stop some time or I don't know what, and so does the running off of the people we don't like. I do fight the atmosphere there, but sometimes the bitch does come out and, Cindilu some very reasonable people have just got up their nerve to post as a few of the more OTT leave. It is very hard for people under the watchful eyes of the critics, probably taking names, hence the stuff you don't see, now if we could only have more than 100 PMs.

I got to run - and since noe one can understand my psots - give me some slack here.

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I've been sitting here watching Unconditional Love. Kind of an offbeat, strange movie, but I loved it. Thanks to whoever recommended it!

That was me! Yay! Now there are TWO people who have seen it!

Seriously, the first time I saw that movie, on TV, I kept watching it because I lurve Kathy Bates.

I don't love her in the I'd-seriously-explore-my-sexuality-assumptions-about-myself- if-offered-an-opportunity way that I lurve Emma Thompson, but I do love Kathy. IMO she should have gotten the Oscar for that Jack Nicholson movie she was in where she was naked in the hot tub with him. I wish I had that self-assurance. Even if it was only for a movie.

Anyway, the movie's plot is VERY interesting and funny and sad, but now I am thinking - perhaps not so much outlandish, and I recommend it not as a ponderous educational thingy, but as a real hoot.

As has been noted, Gay day is not organised by Disney at all - Disney just says ok fine, and they refused to bow under to the many groups who demanded that they ban it. Some Southern Baptist factions even published letters of intent to boycott all things Disney - and Disney shrugged, and said ok fine, just GO AWAY. And take your pickets and signs outside the gates with you.

That perhaps can be construed as "allowing" - when threatened with loss of business, Disney took the right stance, IMO.

merrieeee - I don't think any remarks were aimed at you - I do think that posting over there refuting people will not help anything, will not change anything, will just keep the pot boiling. Sure it is fun to take potshots, but IMO pointless. I think that is what Clay meant when he said sometimes a mind is so open it circles around and becomes closed. That is what is happening there, it seems.

And people are getting the attention they evidently crave, or else they would shut up and go away. They are being rewarded for bad behavior, really, little kids do that all the time.

And I think some fans stay because they cannot stand it that they can't make everybody else agree with them, and also because they know if they leave, the world will keep on spinning like a ball - much as it did when fans left because of Constantine, Cook, or just plain ennui or whatever.

I won't miss any of those fans, because people with those beliefs would not fit into my own circle of friends anyway.

Plus there is, I guess, the thrill of being able to express really nasty shit about someone and not have any consequences or repercussions. Cheap and easy, like, say, Michael Musto. Who is hoping all Clay's fans have left him. Sorry, Musto. Most of us are not fixated on that one aspect of Clay that you seem weirdly fixated on. Get a life.

Damn! I am starting to believe that if the Olympics were still on, commentators and reporters would be asking that swimming champion how he feels about Clay coming out - before asking about how it feels to win all those gold medals.

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