#42: We're still having fun, and you're still the one!

[JennaZ]

So true, Muski. There are real problems in the world today, things that affect us each in a very direct and personal way. It always amazes me how some can let "Clay issues" become so important to them. I'm not trying to be insensitive to those who are hurting. Sometimes, it's hard to control how one will react to things. However, I do think it's important to have perspective. Much of the drama in the fandom concerns things which, in the overall scheme of things, to me, don't really seem worth all the emotion. Personally, if I'm going to be depressed about something, it's going to be over things like the current economic crisis and not about whether Clay showed sufficient emotion in an interview.

((Muski)) Times are tough, and I can't blame a good girl like your daughter from being worried. I actually think it's a sign that you're doing something right. If she took a four-year college as an entitlement, that would be a different story. There are a lot of options to explore. Different schools offer different financial packages. You'll make it work.

[Thankful4Clay]

I have one in college and will have two in college next year. We are lucky because my husband's mom is helping with tuition. But, we also started saving for the kids the day they were born. Money from their Baptism went into their college fund and at least half of the money they received as gifts went into their college fund.

When I had my good paying job at Target Corp, we put a few thousand each year into their funds. So, for my son, we had over $30,000 saved. He is working while going to school and he is paying for his own books. He's also looking at moving off campus next year to lower costs.

It can be done.

[HippoGA]

College tuition talk! Makes me shiver! I don't have much of a 401K to lose these uneasy days but my two sons graduated debt free from college. Every family is different but I really wanted to give them that undergraduate education if possible. Good luck to everyone making plans and balancing finances!

Visited the OFC today. Trying to drop in every now and then and post something funny or supportive. I wish the OFC had started right after AI2. I just don't feel at "home" there like I did instantly here.

Loved the techno dance video of Clay noises!

Loved the enormous P.... song, too, and the socks and sandals discussion. This picture seems appropriate for both!

Back for more tomorrow!

[Couch Tomato]

College tuition for kids. Whew. Dodged that bullet. I'm still paying my own studen loans. Muski, my only advice as an ex financial aid conselor in a former life - research research research. Do not depend on school counselors to tell you everything and do not miss any deadlines. Choosing the right school is also important.

Honeycrisps have arrived!! yay.

[merrieeee]

You know how something really bugs you because you have the answer right there just out of reach? Well I knew I had heard the name India Hicks before(she's the host of a decorating show on Bravo) and it was driving me crazy and all of a sudden....bingo...she was one of Princess Diana's bridesmaids!!

I am so glad things have slowed down around the fandom. I can only take so much angst!

I was watching that video by mariedrummond. It was really good and then I started watching more and more and more! Well now I have nothing done tonight but I did see some clips I had not seen before so that was fun.

College Tuition..We gave my daughter a choice a very expensive private college with no extras at all school and nothing else or State University with all the extras. (Sorority, single room, spring break etc.) She chose all the extras as well as school. Thank goodness the Out-of-State one was (in 1992) $96000 for four years!!!! We three would still be paying for it*g*

When she went to Grad school she qualified for loans and grants etc and if she teaches one more year in her low-income district her loans will be forgiven.

[Scarlett]

College... all I can add is that sometimes the more "expensive" schools turn out to be cheaper because they have more grants and stuff available. Am extremely grateful that DS graduated last year & now has a job while DD is a senior in the school of her dreams -- a block away from Mr. Roger's neighborhood.

*yawns* I still went to work at 7 today and had an emergency that kept me there until 5pm...

[gbmifan]

College funding, boy I remember worrying when all three of my boys went. My first went to a private college, small amount of scholarships, and we told him we would pay half of everyting. He quit in his senior year, but thank goodness did not owe anything. He has been successful running his own business which he actually started in High School. He thought college was interferring. My middle child opted for a state university, made it through in four years, and did not owe anything. We paid half and he worked the whole time and took classes a lot a community college during the spring and summer to cut the cost down. My youngest did graduate in four years, went to a private college, we paid half but he ended up with $25,000 in student loans. It is scarey because even though we started saving when they were born the cost has gone up so much money does not go far.

[Gibby]

It is scarey because even though we started saving when they were born the cost has gone up so much money does not go far.

Yup, this is where we are. We have money saved, but costs have gone up A LOT. And we will have another daughter in college a few years after our older daughter starts college, so we have to be careful with the money we have earmarked for college.

Right now our older daughter is making DVDs of her singing to apply for music scholarships. I went to college on a piano scholarship, and I'm hoping that she may be able to at least defray some of the cost of college with a music scholarship, too. Whew, it's a lot of work to make those DVDs! They have to be nearly perfect. She is working with her voice teacher, who has good sound/video equipment for recording.

[goldarngirl]

I posted this at CV too.

HELP

Some time ago (while we were still working on the Best of Merrillville that were just posted yesterday or the day before) I mentioned that our next project would be Pala. SO I would make a plea for anyone that might have video from that venue and didn't post it, if they would do so now, it would be totally appreciated. There are certainly varying degrees of expertise in this fandom on the many things that we do. BUT you may have that one or two seconds that could be very important to one of the montages in the Best of Series (so I would so appreciate it if you would consider having your clips vaulted).

Having said that, I posted a bit ago too, that it takes me hours to save all the pictures from each venue to be able to do the finished picture montage (not counting the time it takes to go through each picture and choose them). I mentioned that if our photographers were willing to zip their picture folder from a venue (Pala in this case) and upload (DM already agreed that we could vault for a short bit) I would be very grateful, as would some others that love to have all these fantastic pictures that everyone takes.

I would like to ask if, our illustrious photogs were willing, they would upload a zipped folder of their pictures. I would really appreciate your help with this.

Thank you in advance.

Yep luckiest1 I'm getting lazy in my old age.

[Gibby]

goldarngirl, I'm so glad you're doing Pala!!! I'm really looking forward to your montages, cuz that was such a funnnnnny show. Smoochies for all of the work you and lucky do to bring us such great entertainment!

:F_05BL17blowkiss: :F_05BL17blowkiss: :F_05BL17blowkiss: :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[muskifest]

sort of don't understand the conversation between you and the daughter.

That makes sense, KAndre since what I posted was just a piece of ongoing conversations we've had since she even thought about college. However, I surely didn't mean to imply that hubby and I are planning to hand her four years of college. She's fully expecting to work throughout (wants to, in fact) and as I said, she'll be researching and applying to every possible scholarship and grant program we can find. Also, many colleges 'promise' that if an applicant is qualified, they are guaranteed admission via a combination of grants, scholarships, work-study, financial aid, etc.

I always thought of college as MY responsibility. I earned my degree. With work and scholarships and grants. And appreciated the self sufficiency. My mother didn't pay a dime for any of her daughters' higher education - but we were all expected to go. And did. I expected to help my child with the college thing (except he decided on the Navy thing and plans on letting them pay for it) but did expect him to be primarily responsible for it. <snip>I guess one of my bugaboos is the insulation of children from financial realities, and then parents are shocked that the children never learn to deal. And it's sort of like a bad marriage - you think you're hiding the badness from the children - but they know about it anyway, they just don't have all the facts which may be more worrying. But then again, I'm not really big on "owing" children certain things. Alex (to me) is right to be worried but maybe she wants an opportunity to be part of the solution.

You know, I want to believe that you didn't mean for your words to sound like they did to me. Maybe I'm just ultrasensitive because of the series of shitty things my family has been dealing with recently, but I gotta say, KAndre, that as I read these words I felt a bit chastised--as if you were letting me know that YOU weren't spoiled and YOUR son wasn't spoiled, etc.

I don't need to tell my daughter what our gross income is for her to know whether or not we are rich or poor (we're neither) and I don't need to worry that my daughter values what she has or what a privilege it will be when she goes to school. But I also don't want or need to close doors to her before she can even decide if she wants to open them. Should I have told my mother, "Sorry, Mom, we don't have the kind of money it takes for you to live there. You had your whole life to save money for your old age, but you didn't, and now I have my own family to take care of. You'll have to go live in a nursing home as a ward of the state." Nope. I'm sure you wouldn't think that. Similarly, I'm not going to say to my daughter, "Sorry, Alex, you're on your own now that you're 18. See? Here's our net income and here's how much college costs. So you're just gonna have to figure things out for yourself."

We're going to work together to find ways to supplement what we, her parents, can provide---we have no desire or ability to just 'give' her college education to her. And knowing Alex, even if we could, she probably wouldn't let us.

Sometimes, the written word needs some careful crafting in order not to come across in a way not intended...in my opinion. In this particular case---for me---yours could've used a little more massaging and a little less attitude.

I still love you, of course...just had to say my piece.

Okay....I'm over it.....moving on.... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[Thankful4Clay]

Muski

I admire what you have done for your mom.

My husband had all of his college expenses paid for by his rich aunt. Because of that, he doesn't think our kids should have to pay anything for college. He even talked about getting a home equity loan to help pay for college. I told him that there was no way I was going to mortgage our house to send the kids to college.

They can work and they can also get low interest loans. They will both make good salaries once they graduate and they can pay back the loans. Can you tell that I didn't get much help when I went to college?

We want the best for our children, but I think they also appreciate it more when they contribute. It sounds like your daughter realizes that.

[gbmifan]

We made a commitment with the kids that we would match any scholarships that they got, plus we would pay half of the tuition, housing, and food cost. Both my husband and I paid all of our college cost. I had no choice my father passed away when I was a senior in high school and it left my mother with four daughters under 17. So I worked and paid my way through. My husband father had no means to pay for him. He did a co-op program that helped with tuition. I always wanted my boys to know we were supportive but they needed to help with their share. I was most disappointed with my oldest when he quit. He keeps telling me he will go back, but he never plans on working for someone. I tease my youngest who graduated from the same college his brother attended that now that he works for his brother he needs to put the diploma up in his office. The boss need to see it, so it reminds him he promised me he will go back. I am not holding my breath.

[KAndre]

Oh lord no, not that I was a "not spoiled" or seeing your child as "spoiled", I basically redefined hard-headed...because there was no way in hell anyone (especially my mother - was going to offer me any advice I was willing to listen to or felt any obligation to). Not dissing all our librarians in here, but my mother for my entire high school career was pushing hard for me to major in Library Science...because I liked to read so much. And I think she wished she had gone into it. I like librarians, but the idea of letting strange people mess with my books is disturbing to me. I kept my mother so very far out of the loop - up to and including not having a clue as to my grades...much less my major. My comments weren't aimed so much at your specific situation so much as what I see as something that's turned into a given that parents must pay for college (and the number of nieces and nephews and their friends I watched basically blow off their first year - it's like they were the perfect high school seniors but within minutes of arriving on campus, they auditioned for "Animal House" - and some of them seemed to accept their parents' scrimping and saving as their due. The fact that your daughter seriously thinks about the financials just makes me want to use her sensitivity to beat some of the children I know over the head..."Why can't you be like this woman I met over the internet's daughter (OK, for someone with a college degree I know the possessive is totally in the wrong place)". It's more that I don't really see self-financing higher education as limiting her opportunities any more than any other constraint would. The time frame might change (and that's another completely different issue - hell, I was in school for almost 9 years - but made a deliberate choice of being a poor student instead of "gainfully employed". I learned how much I hated ramen noodles - but I also learned eating stuff I didn't like wouldn't actually kill me).

But I am in so many ways a complete and total control freak, and I know it would drive me insane not to have info for my plans when it came to my eduation (at least the second time around), and I tend to think everyone ought to behave just like me. I try to believe that thing my therapist told me about how "people have legitimate ways of doing things that are not the same as yours" but it still hasn't actually sunk in. But it's only been about 20 years.

The whole "social intercourse" thing is one of my weak points - I listened to my sister, BIL, aunt and uncle reminisce on how horrible junior high/middle school was...and to me, they just seemed to be exaggerating the horror. They finally convinced me that it really was that bad (BIL and aunt are/were middle school teachers) and my sister explained I was just totally oblivious to it all and something of a freak. I can accept that.

As for elder care - that's tough. Because so many in my family are scarily like me - only thank heavens, healthy and lucid well into their old age. My grandmother stayed in the house my grandfather built until she died. She refused to stay with any of her 9 children, which meant they had to take turns driving 186 miles each way alternating weeks. The only thing I ended up doing was keeping her last cat. I'm fortunate that I have a large enough extended family that so far such a burden doesn't look it would fall on me. But then I watched the misery that my ex's family went through at the end of his mother's life. In so many ways, my family is almost ruthlessly practical, terminally independent, and expects everyone to be. I think more sensitive souls probably find us very difficult to deal with.

[Kareneh]

Pala pictures? These are the ones I've been working on....sort of lately......without regularity. Can I do some more work on them and send you some at the beginning of the week, goldarngirl? I had to go look to see how far into them I was.

Anyway, a couple from Pala....

I can't believe I got to say something to him that I had only ever said in a dream or two..."I DO." Can I help it if he was just asking my sister who had her camera so he would know where to look? That's a minor detail I'm willing to overlook in this case. Can't wait until I get to go back to New York in December!

[00lsee]

You mean, Karen Eh? is on my side of the world? EEEEE!!! Howdy, buddy!

Okay, here are my thoughts about the continued struggle some are having right now:

For what it's worth, I have a habit probably left over from some long-ago cognitive therapy. When I'm faced with difficult or recurring troublesome thoughts/feelings, I ask myself, "Okay...and?"

Clay lied. Okay...and?

Clay didn't admit he lied. Okay...and?

Clay didn't acknowledge someone's specific pain. Okay...and?

Clay led fans to believe he was straight. Okay...and?

Religion is an issue here. Okay...and?

Clay had a baby out of wedlock. Okay...and?

Clay is living with a woman not his wife. Okay...and?

She's 50 years old!

lol Okay...and?

Clay's blog was unsatisfactory/not enough. Okay...and?

Some fans disagree with my feelings! Okay...and?

I need more time to process this. Okay...and?

The reason I say "Okay...and?" (or the equally useful "Now what?") is because I have zero control over most things that might feel upsetting at the time. I can't fix it. So, if I ask myself, "Okay...and?", it forces me to come up with more than restating or repeating the same pain statements (like, "but I feel deceived!").

It leads me to examine what I think about my statement...

Okay...and?

Okay, here's how my thoughts make me feel.

Okay...and?

Well, I have some other thoughts about this.

Okay...and?

There are other feelings I'm working through.

Okay...and?

Now, I admit a handful of folks at OFC have severely tried my patience just because I disagree with their views (or their manners) so very strongly, but others just seem...sincerely stuck. I have the most compassion for them, because I have felt stuck many times in my life.

I realize grieving is a process which is different for everyone and which has no timetable, but I also know from personal experience the hazards of 'the struggle'...such as mulling the same hurt over and over again, feeling misunderstood by others, taking my pain out and examining it...feeling and reliving that anguish as though it were fresh, indefinitely. That just doesn't work for me in the long run.

Okay, let me make this personal. I am grappling with some serious non-Clay problems in my real life. However, after a certain period of feeling terrible, sad, and angry....after talking to others, seeking advice or consolation or just validation of my feelings...there came a point where I started to feel uncomfortable continuing on that path. I began to feel stuck, trapped in my pain, bogged down by my personal drama.

I mean, I still want to talk through these issues and sometimes I just want to vent safely...but what I really want is to find ways to make something positive out of it, to grow because of it, to help others cope with it. It even turns out that sometimes what I really need is a hard kick to my backside. Not that I appreciate the bootmarks at the TIME, but later, I usually realize how loving that kick actually was.

Anyway, when I started feeling stuck, I returned to what has worked for me in the past...and began to look outward, to examine my alternatives, weigh other viewpoints, figure out ways to detach, find the humor in the situation, think new thoughts so I could feel new feelings...etc.

I really don't want to argue with others about how they handle their own issues. But I can share what has worked for me in the past. My main advice has been and continues to be..there's no rush...sit with this a while, because time may bring new perspectives. And maybe bring to heart and mind some new questions like: Okay...and? or..Now what?

That's about all I got for now. Love you guys.

[rohdy]

Ahhhh..... student loans. We live for student loans! Well, kinda. Hubby went to school when he was 30, we had a house payment and three kids, the youngest two being 1 and 2. So we got money from his GI Bill, student loans, a grant here and there and I ran a small day care out of the house. (Oh...and thank you Uncle Sam for your wonderful WIC program! We could eat!) He graduated in 3 1/2 years, with $10,000 in loans. They were paid off, just as it was time to start to pay off our oldest child's student loans (local college). Middle child, bless his heart received a full ride, based on academics (though he did drop out, fall of his senior year). The youngest has a few student loans we are picking at. However. When she expressed an interest in going to med school, we encouraged her to go, said we would help, but the loans were hers. She graduated June of '07, $200,000 in debt, happy as a bug in a rug. Once she completes her study for her speciality, she will make $300-500,000 a year.

The kids never expected us to pay their student loans, we had told them many times that no one helped dad, but as life progressed and we were able to do it.....we did.

Good luck Muski! And everyone else with college age children....it is a challenge. A worthwhile challenge!

[merrieeee]

I got nuttin' other than:

::waves to 00lsee:: :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[Couch Tomato]

Hey OOlsee :F_05BL17blowkiss: when I see posts like that I feel like I have a sympathy gene missing. I never thought I did. Thought I was quite the empathetic person. Live and learn.

[00lsee]

Hey OOlsee :F_05BL17blowkiss: when I see posts like that I feel like I have a sympathy gene missing. I never thought I did. Thought I was quite the empathetic person. Live and learn.

Okay...and?

Bwahahahahaha

No, really. I'm going to bed now. (((couchie, my buddy)))

*waves back to merrieeee.

Night night.

[goldarngirl]

Pala pictures? These are the ones I've been working on....sort of lately......without regularity. Can I do some more work on them and send you some at the beginning of the week, goldarngirl? I had to go look to see how far into them I was.

Anyway, a couple from Pala....

I can't believe I got to say something to him that I had only ever said in a dream or two..."I DO." Can I help it if he was just asking my sister who had her camera so he would know where to look? That's a minor detail I'm willing to overlook in this case. Can't wait until I get to go back to New York in December!

Thank you for responding. Heck I haven't even started this set. So I'm thinking a few weeks. I have been doing the photo montage at the end of the set, so you have some time no worries. I just wanted to give people a couple to three weeks, head start.

Looking forward to seeing your pics. They are always outstanding.

[cha cha trusty]

College tuition?? TG we just got our fourth and final daughter to complete her bachelors last DEC - she's turning 30 at the end of this month! She started the process over 10 years ago!

muski - I feel for ya - it a long and painful process!

mrchach was beginning to think he would never be able to retire! We've refinanced more times that I can count!! But we are still afloat, although it's hard since the economy has tanked in the past year. A little belt-tightening looks inevitable from here on in!!

I bit the bullet and opened my package from Amazon, but I worked out a deal with myself to do a session on the Wii Fit before I sat down to read. :thumbup: One day down!! :Kolobok_Laie_haha:

Off to Forks.....

[bottlecap]

A pic from last night's stagedoor from Starry:

Another familiar sweater makes an appearance, I see. And since when has Jerome taken to dressing like Clay, circa the Fall of 2006? Jerome's monochromatic shirt and tie combo plus jeans looks like what Clay was wearing during the ATDW promo period. "I shaved my leg for you!"

[luckiest1]

Oooh, love that sweater! And don't I recognize that orange shirt that's under it?

Gibby, thanks for your kind comments on the montages. Hope you are enjoying the Merrillville CITH. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Thanks for the Pala pictures, Karen Eh. And LMAO about your "I do" comment to Clay.

College tuitions? Frankly, I'm not really comfortable discussing the how and whys of mine & my 3 kids' financial solutions on the net. Suffice to say I have two in college now, and one headed there in the next year or two. So I know of what you all speak, v.v. well. We all have our own challenges.

[luckiest1]

Some Spam reports, via CH:

butterflyshine at CV wrote:Youtube of stage door from Meg_Leisey from last night's show...she went to see Equus last night, but went to Spam stage door...while Clay was signing she told him ""you are much better then daniel radcliff naked" ...

Now this video CMSU. You can hear the comment, see Clay's reaction, then the girls start singing Ashes. Too cute.