#18: He has always had the VOICE! But, boy has he ever learned to use his instrument!

[Thankful4Clay]

I heard about a 'fake Clay' but I didn't know in what context. I thought someone was PMing fans pretending to be Clay. Sounds like it was a fan communicating with JP and JP was convinced it was Clay.

It was both. Chexxxy's blog ignited most of this...as usual. I still have no idea what her intent is, besides being the "bestest fan evah". JP went nuts when the first blog was posted. I guess he started adding things up and realized he'd been HAD...big time.

The thing that bothers me the most is that these people are messing with fire. He is dangerous and poking him doesn't do anything but make things worse for Clay...in my opinion.

So someone from Chexxxy's was trying to set JP up so that he would trip himself? He's done that enough times on his own. He doesn't need any help. I always believed Clay and I have no need to prove that JP is a liar. That's a given.

I think that Chexxxy and her ilk are more dangerous than JP. JMO.

[merrieeee]

When many thought the skits were awful, I just shook my head. How can you critique someone who is baring his soul?

I can tell you I was shocked at some of the comments about his performance in Frisco. The absolute worst of them came from people who were not even there and had only seen clack! I can understand being disappointed and not liking something if you were actually were there. After all everyone has a right to their opinion but to be as venomous as those people, who were not in attendance were, well that just floored me!

I just don't get how you can profess to be a fan of someone and cut him down when he doesn't do something the way YOU think he should!

[Bookwhore]

The most important things about a venue to me are: the acoustics, the camera policy, is there a pit?, how high/far the stage is, the lighting, is there a place for a pre-or-post party? and will there be a bus line?

A girl who has her priorities straight!

[sheiladownunder]

I find the church's teachings reprehensible myself, unfortunately not that unusual for this part of the country. Not to say that all churches think like this, but there are a lot.

I work with a lot of fundamentalists. They bake cakes and throw parties for people who are gay, but they also pray for their souls that they will turn away from their sinful lifestyles.

[Divayenta]

jumpingjacks, I think y0u answered my question - makes a lot of sense.

It's always a tough one- I mean, there was a time when the Mormons didn't believe that black people were fully human and could get to heaven. Unreal, huh? Luckily, they came around.

merriiee, my little chickadee, the "skits" I was referring to were his Christmas ones two years ago. I found his entire premise from the heart and quite touching. But I get what you are saying with your post, too.

[Claygasm]

I have always been one to stand on principle. Sometimes to a fault.

I cannot for the life of me understand how Clay reconciles what I think (and hope) he believes with the teachings of this church - or his church for that matter, but that is between him, his heart and his God.

As for me, if that venue was in my own backyard and it was the ONLY concert I could attend, I wouldn't. I wouldn't because I wouldn't want one cent of my money to go to any organization with such reprehensible principles - especially in the name of God.

But that's just me.

Clay makes his choices based on what he thinks, believes and can live with. As it should be.

Once again, while I do not like that he chose to appear at this partuicular venue, it is his decision, not mine.

And it is not a deal breaker for me.

[merrieeee]

Diva, I knew what you meant but there was one post regarding Frisco I saw that got me so insensed, I don't think I will ever forget it.

I loved the skits from the JNT, that year. I thought he tried very hard to give us a great show and for my part he more than succeeded!

[Scarlett]

Does anybody know how many ClearChannel/LiveNation venues we've already seen Clay in? If I were picking venues (and I'm not), I'd definitely put Kansas before them in my book.

ETA: Just to explain, in my mind the ClearChannel and Wichita folks are cut from the same cloth; the difference to me is that CC directly affects other people's lives through power and influence

[ldyjocelyn]

I think something else that also comes into play here is that actions sometimes speak a LOT louder than words. Clay has shown that he has no problem with gay people. Who knows -- maybe someone at that church will figure out a few things. And if one (ONE) person figures it out, then that's a great step toward tolerance.

AMEN to couchie below me!

[Couch Tomato]

I've never thought of JNT05 as a soul baring show. But he did feel what all artist feels when they take risks and chances. You're gonna get critiqued. You have to be able to take those and grow from it and I think he did. I haven't liked everything Clay has done but then again, I haven't liked everything I've done. But there is a way to voice feedback that is respectful because I really do think he looks for it. But I guess that is something Clay Nation is still working on. heh.

[saltwaterdog]

The most important things about a venue to me are: the acoustics, the camera policy, is there a pit?, how high/far the stage is, the lighting, is there a place for a pre-or-post party? and will there be a bus line?

And, how many of my friends are going to be there! I didn't care for the idea of going to a concert in a casino, but Pala turned out to be one of my favorites ever! Many very large churches have wonderful acoustics and sound but the idea of screening out someone like Clay, doing a Christmas concert, just seems so unreal to me. Who knows the truth. I just hope the concert goes on as scheduled so Clay can blow the doubters away - Clay's faith just glows from within him during many of the religious Christmas songs.

I didn't like the group numbers at all, so I guess I didn't pay close enough attention to Clay. I was hoping they wouldn't show many, but now I'm curious!

Someone mentioned earlier today (I apologize for not remembering who) that Invisible meshed with Clay's voice much better than BFM or ATD. I think another song well suited to his voice is Kyrie. I remember he mentioned once that he would like to record it and at the time I hoped that he would. As much as I still love the song, now I just hope for no more covers. In concert, maybe, but not recorded.

[Couch Tomato]

I didn't like the group numbers at all, so I guess I didn't pay close enough attention to Clay. I was hoping they wouldn't show many, but now I'm curious!

Group numbers from season 2, especially top 5 on down are absolutely superb. These were people who knew how to harmonize and sing together.

[jumpingjacks]

Loved the group numbers on AI2...

[merrieeee]

I don't think any group before or since can compare to Season 2!

[jmh123]

BTW, I hope that scum watches the AI Rewind Wildcard show intently -- the one where Clay feels up every single girl in the room while playing for sympathy. *GGG* (thanks to KAndre for pointing this out)

He not only feels up the girls during the Wildcard show, but he ogles the girls throughout AI2. Just watch him, especially during the group numbers. If he's following a girl, he often checks out her legs or butt. In one of the group numbers, several girls are wearing belly-baring outfits, and he is clearly looking at their bellies and enjoying it. He looked at cleavage a little bit, too, but tried pretty hard to cover it up! We may not see as much of this if they don't show the group numbers during AIR.

This is one of the reasons I never thought Clay was gay - it was pretty obvious to me that he enjoyed being with girls.

Sooopoo, basically are you saying that Clay is just another guy pig?

Just gotta word these observations. He gets a kick out of his "interactions" with Angela as well. Well, often, more than a kick, if you know what I mean.

{{{Divayenta}}}

[KAndre]

Ducking in quickly to say that the group sing where Clay was, um...distracted was "I've Had the Time of My Life". He was paired with KLo, who clearly has always believed in cleavage. It's one of the few times Clay is not playing to the camera - I swear he's singing the entire song to her boobies. H is subtle with it. And I mean like Clay subtle, not normal subtle.

Why doesn't someone pay me to take care of family crap? Poot.

[Bookwhore]

Ducking in quickly to say that the group sing where Clay was, um...distracted was "I've Had the Time of My Life". He was paired with KLo, who clearly has always believed in cleavage. It's one of the few times Clay is not playing to the camera - I swear he's singing the entire song to her boobies. H is subtle with it. And I mean like Clay subtle, not normal subtle.

Why doesn't someone pay me to take care of family crap? Poot.

I don't remember that..I hope they show it on Rewind. It would be fun to watch. Do you ever wonder if Faye never said to him, "Now Clayton, it's not gentelmanly to stare at a womans boosoms busums bosums busoms. " (how the hell do you spell that, anyway?)

[ldyjocelyn]

Who knows how long it will last on YouTube, but it's been there for a while now....

[muskifest]

It's spelled "boobs", Bookwhore!

JP? Huh? Did someone burp?

Performing at the church in Wichita? Huh? Did someone burp?

Clay looking at women's boobs and butts? Oh yeah. He likes to do that. And in that lucky bitch Angela's case, he does more than just look...

So by the end of today, I put a password on all the accounts on our home computer, with Carrie the only one NOT privy to it. (Of course, I've always had my own password to protect my clorn literary endeavors.)...She was also told that she is grounded for two weeks at least--no television, no social phone calls, no stopping by the coffee house or someone's house on the way home from school, no going over to anyone's house on weekends and nobody coming here. Nuthin. Kenny even suggested we take her off the fall league softball team! :o

Why? Let's just say that she's twelve years old and we're hoping she'll develop a conscience before she becomes a teenager.

I, on the other hand, only lose any sense of conscience---any 'little voice' or angel on my shoulder---when I'm smutting. :20:

[Ansamcw]

I find the church's teachings reprehensible myself, unfortunately not that unusual for this part of the country. Not to say that all churches think like this, but there are a lot.

I work with a lot of fundamentalists. They bake cakes and throw parties for people who are gay, but they also pray for their souls that they will turn away from their sinful lifestyles.

My mom and my Aunt are like this too. They would never discriminate against gay people...they would never turn their backs on my cousin who is gay or any gay persons...but they are a product of their upbringing, they have been members of their Church all their life...and they will follow their Churches stance on this. Its a very convoluted issue and as much as I disagree with them...I cannot really blame them for it. To follow the teaching of the church is just so ingrained in them. There is no arguing about it...they will simply pray for you when you try to change their mind.

I am actually giving this Church credit for not acting like the Pure Fashion people who simply didn;t give Clay a chance to defend himself...who simply took him out of the group of performers. I am really happy they did that cos that group is one that I wouldn't want Clay to be part of. But in this instance, when you have a huge Church you will have all kinds of people and I pretty much expected that some members would question this decision. To me what is important is what the Church elders do about it.

As a whole...to me this is just a venue..

CG I respect your position...but for me...and probably for Clay, I cannot take such a strong stance precisely because of people I love that is in this position. Its just when you say the people are reprehensible..I know it is not always that black and white and that there are a lot of good people that simply are following what they have been taught all these years and the Church too is following what was handed to them. Change is sure needed and its starting to happen...just not fast enough.

[Bookwhore]

Who knows how long it will last on YouTube, but it's been there for a while now....

Awwww, thanks ldyj :F_05BL17blowkiss: . I just had a big ole grin on my face watching that. And the six clips I watched after it. He's addictive. You can't just watch one when there are dozens right there in front of you.

[Claygasm]

CG I respect your position...but for me...and probably for Clay, I cannot take such a strong stance precisely because of people I love that is in this position. Its just when you say the people are reprehensible..I know it is not always that black and white and that there are a lot of good people that simply are following what they have been taught all these years and the Church too is following what was handed to them. Change is sure needed and its starting to happen...just not fast enough.

And I respect you position too. I guess I have a really hard time understanding why anyone can think someone is a sinner based souly on something over which they have no choice. Often it comes down to thinking anyone is a sinner who is different from you - different religion, different sexual preference, different race, different culture...... I can give individuals a pass - maybe - if I assume they just don't know better, although I cannot imagine how anyone cannot know better in this day and age. But the organizations that proliferate this kind of bigotry and hatred, they get no pass from me and I will not allow my money to help them keep brainwashing people.

But as I said, everyone has to follow their own heart and their own conscience.

[liney23]

{{{{{{Divayenta}}}}}}

Ask and you shall get... hugs that is!

{{{{{{{{{{{muski}}}}}}}}}}

Muski, you got more hugs cause trying to raise a child is deserving of extra hugs any day in my book!

I watched that group sing and didn't particularly think Clay was focusing below the neck, but I sure have seen plenty of other times that he has. He was always laying his head on someone's chest and they weren't male chests...

Clay has said he doesn't make the tour schedule. I would love to know just how and when he does have input. All I know for sure is I wouldn't want to be anyone at that church or in that audience if any of his touring family is insulted in any way while they are there. No siree bob!

[Couch Tomato]

Clay has said he doesn't make the tour schedule. I would love to know just how and when he does have input. All I know for sure is I wouldn't want to be anyone at that church or in that audience if any of his touring family is insulted in any way while they are there. No siree bob!

I agree ..some folks will only wish they were a coke machine hee.

[playbiller]

My real repugnance was not that the Pure people took Clay off the roster, but that they played in the mud with the people with no lives. That they wrote one letter to the letter writing campaign people and another to the fans. This blatent hypocrisy is a mortal sin according to the Catholic encyclopedia

Hypocrisy is the pretension to qualities which one does not possess, or, more cognately to the scope of this article, the putting forward of a false appearance of virtue or religion.

Essentially its malice is identical with that of lying; in both cases there is discordance between what a man has in his mind and the simultaneous manifestation of himself. So far as the morality of the act goes, it is unimportant that this difference between the interior and the exterior be set out in words, as happens in formal lies, or be acted out in one's demeanour, as is true of simulation.

To determine when it is so, cognizance must be taken of the motive which prompts the sinner to adopt his hypocritical bearing. If the end he has in view be such as to be incompatible with the love of God or one's neighbour, for example, if his purpose were thus to spread abroad false doctrine more unimpededly and more thoroughly, he must clearly be considered to have commited mortal sin. When, on the other hand, his animus does not involve such opposition to the supreme law of charity, the sin is esteemed to be venial, as, for instance, when one finds satisfaction in the completeness with which he carries off his part.

The portrait of hypocrisy is drawn with appalling vividness by Christ in His denunciation of the Pharisees in Matthew 23:23-24: "Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you tithe mint, and anise, and cummin, and have left the weightier things of the law; judgment, and mercy, and faith. These things you ought to have done, and not to leave those undone. Blind guides, who strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel."

I believe they committed a mortal sin because they were trying to protect themselves by showing two sides to two different groups a people a small mean group and a large friendly one. They did not need to do that to acheive their aims, it was an unnesccessary set of lies, iot was also a sign of their insecurity that they felt they needed approval of the slime. I hope that every day someone points out where their names showed up and what hypocrits they are. I also hope they were not only fired from their volunteer positions, but eliminated from any power they may have worked toward inthe church, but then again, I am not bitter. They were in a role where they were supposed to display moral leadership and they failed spectacularly. I really hope everyone got their money back!

As to Clay appearing at the venuue, Yes, I do believe it is quite like a casino - it was not Bob Jones University, of that I am sure. I admit not to knowing or caring much about their beliefs, all I ever heard was references to beliefs, but I just don't care enough. Much as I didn't care when Clay was scheduled for pure idiots, because it was just a gig he was doing as a favor.