#33: Let's all chant "I think it can! I think it can! I think it can!"

[Ansamcw]

Scarlett I don;t know either cos there are people there that have a problem with it thats for sure. But it certainly is becoming a recognized social phenomena...that is why my friend's husband was asked to write an article about it from a "cougar" partner POV. I always thought that in the asian culture there is less dichotomy...less black and white thinking IMO. At times it seems that there is less rigid social norms so that a sex scandal do not derail politicians careers and we can have female presidents.

[merryclay]

The topic is of the moment is about things that disgust us? *Oooh, pick me, pick me!*

Things I find classy:

- great friends caring for each other, helping each other, standing by each other

- people wanting others to be happy

- people waiting to verify news

- Clay never using the word "weird" in relation to his fans no matter how much we drool over his body parts or smut like there's no tomorrow or post embarrassingly lovey-dovey comments on his blog without regard for our "status/standing" in comparison to him

Things I find skivvy:

*nevermind*

I love you, Scarlett!!! To me, what's weird is how so many fans take this news/rumor personally -- like Clay's decision to father a child has disrupted their lives. That's what's weird.

If this situation was between Ashton Kuchar and Demi Moore there would still be the ::wink, wink, nudge, nudge:: from the media but it would be of the "way to go Ashton" variety and there would be high fives all around. Why because Ashton Kuchar is cool and Clay Aiken is not!

Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore are just the latest ....

Poor Yoko, what she went through -- not in the tabloids, but in the MAIN ASS MEDIA ALL OVER THE WORLD FOR YEARS AND YEARS!

Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn -- I think Goldie had a baby in her mid-late-40's.

Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon -- I think when they hooked up he was about 29 and she was 42 or 43. They're still together after twenty years and a couple of kids. I'm sure somebody thought it was weird. Happily for them and their children, they didn't give a fuck.

[Most of the time I can see both sides of a situation, but in this instance, I have nothing but acceptance for Clay's private life, and think is bizarre for others to have such strong negative feelings about this subject. JIMO.

Some think it's weird, and some like me think that thinking it's weird is weird. Of course, I lived for over 14 years with a much younger man, so it's not some crazy alien concept for me. The younger men today are nothing like the men my age. NOTHING. Not everybody wants, or could even live with a white-picket-fence existence. What is a dream for some would be a horror for others. If you didn't have a conventional dream life growing up, I can understand why it would be something sought after. But, if you grew up with the white picket fence, there's a good chance you could be interested in pursuing a less conventional and structured life.

Regarding discussion of the "downhome" picture -- what jumped out immediately upon seeing that almost two years ago is not that Clay and Jaymes are lusting after each other, but that he brought her into his family. What I heard back then, and I don't remember where and I can't vouch for it, is that this picture was taken at Clay's step-sister's house in that little NC town where Ray's family came from and where Jamie lives. Jaymes wasn't there as his executive producer since it looks like they've been berry-picking along the railroad tracks, or working on the tractor. What I see in that picture is that Jaymes Foster is FAMILY.

I can't abide reading ONE MORE TIME about Clay being so nice to donate some sperm to her in her time of need. Whatever is going on here, this is NOT about the benevolent Clay tossing a wiggler her way. Whatever they have, it's good enough to have a child together -- because apparently they made that decision.

And the last thing I'll say about that relationship is this personal anecdote that I never discuss with anyone. The one man in my life that I loved beyond the ability to understand it and for which words have always failed -- we never had sex. When we accidentally touched I thought I would disintegrate. And when we happen to see each other (a few times through the years) our eyes dance, our faces light up, our words drip with significance, and we both understand that the love with never die. It's other-worldly somehow. I've felt blessed and privileged to have known such love that seems to be on another plane of existence. Crazy, huh? I'm sure a lot of people probably think that's weird. Like I care.

I think Clay has always been open and honest about his views and he has never cast himself as an ultra conservative...re-read LTS; he pretty much laid out his views there and it was pretty obvious that he is quite liberal in his thinking.

The problem; as I see it; is the fans who took certain things he said, overlooked others and then made him a poster boy for their particular moral code...not fair to Clay at all.

Oh and Couchie; I rather have the artificial insemination attachment to my name than American Idol!

Kim

you betcha!!!!

[Bookwhore]

Hmmm, not picking on your daughter BW, but like justclay said, the last CD MJ put out was Invincible in 2001, which frankly sucked and still sold 8 million. People really started noting the "weird" by Dangerous ("wacko jacko", still sold 27 million). His reputation was in the toilet by HIStory, which still sold 15 million. What didn't she buy?

She didn't buy his music. I thought what I said in my post was that she no longer bought his music because she didn't like how weird he had become, not because the music was bad. I doubt that she was alone. And a drop from 27 to 8 million is pretty significant. Maybe there were 18,999,999 people that didn't buy it because the music sucked and my daughter was the only one who didn't buy it because he was weird. But I doubt it.

This is believable...and in line with the Clay we got to know...

Well I don't know him at all. I know his public personna and what few little glimpses of his life he allows us to see and that's it. To me the story is almost unbelievable based on that personna.

It is interesting that such high emotions have arisen out of discussions based on a two facts that haven't even been officially confirmed by the parties concerned:

At the same time, I do see similarities in the fandom's reactions to them.

Both have Clay doing something totally unexpected.

Both test his fans' understanding of him, how he's presented himself, etc.--in different contexts, to be sure, but in both cases some fans have found themselves questioning their previous 'knowledge' of Clay and feeling 'betrayed' or 'lied to'...

I so agree with this assessment! Well, except the part about having high emotions and feeling betrayed and lied to. I can honestly say I have had no emotional reaction to the story at all. Confusion and feeling it's weird aren't emotions, and I certainly don't feel betraye or lied to because Clay has never told me a blessed thing! It's so totally unexpected and out in left field I found myself scratching my head and going WFT???

To me, this breaking news, wasn't that Clay Aiken was going to be a father, it was the need to add the method of the pregnancy that was the story and it's the need to remind the audience that he has been plagued with questions about his sexuality. It's that underlying jab, see this is another sign he must be gay. It's the underlying jab that no self respecting "real" man of 29 would be having a child with a 50 year old woman. No one blinks an eye if it is even a 20 year old woman having a 50 year old man's baby with no plans of being married. The double standards and predjudice are all over this story. That's the thing that pisses me off about this whole thing. There are no rules in journalism anymore. Truth, integrity and compassion have no place in today's news.

Excellent assessment atinal! I couldn't agree more.

I was just telling a friend today -

when I first got pregnant, I didn't want anybody to know. .........................I just wanted to hold the precious thing close to me. It was too special to become common talk. You know? It was my Precious! It was mine to think about, hug emotionally, smile to myself about. Like holding on to Magic and Light.

Any of this making sense?

It totally makes sense to me Cotton. I did the same thing. When I was preganat my DH and I kept it to ourselves until I started to show. It was our magic and our miracle. I, too, wish the news hadn't been leaked. If it's true, they deserve to have the opportunity to watch their own miracle unfold without a thousand prying eyes on them.

Weird? Not so sure.

Maybe it's just semantics.

Nope, it's not. Merriam Webster Online defines weird as "of strange or extraordinary character ". Dictionary.com defines it as "fantastic; bizarre". So yeah...strange, extraordinary, fantastic and bizarre pretty much describes my reaction. There is nothing wrong with being weird OR with thinking something is weird. It's just an opinion. My daughter's boyfriend has pink hair, guaged ears and tattoos everywhere. He's weird (see above definitions). But I just love him to pieces because he's sweet and kind and treats her (and me) well. But he's still weird. And so is the baby momma/baby daddy story.

[calurker]

For a long time I have been known as "anonymous viewer" at this site....I always thought of myself as "a notorius lurker"....sounds more mysterious somehow.

Today, however , I thought I'd take the plunge into reality and let ya all know I am so enjoying reading all your posts. The interpretations,reasoning and humour are enlightening .The surprising clairvoyance of a few has caused me to smile, but in all of this the obvious love for the man still stands strong and that is very reasuring.(after lurking at some other boards, that is....shame on some of the OFC "fans")

I have never been one to let the media shove something down my throat and force me to swallow it.........I choose to give incoming info a really good chew first. My first reaction to this news was to laugh....don't ask me why. Maybe because so many attempts have been made to discredit him...I don't know why they do that either........but I do know that the truth will out, one way or another and in it's own good time. (ha,ha...something like the delivery time of a baby)

Just a bit of info..on Access Hollywood today they annouced that in the next segment they would show pictures and introduce us to the "mommy" of Clay's baby........they must have conveniently lost the tape because there was nothing about Clay in the last segment..... it just gets curiouser and curiouser, don't it.

What I do know is the man is hawt and the voice is amazing and I can't get enough. On that note I will step back into my sanctuary and wait for the next chapter in the ongoing saga that is Clay Aiken.

[playbiller]

It is interesting how it is the second Jaymes story to be squashed. I wonder if her brother is calling some chips he has out there to stop exposing her to the media.

[laljeterfan]

calurker!

[jamar1700]

I have to admit the longer Clay's camp keeps quiet about it...the more I tend to believe it.

Huh. And I am thinking just the opposite. I think if it were TRUE they would have made a statement. Now I think it's being treated like all the other trashy gossip about Clay that is out there...ignored.

[Gibby]

Welcome, calurker!

I certainly wouldn't mind if you posted more often.

And I see my good friend smz80219 down there, too!! Here's a welcome for you - please post sometime, hon!

[muskifest]

It is interesting that such high emotions have arisen out of discussions based on a two facts that haven't even been officially confirmed by the parties concerned:

At the same time, I do see similarities in the fandom's reactions to them.

Both have Clay doing something totally unexpected.

Both test his fans' understanding of him, how he's presented himself, etc.--in different contexts, to be sure, but in both cases some fans have found themselves questioning their previous 'knowledge' of Clay and feeling 'betrayed' or 'lied to'...

I so agree with this assessment! Well, except the part about having high emotions and feeling betrayed and lied to. I can honestly say I have had no emotional reaction to the story at all. Confusion and feeling it's weird aren't emotions, and I certainly don't feel betraye or lied to because Clay has never told me a blessed thing! It's so totally unexpected and out in left field I found myself scratching my head and going WFT???

Thanks, BW...and what I bolded of your post is important because that's a part that I see similar--note in MY quote, I said 'some' fans...because I know fans from the 2006 who DID feel betrayed and lied to (because they believed some or all of the 'news'), and certainly from some of the posts at OFC there are some feeling that way this time (because they believe some or all of the news). That's what I meant. Ansa, I wasn't 'rating' the purported behavior or alleged actions of Clay in the two examples on a scale of 'acceptability'; I was trying to show how the fucking tabloid media can take anything and create similar reactions. See my intro sentence: "I do see similarities in the fandom's reaction to them"

Bottom line for me is that TMZ said something and other media took it and ran with it as though TMZ could be used as an actual news source. And for me personally, I don't value People's integrity any more than Insider, ET, Access Hollywood or any of the entertainment 'news' programs---it's ratings and sensationalism, period, for them, IMO.

RE: the older woman thing. Crap....I copied something from merrieee's post way back there and lost it, too lazy to go back and look...but basically, I'll say that hell...if I were in Jaymes' shoes and a mutual attraction grew with Clay, I'd say, "HELL YEAH!"...If it were a romantic, lustful and loving attraction---HELL YEAH! If it were a loving, nurturing, soul-sharing bond that made having a child a mutually rewarding and beneficial choice, I'd say HELL YEAH!

Because Clay is exactly the kind of 'younger man' I've always thought would be drawn to an older woman and one who (obviously) attracts the eye and heart and other parts (heh) of older, more experienced women. (Life experienced, I'm talking about here!) Somebody back there said something to this effect re: the scenario if Jaymes wanted a child and was 'screening' donors. My GOD, woman! Look no further! He stands before you! Lies beneath you! Is poised over you! In whatever position, could she FIND a more wonderful vial of DNA? So if that's the true scenario and she and Clay created a mutually rewarding way to make it happen for them and a child? I think it's beautiful. If none of the 'story' is true? Well....next scandal, please....

So I come back to the bottom line for me--WHETHER OR NOT ANY OR ALL OF THIS 'STORY' IS TRUE:

1. The media sucks. They're truly shameful, reprehensible and embarrassing to me.

2. Clay and Jaymes are two adults and have the right to choose just how they want each other to be involved in their lives.

3. Fans who find themselves reacting to the possibility of ANY truth to this report in an extreme emotional way should give themselves some time to go through some processing of both the information available and their own emotional investment in whatever the truth turns out to be before they make any final assessment. I suggest this for both their own personal well being and for their being part of that FANDOM of Clay. (This last thing is purely MY opinion, friends...I'm not trying to dictate behavior of others, only suggesting a way for people to work with uncomfortable feelings in themselves.)

I feel like we need to have an FCA "Retreat" somewhere--maybe in a Santa Fe type setting---to be present and in person with each other. Sit around and have great conversations over this. See and really listen to each person's opinions and rationales. Wouldn't that be wonderful? Some wine and cheez doodles and all of thee....

Trying to communicate such deep and complex views in words on a virtual page is fraught with dangers. In any case, it continues to be an amazing ride--this relationship we have with Clay Aiken. And I love him and what he brings to this rag-tag world.

[Couch Tomato]

I have to admit the longer Clay's camp keeps quiet about it...the more I tend to believe it.

Huh. And I am thinking just the opposite. I think if it were TRUE they would have made a statement. Now I think it's being treated like all the other trashy gossip about Clay that is out there...ignored.

heee..to me I can see it both ways and it makes me giggle. I for one will NEVAH figure him out.

Hey Calurker... or as I'll think of you as Notorius Lurker... come on in, come on in

[Couch Tomato]

Muski I OBJECT

to the cheeze doodles

Cheetohs is the only orange snack I eat.

I agree with you that online communication is very tough especially when you actually care about the people you are talking to. I have my tricks from long years of doing this to keep me on an even keel. It works most of the time. I try to take care in what I'm writing. On controversial topics I do think twice and read twice before posting. Hell since yesterday I've actually posted a couple of things and then quickly deleted. I'm sure someone has seen them LOL. And then I try to distance myself a bit from what I'm reading. Opinions don't have to match mine and I totally love passion in a post whether it's the direct opposite of me. Disagreement is not a sign of disrespect, even passionate strong disagreement. And the main thing for me..I don't care if I'm alone in my opinion. I think that's the hardest thing...to be a voice alone in the wilderness.

so you home muski or going out....Im going to your town later to drop of my neice at a birthday party... do you want your spam poster?

[playbiller]

Now, that would be sulfer free organic wine, correct Muski?

Besides the person I am handling, there is no one else who paid for a poster/magnet and didn't get it, is there? If I don't here in a few days, I will have 1 of each avaialble, but already have a list of wanters for the poster, but the magnet is still available.

[aikim]

Muski I OBJECT

to the cheeze doodles

Cheetohs is the only orange snack I eat.

I prefer Cheez-It's myself!

And I am in the camp that if it weren't true he would have issed a denial right away.

Kim

[muskifest]

Actually, I'm not even a Cheez Doodle afficionada...I'm a tortilla chips and salsa kinda gal...I just wanted the eHP to be sure they were invited...

Re: the People mag vs other types of media as a gauge of its own integrity? Just saw this post on CH

People.com

Top 25 Celebrity Hot List

The most buzzed about stars this minute!

#6 Clay Aiken

Latest News

Clay Aiken Is Going to Be a Dad

Top 5 Most Read Stories this Week

1 George Clooney and Sarah Larson Split

2 Ashlee and Pete Wentz Confirm Pregnancy

3 The 'Other Woman' in Shania Twain Split Speaks

4 Will Smith: 'Divorce Is Not An Option'

5 Clay Aiken Is Going to Be a Dad

Oh yeah. They really focus on the REAL news. oy.

Couchie...I gotta take the kids to various places through about 2 pm..then I'm up for grabs! Call me on my cell a bit later... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[cha cha trusty]

This has been going thru my head.......

• Maybe love requires

Walking through the fire

To set me free

So I can rise up from

The Ashes.......

and this.....

We know 2 things:

It's reported that Clay is having a baby with Jaymes

Clay and Jaymes haven't said anything.

That is all...... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Have to go, meeting my daughters and it's raining cats and dogs....... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[ldyjocelyn]

Remember me talking about a week ago about my knee suddenly deciding to bother me? Well, for the past week, I've been trying my best to baby it -- not walking all that much if I can help it, but also trying to walk once in a while to keep it limber. However, it still is bothering me, to the point of I'm limping when I walk. This morning, I wake up -- and I can't MOVE. My back has decided to spasm as well (I'm sure this is due to favoring my leg), so I'm in GREAT shape. I'm alternating heat and ice on my back, and can only sit at my computer for 20 minutes or so at a time. *sigh*

So, let me just say that I'm enjoy the conversation that I'm reading here. I'm with couchie in that the deafening silence from Clay's and/or Jaymes' camp doesn't suggest either the story being true or not; it's just silence at the moment. Frustrating for some I'm sure, but I'm cool with it.

muski, I'm a regular reader of People magazine, and they DO write good stories, especially on non-celebrities. OTOH, the countdown list that Clay made also shows that there is a hunger in our society for this kind of stuff. Sad, but true.

On the suggestion of bottlecap, I read the cover story of EW magazine last week, the one on Usher. She was right, there was very little on the actual album of his, but a LOT on his personal life. And there was one statement he made that I thought was apropos of things going on at the moment. He was also talking about the media swirl around his life at one point, and he said "people love drama." Again, another sad but true statement.

My first reaction to reading this story involving Clay and Jaymes was also one of laughter! Still is, actually. It's such an absurdist thing in so many ways, rather surreal to me.

I am trying my best to keep a balance in believing/not believing the story. However, I think one of the reasons I'm doing that is simply because I want to be prepared for ANY possibility. If it's true, I'm cool with it. If it's not, I'm cool with it as well. If there's some sort of mish-mash between the two, I can deal with that too. I know in my case, since this is such a surreal story to me, I need to keep my mind open to any and all possibilites.

I too would love to be having a FCA Pow-Wow over this whole thing. Can anyone set up a massive conference call? Of course, that means everyone would have to bring their own snacks...

OK, gotta go try to lay down...or take a walk...or something to rid me of the pain....

[Ansamcw]

I have to admit the longer Clay's camp keeps quiet about it...the more I tend to believe it.

Huh. And I am thinking just the opposite. I think if it were TRUE they would have made a statement. Now I think it's being treated like all the other trashy gossip about Clay that is out there...ignored.

But this trashy gossip concerns his close friend and the only reason its a story at all is because its Clay, this is very different from all the other trashy gossip about Clay in the past. The easiest way to get rid of this story is for a statement by Clay camp saying ...its not true. At this point this is taken as true in the media and soon it will be fact to most people that hear it. IF there is a baby...this will affect this babies life cos he/she will be known as Clay's kid. Now if Jaymes is not even pregnant then yeah just ignore it. But if she is pregnant and Clay is NOT the daddy then I don't see why they don't just say so.

Again...I am not saying I am totally convinced, cos who knows...maybe they are just waiting till Monday for the press release saying he is not the father. BUT if we don't hear otherwise until the baby is born then I will conclude that all parties are satisfied with people assuming this is Clay's kid.

HEY calurker!!! welcome!!!

[Couch Tomato]

Yay got my broadway cares DVD!! whoo hooo

[Desertrose]

Like djs111, for some reason, I have always attracted younger men. That is not always a plus. Some years back when I was separated and in process of divorcing from hubby. He was having a major midlife crisis, I was out with my friends hoping to meet someone interesting. The young guys, way too young, would always attached themselves to me even though there were "girls" there that were their age. Once when I mentioned that, the guy answered, "point one out to me that compares to you, and I will go ask her to dance." My girlfriends roared with laughter because they knew that I was not about to do that. So I was stuck with him for the evening. I have been "dating" a man who is younger than me for the last 11 years. In the years previous to meeting him, all the guys that I attracted were a lot younger than me. One really young one tried to talk me into going out with him because he liked older women, and his last girlfriend was 40 years old. I was older than that. Needless to say, I was not comfortable with the big age difference at the time. Now had it been CLAY, it would have been a different story.

I say good for Jaymes!!!! At this time all of this is speculation until either Jaymes or Clay confirms, but if Clay is the father, and he is going to be involved with the child, I am wondering what the child's last name will be, Foster or Aiken. Since Clay changed his last name to his mother's maiden name, it seems to me that last names are important to Clay. Is anybody else wondering about this or am I way ahead since we do not even know for sure?

[Scarlett]

Welcome, calurker!!

or better yet, Welcome to the Jungle!

[Desertrose]

Re: Muski's Retreat Idea

Great idea and Santa Fe sounds good to me. Count me in. Any more takers? Just noticed that I have been promoted from dog walker to body guard. When did that happen?

[Desertrose]

Scarlett,

That insane music skeered me.

[Couch Tomato]

Re: Muski's Retreat Idea

Great idea and Santa Fe sounds good to me. Count me in. Any more takers? Just noticed that I have been promoted from dog walker to body guard. When did that happen?

I already got YSRN's house booked!!

[duckyvee]

Nope, it's not. Merriam Webster Online defines weird as "of strange or extraordinary character ". Dictionary.com defines it as "fantastic; bizarre". So yeah...strange, extraordinary, fantastic and bizarre pretty much describes my reaction. There is nothing wrong with being weird OR with thinking something is weird. It's just an opinion. My daughter's boyfriend has pink hair, guaged ears and tattoos everywhere. He's weird (see above definitions). But I just love him to pieces because he's sweet and kind and treats her (and me) well. But he's still weird. And so is the baby momma/baby daddy story.

So, then, it must come down to the individual, because what is bizarre to a person is based on their point of view. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just to clarify. Based on this definition of weird, to me the whole thing is unusual, but not weird. I don't find it to be at all bizarre. That's just my point of view. You know me, bookwhore.

That all being said, I'm really not that curious about it anymore.

[muskifest]

Re: Muski's Retreat Idea

Great idea and Santa Fe sounds good to me. Count me in. Any more takers? Just noticed that I have been promoted from dog walker to body guard. When did that happen?

I already got YSRN's house booked!!

Oh, YESSSS! (t/mSirRobin) Couchie, you and I could pick people up at the airport (Oakland) and then we could use my soccer mom van to take a load of FCA'rs and you could take some and...and....if people needed to have a place to stay between the airplane landing and the actual retreat at YSRN's they could camp out at Casa Muski and....and...we could fill up the multiple coolers at our house with beer and soda and waters and marguerita mix and and...we could burn candles and play music and and....

:nana: :me0: :09: :04: