#33: Let's all chant "I think it can! I think it can! I think it can!"

[djs111]

Well, just think - if Clay wanted to get rid of someone, he could just drown them in a swimming pool - because everybody KNOWS he won't ever ever ever go near one.

No one would pick Clay as a dad because he has allergies.

Clay would never go to that restaurant because they serve shellfish.

Heeee....I would really hate for those people to be on my jury if I was wrongly accused of something. They have as much imagination and ability to change and grow and adapt as the Maginot Line.

[justclay12]

I guess Ashton is considered cool because he acts just as stupid as all the other young men who act like they are 12. And personally I think him and Demi are more icky because I can't understand even someone his own age going for him, let alone someone who is about my age. I might like them young, but they have to at least act more mature than my son for me to be interested. And by the way, my son acts more mature than Ashton.

My son's favorite tracks are #1 and #12 too, and that is also how he identifies them, cuz god forbid he actually listens to the words. And I made him listen to the cd for my mother's day present since otherwise I may have been lucky to just get a card, which I don't need more of.

And did you have to use Jessica Simpson as an example. Just yuck.

[Gibby]

Also this, for anyone who is interested, since it doesn't seem to have been vaulted yet:

Today's E!News: http://www.mediafire.com/?nx2p3yttxcg

Thanks for bringing this over! It was fun to see all of Clay's various hairstyles. And it was cool that they spent a little bit of time talking about OMWH.

[Ansamcw]

2006 vs 2008....sorry to belabor the point but somehow this comparison kinda offended me.

Muski I can see that you are making a comparison cos you are seeing similarities...in source, media and fan reaction...but I still say they are totally different.

Source...the original source 2006 a sleazy psycho stalker; 2008...multiple unknown sources, but one confirmation from David's rep. The news agency that broke the stories are similar I grant you that.

media reaction...here I see a huge difference. 2006 this story stayed in gossip tabloid level because there was never any confirmation from Clay's camp. It was reported in local gossip columns but national news entertainment agencies like ET, AH, People stayed away. That is why it was right that Clay never gave a statement to deny this because that would've been reported nationally. This time...the reason why it spread nationally like this is because its People magazine that got a CONFIRMATION from David's rep. As much as I agree that the media is in the toilet...in this instance I don't blame them because this guy made the huge mistake of opening his big mouth in the first place. YES there is a REPORT that he retracted...but what did he retract? Was his retraction believable? I kinda suspect that cos at this time only one article mentioned this and as far as I know People didn't pull that story out or print a retraction. I also understand why the EX sister in laws statement was never reported anywhere else because I would consider that to be a less reliable...more third hand info than a media savvy official rep that should know enough when to keep their mouth shut. So in this instance I can see SOME attempt at responsible behavior from the media.

Fan reaction....is like night and day. 2006 huge majority of the fans were disgusted by the story and never believed any of it. No one was happy or rejoicing about it. The only ones happy were probably a fringe faction that keep pushing the Clay is gay agenda. BUT most fans were heartsick by it. This time the majority of the fans are in a wait and see mode but would be happy either way. YES some fans are upset and disappointed but I believe this is based on personal issues versus something intrinsically wrong or disgusting about the story. I see the disappointment coming from an incompatibility with THEIR view of Clay or they have issues with the age difference or the AI. But we also see a lot of people happy for clay and excited for the two of them. I think to me...equating the two reactions suggests that there is something wrong with being happy with this situation that it has to be questioned.

WORD to so many posts this morning. Djs...thanks for giving us your personal experiences with older women younger men. There shouldn't be some rule placed on who we should love. As long as both parties are consenting adults then love is love. Ten years ago one of my best friends was going out with a guy 10 years younger...one of my other friends was very disapproving of it because of the age difference. Well in just two years my disapproving friend had to eat her words cos she met her current husband who is also 10 years younger than her. She realized how wrong she was in putting an age limit to relationships and now they have been married 6 years and have a beautiful daughter together...and her husband even wrote an article in a womens magazine about his "cougar" that showed how much love and respect was in that relationship. So yeah a relationship between a 50 year old woman and a 30 year old man may be unusual but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with it.

I just never saw Clay as a conservative that believe a family should be a mom, dad and baby. He has said that he would like to have a wife and family but he never said thats the only family he would consider.

So explain, why is it okay for Clay's fans in the same age range as Jaymes to smut and lust after him, but when it possibly becomes reality that a 50 year-old maybe having a relationship with him; it is suddenly wierd or disgusting?

Because its not them?

[jamar1700]

Well...I'm still in the not-sure-any-of-this is-even-true-camp.

I can't form a real opinion on something that is as tenuous as what has been reported, thus far. Not that I think my opinions would stray very far from my norm.

Clay has a personal life .... I am sure of that.

Sadly I don't have anything to do with it...*pout*

*g*

That said I do not trust the media, in any of it's forms. Having been in the middle of a local news story that went on for several years I saw first hand how little regard there was for truth or verification. I would never assume something is verified or fact checked or vetted. Those people got fired 10 years ago at the expense of the bottom line. They need only "report" that something is being reported on a gossip site knowing full well that said gossip site has all of it's disclaimers in place. I doubt they even bother passing it through legal.

[justclay12]

It is interesting that such high emotions have arisen out of discussions based on a two facts that haven't even been officially confirmed by the parties concerned:

- That Jaymes Foster is pregnant, by artificial insemination

- That Clay Aiken is the father, by sperm donation

I have reached a point in my life where my views are based on this question: How does this hurt someone else? If it does not directly hurt another person, then it is no one's business. I have become more and more liberal because I have become more and more open to inclusion. There are so many things that I used to need to have fit into neat boxes with labels on them, but now, what I can't understand, I don't reject... at least not unless it is harmful to humanity.

Clay has never done a single thing to hurt me. On the contrary, he has given me so much joy. I will support Clay in every way possible, what he chooses to sing, who he chooses to love and even the color the chooses for his hair, even if my personal choice doesn't match his.

Clay will never be able to please everyone, so he might as well please himself.

This is exactly how I feel. Of course, there are some people who will say that they are being hurt because he is doing something that upsets them, but that is because of their unrealistic expectations, not because of something he has done.

[Clayzorback]

The story made it everywhere yesterday, and so it's not surprising that so many would have heard about it. However, I think the reason there's not much in the press today is that...well... there's really no new news. I suspect that the piece that was planned on Jaymes was changed--not because of Clay's PR firm--but because when the show really looked at it, they really didn't have enough interesting material on her. It's possible they couldn't find any video of her (Pop Stars was a long time ago) or they couldn't find anyone willing to talk about her on camera. All they really know is that she's a record producer, David Foster's sister, and former judge on a long-canceled reality show. She's not really a big enough name on her own. And quite frankly, unless Clay addresses the situation, by next week, the media will be on to another celebrity story and the baby story will be out of the public eye. Which may be what Jaymes and/or Clay's people are counting on. It's a huge deal to the Clay world, but to others, it's but a passing diversion.

But, as I said before, I have a feeling we'll eventually get a more direct answer. If it only involved Clay, I could imagine a continued refusal to comment. But because this involves Jaymes and her unborn child, I tend to think we'll hear something. In the past, he's always been quite deliberate in squelching rumors about people he cares about (i.e., his mother). If we never hear anything, to me, it would mean that he and James don't mind the public believing that the baby is his.

Like others, I think this is a very different situation than the other tabloid one.

That's the point I was trying to make. She isn't a known celebrity like Clay, or Demi Moore, or others and therefore it IS an odd pairing for some people. I may be the only fan out there who has not seen or heard any of it on my TV. Of course I didn't go looking for it. If it was Paris Hilton, or Angelina Jolie it would be covered for months. But it isn't. It's Jaymes Foster and most people don't know who she is. That's not being disrespectful to her it is just stating a truth.

[merrieeee]

have reached a point in my life where my views are based on this question: How does this hurt someone else? If it does not directly hurt another person, then it is no one's business. I have become more and more liberal because I have become more and more open to inclusion. There are so many things that I used to need to have fit into neat boxes with labels on them, but now, what I can't understand, I don't reject... at least not unless it is harmful to humanity.

Clay has never done a single thing to hurt me. On the contrary, he has given me so much joy. I will support Clay in every way possible, what he chooses to sing, who he chooses to love and even the color the chooses for his hair, even if my personal choice doesn't match his.

Clay will never be able to please everyone, so he might as well please himself.

This is exactly how I feel. Of course, there are some people who will say that they are being hurt because he is doing something that upsets them, but that is because of their unrealistic expectations, not because of something he has done.

One of the things that I am upset about is the talk of "damage control" What has been done here to warrant that?

This story , again if true, is not earth shattering except to the parties involved. His career will still go on unless he chooses otherwise. For goodness sake other stars have slept with underage kids, been filmed shooting up, assaulted people, spent time in jail and yet they continue to be idolized by many and have major careers.

Bottom line for me: Is he still gonna continue to sing pretty to me and am I going to have as much fun with my buds as always have! Yes I believe he is and I am and the rest well....I don't care!!

[laljeterfan]

Bringing over a post from yaknelle at CV which has made me cry- and now I'm actually having trouble stopping!

QUOTE(yaknelle @ May 31 2008, 08:28 AM)

I love this young man. This enigma named Clay Aiken, who posses a voice as close to a siren's song as I have ever known. A young man whose talent has yet to be completely defined, a man of faith, loyalty and love. A man who has taken his life back, and is making his own choices and living a life that will make a difference. I couldn't ask for more.

At my age, I don't need a role model. I need an inspiration. I found one, when I found Clay Aiken. I saw one on top of the Shubert marquee. I'm here for the duration.

[Cotton]

And while I'm not usually one to bother with stupid polls, this one makes my blood boil and I would love to see "he is a good singer" beat the other options.

http://news.aol.com/the-rewind/?feature=20080529152809990001

I see progress was made on this overnight so I am back to voting on this. At least until 9:30 when I go to the gym. Ouch!

Does this mean we can vote on this one more than once, and it will count?

pffft!

I think we could vote, delete cookies and refresh all day long and not make progress against the FREAKS!

The numbers I see have changed 1 percentage point since last night. Instead of Freaks=45/Good Singer=39, it's Freaks=45/Good Singer=40.

Ack!

I love Clay - but I just can't give hours to this and I think that's what it would take.

Who are these FREAKS to whom it's so important to have Clay join their little FREAKCLICK?

I feel sorry for people. Really. I do.

On the other hand, have streamed OMWH some and it seems like that is a positive!

Crazy world, y'all!

[djs111]

Just wanted to mention that I am not fond of the term "cougar" because it implies stalking or something. In any of my relationships with much younger men, they initiated the contact or the situation - I was QUITE reserved and cautious until I was sure of intentions and sincerity.

And one of my favorite compliments, to this day, was given by an acerbic 30 year old English contractor named Tudor. A crowd of us were having some Big Biers in a Den Haag restaurant after a really fun dinner with lots of joking and conversation and laughter...Tudor announced to all that he wanted to find someone just like me - only his age (I was 46). There was a kind of silence, and then he added that he had come to realise that someone his age could not possibly be like me, so he was just going to brood about the fact that Colin (my New Zealand sweetie) had snapped me up. (There was really none of that kind of attraction between us, Tudor just appreciated my sarcasm, no, wait, witty repartee.)

It was a tortuous and typical Tudor compliment, his first words to me - in a meeting - when I came over from Florida were "I can't really suss out why you are here" (I had been hired into the software group two weeks earlier and did not know much about it as yet). So it was cool.

But anyway, cougar almost seems like a bit of a left-handed compliment to me. Reminds me of Samantha from SATC or something.

Clayzorback, I see what you mean in your post just now, but I still think describing Jaymes as a "downgrade" is insulting.

Clay is just keeping up with the Joneses

It just seems to me that would be sort of like, well, downgrading. Friends I can see, but not lovers or wedding material.

I would just hope that if and when he ever becomes a father, for real, that it is for all the right reasons and not for publicity, or to enhance his chances of becoming one of the "cool" kids.

These pretty insulting sentiments were expressed as your feelings, not what the media might think. Hence the reactions you got. I took your comments as saying you felt Jaymes was not a good enough partner, not comments on what the media might be thinking.

[kimiye]

I've been telling people my life got a lot easier when I decided to stop trying to be a hot young chick and started working on being a cool old lady. Now I find out from djs that I should have been trying for hot old lady!

Another shout out to the eHP-- after talking to my sister, Saturday midday sounds just as good or better than Wed or Thur nights-- so whatever y'all can work out, just let me know! I'm going Monday to buy out the store on Cheez Doodles!

[ivy]

The people who feel Clay has somehow betrayed them - all I can think about that is WTF? What he does in his personal life is none of their business, it is bizarre.

Yep. This is what I've been trying to say too. I'm usually a very sympathetic/empathic person, but I think this fandom wore me out a long time ago with a lot of the whining and negativity from some. Most of the time I can see both sides of a situation, but in this instance, I have nothing but acceptance for Clay's private life, and think is bizarre for others to have such strong negative feelings about this subject. JIMO.

[merrieeee]

I've been telling people my life got a lot easier when I decided to stop trying to be a hot young chick and started working on being a cool old lady. Now I find out from djs that I should have been trying for hot old lady!

Another shout out to the eHP-- after talking to my sister, Saturday midday sounds just as good or better than Wed or Thur nights-- so whatever y'all can work out, just let me know! I'm going Monday to buy out the store on Cheez Doodles!

Ooooo Saturday works for me too! See I'm easy.......no wait I'm not that easy!!

[jmh123]

aikim-- I just think some fans don't want Clay to be with anyone , period. They're jealous. Having said that, I certainly agree with your perception of the situation. I had an old magazine in the bathroom that told the story of Bruce Willis going on vacation with Ashton and Demi and the kids. Turn that situation around and substitute Jaymes for Bruce Willis and you'll see it's all doable to have a blended family. I only posted that because people are stupidly saying that Clay could never have a regular family of his own. Honestly, lots of the families in this day and time are blended, anyway.

Agreed. I have no idea why so many fans leaped immediately to the conclusion that this meant that Clay would never have a regular marriage, or was giving up on the idea.

[Couch Tomato]

Duckyvee..I agree with you about teh all american family box. I am considered weird because I am a single never married woman in my 40's..STILL. I never wanted kids because although I am a very loving person I have no patience. I've been told over and over that if they were mine, things would be different. Well, I have no interest in proving anyone right or wrong on that.

I think it's ok for emotions to be all over the place on this. I'm very cool on seeing honest reactions on this; I think it makes for great covo myself. What little I've seen anyway is prety darn impressive. I think ClayNation, for as diverse as this fandom is is doing pretty ok. And on a lesser level, with my friends that I share this thing with everyday..I really want them to trust enough to just say what they feel.

AIKim (trying not to think artificial insemination kim hee)...you make a good point. But I will make a little distiction. I can't say that I've seen a correlation between smutters and reaction - HOWEVER - when it comes to Clay there is a deeper level that goes on then mere smut. I mean have ya'll READ his myspace? I could only take it one time...there was lots of intimate talkt here...good night my darling and such. A good fantasy about a hot guy is fine with me because I do think for the most part folks know..ain't gonna happen. But when you go to his myspace and talk to him like a lover? I'm sorry but to me THAT is weird. And I normally embrace weird.

Ansa I agree with most of what you said...except what Jamar said below here.

That said I do not trust the media, in any of it's forms. Having been in the middle of a local news story that went on for several years I saw first hand how little regard there was for truth or verification. I would never assume something is verified or fact checked or vetted. Those people got fired 10 years ago at the expense of the bottom line. They need only "report" that something is being reported on a gossip site knowing full well that said gossip site has all of it's disclaimers in place. I doubt they even bother passing it through legal.

I only read a few of the articles but every single one said...according to People, According to Access Hollywood, According to E! Entertainment... that way I don't believe they check anything. I'm sure Access Hollywood said According to E! and E! said According to Access Hollywood..so to me this still comes down to TMZ.

YAY it's saturday!

[Couch Tomato]

So, one question... I agree about the term cougar..but why are we not considered cougars which seem to be the cool term for claymate?

OK, THIS is hilarious... they showed in on ESPN news and I found it on youtube..if you want a laugh... RATED G.

[cha cha trusty]

Go to sleep Cotton, you make perfect sense. It is a treasure to be held close.

I just realized that you can imbed the AOL videos to get them more hits as well. Anyone up for it. I am starting a web page, this may not be done soon,. So far, I only have half my Sadie memorial page done, noe I am starting another Clay page and need to draw people to me, we will see If I can come up with a name.

But imbedding the video is a good thing!

play, the AOL vids are embedded on my web page. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

So you think they should go on blogs and myspace pages too?

ON MY WAY HERE AOL SESSIONS

Plus I played them all day yesterday!!

[keepingfaith]

The topic is of the moment is about things that disgust us? *Oooh, pick me, pick me!*

Things I find classy:

- great friends caring for each other, helping each other, standing by each other

- people wanting others to be happy

- people waiting to verify news

- Clay never using the word "weird" in relation to his fans no matter how much we drool over his body parts or smut like there's no tomorrow or post embarrassingly lovey-dovey comments on his blog without regard for our "status/standing" in comparison to him

Things I find skivvy:

*nevermind*

I love you, Scarlett!!! To me, what's weird is how so many fans take this news/rumor personally -- like Clay's decision to father a child has disrupted their lives. That's what's weird.

If this situation was between Ashton Kuchar and Demi Moore there would still be the ::wink, wink, nudge, nudge:: from the media but it would be of the "way to go Ashton" variety and there would be high fives all around. Why because Ashton Kuchar is cool and Clay Aiken is not!

Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore are just the latest ....

Poor Yoko, what she went through -- not in the tabloids, but in the MAIN ASS MEDIA ALL OVER THE WORLD FOR YEARS AND YEARS!

Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn -- I think Goldie had a baby in her mid-late-40's.

Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon -- I think when they hooked up he was about 29 and she was 42 or 43. They're still together after twenty years and a couple of kids. I'm sure somebody thought it was weird. Happily for them and their children, they didn't give a fuck.

[Most of the time I can see both sides of a situation, but in this instance, I have nothing but acceptance for Clay's private life, and think is bizarre for others to have such strong negative feelings about this subject. JIMO.

Some think it's weird, and some like me think that thinking it's weird is weird. Of course, I lived for over 14 years with a much younger man, so it's not some crazy alien concept for me. The younger men today are nothing like the men my age. NOTHING. Not everybody wants, or could even live with a white-picket-fence existence. What is a dream for some would be a horror for others. If you didn't have a conventional dream life growing up, I can understand why it would be something sought after. But, if you grew up with the white picket fence, there's a good chance you could be interested in pursuing a less conventional and structured life.

Regarding discussion of the "downhome" picture -- what jumped out immediately upon seeing that almost two years ago is not that Clay and Jaymes are lusting after each other, but that he brought her into his family. What I heard back then, and I don't remember where and I can't vouch for it, is that this picture was taken at Clay's step-sister's house in that little NC town where Ray's family came from and where Jamie lives. Jaymes wasn't there as his executive producer since it looks like they've been berry-picking along the railroad tracks, or working on the tractor. What I see in that picture is that Jaymes Foster is FAMILY.

I can't abide reading ONE MORE TIME about Clay being so nice to donate some sperm to her in her time of need. Whatever is going on here, this is NOT about the benevolent Clay tossing a wiggler her way. Whatever they have, it's good enough to have a child together -- because apparently they made that decision.

And the last thing I'll say about that relationship is this personal anecdote that I never discuss with anyone. The one man in my life that I loved beyond the ability to understand it and for which words have always failed -- we never had sex. When we accidentally touched I thought I would disintegrate. And when we happen to see each other (a few times through the years) our eyes dance, our faces light up, our words drip with significance, and we both understand that the love with never die. It's other-worldly somehow. I've felt blessed and privileged to have known such love that seems to be on another plane of existence. Crazy, huh? I'm sure a lot of people probably think that's weird. Like I care.

[aikim]

I think Clay has always been open and honest about his views and he has never cast himself as an ultra conservative...re-read LTS; he pretty much laid out his views there and it was pretty obvious that he is quite liberal in his thinking.

The problem; as I see it; is the fans who took certain things he said, overlooked others and then made him a poster boy for their particular moral code...not fair to Clay at all.

Oh and Couchie; I rather have the artificial insemination attachment to my name than American Idol!

Kim

[Ansamcw]

Just wanted to mention that I am not fond of the term "cougar" because it implies stalking or something. In any of my relationships with much younger men, they initiated the contact or the situation - I was QUITE reserved and cautious until I was sure of intentions and sincerity.

I understand this and I personally am not comfortable with with the term either. Both friends I mentioned lives in the Philippines...and the term "cougar" has evolved in the popular culture there such that it now connotes a strong attractive woman who knows what she wants who has a younger male partner. I don;t know how it is used here in North America cos I was not familiar with it until I visited the Philippines. I also have to add that both my friends with younger male partners didn't go after them either. They had a lot of personal reservations and these guys had to go through a lot of hoops to prove they were worthy or at least mature enough for a relationship.

oh clarification...about my statement at SOME media responsibility...I meant that at least People got a confirmation although its stupid to rely on Davids rep cos he is not really directly involved. I also think that its this confirmation that Allowed some agencies to run with the story.

BTW...never considered this could be a possibility when it was only TMZ reporting it. Only thought it could be real when the rep from David confirmed it. Now with that other article with another source that is not directly involve...I just don't know what to think. I;m prepared for it being true or not although I have to admit the longer Clay's camp keeps quiet about it...the more I tend to believe it.

[justclay12]

Can someone tell me how to find these younger men who are attracted to older women, cuz I want one? And I got to say that I agree with most of the posts on here, even at the OFC, although the ones I don't agree with just drive me right thru the roof. Really want to smack some people over there.

[djs111]

Couch Tomato asked:

So, one question... I agree about the term cougar..but why are we not considered cougars which seem to be the cool term for claymate?

Because we are all fat desperate old ladies, you silly girl!

Can someone tell me how to find these younger men who are attracted to older women, cuz I want one?

It is not so much younger men attracted to older women - it is younger men who disregard age as a prerequisite for taking a relationship further.

Everybody is different, is all, and there are just more guys around who are only attracted to women their own age or younger. I think part of it is societal norm, and part is just how humans are intrinsically wired in order to guarantee there will be more humans.

[playbiller]

Eh quoting is an off and on thing with me at this site, currently not working.

I am with Jamar in we just don't know any real facts. As far as I know we are all being led down the garden path. I am just as upset with people assuming there is a physical relationship as those that are squicked out. What ever people assume, it is still about Clay's private life and there are no facts around. The facttghat it became a media circus again, I lay blame on the obsessed - the fans and the not a fans and the idiocy of what psses for media in this country. What a sham.

I think I am turning crotchety.

ON a positive note - Thank you Chacha for embedding the AOl videos. If anyone needs help finding the cold, jutst let me know - why should we have to do all the work of watching the videos over and over? Anyway, my push to get people to embed the music player on Myspace has produced results the plays on OMWH are now in the middle 90s and well on the way to 100K, next stop - 500k! I appreciate everyone helping with this little project. We fans are powerful people, we just need a little direction on what is important - right now the single OMWH is important!

[Scarlett]

Just wanted to mention that I am not fond of the term "cougar" because it implies stalking or something. In any of my relationships with much younger men, they initiated the contact or the situation - I was QUITE reserved and cautious until I was sure of intentions and sincerity.

I understand this and I personally am not comfortable with with the term either. Both friends I mentioned lives in the Philippines...and the term "cougar" has evolved in the popular culture there such that it now connotes a strong attractive woman who knows what she wants who has a younger male partner. I don;t know how it is used here in North America cos I was not familiar with it until I visited the Philippines. I also have to add that both my friends with younger male partners didn't go after them either. They had a lot of personal reservations and these guys had to go through a lot of hoops to prove they were worthy or at least mature enough for a relationship.

*utter dumbfounded look* I also know someone and didn't even realize it! My closest cousin is 5 years older than I am because I was born "between generations" and I remember now that she married a guy who went to my high school -- only he was a freshman when I was an outgoing senior. Thinking about them, they probably didn't fuss about the "social impact" either. In their case, they were both very active in the underground movement during the Marcos years and I'm guessing that living on the run while working on a cause that's very dear to you creates a special bond.

But I can't believe I completely didn't even think about it until Ansa mentioned people from the Philippines. *slaps forehead* My cousin was right here in the US a couple of weeks ago for a Women's Health seminar at the UN, and we were on the phone for hours and hours just chatting away about our lives (oh ok, mostly my life because it's all about meee!) and nothing even clicked for me; didn't think about him/them beyond pausing to ask, "so how is <her dh's name>?"

I'm just mystified that I completely didn't see it or think about it until I read Ansa's post! *still shaking head* Do you think this is a genetic thing or it's because of something we're taught as we grow up? I'm very curious about the different reactions, especially after realizing that I'm very blissfully unaware (ok clueless) about people's way of thinking.