#42: We're still having fun, and you're still the one!

[Cotton]

Can someone please give me a recommendation for quality cellophanes or whatever material is used in good protective sleeves for my magazines? Some of the so-called sheet protectors aren't very good and the print sticks to them. And .... where can I get the good stuff? I know you librarians know!

Google for archival containers. If you want your magazines to last a long time, you want acid free sleeves or acid free boxes. It's more expensive. But putting fiber (paper) in plastic - even good plastic - may hasten the demise of your goodies. Unless it's the type museums use in their archives.

I worked in the Greensboro Historical Museum for a few years and learned just enough to be dangerous!

That's why they don't leave Clay's AI clothes on exhibit all the time. Nothing to do with "popularity" and everything to do with preservation.

Light really damages textiles, too.

I would hope that Clay isn't the same person people fell in love with 5 years ago!!!!

People grow and change and become adults in their 20s (well, some take a few decades longer), so they SHOULD be different.

God, I'd hate to think I was stuck at age 23. I was an idiot.

(OK, I admit some people think I still AM.)

Jesus.

Good Grief!

There she goes with the Jesus talk again!!!

[keepingfaith]

I feel like quoting scripture tonight. Indulge me, I promise to never let it happen again.

Matthew, Chapter 10:

12 And when ye come into a house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

************

The incredible Matthew, Chapter 7:

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them for this is the law and the prophets.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[HeidiHo]

Great post, Couchie, and a couple parts resonated with me.

I'm mostly struggling with the fact that I don't understand my friends who insist that he is lying about lying. I can understand their emotion but I can't understand that it's so volatile and angry and that it has escaped the bounds of the OFC and he is being called liar all over the internet. I can't understand why there is no empathy for Clay - or if there is, it doesn't supercede their "hurt" or why it matters that they- a nameless faceless fan - is being called an idiot for not having known. And I don't understand why Clay now must address leading them on or why there are lists of every time he did so, down to smiling at a girl or dancing with a fan.

NONE of that was a lie. That was still Clay. That wasn’t him acting or lying. The people we are talking about seem to view everything in black and white, right and wrong. Nothing is ever THAT simple.

That's why I actually have a harder time with people who are holding on to the anger because they feel duped and they're being called stupid and it's not our fault we believed it. And now he better apologize before I begin to get past this. So this thing has affected me too and if we are going to go out doling out understanding and patience - then a little needs to be directed my way too. They need to understand why I can't be all supportive of them when I see wounding words directed at Clay like he has committed some heinous crime. I challenge anyone to stand up to the scrutiny and ridicule that I'm sure that he knew was to come and still be courageous enough to take that leap. Walk a mile in his shoes or just a few steps.

Amen. I said this the other day – the people begging for understanding need to be willing to listen and to understand us as well. It’s a two way street.

couchie, loved your rant. I've been feeling a lot of emotions today. Part of it is because of work; annabear, I didn't throw up, but I cried several times in my office alone. But that's for another time. The other part pretty much as couchie said -- I love Clay and have no problems with the past week at all, but I feel so much frustration in the fandom that it's wearing me down. I too understand where many are having problems, even if I don't like it. I have family members who are staunchly conservative in this regard, and may very likely shun me because I love Clay (whereas they didn't before all that much). And yet, I want this world to see that homosexuals can be loving human beings, and helpful, and smart, and should not be discriminated against. I just can't figure out the way exactly to get those that turn against gays to see that; is there truly a way? I guess that's what I find so frustrating -- I want this world perfect, and I know it can't be.

And now I think I'm going to go cry again.

{{{ldyjocelyn}}} Despite how I may sound on the boards some times, I believe that people are generally good. I believe that the younger generation is way more tolerant that past generations, even more so than MY generation. I believe that that tolerance will increase with each generation. I believe that men like Clay will ultimately make a positive difference in the world because of who they are and how they behave. I believe Clay has already made a difference. I believe Clay is *happy* and because of his talent makes other people happy. I believe it is up to us to educate our friends who are less understanding – because I believe people are generally good, I think it is possible that we underestimate some of them. I was surprised this past week by the reactions I got from people who know I love Clay. They liked what he had to say. Clay does put a human face on homosexuality; you read his biography (no, not Learning to Sing, I’m being general) and there is a whole lot more to him than his sexuality. I challenge any of those people who may shun you to be as good a person as Clay is or tries to be – do they realize that? Maybe they will, if you tell them. I believe that much of the bigotry we see is unconscious and habit. That if called on it, people will *think* about what they are saying. Of course there are some who will never budge – but maybe some will. If not, take comfort in the young, is my motto.

There are people out there who are absolute shits, no doubt. And they seem to congregate on the internet because it is a vehicle for them to be vile yet faceless and nameless – some of Clay’s own fans fit this category and they have for a while. I believe that the internet is a breeding ground for the *extremes* of society. Don’t make the mistake of thinking it accurately reflects society – that WILL make you cry.

I hope he doesn't enable them.

Just curious...and I've had this dialog with myself too...but what if he does? Reading Jaymes' rant of a few days ago, with her talking about him caring an awful lot about what the fans think makes me wonder. At this point, I want him to stay true to himself (as he has shown us so much in the past week), but it will be interesting if he does address this. He's really damned if he does, damned if he doesn't, in so many ways.

No, not really damned – only to some fans. What Jaymes was saying, IMO, is that Clay is a really good person. Period. I think he’s shown that time and again. He most likely will forgive them and (god forbid, IMO) may apologize for distressing them. I think the man gets slack for however he may respond because he’s the one under attack. It’s up to him to deal with this how he sees fit, even if we don’t like it. At the end of the day, the man has everything he seems to want. He’s healthy, he has a child, and he has a BFF that sure fits the definition of soul mate. That man has it better than many of his fans do. And good for him – he deserves it.

[cindilu2]

Ack, I said something else was most frustrating earlier - but you reminded me of something that bugs me even more. That any interactions he's had with women are now suspect?? OMFG. I mean really - oh my fucking god. The guy is a flirt - he's had a whole lot of women friends his whole life - he's a touchy/huggy guy. It boggles my mind that fans would question that. I'm sorry - other people will have to be Ghandi. I just want to slap somebody.

[HeidiHo]

Ack, I said something else was most frustrating earlier - but you reminded me of something that bugs me even more. That any interactions he's had with women are now suspect?? OMFG. I mean really - oh my fucking god. The guy is a flirt - he's had a whole lot of women friends his whole life - he's a touchy/huggy guy. It boggles my mind that fans would question that. I'm sorry - other people will have to be Ghandi. I just want to slap somebody.

I think it's ignorance more than anything else. Maybe I am being "Ghandi" but maybe if we TELL people that they are being silly they will recognize it. There are a lot of people that just don't know....and there are quite a few that are just purposely being assholes. But there has to me some out there that just don't know. I guess I would temper my response to that stuff based on who I was talking to.

[wandacleo]

Ack, I said something else was most frustrating earlier - but you reminded me of something that bugs me even more. That any interactions he's had with women are now suspect?? OMFG. I mean really - oh my fucking god. The guy is a flirt - he's had a whole lot of women friends his whole life - he's a touchy/huggy guy. It boggles my mind that fans would question that. I'm sorry - other people will have to be Ghandi. I just want to slap somebody.

This shows such a profound ignorance of gays.

Gay does not equal woman hater.

[ldyjocelyn]

cindilu and Heidi -- :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Oh heck, :F_05BL17blowkiss: to all my FCA friends. You guys are good people.

:F_05BL17blowkiss: to Clay, Parker, and Jaymes too. Clay...you are one strong person. Love you for that.

[lilyshine]

Can someone please give me a recommendation for quality cellophanes or whatever material is used in good protective sleeves for my magazines? Some of the so-called sheet protectors aren't very good and the print sticks to them. And .... where can I get the good stuff? I know you librarians know!

Mylar is the word to look for. That's the brand name for one of the best sheet protectors. University Products is good and here are a couple more sources.

Gaylord

Hollinger

Metal edge

Check how close they are to you as shipping can be very expensive.

Having given you that info, I would suggest not using any plastic. Just buy an appropriately sized archival box and keep them there. Any plastic, even mylar, can create more problems than it prevents especially if it is kept in an area that is not climate controlled to within +_ 2 degrees of relative humidity. If you are in an area with high humidty do NOT use any plastic.

If you need more info, PM me. Yes, this was my profession for many years.

[cindilu2]

Ack, I said something else was most frustrating earlier - but you reminded me of something that bugs me even more. That any interactions he's had with women are now suspect?? OMFG. I mean really - oh my fucking god. The guy is a flirt - he's had a whole lot of women friends his whole life - he's a touchy/huggy guy. It boggles my mind that fans would question that. I'm sorry - other people will have to be Ghandi. I just want to slap somebody.

I think it's ignorance more than anything else. Maybe I am being "Ghandi" but maybe if we TELL people that they are being silly they will recognize it. There are a lot of people that just don't know....and there are quite a few that are just purposely being assholes. But there has to me some out there that just don't know. I guess I would temper my response to that stuff based on who I was talking to.

You know, I could agree with this if we were talking about strangers - but these are long time fans who should just f**king know better. We've watched this guy on stage and interacting with people for five years. To question his 'motives' behind being friendly and affectionate and flirty - from fans - is just plain shitty in my opinion. They are not just saying - oh I didn't think a gay man would flirt (the ones who are, are not who I'm talking about - just like the people genuinely struggling are not the bitches I want to see gone) - it's just one more weapon they're using to prove him a 'liar'. That's what sticks in my craw.

[Claygasm]

Has this been posted?

From CV via CH:

From Rosie's blog...

Dakota Writes:

Hi Ro,

I was one of the Clay Aiken fans that believed his magazine, TV, interviews where he said he was not gay. I so understand why he did what he did but I am worried about his career. A lot of his fans are having a VERY hard time. I sure would like your take on this. (Maybe this post would not be so good to be on your Q&A but thought I would ask). I love both you and Clay!!

i love clay

for all the reasons u do

he is the same soul today

as he has always been

i believe love allows light

Wise words for everyone.

I wonder if Clay confided in her awhile ago and if she offered him any advise.....

[justclay12]

Thank you for bringing Rosie's blog over. I've always been a fan of hers and never had a problem with her like some did because while she can be extremely vocal and opinionated, she is a very kind, accepting person. Plus, I personally agree with her most of the time. She's always been very supportive of Clay, which I appreciate. Didn't agree with her on the Kelly thing as far as homophobia, just though Kelly was an asshole. Haven't watched that show since, even though I love Regis, and I won't unless Clay decides to appear on there. Hopefully it will be on a day she's not there so I don't have to listen to her.

[Desertrose]

Clay was very wise to allow the venting on the OFC. As for those who are abusing his generosity, IMO they need to get a life. I get the feeling that this is their moment in the sun, and they are filled with a self importance about their opinions that most people don't give a a flying fig about. IMO, they need to let it go and get the hell out of this fandom. It seems like for them, it was never about Clay, just about them.

For the fans that are genuinely hurting, Clay gave them the opportunity to talk about and express how they really felt. How many people would do that? From these fans, Clay will become even stronger than he already is when he reads how they are processing through their own filters. IMO Clay will use this input for his own personal growth. He has always seemed to me to thrive from adversity IMO.

[claytonic]

I don't know how these kids graduated from high school.

Oh, I do. As a first year teacher I had to appear before the school board when I refused to change a 'senior' student's final grade from an F to a D when the superintendent 'asked' me to. How dare I! After all, the student had only missed 42 days of school, had never come to class prepared, couldn't write a paragraph with punctuation, and the only tests he ever passed were the rare multiple choice ones I gave (versus writing answers). I'd only asked for parent/counselor conferences multiple times throughout the year and had only asked twice for help directly from my principal. I'd merely offered many times to stay after school with the student to help. I'd obviously not done enough, even after going to the elementary school to talk with some of his previous teachers to get some insight and some resources for him.

But see...it LOOKS bad statistically when students don't 'graduate'. Bad for the school, the principal, the district. And after all, who the hell did I think I was? A first year teacher questioning the system? So they decided to 'show' me! Basically, I 'went to court'---the school board as my judge and jury. The STUDENT was not being asked to defend himself. Eleven years of his previous teachers who'd passed him to the next level each year weren't being asked to explain themselves. I was required to justify why I felt it necessary to deprive him of the right to walk down the aisle to collect his diploma 'with his friends'--why I felt it was my right to do so in my first year of teaching, in his last year of school, after eleven years of educators before me felt it appropriate to pass him.

Oh...believe me, I know how kids like that graduate. And as I ride the public bus and see some of the signs on storefronts, the articles written online and in print---even on the television screen, I know functional illiteracy is still a problem. [/rantonthestateofeducationtoday]

Well, I hear similar stories here too. In fact, your experience reminds me of a neighbour's 17 year old daughter. When I helped her with an assignment, I was totally speechless at the errors in one relatively short essay. She had creative ability but I couldn't see that initially because I was totally distracted by spelling and grammatical errors in every single sentence. Her mother blamed her teachers, her school, the educational system, etc. I (mainly) blame the parents. A child's education is a partnership between the educational system and the parents. The only constant throughout the child's 12 years of school is the parents, and I can't believe a child can get to high school without the parents noticing that their child cannot write a simple sentence at the age of 13. Money spent on private tuition for a child who is struggling at school is the best investment any parent can make, and it isn't just literacy skills the child will gain from, it is confidence and self-esteem that will impact his/her entire life.

There are discussions under way about teachers being paid according to ability, and that is the best idea I have ever heard of.

I know someone who teaches 8 year olds. No child leaves her class at the end of the year without being able to read and write at least to the standard required. She picks up where previous teachers have failed, mainly due to indifference.

I have a friend who is a high school science teacher. I have met most of her colleagues at her dinner parties and I can tell you, some of them laugh about sticking a video on in class on days they don't feel like teaching, and they do it at the drop of a hat. My friend, however, is a brilliant, dedicated teacher. I have seen the letters her students and former students have written to her, telling her that they owe their success to her. Some of the kids at school choose biology class just because that's her field and she is high in demand for after-school-hours private tuition. Even for her own kids, she hired other tutors for after-school tuition, not because they were below standard but because she wanted them to achieve their maximum potential. Today, both her kids are accomplished in their field of health-care, her son being a doctor. (To be fair, her kids did have a genetic advantage from both sides of the family).

Muski, I am not discrediting what you said about the educational system because, of course, you are right... but what happened to that kid need not have happened there had been some parental responsibility in monitoring the child's progress at school. I know children from migrant families who don't speak English at home, yet their English language ability is above average, despite the fact their parents lack education and stumble with spoken English. The difference is that the parents, though lacking in education themselves, are smart enough to know that after love, food and a roof over their child's head, education comes before anything else. Of course, there's a downside to parents who push their kids a direction against their will. I know someone, as the only son in a large family, had a nervous breakdown shortly after setting up his medical practice. It wasn't what he wanted, it was what his parents wanted for him and he felt he had to please his parents. It's tough.

ETA: As for the neighbour's 17 year old daughter, she got a government job... and they sent her to (tax-payer funded) classes to improve her literacy skills.....

[keepingfaith]

That's an interesting perspective, DR. However, I doubt Clay needs an education on fear and loathing. It's probably all too familiar to him -- so much so that he thinks he can take it. It breaks my heart that he, or anyone else, ever has to.

Thank you, thank you LdyJ, Cotton and Lilyshine! Wow, there's a lot more to this archival business than I first imagined. I didn't realize this was going to involve science!

[Couch Tomato]

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr whatever. Why do we need these type of assurances. I don't even think that question is an accurate representation of the fandom.

I think it's ignorance more than anything else. Maybe I am being "Ghandi" but maybe if we TELL people that they are being silly they will recognize it. There are a lot of people that just don't know....and there are quite a few that are just purposely being assholes. But there has to me some out there that just don't know. I guess I would temper my response to that stuff based on who I was talking to.

Ok this resonated with me. At some point in my life I went to work for what had been a family owned business. It was in the family from the early 1900s. A large corporation swallowed it up in the 80s and really forced it to change a lot of its closed minded attitudes on the corporate level. On a personal level shortly after I started I went over to one woman and asked to borrow her lotion cuz I was a bit ashy. And you know whats she said to me? I didn't know black people got ashy. We had natural oils in our skin. I had to swallow my tongue. I came to realize she was just ignorant. She didn't know any better. She had never been around black people although living in one of the most ethnically diverse places on the planet. We became the best of friends. But it took time to get there.

[Cotton]

I couldn't take my mind off this stuff all day long for some reason. It made me think and when it comes to this fandom I stopped thinking 2 years ago and just started enjoying it so this might not come out quite the way it is in my head.

<snip>

I'm mostly struggling with the fact that I don't understand my friends who insist that he is lying about lying. I can understand their emotion but I can't understand that it's so volatile and angry and that it has escaped the bounds of the OFC and he is being called liar all over the internet. I can't understand why there is no empathy for Clay - or if there is, it doesn't supercede their "hurt" or why it matters that they- a nameless faceless fan - is being called an idiot for not having known. And I don't understand why Clay now must address leading them on or why there are lists of every time he did so, down to smiling at a girl or dancing with a fan.

I hated to snip any of that, but wanted to thank you for your thoughtful post. All of it. And I, too, have the hardest time with the bolded complaint. Talk about picking the nit! Sheesh!

WTF do they think the "closet" is? And he's already, in a sense, apologized by saying he understands some will take it hard.

But I really appreciated your sharing part of your personal journey to where you are now! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

ldyjocelyn

OTOH...so we have something make fun of, although I think it's kind of cool in a very weird way...Cameocat at CV found this: Clay's latest fugly, the gray hoodie. The reason I think it looks kinda neat isn't because of that silly pouch, it just looks like it's really, really soft material. I know I'm alone on this one though....

No! Not alone. I like it...I want to touch it! It reminds me of the blue shirt of clingy goodness. *sigh*

I like the grey shirt precisely because of the unusual cut and details. It looks expensive to me, and it makes me happy to see Clay wearing expensive designer clothes.

I like it, too. And, yeah, I'd like to run my hand down his arm or across those shoulders of his while he's wearing it.

Think he'd mind?

I feel like quoting scripture tonight. Indulge me, I promise to never let it happen again.

Matthew, Chapter 10:

12 And when ye come into a house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

************

The incredible Matthew, Chapter 7:

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them for this is the law and the prophets.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

heh

I feel like I'm back in Godspell!

I can see the sawhorses and planks being moved into different positions as I read each verse!!!

I was in Godspell twice. The second time, I overheard the director telling someone he was directing the oldest living cast of Godspell!

I was 27 the first time I did the show. And my DS went to rehearsals with me. I was no longer nursing, he was holding his head up while watching his little world from his position on his belly.

And one of the cast members, a Jewish gal, picked him up and he began bobbing his little head around her chest. She laughed and told him, "Sorry, Honey, All the wells of Israel have gone dry."

I thought I'd DIE!

She also asked me how the hell I could breathe out of my tiny excuse for a nose!

I must have been close to 40 when I did the show the second time.

I'd do it again tomorrow if given half a chance.

I think Godspell comes the closest to how I actually feel/believe than any church I've ever attended. Maybe that makes me a Heathen!

My first Godspell was also my first encounter with a Gay man. I had no clue. I was married with a baby and had no clue.

I loved the guy, though. He did a pencil drawing of each of us for the playbill cover. I'll always love him for giving me the long lovely neck I've never had! He made me feel pretty with that drawing.

How's that for a random trip down memory lane?!

Scarlett, I found my Godspell Playbill from London!

Wyndham's Theatre. But it's in a frame and I can't see the date. Had to be between '69 and '72, though. DS has my record. I need to get that thing transferred to a CD somehow.

[Desertrose]

Has this been posted?

From CV via CH:

From Rosie's blog...

Dakota Writes:

Hi Ro,

I was one of the Clay Aiken fans that believed his magazine, TV, interviews where he said he was not gay. I so understand why he did what he did but I am worried about his career. A lot of his fans are having a VERY hard time. I sure would like your take on this. (Maybe this post would not be so good to be on your Q&A but thought I would ask). I love both you and Clay!!

i love clay

for all the reasons u do

he is the same soul today

as he has always been

i believe love allows light

Wise words for everyone.

I wonder if Clay confided in her awhile ago and if she offered him any advise.....

I am a big fan of Rosie. When she defended Clay against Ripa, the words she used upset a lot of Clay fans because they felt that she had misspoken and called Clay gay. Afterwords, she said on the View that she and Clay spoke often, that they had been talking and that he understood what she was trying to say. I got the feeling that she was giving him advise, not necessarily about being gay, but just being supportive of him. Now, that Clay has the same publicist that Rosie does, I wonder if he confided in her and if Rosie had anything to do with him getting that publicist or if he had that publicist before. I thought I had read somewhere that his publicist was male.

IMO Rosie is supportive of Clay, and I am glad that they are friends. Rosie, even with her abandonment issues, is a good person.

[Cotton]

Have any of you ever read Rosie's book, Find Me?

It's a good read. She lost her mother at such a critical time for a girl. And though all I have to go on is her side of the story, he did not handle things well at all. No help to those kids after losing their mom.

There's plenty of reason for her to have issues. She talks about feeling like she was encased in mud. She may have even said clay.

It's remarkable she has been able to rise above it all. Even though she has some rough edges, I think she's a good person.

I need to reread the book. It's short, but she goes back and forth in time and skimming got me nowhere. I was going to try to find where she talked about the clay.

Anybody else remember?

[Ansamcw]

I think when I read what some people are upset about...like he lied or that he said he didn't lie or she said it was the fans fault...etc. what struck me is that a lot of the anger is based on interpretations of what he said ...not on his actual words.

I also think that Clay was simply living his life. The Rolling stone article...an interview at the time when he probably never thought that people would actually be preserving this magazine for years to come. For him that was one media person asking him and he answered the best he can at that moment. I really don't think it was calculated at all. Same with all the times he was interacting with women. He was just being real...and in the moment...reacting ...being spontaneous. But to us...every moment is like frozen in time. We can look back on it and analyze them. In so doing...we distort them. Its like looking closely at a painting. We get so focused on the brush stroke that the beauty of the whole picture is lost. I do beleive that is where a lot of fans that are struggling are stuck at the moment. They are scrutinzing everything that the truth is so distorted.

CG...I understand where you are coming from. its like letting a fire rage on without feeding it with fuel...hopefully it just dies out. That thread will close soon and hopefully...the true healing will begin. In a way...I feel like this is a purging. This fandom have always been unstable because it was based on hopes and dreams for this guy. As Clay develops his definitive style and forge his own path...the fans whose dreams were not compatible leaves. Now that this big question mark in Clay's life has been answered there will be more that will be affected. But in the end the fandom will be stronger...and it will build up with people that will be here because they like his music, like him as a person and entertainer...and who can accept him for who he is.

I have to say thanks for all those fans that tried to put a balance in the OFC. Thanks too for keeping those of us that do not have the stomach for it in the loop.

[muskifest]

I leave you all with my Finale Post on the OFC People Magazine thread. And I wish you all a very good night. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Originally Posted by pa4clay

I wish clay would close this thread. It has stopped helping people and has deteriorated into an us vs them kind of thing. People are just repeating and repeating their points. It's obvious this is a personal issue and the decision whether to stay or go, accept or not, will be made in people's hearts no matter what anyone says.

Yep, agreed. I really believe that the repetition of some of the more venomous (and I do regard some of the views expressed in this thread "venomous", to choose the least distasteful adjective of the many in my brain at the moment) posts is only serving to divide and 'stir the turd' . It's really up to each individual to seek a solution once she's had the chance to express concerns, IMO. People have been clear with their opinions, so I'm sure it would be easy for anyone to find others who share/or might be able to thoughtfully discuss via PM any challenges that she's struggling with.

Ultimately, though, after the dust has settled, this IS Clay Aiken's fan club message board. FAN club. I'm saddened that after five years of being the target of slander and denigrating criticism all over the internet and traditional media from people who are NOT his fans, that now---when he is offering to us, his fans---yet again---his love and patience and devotion, regardless of our feelings about "the real" Clay ,---he has to read similar and worse attacks on his own message board from those who claimed to love him and support him unconditionally (semantics aside).

I honestly hope that one week instead of two serves the purpose that he meant this thread to serve and that we can move--as a fandom--FORWARD. There's so much more to look forward to.

And that is that for me here in this thread. Clay, I'm still on this amazing journey with you. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you.

[merrieeee]

I said I would not bring any more news about posts from over there any more and that is true. I have been reading over there tonight. However I will say that I don't believe I will ever feel so sad about what some people are writing about this good man as I am right now. I have tried really hard to be understanding and show support but no more. I am done. There are a few a very few that delight in vilifying this man and it is delight. I thought the media was hateful but it pales in comparison to the hate I see over there. And it is hate pure and simple despite how it is couched in religious terms. Less than 10 days ago this man was a wonderful, funny, compassionate humanitarian. Now he is the devil incarnate who is a master manipulator, all because of one little word....gay!

Clay has to be a far better person than I will ever be! He may forgive I will never!

This really good man does not deserve this....ever!

[Couch Tomato]

Merrieee :F_05BL17blowkiss: I understand. Totally.

Muskifest -wonderful post. I hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears.

[merrieeee]

On a lighter note...remember the purple flowered shirt.....it's baaack!

[Cotton]

lindylo @CV

BFS said the photo could travel

recap

Hi Guys back from the show, I have one picture due to user error, meaning i should have changed my batteries while waiting, i did not and missed some fab shots..

1st a little note about the economy and Broadway...three shows closed last weekend, Legally Blonde, Xanadu and Title of Show. Broadway is a treat and the economy is sucking...all this to say that the orchestra was about 3/4 full tonight.

As has been reported Mary Brennan, Clay's tour manager and Quiana were in the audience tonight...

This was not a Clay audience, but a Monty Python audience, they really seemed to enjoy the show as a whole, but didn't seem to favor any one actor.

Ok...so you know my recaps are like most of my posts...ramble...ramble...

so when of the changes during Spamalot/Camelot...when Clay helped his girl he made an oooooo sound was verra cute....

His horse scene he looked a bit constipated...and less tongue

He is know doing a peace sign during Find Your Grail

leg lift and small pony pat tonight

He did a stomp of frustration while the Bunny was being retrieved...i love when he does that...it is very reminiscent of a child acting tough when the bully leaves the room...i like it...

The cow hit Patsy and bounced off...he had to drag it on himself for the can can dancers to be able to come out...

The French gal is getting her licks in literally, she is licking and spanking....

He did wait for meeeeee during run away....

1st pooping scene...it appears that Parker is giving Dad lessons, at one point he turned to the audience and the look on his face was priceless...like i said, hanging with Parker is rubbing off on Daddy...

Nights of NI ... I can see Russia from my house, can you? then he ended with lets go see that pig with lipstick...too hysterical...

Clay's solo was wonderful during the Russian dance he had more of an "o" mouth and less tongue, though the tongue poked out at least once...

The Swampcastle scene...too funny...Bradely Dean was out...Mika Duncan played the role, and quite well...the funny thing is that his dagger didn't stay sheathed...it fell when he ran up the stairs when he went to talk to Lancelot...so of course, Tom being Tom, when he fell...he said oh, no the dagggggger...it was hysterical...Tom also got stuck on the parapet when getting ready to be cut from it...

The guard scene was really funny and well rec'd....but right after he takes the pike from Clay his dagger once again fell...Lance was like you dropped something...the audience roared...

During the bunny scene, Boris didn't bleed, but he did die...

Brother Maynard was very funny...

The winning peasant was a middle aged gentleman...he shook Clay's hand...and Lance blew him a kiss, Clay told him no...so then Lance did it again, and Clay put his head in hands...very cute...

So during the performance we had a laugher...you know one of those guys with the big booming laugh...and sometimes he laughed when no one else did ...it was hysterical....so during Tom and Rick's wedding scene he gave a big guffaw when Rick said it will still be controversial...so Tom said to him what are you laughing at...it was hysterical...

Clay, Dave and Bevedere did a choo-choo dance tonight it was sooo cute...

I must say that Clay seems very exuberant at curtain call, doing little dances, catching the confetti, just being silly and enjoying himself...it's nice to see...

He is also more relaxed at stage door, i think everyone who wanted a picture or an autograph got one...He was in a good mood...I told him that character may not be brave, but he is and he scoffed...

[wandacleo]

OMG, that lavander flowered shirt has just had me howling with laughter.

The balls may be lavander, but they're still titanium.