#46: Avoid the crazy, enjoy the good, and chill.

[jamar1700]

When he talked of being a role model, I really thought that extended into his private life as well as his public. I thought he had high standards for himself.

I guess what I don't understand, and I'm trying to, is what he has done or said to make you think he doesn't want to be a role model or have high standards for himself?

Or do we just define those things differently?

[justclay12]

Actually, what I'm trying to understand is, why now? In the past six years, he's shown us that he isn't the sweet innocent boy that some believed him to be, so why is there a problem now? I really want to understand this.

[merrieeee]

Clay's at Rubens show tonight.

[annabear]

Aww, I love that he's there to see his friend, Ruben.

[tribeca]

sweet I love the Ruben & Clay have remained friends

I will tell this funny (to me anyway) story

One day I was helping my niece with her homework my mom says "I think that singer you guys like threw a kid off stage?"

niece & me "who?"

mom " on the news I heard singer Akon threw a kid off the stage at one of his shows. Akon isn't the singer you like from American Idol?"

to this

my niece fell on the ground laughing hysterically and said

"oh Clay Aiken is so sweet & has a lazy eye and he is sweet "

[FearofH2O]

But I'm not there and it's very close. I actually thought of going but with my great eyes (couldn't see Clay in the youtube video despite all the hints and photos) I wouldn't see him if he sat down next to me.

KAndre,now that was a great recap of evil RCA.

[Jaycee]

When he talked of being a role model, I really thought that extended into his private life as well as his public. I thought he had high standards for himself.

I guess what I don't understand, and I'm trying to, is what he has done or said to make you think he doesn't want to be a role model or have high standards for himself?

Or do we just define those things differently?

Being asked to actually put down things that make me feel this way is hard. I mentioned his appreciation of the French Taunters. I understand now the difference between that and Billboard but honestly I didn't think he would like that sort of humor. I remember when we first found out he was going to be playing Sir Robin everyone wondered if he would say shit.

During the Talk Back (is that what it was called) for BC, he said hell. I don't recall why, but he then said something to indicate that we would be shocked at how much he swears. Then there is the picture of him and Hannah which seems to say that he no longer is a non drinker. None of it is a big deal, nothing that most of us haven't done. I guess what I am saying is that he was talking about being a role model but in private he was just acting like any other guy. I just thought he was the same person in public and in private. As I have said before, I managed to ignore things that didn't point in that direction so I know I am largely to blame for my problem.

[Jaycee]

Actually, what I'm trying to understand is, why now? In the past six years, he's shown us that he isn't the sweet innocent boy that some believed him to be, so why is there a problem now? I really want to understand this.

Can't answer that. I guess up until 2007 I just saw what I wanted to see. All things that others saw to indicate he wasn't a sweet innocent boy were wasted on me, I guess I chose not to see them. I started picking up on something in '07 but not anything particular. Why now? I have no idea.

[Thankful4Clay]

Jaycee,

I think Clay still is a role model. He's nothing like his own father who was a womanizer and an alcoholic.

Clay may have a drink once in a while, but I doubt that he drinks to excess on a regular basis. Just about everyone swears once in a while. I doubt that it's a huge part of his vocabulary. I am shocked when my kids are around their friends and swear words slip out of their mouths. They don't talk like that around me.

Clay is still devoted to his causes. I think he respects all people. Given his sexual orientation, he can't exactly be married, so sex outside of marriage is to be expected.

I think he is the same man. He has just matured as we all do.

I would be proud if my son grew up to be as good a man as Clay is.

[jumpingjacks]

Hey everyone, yes, I know it's odd for me to be posting but I've been reading for a long time and just have to interject here.

Jaycee, I'm a public school teacher. The way I present myself to my students is my professional demeanor. My students are not around me in my private time. If they were, I would act exactly the same way around them as I do at school. I think everyone has a "professional" and a "private" personality. My students wouldn't know that because it isn't something they would see from me.

I think the Clay we are seeing now is probably the Clay that has always been there, we just weren't privy to it. He had a "persona" attached to him from the get go and, quite frankly, I always thought the halo was a bit too tight. I don't think any pictures that we have found is a fair representation because, for one, they were private pictures taken with friends and secondly, no children were harmed in the making of them.

We really don't know Clay, only our perceptions of him. I like this new/old Clay because he is free to be who he really is rather than a created caricature.

Cussing/drinking does not make a person a poor role model. It's not like he's spewing filth or tipping back a fifth of whiskey while working with kids.

I dunno. It's hard to have your perceptions altered but, really, is he that much different?

[wandacleo]

I'm just not getting how someone can tell if a person has been drinking based on a picture.

HUH?

I look drunk as a skunk on some pictures just because of the way the camera caught my image. I barely even drink

Not that I CARE if Clay were drinking. Why would I care? It's not as though he's falling down drunk out on the street and peeing down his leg.

[tribeca]

Jaycee

I give you lots of credit for posting here & trying to understand your feelings. You are being very honest. there may be other people lurking/reading who feel the same way but are afraid to post for whatever reason.

[jamar1700]

Then there is the picture of him and Hannah which seems to say that he no longer is a non drinker. .

Seems to indicate? What am I missing here? Is there some picture of him boozing it up with Hannah that I missed? Or are you reading something into a photograph that you really have no way of knowing?

How did you ever deal with the Boobgate picture back in the day? *g*

---

Glad he got to see Ruben in his show. I love that they are still friends.

[Jaycee]

Jaycee

I give you lots of credit for posting here & trying to understand your feelings. You are being very honest. there may be other people lurking/reading who feel the same way but are afraid to post for whatever reason.

Thanks tribeca I appreciate that. It is hard to post when you know that very few if any will feel the same. It is also hard to put "feelings" into words so that someone else will understand. Some people seem to understand what I am trying to say and others don't but that's ok. I do feel somewhat better just for having the chance to say it. I don't really have anyone in my real life that I talk to about Clay, at least not this sort of thing.

I am so glad that Clay showed up to see Ruben

[Jaycee]

Then there is the picture of him and Hannah which seems to say that he no longer is a non drinker. .

Seems to indicate? What am I missing here? Is there some picture of him boozing it up with Hannah that I missed? Or are you reading something into a photograph that you really have no way of knowing?

How did you ever deal with the Boobgate picture back in the day? *g*

I guess I was going by pictures of myself that were taken when I had a few too many beers.

Of course I thought the Boobgate picture was a photoshop, what else <g>

[jazzgirl]

I've been quite surprised by the Clay revelations this year myself. But it doesn't really bother me. I don't know him, he doesn't know me and as such it doesn't affect my mental preconceptions about myself. As long as Clay doesn't turn OJ Simpson (at which point I will "Run Away"), I just enjoy what I like at the Clay smorgasbord (muski might pounce on that *g*) or as our thread title says, "avoid the crazy, enjoy the good, and chill".

Regarding the "Asians are smarter" discussion, I saw a recent segment on Charlie Rose with a fascinating discussion of why Asians test so much better in math than their Western counterparts. It's because of rice! If interested, see this video link from about 12:30 to 15:00 minute mark. The discussion is with Malcolm Gladwell, author of the bestseller "Outliers". In brief, he theorizes on the role of culture in success, and that the rice culture is renowned for being much more labor intensive than Western agriculture. Per Gladwell, if a culture has intensive work for 1500 or so years, a child born into that culture has advantages. From NPR:

One of the puzzles that educators have thought about for years is why is it that kids from Japan, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong [and] China vastly outperform their American or Western counterparts in math," Gladwell says. "They score way, way, better than American kids do."

Gladwell says he thought that Asian children might be inheriting a particular cultural legacy from their parents and their society that was helping them succeed in math — and he says he found the answer in the agricultural tradition of rice farming.

"Rice farming lays out a cultural pattern that works beautifully when it comes to math," Gladwell hypothesizes. "Rice farming is the most labor-intensive form of agriculture known to man. It is also the most cognitively demanding form of agriculture … There is a direct correlation between effort and reward. You get exactly out of your rice paddy what you put into it."

While American students often say math skills are innate, Asian students more frequently attribute success in math to hard work.

More

[justclay12]

I'm just not getting how someone can tell if a person has been drinking based on a picture.

HUH?

I look drunk as a skunk on some pictures just because of the way the camera caught my image. I barely even drink

Not that I CARE if Clay were drinking. Why would I care? It's not as though he's falling down drunk out on the street and peeing down his leg.

Wanda, you sure have a way with words.

[tribeca]

Thanks tribeca I I don't really have anyone in my real life that I talk to about Clay, at least not this sort of thing.

which may make you over think things. Which is what I do

I understand how you feel. I post on the AI boards also. There are some young fans there. When Clay came out people in their RL only laughed & said told you so's. They had questions but they always supported him

which is what I think you are doing.

[luckiest1]

Oh...while I was in NYC, Alex used one of the cars most of the time--I'd left my keys. When I got back home I was looking for my keys and couldn't find them. I rifled through the various clumps of keys at 'Key Central' in our house, checked various pockets, etc....but couldn't find them. I started getting nervous that maybe I'd taken them with me to NYC and LOST them!

Then Alex oh-so-casually said, "Oh, by the way, Mom. I took the Clay picture thingy off your key chain."

No doubt she was too embarrassed to be seen with such a thing. Not too embarrassed to use my car, though of course.

Heh, the way around this is to put something Clay-related on your car that she can't remove. Like a personalized licence plate.

I don't understand putting celebrities up on pedestals. They're human, aren't we all? I've always liked the "let Clay be Clay" mantra, even though some people thought it got old.

Glad to hear Clay was able to attend Ruben's show tonight. I had forgotten about that. Isn't Celine this week too? We should get some reports back from that. And then GFI. Lots of Clay news coming in the next week!

[me myb]

< snip>

Maybe that's why it seems that some fans seem happier with 'this' Clay---not because we like him 'better' when he's all silly and campy and whatnot or because we approve or encourage anything, but because of the fact that he's free to be silly and campy and whatnot without feeling that he has to hide while doing it. And, at least for me, because it means that he has other people to talk with, to listen to, to learn from, to confide in about things without being condemned for who he is. Things that for 24 years he couldn't share with anyone.

I liked your whole post but this paragraph especially as it sums up how I feel. The bolded part exactly!! Thank you.

The thing that really filled me with hope for our land was the miracle of that plane landing and the pure truth that the pilot doing a superb job got a great result. What a great sign to the everyday man. The fact that other people working together were the second part of the miracle. I believe that pilot was a honest, hard working man all his life, and he took his responsibility so seriously that failure wasn't an option. Maybe God is trying to tell us something because that was a miracle in my eyes.

Wow! I was just having this conversation with my cousiin tonite before church! I said the very same thing about seeing the small glimpses of light/hope that seem to be being shown to mankind right now and we were using these same examples. That pilot and his landing was the bottom line for me. Thank you so much for saying it too as it just shows that many are seeing the same thing.

Just tells me that God is in his heaven and all is right with the world.

I wanted to tell you guys

today in the mail was my niece's Clay Spamalot poster.

Instead of being signed by just Clay the whole cast signed it

BUT

Clay's signature is way up at the top alone

and everyone else is way at the bottom

This is SO way cool! What an awesome keepsake and how very kind of that man to get those signatures and remember to send it on to her.

[Clayzy]

There's a picture of Clay drinking/drunk/possibly holding a red plastic cup in his hand? Because red plastic cups always hold beer, ya know. It's physically impossible for 'em to hold anything else.

I am trying to make light, but I also would like to see this picture, if it's available. I don't expect Clay to be a teetotaler (I mean, he has mentioned having had a drink before) so that's not why I'd like to see it. Hey Clay + picture (even if it involves bow ties [and yes I am going to bring that up all the time b/c I think it is haw-larious ] or chef's hats) is always a good thing.

But, in a more serious tone, I'd just like to see what you see, Jaycee.

ETA: Oooh, look! I'm at the top of the page!

[tribeca]

What do you win if you are at the top of the page?

When & where is this Celine concert? I remember very little about it however someone did post something about a M&G with Celine being added

[Gibby]

Doesn't mean there is anything wrong with this one, it just means that he is different then I thought he was.

Yeah, was this the theme for 2008 or what? "I'm doing Spamalot on Broadway; and by the way, I'm having a baby with Jaymes; and oh yeah, I'm gay; and now that that's out of the way, have you seen how hawt my boyfriend is?" It was a lot to process, and I'm personally glad all that news kind of got parceled out in bite-sized bits - otherwise I would have had a harder time with all the changes.

Wow, bottle, thanks for putting this all down so succinctly! Clay really did reveal a lot last year, didn't he? And I agree with you about the bite-sized pieces. I think the fandom might have completely imploded if all of that had been revealed at once!

Hey, I think it's time for some pictures! They show how our multi-facted boyfriend can be hawt, silly, or reverent, depending on the situation. No wonder we are all still fascinated by this complex, talented and charismatic man!

[jamar1700]

What do you win if you are at the top of the page?

If you only knew...

[tribeca]

What do you win if you are at the top of the page?

If you only knew...

I am a little afraid

maybe I better off not knowing

Thanks for the picture of the shirt tug which I miss very much