#46: Avoid the crazy, enjoy the good, and chill.

[Gibby]

Oh, I noticed the hair first, too, clayzy. But later I was rather surprised about that arm! BWAH!

And jmh, I feel rather superficial to be talking about the placement of an arm, after your wonderful post about the value of education! I'm so impressed by the courage and determination of those Afghani girls.

[FearofH2O]

Tribeca, i couldn't find Clay in the Spam video. If he is in it could you give us the time so I can stop the video and search? I was never very good at the find things game.

After watching the video I think that you will see Clay from 0.37 to 0.41, 1.09 to 1.11 and 1.26 to 1.28.

Thanks Lotus but I either have really bad eyes or forgot what Clay looks like. Someone posted screencaps and I still didn't see Clay.

[claytonic]

Um, I just want to comment about the right arm of the guy in the bright blue polo at the bottom of the pic. Rather interesting placement of the arm, doncha think?

I only looked at their faces until YOU revealed your eye for detail! Gibby, you are corrupting me!

jmh123 thanks for your article on the Afghan girls, I feel a little more redeemed from reading it, after Gibby tried to corrupt me! (Seriously, I shouldn't joke about it, it is a serious matter, i.e. the Afghan situation)

[tribeca]

maybe Clay should wear that hair do @ JBT 2

[Clayzy]

Clay fills those pants out really well, ya know... Dunno if it is just the way he's standing, the guy's arm giving some perspective, or what, but while things may not be real clearly defined, those are really nice... pants.

ETA: And where is muskifest? She's missing all the fun of having a handy elbow point right at her object of affection!

[jmh123]

Oh, I noticed the hair first, too, clayzy. But later I was rather surprised about that arm! BWAH!

And jmh, I feel rather superficial to be talking about the placement of an arm, after your wonderful post about the value of education! I'm so impressed by the courage and determination of those Afghani girls.

Gosh, don't. Both are connected because they are part of the many facets of Clay Aiken. Who is endlessly fascinating. And into equal opportunities for all.

[muskifest]

Okay....calm down, everybody...yes, that guy's arm seems to be quite comfy pressed up against Clay's crotch. Indeed. Of course, whose arm WOULDN'T be? But I don't think (as I've seen posted elsewhere) that Clay's sportin' a woody in this goldmine of a picture. His glory is just gloriously bunched up...as any man's glory would be if an arm were to be pressed up against it in such a manner. Just bunched up, displaced, forced to find a place to rest.

Yep.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

(But DAYUM! he's filling those jeans out nicely, isn't he? )

ETA: tribeca,

When my niece gave Rick Clay's poster to sign (no idea why?)

he said "I think I will sign his crotch"

The Rick to whom you're referring...is it THIS Rick, whose arm advertises quite a familiarity with said crotch? Or Rick Holmes, who I'd not suspect has intimate knowledge of the crotch since Rick Holmes is married with children, I believe.

Inquiring minds and whtatnot.

[liney23]

I need a drink! A LONG TALL one.

Tied up with a bow tie, I presume.

wanda... BWAH and thanks, since it brought out the long, tall pictures... S.W.O.O.N!

Boy do I like that picture where the elbow is so strategically placed...

tribeca... I agree, don't give up on your education. No matter how slowly you go, eventually you'll get there. My boss got his bachelors last year and he's 55 years old. He finished up with an online branch of a well-known university, so only took one class a semester until he made it. It is so worth it! Hang in there!

muski... Very well said! What I like about that picture is that he is just one of the guys... all dressed weird, but all dressed weirdly together... That makes me smile... after I get my drool bib wrung out, of course!

[tribeca]

The Rick who signed my niece's poster

was the Rick who played Sir Lancelot

LOL signed his leg

we don't have the poster

My niece asked a man that worked at the theatre if he could take it back & get Clay's signature on it

he said he would send it to us & took our address

we have checked the mail everyday. Nothing

[Jaycee]

I think I must be the only one around that isn't thrilled with that picture. It makes me feel like I don't even know who Clay is.

I fell for the guy that wore the WWJD braclet and sang You Were There in concert. I look at this picture and I think of that young man and I can't find the connection between the two of them. It isn't his being gay, other then since he came out he doesn't seem like the same person.

I feel so out of place on all of the boards anymore. I never have posted much but I always enjoyed reading. Now it seems like the further Clay gets from the person I thought he was, the happier everyone seems to be. I feel like I must have created a Clay that never really existed. You know the guy who wore all the layers of clothes and changed the lyrics of his songs because he didn't swear. I wonder if he was ever real.

I will probably be sorry I posted this but I just needed to say it. It doesn't matter I guess.

[Clayzy]

I think I must be the only one around that isn't thrilled with that picture. It makes me feel like I don't even know who Clay is.

I fell for the guy that wore the WWJD braclet and sang You Were There in concert. I look at this picture and I think of that young man and I can't find the connection between the two of them. It isn't his being gay, other then since he came out he doesn't seem like the same person.

I feel so out of place on all of the boards anymore. I never have posted much but I always enjoyed reading. Now it seems like the further Clay gets from the person I thought he was, the happier everyone seems to be. I feel like I must have created a Clay that never really existed. You know the guy who wore all the layers of clothes and changed the lyrics of his songs because he didn't swear. I wonder if he was ever real.

I will probably be sorry I posted this but I just needed to say it. It doesn't matter I guess.

I don't see anything about this picture that can be taken that way, Jaycee. I mean, the intentions behind the picture were actually very good--he didn't want to make a new castmember of Spamalot to feel stupid for being dressed up when no one else was so he asked everybody if they could all dress stupidly. That seems like a nice thing to do. Is it the big deal we're making over the arm/crotch escapades? Because that was likely inadvertent or, seeing as how Clay's knee appears to be bent, just a handy place for Rick C. (right?) to rest his arm.

As for Clay being further away from the man you thought he was--and I'm going to assume that that means religious since you mentioned the WWJD bracelet and YWT--didn't he say that he was still a religious person when he came out? I'm pretty sure he did, or at least alluded to it, saying that he hated how the connotation between Southern Baptist and gay basher (not his words) existed. I mean, I know I'm probably not going to change your mind, but just thought I'd say.

I guess I just don't see anything wrong with these pictures or with the way Clay has behaved, appeared (bow tie included!), spoken, etc since he has come out. Of course, I was only a fan for maybe 2-3 weeks before he came out, so I don't really have a point of reference to compare pre-out of closet Clay and post-out of closet Clay.

[tribeca]

Well Jaycee

if that's how you feel that is how you feel. Feeling are not right or wrong they just are.

I am sure Clay has changed in some ways since we first met him. He was 24 then and IMHO he seemed much younger (naive maybe?)

I don't mean that as an insult. How many of us are the same person we where 6 years ago.

There are things he has said or done that I may not agree with but I have always seen a good person there.

[Jaycee]

Like I said, I probably shouldn't have said anything. I have just been feeling down for a couple weeks and it is probably more my reaction to the things that the fans are saying, then anything that Clay has actually said or done himself. The reaction to the picture on another board I was reading just got to me so I came over here.

I just seems to be out of step anymore.

[tribeca]

Like I said, I probably shouldn't have said anything. I have just been feeling down for a couple weeks and it is probably more my reaction to the things that the fans are saying, then anything that Clay has actually said or done himself. The reaction to the picture on another board I was reading just got to me so I came over here.

I just seems to be out of step anymore.

Sorry you are feeling down. I don't know what other board you were on. I think that people here where just having a little fun.

sorry I don't understand your last line.

Whatever you are feeling down about hopefully things will turn around.

[Jaycee]

Like I said, I probably shouldn't have said anything. I have just been feeling down for a couple weeks and it is probably more my reaction to the things that the fans are saying, then anything that Clay has actually said or done himself. The reaction to the picture on another board I was reading just got to me so I came over here.

I just seems to be out of step anymore.

Sorry you are feeling down. I don't know what other board you were on. I think that people here where just having a little fun.

sorry I don't understand your last line.

Whatever you are feeling down about hopefully things will turn around.

I guess my problem is that I am more of a conservative, That is what I meant about being out of step. There don't seem to be many of us left, at least not among the fans that post.

But that is my problem, thanks for listening

[wandacleo]

I think I must be the only one around that isn't thrilled with that picture. It makes me feel like I don't even know who Clay is.

I fell for the guy that wore the WWJD braclet and sang You Were There in concert. I look at this picture and I think of that young man and I can't find the connection between the two of them. It isn't his being gay, other then since he came out he doesn't seem like the same person.

I feel so out of place on all of the boards anymore. I never have posted much but I always enjoyed reading. Now it seems like the further Clay gets from the person I thought he was, the happier everyone seems to be. I feel like I must have created a Clay that never really existed. You know the guy who wore all the layers of clothes and changed the lyrics of his songs because he didn't swear. I wonder if he was ever real.

I will probably be sorry I posted this but I just needed to say it. It doesn't matter I guess.

I'm not sure I understand being upset about a picture--this was when they all dressed up for the new actor as I recall. So, they were all just goofing off.

However, maybe the further Clay gets from the person you thought he was, the closer he gets to the person he really is.

To me, that's cause of celebration. People are complex....and they change with age and experience. That's life. I think Clay is very real--just HIS real and maybe not the real that people imagined in their minds.

[tribeca]

Wandacleo

I agree with what you said

but I also understand what Jaycee is saying

Clay did have an imagine of the boy next door, the religious mom ma's boy, the man who didn't swear ect... and a lot of it I believe was him (maybe I am stupid)

but people do change.

I now this will seem weird to some but when I watch clips of Clay singing in his earlier career (AI idol, solo tour ITT ) I saw joy behind his eyes. My favorite clip of him singing Soliatire was from AI 3 when he hit that big not & people cheered. You could see how much joy he felt singing.

For a long time I didn't see that person.

After he came out

I saw that joy in his eyes again

[claytonic]

Jaycee, I hear you. And I also agree with Tribeca. He was VERY young for his age, and he has experienced more drastic change in 6 years than most people in 20 - 30 years of life experience.

The person who wrote Learning to Sing was very idealistic and very limited in his attitude, and I loved him for who he was because most of it was so good, I wished it could be bottled and sold. Now I love the person he has become, his capacity to love and not put limitations on who and what he loves because who and what he loves has made him a grown man. The videos of him with his baby son totally melted my heart. He is not a saint (thank God), but he is no devil either. He brings humor, love, music and integrity into our world, that's reason enough to follow my heart and follow him around. Jaycee, can you see that the core of who he is has never changed?

[Couch Tomato]

I think I've been happy to discover that Clay is still Clay. One of my favorite things from Spam weekend was when he sat down at that piano for the last time during his big song. He spread that jacket without letting the audience see his butt... then when the collective groan went up he turned and looked at the audience with the most devlish gotcha ever. Clay's a prankster, a goof, a gossip, a practical jokester, a smart ass - that was always all there part of him as well. And thank god it still is. WWJD - the bracelet was there to serve as a reminder to him, not a sign that he was perfect. A good man that tries - just don't see how that's changed except he no longer has to hide ALL of himself. To me that's a good thing because we finally are getting to see all of the man - in ways that he guarded so zealously before. He's free. And still a man who loves his mama, is religious etc. That's all still there as well.

[Jaycee]

Jaycee, I hear you. And I also agree with, Tribeca. He was VERY young for his age, and he has experienced more drastic change in 6 years than most people in 20 - 30 years of life experience.

The person who wrote Learning to Sing was very idealistic and very limited in his attitude, and I loved him for who he was because most of it was so good, I wished it could be bottled and sold. Now I love the person he has become, his capacity to love and not put limitations on who and what he loves because who and what he loves has made him a grown man. The videos of him with his baby son totally melted my heart. He is not a saint (thank God), but he is no devil either. He brings humor, love, music and integrity into our world, that's reason enough to follow my heart and follow him around. Jaycee, can see that the core of who he is has never changed?

claytonic and Tribeca I know what you are saying is probably the case. I want to believe that the person I thought he was is still there because that is the person that won my heart. I love the voice but it was that person that has kept me here for 6 years.

It wasn't just the picture that got me upset, it has been building for a couple weeks. I guess the picture and the reaction to it was just the straw.

Perhaps when we actually get to see and hear him it will help. I haven't seen him for a year and a half other then pictures. Maybe it is not knowing what is next. Heck, I don't know.

[muskifest]

Jaycee...you might be surprised to get this post from me--Muskifest, Smut Queen (heh)---but I DO understand what you're saying. I think the only thing I can offer to help you in this 'transition' is that I never had Clay quite as angelic as the initial media portrayal and subsequent "saintly" popstar image building made him out to be. I always smiled whenever I heard him say things like "If I'm a saint, my halo would be crooked" (or whatever that was). I always felt it was the media and some fans who truly built that paragon of virtue that became Clay Aiken.

He always seemed to be a bit of a naughty boy to me---not in any kind of disgusting, dangerous sense---but more of just a regular guy, one who has a wicked sense of humor and can be very bawdy if the mood strikes him. Not to say I wasn't shocked (SHOCKED! I tell you!) during the IT when he was feeling his oats with Angela on stage! BWAH! I loved it! And that made me love him even more than I did on AI and immediately after in his interviews post-AI. Because it made him REAL to me. He was still an unreal vocalist, a funny guy, a true entertainer. He still loved his mama and his god and he still reached out to the less fortunate. He still smiled and warmed the world.

But he also did "naughty" things. And he had fun doing them! And it cracked my shit up!

So I never had any other 'sense' of him than that he was good man--a much better man than such a large percentage of the 'average' guy---a man who always TRIES to be a good man. And I don't know about you, but I swear that's admirable to me.

Re: that pic? Totally camp. Totally fun. Totally just being real with friends, playing a prank, kidding around. I LOVE it! I'm just happy we're able to see the pics. It makes me feel good to think of all the 'families' Clay creates wherever he goes.

I do understand what you're feeling....but please don't feel the need to stop posting. I think Clay would understand, too.

In any case, gay or not...the man floats my boat.

[cha cha trusty]

OK - I just gotta say - who is this guy??

Because he seems to be very fond of Clay!!!

[Jaycee]

Jaycee...you might be surprised to get this post from me--Muskifest, Smut Queen (heh)---but I DO understand what you're saying. I think the only thing I can offer to help you in this 'transition' is that I never had Clay quite as angelic as the initial media portrayal and subsequent "saintly" popstar image building made him out to be. I always smiled whenever I heard him say things like "If I'm a saint, my halo would be crooked" (or whatever that was). I always felt it was the media and some fans who truly built that paragon of virtue that became Clay Aiken.

He always seemed to be a bit of a naughty boy to me---not in any kind of disgusting, dangerous sense---but more of just a regular guy, one who has a wicked sense of humor and can be very bawdy if the mood strikes him. Not to say I wasn't shocked (SHOCKED! I tell you!) during the IT when he was feeling his oats with Angela on stage! BWAH! I loved it! And that made me love him even more than I did on AI and immediately after in his interviews post-AI. Because it made him REAL to me. He was still an unreal vocalist, a funny guy, a true entertainer. He still loved his mama and his god and he still reached out to the less fortunate. He still smiled and warmed the world.

Muskifest I agree but I don't just blame the media and the fans, I think in many interviews Clay helped to build that image. He did send out mixed messages but I was only picking up the one that I wanted, I guess.

I don't believe that he has changed as an entertainer, I think he is one of the very best. I guess I just have to get to know Clay again with the blinders off and see if I like the REAL ONE and well as I did the imaginary.

By the way, I always enjoy your posts

I have got to go to bed!!

[ausdon]

Like I said, I probably shouldn't have said anything. I have just been feeling down for a couple weeks and it is probably more my reaction to the things that the fans are saying, then anything that Clay has actually said or done himself. The reaction to the picture on another board I was reading just got to me so I came over here.

I just seems to be out of step anymore.

Hey Jaycee, I hope your spirits lift and you feel happier again soon.

One thought did strike me as I was reading - Do you think maybe the things Clay has seen on his Unicef trips have caused him to "loosen up" or relax his attitude to appearing so "goody two-shoes". I never got that saintly vibe from him but I wasn't here at the very start either.

I know that with each passing year I change my idea of what's important to me. I'm guessing he has seen some bad & sad things abroad and faced his tough times at home as well and while that probably wouldn't change his basic "level of goodness" (for want of a better term) it might make him zero in on what's important to him in his heart and not feel he should portray a certain image.

I guess I am trying to say (in a very roundabout fashion!) that we all do, and absolutely should, change our ideas and attitudes as we age, Clay included.

[jamar1700]

I think I've been happy to discover that Clay is still Clay.

Amen and

eta...ooo and from Fear below...

Any picture is just a moment in time, a fraction of a second, and we have no way of interpreting what they mean.

Double Amen and I don't think this can be stressed enough so I will make it red. *g*

---

Speaking of sterotyping and anti-intellectualism, I just finished a fascinating book by David Anderegg called Nerds: Who They Are and Why We Need More of Them

http://www.amazon.com/Nerds-They-Need-More...8751&sr=8-1

...child therapist and psychology professor Anderegg takes a wry and well-rounded look at the legacy of everyone's (least) favorite schoolyard epithet, getting deep into the history of an idea as well as the nuts and bolts of childhood "stereotype acquisition." Beginning with a "Field Guide to Nerds" ("or Why Nerds are So Gay"), Anderegg considers typical nerd traits (and includes a "Nerd Test" copied from "Deluxe NERD Glasses" package copy), parses out the subtle but important differences between "nerd" (emphasizing appearance) and "geek" (emphasizing intelligence), looks at the cultural history and rising profile of American anti-intellectualism, from Ichabod Crane and Ralph Waldo Emerson to Seinfeld and Beauty and the Geek, as well as more recent developments in nerd-related medical diagnoses like autism and Asperger's.

takes a measured look at how we think about and why we should rethink "nerds," examining such topics as: - our anxiety about intense interest in things mechanical or technological; - the pathologizing of "nerdy" behavior with diagnoses such as Asperger syndrome; - the cycle of anti-nerd prejudice that took place after the Columbine incident; - why nerds are almost exclusively an American phenomenon; - the archetypal struggles of nerds and jocks in American popular culture and history; - the conformity of adolescents and why adolescent stereotypes linger into adulthood long after we should know better; and nerd cultural markers, particularly science fiction.

okay...I'll stop now...

but I thought it was a really fascinating read...just sayin'...