#46: Avoid the crazy, enjoy the good, and chill.

[cagney1950]

IMO she just wanted to be heard. Sometimes it isn't we want people to agree with us we just want people to listen to what we are saying.

And that's a very good point to remember. Thank you.

I agree with this too.

clayzycoffin I bet the song was "I Will Carry the You." I was shopping in the Sears' appliance section a few years ago and I heard IWCY over the loudspeaker. I actually drifted away from the salesperson as he was introducing the various dishwashers so I could get a better listen. I could tell from the look on his face that he wondered what was going on as my face was tilted towards the ceiling (source of the music) with a smile on my face that he probably rarely sees as he describes the attributes of appliances.

About the whole Flock of Seagulls thing. First of all, love all the pics that have surfaced. What struck me about this when Clay first talked about this on Kimmel is that he got the Spamalot co-workers to go along with this idea. This spoke loudly to me about his leadership skills and the acceptance by his peers. That made me all schmoopie. And he made a point to Kimmel that not only the girls got dressed up but the guys did too. And here is the fun evidence.

[wandacleo]

Interesting "discussions" going on.

Hmmm.....let's see. There ARE cultural differences in attitudes toward education, but cultural generalizations that are true for the group can never be assumed to be true for the individual (the Bell curve has a low end and a high end). Not worth fighting over since our own kids--and especially our grandkids--are always the smartest anyhow.

Packing? I am assuming that Clay is packing what his genes gave him. Hardly his fault if prurient-minded hussies comment on it.

(Speaking as a card-carrying prurient-minded hussy.)

Pictures? Impossible to know what's going on if we're not there. I'm NEVER there. I'm just grateful as hell to get some candid shots that give us a glimpse of Clay having fun with friends.

Goody-goody Clay. I would never have been here in the first place if THAT's the image I had of him. I always assumed that Clay kept a public and a private profile because he didn't want pictures of his drinking, carousing influencing young fans. That seems totally responsible to me.

Not two-faced. Mature and sensible.

Religious Clay? Totally and completely his business. I have never observed that religion and morality/goodness were in any way related. I've known just as many good heathens as good church/synogogue/mosque goers.

[Lotus]

FYI

Openly Gay Episcopal Bishop to give Invocation at Lincoln Memorial from the NY Times Jan 12

YES!

For me this is sort of an antidote to the announcement that Rick Warren of Saddleback Church in Southern California is giving the invocation at the Presidential inauguration.

Ah grammar pet peeves. How about "I am bored of ......." Or how about answering "yes" to the question "do you mind....?"

I loved seeing the latest seagull pictures. I think for some fans it is still hard to acknowledge that gay Clay is a sexual being.

I hope you don't mind my bringing up the topic of Clay's future career vis a vis RCA.

Clay loves to sing, he will continue to sing. IMO, since Jaymes and he have a child, it seems logical that she will do all in her power to make sure that he continues to have a career for as long as he wants one.

4 edits later..i think a record for me

[Clayzorback]

I hope it is alright to post this here. I have to get rid of my Clay stuff. Please, don't anyone interpret this as me no longer being a fan. He will always have my love, support, and respect. I plan to continue following his career. It's just that I will be doing it from afar. I will still attend concerts and buy his cd, only no longer in multiples. I've been ordered to get rid of and to stop all the Clay memorabilia collecting. Per husband. Please check out this link and share it with your other friends. Thank you.

http://rebelsforclayaiken.yuku.com/topic/4439

[jamar1700]

4 edits later..i think a record for me

amatuer

[cagney1950]

Interesting "discussions" going on.

Hmmm.....let's see. There ARE cultural differences in attitudes toward education, but cultural generalizations that are true for the group can never be assumed to be true for the individual (the Bell curve has a low end and a high end). Not worth fighting over since our own kids--and especially our grandkids--are always the smartest anyhow.

I have been in the education business in one shape or other for thirty years. I have seen the growth and development of multicultural education programs and one of the things that has always confounded me about this area of study is that it requires at some level to learn generalizations about groups so that interactions are culturally sensitive. But by painting with a broad brush, we are in danger of over generalizing. I think what I have learned from these studies is to be aware that culture may impact impressions and behaviors. That has been helpful for me.

[kimiye]

Would you like to go back and quote me where I generalized about Asians? I did not. You assumed.

QUOTE: "Interesting concept. However, I must say that absolutely all of the Asian FCA'ers that I know don't just "seem to be so smart". They really are smart. I wouldn't say they're just average people who have parents who gave them a leg up."

How do you know what kind of education was provided for them? Did you ask for details on their education? You are making the assumption here. You've based that assumption on the handful of Asians on this board who actually post.

No, I wasn't making an assumption based on posts. They are not necessarily board members who post regularly, as a matter of fact. I said all the Asian FCA'ers that I know. I was talking about people I actually know. People I've spent time with. People I've slept with. Over the years I have known them, I have of course discussed education with these friends. You made an assumption that I was talking about people I don't really know, and you are wrong.

I've never said that Asians are any smarter than any other group, just that a few that I do know are some very smart people. As are, by the way, all shapes and colors of other FCA'ers who are also some of the very smartest people I know. Personally. Not just through their posts.

All I said was the small group of Asian people on this board that I know are really smart. What I apparently didn't make clear is that it sounded like you were saying they could only achieve well because they had parents who spent money on private schooling. That's what I was objecting to in your post.

Well, that is YOUR assumption, I NEVER said or implied anything so preposterous and, at best, highly insulting. All I was trying to communicate was that Asians, as a culture, value education very highly, and that is why so many of them seem smart.

That wasn't all you said. You said a lot more. But if you want to back off and say nothing more than that many Asians value education, I'll agree with that. I won't agree that it "is why so many of them seem smart," because that implies that it's all a ruse. Just that extra fake education, and not real knowledge. I don't even agree that so many Asians seem smart. It sounds like another stereotype to me.

Note, I said private tuition, I never said private schooling for THEM, as YOU stated.

By saying "private schooling" rather than private school, I thought everyone knew I mean the additional after-school tutoring. So, once again, you interpreted what I said into something I didn't say.

I am prepared to agree to this... that neither of us seems to be able to understand what the other person was trying to say. Therefore, I hope my point on the importance of education and reading comprehension is, at the very least, valid.

Oh, I understand you perfectly. I agree that you don't understand me. You've done a great job of explaining yourself and your reasoning, and I still think you are stereotyping all over the place. And with that, I'm done with this discussion, because it's clear you believe what you want to believe, and nothing I say will make a difference. I'm not angry or insulted, but I am tired of trying to get through to you.

How many Asians do you know? Have you traveled to different parts of Asia? Have you LIVED in different parts of Asia? Have you been educated with them? Have you lived under the same roof with them? Spoken their language, learned about their values. their culture, their spiritual beliefs? Even with all that, the diversity of Asia is mind blowing and generalizations are impossible. But one thing I know in a general sense, they value education highly and go out of their way to provide it for their kids.

I'm not going to answer this. There's no requirement that I, nor anyone else, have all that experience in order to have an opinion. And the fact that you have had much of that experience doesn't make your opinion any more valid than any other.

But I will say, it is you who have made the biggest assumption of all.

[muskifest]

00lsee.. and please...don't /levity 'kay?

Not to perpetuate a discussion whose time might have ended but I just wanted Jaycee to know that my post wasn't in any way trying to change her opinion or get her to agree with ME. I got something in the tone of her post that seemed sad to me and I just wanted to try to offer a way to look at things that might help her process.

Anyhoo....Clay content: anytimeanywhere

That is....

This morning on the first page of the sports section of the SF Chronicle there is a pic of the owner of the SF Giants baseball team. He's wearing a white shirt, dark jacket and a big, fat bow tie! It's a light brown with big red and blue polka dots! BWAH!

Of course, he has a head full of WHITE hair, too. heh

My cheek is still swollen. I look very 'jowly' and it's quite attractive. [/prevarication]

[claytonic]

But I will say, it is you who have made the biggest assumption of all.

Oh really? I could say the same about you. You've made some pretty big assumptions as well.

You chose to make a big thing of the word "seem", when what I was trying to say was that many people say to me, "oh, the Asians are so smart", in fact, they don't know about the amount of work and sacrifice that went into "being smart", they think Asians are born with a "smart gene" and have an easy ride through school. No race has that kind of advantage. What they have in terms of advantage is attitude to hard work. And when hard work meets natural intelligence, the sky is the limit.

Actually, I meant it as a compliment that Asians value education and hard work, since I've been harping on about the importance of education. But you chose to see it as an insult. That's because you have made assumptions about me that are so totally WRONG.

[FearofH2O]

Good luck with selling your memorabilia clayzorback. I couldn't get into your link as I'm not a member of yucka (sp).

My husband would have to get rid of his golfclubs and tools before I got rid of my Clay stuff. That's why we have our own checking accounts.

[Couch Tomato]

My husband would have to get rid of his golfclubs and tools before I got rid of my Clay stuff.

sing it loud!

Although I can definitely see it becoming a problem. Clay is a costly little habit.

[cha cha trusty]

My husband would have to get rid of his golfclubs and tools before I got rid of my Clay stuff.

sing it loud!

Although I can definitely see it becoming a problem. Clay is a costly little habit.

I've thought of selling some of my stuff. Not because of any mandate from mrchach, but because I need the money!!

[bottlecap]

I consider all my Clay crap memorabilia to be part of my retirement account, so Clay better darn well be singing and still maintaining a high profile in 25 years or so when I need to start selling crap valuable vintage collectors' items in order to pay my bills.

[muskifest]

I'm lousy at keeping memorabilia. Just like I'm lousy at keeping family 'history' like photos, videos, scrapbook things. I have a couple of boxes that mostly have Clay stuff in them, but there are ticket stubs and keychains and pins and playbills dotted here and there and everywhere, too.

Oh...while I was in NYC, Alex used one of the cars most of the time--I'd left my keys. When I got back home I was looking for my keys and couldn't find them. I rifled through the various clumps of keys at 'Key Central' in our house, checked various pockets, etc....but couldn't find them. I started getting nervous that maybe I'd taken them with me to NYC and LOST them!

Then Alex oh-so-casually said, "Oh, by the way, Mom. I took the Clay picture thingy off your key chain."

No doubt she was too embarrassed to be seen with such a thing. Not too embarrassed to use my car, though of course.

And THAT'S why I couldn't 'see' my keys! They'd been hanging there amid the other various keys all the time, but without my Clay picture thingy I didn't recognize them!

Now I've got that feeling that I get after telling my kids a 'story' about something that I think is funny or interesting and then Alex says in that dry, sarcastic way she's perfected, "Great story, Mom. Yeah...really....interesting."

heh

[cha cha trusty]

BTW - I couldn't get into that board to see the stuff she's selling either.

[me myb]

That picture of Clay and the boys is fast becoming one of my favorites.

I think it is because I feel it shows me a glimpse of the real Clay - not the celebrity I always see really. Looks like a bunch of guys comfortable in their friendship, fooling around, being goofy, dressing silly. I can see them laughing and flirting and being outrageous with the whole cast and having a ball. Then posing for pics to laugh at again later.

Yes, I think I like it. Maybe next month I wont, but today it brings a smile to my face.

I am interested in a few things that are up for sale. Wow, quite a lot of stuff to get rid of. I don't know what I will do when the time comes for me to pare down the souvineers!

[Jaycee]

just because someone doesn't like/agree/understand something Clay says or does it doesn't mean that they have a problem with him being gay.

But what exactly has Clay done or said for someone not to "like" here?

It's a picture. It's only a picture. Clay didn't publicize it, he might not have even seen it and he isn't doing anything in the picture except standing there. WTH?

Ok. I seem to start off my posts by saying that I probably shouldn't say it but here I go.

The picture in and of itself isn't the thing, it was just the latest thing.

I am just going to mention one thing that has happened and you all will probably decide that I am a nut case but here goes anyway.

You remember the Billboard award when afterward Clay called it a filthy little show or something like that, he appeared to be offended by it. I didn't like it either and certainly understood how he felt, his mother was sitting there.

So then go to Spamalot and the French Taunters. From the description that I read they were getting pretty raw by the end and also from the description, Clay was enjoying it. I know that most people liked that part of the show, I personally don't think I would have, but that is just me. The thing is, Faye was in the audience for that also and to my mind what went on there made the Billboard Awards seem very mild. I know Clay is older now but I never think that appreciating that sort of thing is a sign of maturity, so I don't think that has anything to do with it. You might be thinking that it is just a part of the show and he had no control over it. That is true but he was enjoying what was going on, not just putting up with something he had no control over. It is a change and for me not an appealing one. I know many fans love the fact that he enjoyed that and find the Clay of today much more to their liking.

I know that is just one thing again. The way I am feeling has just been brought about by a number of little things that when you look at them separately don't amount to much and certainly nothing to get terribly upset about. It is just the accumulation.

I do appreciate the chance to get this out and not be jumped on. even if some of you may not understand my feeling.

[cindilu2]

If you can correlate those two events, then I don't think there's any way Clay can continue to live up to your expectations/standards.

[Thankful4Clay]

I hope it is alright to post this here. I have to get rid of my Clay stuff. Please, don't anyone interpret this as me no longer being a fan. He will always have my love, support, and respect. I plan to continue following his career. It's just that I will be doing it from afar. I will still attend concerts and buy his cd, only no longer in multiples. I've been ordered to get rid of and to stop all the Clay memorabilia collecting. Per husband. Please check out this link and share it with your other friends. Thank you.

http://rebelsforclayaiken.yuku.com/topic/4439

I don't belong to yuku and can't see your link.

[wandacleo]

I've been ordered to get rid of and to stop all the Clay memorabilia collecting. Per husband. Please check out this link and share it with your other friends. Thank you.

Ordered????

[FearofH2O]

Jaycee, the distinction I see is that the Billboards made fun of people. The jokes were about putting people down. It was also homophobic. It was also on TV at a time when children could watch it.

The French Taunters are just being silly and mocking themselves. Monty Python is, to generalize, guy humor. The cast is almost all men. I'm pretty modest and I laughed and thought it was funny. I think they even tried to make each other laugh. Plus they warn parents that it's not appropriate for children under a certain age. If fans went there and were offended it's their own problem as they were warned.

TV and Broadway, very different things.

I won't try to convince you but I was shocked at Pink humping something or someone in prime time. MP I expected it to be very silly. That's what it's all about. My husband saw it three times and loved it. I think it gave him a lot more respect for Clay, who did a fantastic job.

[jamar1700]

I know many fans love the fact that he enjoyed that and find the Clay of today much more to their liking.

But has Clay ever commented on liking that particular part of the show? Did you see him enjoying it? Or are you reacting to fan speculation?

FWIW his back is turned during most of that scene and his character is seemingly horrified by the taunters.

Not to mention that everything he does on that stage during the show is a performance. He can't really let his personal feelings be a part of it.

Do I think he enjoyed Spamalot? I suspect he did. Do I feel I can equate what he said about the BMA's which aired in prime time on national television to a musical on Broadway?

Uh-uh, not at all.

[me myb]

Jaycee, the distinction I see is that the Billboards made fun of people. The jokes were about putting people down. It was also homophobic. It was also on TV at a time when children could watch it.

The French Taunters are just being silly and mocking themselves. Monty Python is, to generalize, guy humor. The cast is almost all men. I'm pretty modest and I laughed and thought it was funny. I think they even tried to make each other laugh. Plus they warn parents that it's not appropriate for children under a certain age. If fans went there and were offended it's their own problem as they were warned.

TV and Broadway, very different things.

I won't try to convince you but I was shocked at Pink humping something or someone in prime time. MP I expected it to be very silly. That's what it's all about. My husband saw it three times and loved it. I think it gave him a lot more respect for Clay, who did a fantastic job.

Very nicely explained.

That Pink performance made me give my head a shake. Most of the Billboard show was kind of offensive to me.

I have seen the monty python movies and therefore expected what was on stage on Broadway.

Although I will not be putting any expectations on Clay's behavior ever again - which I may have at one time. If I found out he was walking down the street naked somewhere I would just think - well, there he is surprising me again! Except I do of course expect him to sing to me again eventually!!

[merrieeee]

Wow I guess some husbands are more understanding than others. My DH lives out of state and only comes home once a month. He plans on coming home next weekend. I told him I was going to GFI and he said OK he'll just come home, go visit our daughter and that I should have fun on my trip. He has no problem with my having a pretend gay boyfriend. Hmm can I keep both of them? Yep, I think I can.

[cha cha trusty]

If you can correlate those two events, then I don't think there's any way Clay can continue to live up to your expectations/standards.

(bolded part) Especially if you haven't even seen the French Taunters scene.