#16 Veins flowing with personality, thighs dripping with character.

[Clayzorback]

I'm just praying that some of the people who declared they were leaving the fandom over this supposed tour went ahead and left before the blog. (Oh, that we should be so lucky!)

We would never get that lucky. I don't even consider a lot of them fans anymore. They are just here out of habit and the friends they have made. They just stick around to make everyone else's fandom miserable. JMHO

Is it possible...could it be even remotely possible that I would rather read the angsting, hair pulling posts over the "I knew it all along...thank you, thank you, thank you Clay, I knew I could trust you" shit?

Shoot me now.

Pass the bullets.

Yeah that can be a bit OTT too. I honestly keep trying to read other boards but it is just too OTT for me to digest.

I'm just to thankful that my love of all things Clay Aiken hasn't led me to feel any entitlement to his choices in life.

Please, Please, Please, if I should ever post that I'm disappointed in some choice he's made - just hit me over the head and send for the men in the white jackets.

All I ever want from that man is for him to continue to sing to me, entertain me, keep getting gigs on TV so I can be grinning from ear to ear, trying new things that amuse him because they will then, for sure, amuse me, wearing cutting edge jeans (tight) and gorgeous designer suits and jackets with the casual elegance he exudes.....................and once, just once before I die............perhaps front row tickets....

I think its ok to be disappointed in choices Clay has and will make. I know I have been in the past, and am sure I will be again in the future. I think the difference lies in recognizing the fact that they are HIS choices to make - like them or not. It is HIS life and HIS career and he has to make choices based on what HE thinks is best for both. Not what I think is best - or what any other fan thinks is best. He has people in both his professional and personal life that he trusts and whose opinions he values. If he wants advise and feedback, he can go to them.

I think it is unreasonable to think any of us will agree with Clay 100% of the time. I doubt any of us agree with our loved ones in real life 100% of the time, but that doesn't change the fact we love them. If Clay does something I don't agree with, it is up to me to deal with it. I don't have the right to expect him to bow to my wants and needs (althought there are certain wants and needs I would like him to bow too..... ). And while I may express my displeasure on a message board, I HOPE I will never rant and rave and yell at Clay and expect him to change his plans to accommodate ME!

And if I ever do - please someone hit me!

Claygasm, you make several good points in this post. I really wish some of the fans could realize that not only are they HIS decisions to make, he is the one that has the most and the best information on which to base HIS decisions. I don't think there is one among us that feels we've never made a bad decision, but usually we only get second guessed by possibly a few people after we have actually made that bad decision. Unfortunately ,Clay gets second guessed by lots of know it all fans quite frequently when he hasn't even made a decision.

At one time I was proud of the power that I perceived that Clay's fans had and that they wanted to use it to support him. Now I'm disappointed in the power they think they have and that they seem to want to use it to control him. I know this is a small percentage of his fans, but man they are so vocal. I'm glad that Clay is a strong man.

I'll put Canuck's statement a different way, for me. If I get to the point that I am unhappy as a fan more than I'm happy, I hope I'll just go away quietly on my own, and no one has to hit me.

Great posts. I agree with the sentiment and logic.

I went and looked at the Billboard article again this morning. Something stuck out to me. The title clearly suggests that this is all still in a "will it or won't it happen stage" when they put a question mark at the end. It seems to me that Kim was just stating that they had discussed it, bandied about a possible title for it and that if it materializes, it would be Spring. I believe her when she states that Clay and Ruben were on board for it at that time.

Look. I don't believe that Clay is going to change his mind about anything, in response to his OTT fans' griping, the Kim Ruben hater fans, or his know it all marketeer fans, or his fans who work in some capacity in Entertainment telling him how he should conduct his career. Wish those type fans would just STFU. Don't they realize Clay is not even remotely interested in what they have to say and that other fans are sick of listening to them? Apparently not. Clay will make decisions about his career based upon his comfort level and the bottom line. MONEY. That's my opinion.

Whether it was Clay's idea or Kim's or Rubens really is no big deal to me. He stated it was Kim's in his blog and I acknowledged it. I don't think that makes me patently continuing to speculate about it. However I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility, for anyone, to think it might of been his idea before he blogged stating it wasn't. He clearly has a history of wanting to support and showcase his friends, as is evidenced by his showcasing Quinna and Angela in his tours, and most recently Fantasia in his blog. I don't think he changed his mind about this tour due to the angst thread the last couple of days. Heavens no. What I do think is possible is that he did ruminate and consider this tour as a possibility. I believe it is possible that it might of been one of the projects he was referring to as recently as this last tour. I think that had this Billboard article, which was the cause of the angst, had not of been discovered, he might still be ruminating about it and he would not of had his hand forced to blog about it at this time. I believe it is fair to assume that this tour could have Clay Aiken all over it because of his past history of trying to support his AI friends. He said it is not going to happen and I appreciate that he did blog and respond to the angst. I hope he always does. I just wish his fans could let him be the one to bring something up first when he is good and ready.

[keldanker]

Well, waddayaknow, alls we had to do was wait a couple days to find out the truth of the thing. What a concept, huh? FWIW (not much), I didn't like the idea but I would have gone anyway, because I'm easy.

Since I saw the second blog first, I didn't have that WTF moment. I did spend some time last night reading blog responses. That was my WTF moment. Spent a lot of time just shaking my head.

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

[Couch Tomato]

One of the things I admire about Clay is his ability to keep on doing the backstroke while everyone else is in the 500m Freestyle.*

thread title?

I think finding thread titles is my new addiction!

Bottle: I agree with your post. When I peeked out for 2 minutes I was SO disappointed in a post I read from someone I have such regard for and so the last so called expert in Clay Nation bit the dust. How will I muddle through life without them. But that's my question as well, where is the fucking leadership. I know I have nerve cuz we're small and have yet to have any serious issues and I'm quite sure I couldn't moderate a large board but damn! And asking, where are the apologies for Clay, is an editable talking about other posters offense? Where is the logic anymore? Clay deserves the same respect as any poster.

[bottlecap]

I think what disappointed me most about the whole debacle is the ugly, petulant, and demanding face that the Clay Nation revealed. Some people I wasn't surprised about at all, but there were a few who definitely lost my respect, maybe permanently, because I expected some leadership from them and didn't see it. It's a sad, sad situation, and hopefully it will die a quick and quiet death with a minimum of fan interference. Yeah, I crack myself up.

Anyway, :xmas07a:

[Kareneh]

Quick drive by before I drive out....The car is all packed and the only thing left to go in it is my laptop, the dog and my butt. You are about to witness the severing of the cord as it were.....I wish someone else was here to pull the plug, but when you're alone and getting out the door is up to you.....well.....one more page makes perfect sense. I'll make Houston on Sunday. I was booking my hotels for the trip home the other day and discovered I had enough Priority Club Points to pay for two nights hotel stay along the way. Just another perky thing all because of Clay Aiken.

I haven't been able to keep up with all there has been to read over the past few days but I have been trolling for pictures. Thanks for all the pretty that you've posted! I am hopelessly in love with this guy.....

Thank you, perusing one.

If I had a printer here, I'd have this taped to the glove box. Over and out, Here I go. Bangor or Bust!

[cindilu2]

Safe travels, Karen!

[luckiest1]

So I finally told her to stop trying to make me into something that I'm not. That we could be friends without sharing some great passion. She was really hurt. But she hasn't given me a recipe since and we are still, in fact, friends.

One of the things I admire about Clay is his ability to keep on doing the backstroke while everyone else is in the 500m Freestyle.* Somehow I think he knows all about the sacrifices you make when you try to be someone that your not.

Hee, I loved your recipe story and your swimming analogy!

I was disappointed with ClayNation and the back and forth on the concert issue, from both sides. I really just don't understand why anyone tries to debate the issue. Its just a circle game. But I know that not everyone feels like that and must debate or feel heard or whatever ... so I just try and stay out, once I posted my opinion, of course. :eusa_whistle:

I think that's about all you can do, is state your opinion if you feel like stating it, and then get the hell outta Dodge before you get torn to pieces. I have learned not to take the bait to respond anymore, because it doesn't make things any better. It's a hard lesson to learn.

It's a sad, sad situation, and hopefully it will die a quick and quiet death with a minimum of fan interference. Yeah, I crack myself up.

Hee, yeah, funny stuff. Not gonna happen, though. There are already fans meddling where they shouldn't be, IMO.

OK, off to rate more Classics audio!

[ldyjocelyn]

Warning -- LOOOOOOOONG post ahead. The scroll wheel is your friend...

...and I hope I don't mess up the quotes too much....

and here's my favorite KeepingFaith - thank you so much!

Just OH.MY.

I love Clay Aiken

This is my new favorite picture of him, I think. I love the way he's just resting there....so adorable....

I went and read his blog and then a few of the comments. I sure am glad I'm not Clay... some of those comments hurt me and I'm not even him, if you get my drift.

I did the same thing, and was immediately sorry that I did so. Good Lord, if some of these people are that demanding in RL...they'd be LONG out of my life. Would any of these people say these things TO HIS FACE? I truly wonder....and it scares me to think that they might.

Hmm - does anyone think that this fandom must have the messiest hair and the worst makeup in fandom - you know, because people never seem to look in mirrors, especially when assigning guilt.

So true my friend, so true.

I do have to say, I write these long comebacks and them delete them a lot on many boards, maybe I should do it here as well. I do research and then toss it - after a day, nothing is important. This was 9/11 day and I remember standing in the street watching the towers burn, thinking that there but for.... I has a weird feeling in 2000 that my Mom was Ill, she looked fine, drove herself around and sounded fine, but I felt something was off - so when I was offered 2 jobs - One in the WTC for a nice amount of change and one in NJ for a lot less, I chose the one 20 minutes from my Mother's house. She had a stroke 3 weeks after I took the job, so the gut feeling was correct. I had given my work and home numbers to all of the neighbors and one called me in time. I stayed in the lesser paying job after Mom died some months before September. Fate is odd. Still the stench was all over Secaucus for weeks after. Such a stupid time for people to be so upset overa concert.

Thank you for our daily reality check, play. Maybe we should post things like this every day, in order not to take our fandom so damn seriously.

But damn if it didn't shine a brighter light on ugly.

Yep. Damn it.

Just wanted to see this one again....

I realize Clay's not even in this one, but I really like this one -- what a cool shot.

And a few more:

ohhhh, mischief in those eyes!

beautiful good night, one to dream on

Simply LOVE both of these as well. Thank you AAIT!

I wish for those who were truly sad about this whole thing to feel better now. I wish for those who thought this collaboration could have been a rather interesting experience, some R&B and some blue eyed soul down the road somewhere, and I wish that all the people in Clay Nation who want to run Clay's life and are sure they know what's best for the man to shut the hell up now.

It's kind of a "Kum Ba Ya" moment, isn't it? Except the "run Clay's life" people would want to sing "OPP" instead, wouldn't they? But yeah, I want that too....

Someone accidentally linked this article to me today in an e-mail, http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/clay-ai...d-wins-1836.php. There are a lot of quotes from the Time article, and some fannish sounding stuff, but also some thoughts I found really interesting, like the Aretha comments. I was surprised how different the Time quotes sound to me now. When I think about this and the Classics banter, "So that's how you get on the radio, you sing about butts," when I compare the MTV show the other night with Clay's shows, then I see that it's really the same dilemma and there was nothing veiled about it then. Clay won. "Put some balls into it," says Clive. I can just see him saying it. And not recognizing that there's somewhere between "balls" and Manilow. This time Clay didn't win, but he still put himself into both the album and the tour, and I was impressed. I would never doubt for a minute that he could sell 100% Velveeta and enjoy doing it, but I think he also likes a challenge and likes to learn. He may not be introspective, but he is complex and a mature thinker. I don't think anyone needs to worry about him sacrificing art.

But the man loves his friends and he really doesn't want to be as big a star as some of his fans want him to be, and he does love him some cheese and glory noting and some more cheese. He was discovered on American Idol, Hometown Connection was his baby, he wrote (and I loved) the JNT05 story--this is who he is. I wish people would stop being afraid that he is who he is, and the kind of art he relates to, but give him a little credit too. I wish people would realize he is smarter and more knowledgeable about his own career than 99.5% of his fans, and just relax, get out of the management biz and settle down for a long and varied and entertaining decades long career. Sure it's fine to speculate about things, but it isn't fine to have a fricken collective existential meltdown over a piece of unverified, and, it turns out, false information.

And it isn't fine to then turn around and malign Kim Locke. No one knows what role she had in this either.

I agree with this except:

I don't really know if he wants to be a big star but I do think he won't sacrifice his principles for it and I really dislike cheese as a description of his music since I also like James Taylor and Johnnie Mathis who might also be described as such. However I never really liked Lawrence Welk and his show so maybe I'm not as sappy as I thought.

jmh, thank you for your post, and it is truly interesting to reread that article after a few years time has past.

Fear -- I think the main point in jmh's post is that there seems to be a very large disconnect between the level of stardom Clay wants vs. what several of his fans want. I do think he's ambitious -- but as you said, I don't think he'll sell his soul to the Devil to get to a fairly high level of stardom. I get the feeling that more than a few people would be totally thrilled for him to actually sing something like "I Like Big Butts" just so he could get on Top 40 radio.

And I embrace cheese. I don't care if that's what others call it -- I like the music I like, whether it be Clay, Michael Buble, Huey Lewis, U2, or Bobby McFerrin (with one of the cheesiest songs I know, "Don't Worry, Be Happy").

I've often thought that Clay just isn't cool enough for some of his fans and that it bugs the crap out of them.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yesssssssssss! *said in best "When Harry Met Sally" voice*

I've almost ALWAYS gotten that feeling from certain members of this fandom. That's why, IMO, so many want the top 40 accolades, the young chicks in the front row, the guys attending the shows...shall I go on? The need for "cool" is so prevalent in our society, and it really does make me kind of ill. Anyway -- is it because the media doesn't think he's cool either, and they feel the need to change that perception? Probably. But I also think that it could be really personal -- that we as a fandom are getting older, losing our youth a bit, while the rest of society values the young crowd. Hanging on to "lost youth." Another thing that makes me P.O.'d. Also, I do wonder if those that really want him to be "cool" are those that get picked on by those in their lives for liking Clay in the first place.

When he started adding the "I'm not cool" banter to his show, I really did take that as snark toward the fans who need for him to be cool. I'm sure it probably went over their heads, though. In my opinion, Clay Aiken IS cool, even if he is a total dork. I love cool dorks.

One of the things I admire about Clay is his ability to keep on doing the backstroke while everyone else is in the 500m Freestyle.* Somehow I think he knows all about the sacrifices you make when you try to be someone that your not.

*yes I know...swimming analogy/Clay ... bad. I still like it.

jamar, I love you. And yes, definite thread title material there.

Now, let's see what I need to catch up on while I've been composing this massive tome....

Safe travels Karen Eh?! And I like your taste in pictures. *g*

[windstar2]

Gah ... that picture with Clay resting his head on Q's back.

I miss him.

Safe travels Karen Eh. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

A dear friend sent me a DVD of the Tulsa concert. I put it in this morning and just hearing the beginnings of "HYCA" made me weepy. I sat in the balcony for this concert, which doesn't sound all that good but it turned out to be one of my most favorite seats evah. (And I had a front row table at San Diego and a front row pit seat at The Greek. Of course those were amazing seats as well. But I loved those balcony seats.)

I was about to say that his voice on "EIH" was amazing at this place, but there are so many "yell outs". Very distracting. Funny how I don't remember the yell outs during the songs at all when I think back on that concert. I must have been too busy listening and staring at that incredible man below me.

[Gibby]

I know I probably shouldn't post two posts right together when I could edit this comment into the earlier one, but I wanna see if I'm now a body guard!!!!!!!!!! BRB!!

ETA: Hmmm. Well. Maybe it's after 50, like at 51. Which is soon, actually, in more ways than post count! Guess I'll fnd out tomorrow when I make some other useless post!!

You crack me up, AAIT!! Yup, being a body guard is the best. Look at the fantastic body we get to guard!! And your pics are fantastic, as well. Thanks so much for sharing them.

Safe travels, Karen!

I'm a downloading fool this morning. I'm downloading almost all of Scarlett's WPB clack. I won't be able to watch it until tonight 'cuz I'm off to work. I'm gonna need to expand the memory in my laptop - there's still a slot for more memory. After that, it's a new hard drive. I have a ton of stuff on DVD, but I just can't bring myself to delete some of the most priceless stuff from my computer. Anybody else have that problem?

[Couch Tomato]

Clack! That's the key...oh and I should get started on rating my songs. heh.

There is so much to look forward to this year. So much to plan. I'm gonna try to just concentrate on that.

I took down the poll. 20th and 21st won but I hope the folks who voted for the other day can join us at all or some of the chat. I'll post topics later tonight.

[JennaZ]

I've often thought that Clay just isn't cool enough for some of his fans and that it bugs the crap out of them.

When he started adding the "I'm not cool" banter to his show, I really did take that as snark toward the fans who need for him to be cool. I'm sure it probably went over their heads, though. In my opinion, Clay Aiken IS cool, even if he is a total dork. I love cool dorks.

I so agree with you both, ldyjocelyn and jamar. To me, his "I'm not cool" was a very clear and direct statement, though told in a funny, lighthearted way. I think he was saying, "Look--I sing sloooow songs. I'm NOT Justin Timberlake." But so many people still seem to believe he'd be a rock star if only RCA would let him.

Yes, it's not always easy to be a Clay Aiken fan. People may make fun of him. People may make fun of you. It's not like being a fan of, say, Usher. I do think some fans want Clay to be cool so they won't have to feel embarrassed or defensive about their fandom.

However, Clay is who is his, with all his own unique quirks and idiosyncracies. I believe he is ambitious, but not to the point of changing himself into someone he doesn't recognize. In fact, I suspect that's why he had the first "This is the Night" video scrapped, because he didn't quite connect to the edgy, angsty image it portrayed. He seems to be completely comfortable with being a dork, even if it means he isn't the most popular act in the universe.

Some fans, however, seem to have trouble reconciling who he is with who they want him to be.

[clayzedover]

Am happy that Clay finally resolved the issue of the "tour" that never will be. While it was a stoopid idea on so many levels, I was actually getting nostalgic about hearing Clay sing wih Ruben again. ONLY Ruben. Go figure....

Not advocating anything here, but I wonder if they would consider doing something jointly, like a "one time only" for their individual foundations some time down the road.

I was not proud of the fandom these last few days, or a few of its "leaders." Some should really consider the concept of "apology" to Clay. That's all I'm going to say about that.

So, when do I get to be a bodyguard? Guess at my post rate, it will be a while yet! But I'd love to guard his body. What?

ETA: Thanks Gibby! EEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! Gettin' closer to Clay's body! YAY!

Edited September 12, 2007 by clayzedover

[Gibby]

I think you only need three more posts to become a body guard, clayzedover!

[liney23]

I've been watching all the Classics clack in my quest to analyze BGB for The List. Man, the concert in Florida where he changed into the brownish shirt at intermission... IMO that is the sexiest Classics in the bunch. Don't know if it was the cut of the shirt, or the color or what, but he looked HAWT to the max! Only Orlando was sexier... that black shirt REALLY worked. Also, he wasn't quite as campy in either of those places, so the whole performance was sexier. Wish I had pics to illustrate, but I don't have time to go looking.

I agree with the opinions about many fans thinking Clay is not cool enough. My analysis is that there is a LOT of fear of loss involved. If he doesn't do this, we'll lose him (and all that goes with him), if he doesn't look like that, we'll lose him, etc. When people don't trust, they try to control. And, the anomymity of the internet lets them be very vocal about it, unfortunately! I think one of the things Clay is here to do is to bring the message that being yourself is the coolest thing you can do.

This whole journey has been quite the ride. Clay has seen the good side of his fans (Wagons/UNICEF/Gala) and the bad side (booing/angsting). Good thing he's a VERY smart man and has those titaniums.

And, one of my faves, just cause all this serious talk needs something superficial to finish it off...

[KAndre]

I was doing a skim of an online Newsweek article, when this paragraph caught my eye:

If we examine ourselves and those around us—the husband who shuns picnics because he can't stand the texture of grass, the co-worker who can't get along without those billion organic remedies on her desk—we have to admit that everyone, to some extent, is odd. The terms "normal" and "abnormal" are subjective—words whose interpretations can be as varied as the people who speak them. So when we worry about our kids' strange behavior, is it because they deviate from our own expectations of what life should be like for a "well-adjusted" 5-, 7- or 12 year-old, or is it because that little person in front of us seems to struggling way more than she should? "Parents need to ask themselves, Is this making him unhappy or just making me unhappy?" says Dr. Perri Klass, pediatrician and coauthor of "Quirky Kids: Understanding and Helping Your Child Who Doesn't Fit In—When to Worry and When Not to Worry." "Is he having a perfectly good time in school, but he's not interested in the things the other kids are interested in? Or is he desperately trying to be part of something but doesn't seem to understand how? I'm not talking about a child who's a developmental emergency, I'm talking about the kid who's different."

and the bolded quote just jumped out at me. So much of the angst and complaining and bitterness on the boards to me really isn't about Clay - it's about the complainers. Some admit it, many don't. And I think it ties into that "coolness" thing Clay was mocking.

I don't see desperately trying to be in the VMA crowd. I don't see him desperately wanting to be on the radio. I don't see desperation in one Clay Aiken. I see someone having a perfectly good time in his career. Clay really is just different, and the people who added to unnecessary angst in an attempt to make him like others just work my nerves...

KAndre sees herself on the top of the page and does her best King Kong chest beating impression...

[cindilu2]

Well I was vilified on the Clayboard for suggesting that some folks might owe Clay an apology.

I am certainly not speaking to those who merely expressed concern, or even dislike for the idea of this tour. I'm speaking to those who used words like 'loser' and 'career suicide' and 'opportunist' and 'fool', both about Clay and his friends. Especially when these things were flung at him before he ever uttered (or typed) a single word about the subject. If anybody really believes that these words aren't hurtful and mean - that these actions don't bear apologizing for... well I'll just say I hope you never consider yourself my fan.

[jmh123]

Here's a morning highlight reel of sorts--all quotes, no comments from me:

I have to rein myself in because I so wanted to tell some people that instead of the thank you thank you , they really should be saying sorry sorry. Seems I am not alone in that.

I did want to suggest a poll for the next topic of angst. Instead of the usual angst starters, it would be nice to see someone from this board start it. May i suggest "Why is Clay going to see a play in NYC, shouldn't he be working on that next cd for us? What a slacker." Somehoe I think I might be too late for that one.

Hmm - does anyone think that this fandom must have the messiest hair and the worst makeup in fandom - you know, because people never seem to look in mirrors, especially when assigning guilt.

*puts on choir robe and shouts 'Amen!'*

See, I think what gets me is that there's a NEED out there to blame someone for the tour announcement. Some are going to blame KLo; some will blame her manager or publicist; and heck, somehow Clay will probably get some blame too. (How did Ruben escape unscathed?) I just can't place blame on any one person though, for one big reason -- I just don't know how this all transpired. There are many reasonable possibilities, many of them already suggested on this board. And yeah, it could be KLo overstepped her boundaries. But unless I get to actually talk to either KLo or Clay in the next few years about this, I'll never know what happened. Therefore, no blame will come from me.

I know that humor usually follows angst. But I miss the good old days when snark was directed at ourselves, not cheap shots at Clay's family and friends.

For the people who think he reads the boards, if he does - he reads ALL the shit.

And speaking of the evil Houston Posse --- a few of Perusing One's pics from Ft. Myers:

I personally would never hold Kim any more personally accountable for her press than I would hold Clay personally accountable for his (I mean how then would I hate Roger?!? /snerk)... or anyone else who speaks with the media.

I really wish some of the fans could realize that not only are they HIS decisions to make, he is the one that has the most and the best information on which to base HIS decisions. I don't think there is one among us that feels we've never made a bad decision, but usually we only get second guessed by possibly a few people after we have actually made that bad decision. Unfortunately ,Clay gets second guessed by lots of know it all fans quite frequently when he hasn't even made a decision.

At one time I was proud of the power that I perceived that Clay's fans had and that they wanted to use it to support him. Now I'm disappointed in the power they think they have and that they seem to want to use it to control him. I know this is a small percentage of his fans, but man they are so vocal. I'm glad that Clay is a strong man.

I do now believe that blog was pure serendipity as lilyshine called it. But damn if it didn't shine a brighter light on ugly.

Is it time to smash these up yet and make weapons?

Play, BWAH!

ClayNation is graceless. I discovered that through the ATDW fiasco and I believe it more fully now. Yep we can get together and do some amazing things for Clay now and then but it's simply not enough to cover the crap.

I don't know either Claygasm but they are on their fuckin' high horses now and the nasty stuff is now starting on her TWoP thread. ClayNation is graceless. I discovered that through the ATDW fiasco and I believe it more fully now. Yep we can get together and do some amazing things for Clay now and then but it's simply not enough to cover the crap.

Yup - and they are talking about is as FACT!!

I hate this fandom sometimes. No maybe not hate - but I sure as hell am embarrassed of this fandom. And you know what happens? It is talked about AS FACT by certain people on some boards who some believe really know what they are talking about and then those quotes are taken to other boards where it is then taken as fact and before you know it, if you don't believe it is fact, you are an idiot!

We saw it pre-ATDW. I hate that we're seeing again. Will they ever learn? We as fans know nothing unless Clay tell us - and even then we know sometimes he doen't get his facts straight!

[jmh123]

Part 2:

Sure it's fine to speculate about things, but it isn't fine to have a fricken collective existential meltdown over a piece of unverified, and, it turns out, false information.

And it isn't fine to then turn around and malign Kim Locke. No one knows what role she had in this either.

Hmm - does anyone think that this fandom must have the messiest hair and the worst makeup in fandom - you know, because people never seem to look in mirrors, especially when assigning guilt.

I go to bed early and you guys party all night.

<snip>

I really dislike cheese as a description of his music since I also like James Taylor and Johnnie Mathis who might also be described as such. However I never really liked Lawrence Welk and his show so maybe I'm not as sappy as I thought.

I went and looked at the Billboard article again this morning. Something stuck out to me. The title clearly suggests that this is all still in a "will it or won't it happen stage" when they put a question mark at the end. It seems to me that Kim was just stating that they had discussed it, bandied about a possible title for it and that if it materializes, it would be Spring.

Well, waddayaknow, alls we had to do was wait a couple days to find out the truth of the thing. What a concept, huh?

When I peeked out for 2 minutes I was SO disappointed in a post I read from someone I have such regard for and so the last so called expert in Clay Nation bit the dust. How will I muddle through life without them. But that's my question as well, where is the fucking leadership.

I think what disappointed me most about the whole debacle is the ugly, petulant, and demanding face that the Clay Nation revealed. Some people I wasn't surprised about at all, but there were a few who definitely lost my respect, maybe permanently, because I expected some leadership from them and didn't see it. It's a sad, sad situation, and hopefully it will die a quick and quiet death with a minimum of fan interference. Yeah, I crack myself up.

I've often thought that Clay just isn't cool enough for some of his fans and that it bugs the crap out of them.

When he started adding the "I'm not cool" banter to his show, I really did take that as snark toward the fans who need for him to be cool. I'm sure it probably went over their heads, though. In my opinion, Clay Aiken IS cool, even if he is a total dork. I love cool dorks.

I so agree with you both, ldyjocelyn and jamar. To me, his "I'm not cool" was a very clear and direct statement, though told in a funny, lighthearted way. I think he was saying, "Look--I sing sloooow songs. I'm NOT Justin Timberlake." But so many people still seem to believe he'd be a rock star if only RCA would let him.

Yes, it's not always easy to be a Clay Aiken fan. People may make fun of him. People may make fun of you. It's not like being a fan of, say, Usher. I do think some fans want Clay to be cool so they won't have to feel embarrassed or defensive about their fandom.

However, Clay is who is his, with all his own unique quirks and idiosyncracies. I believe he is ambitious, but not to the point of changing himself into someone he doesn't recognize. In fact, I suspect that's why he had the first "This is the Night" video scrapped, because he didn't quite connect to the edgy, angsty image it portrayed. He seems to be completely comfortable with being a dork, even if it means he isn't the most popular act in the universe.

Some fans, however, seem to have trouble reconciling who he is with who they want him to be.

I was not proud of the fandom these last few days, or a few of its "leaders." Some should really consider the concept of "apology" to Clay. That's all I'm going to say about that.

Well I was vilified on the Clayboard for suggesting that some folks might owe Clay an apology.

I am certainly not speaking to those who merely expressed concern, or even dislike for the idea of this tour. I'm speaking to those who used words like 'loser' and 'career suicide' and 'opportunist' and 'fool', both about Clay and his friends. Especially when these things were flung at him before he ever uttered (or typed) a single word about the subject. If anybody really believes that these words aren't hurtful and mean - that these actions don't bear apologizing for... well I'll just say I hope you never consider yourself my fan.

[Gibby]

I agree with the opinions about many fans thinking Clay is not cool enough. My analysis is that there is a LOT of fear of loss involved. If he doesn't do this, we'll lose him (and all that goes with him), if he doesn't look like that, we'll lose him, etc. When people don't trust, they try to control. And, the anomymity of the internet lets them be very vocal about it, unfortunately! I think one of the things Clay is here to do is to bring the message that being yourself is the coolest thing you can do.

I totally agree about people being afraid of losing Clay if he's not cool enough. It's very ironic that some people want Clay to be cooler than he is. One of the clear messages I took from Clay's book is how he learned to accept himself, nerdiness and all. And I think he's been consistent in being who he is, without pretending to be someone cooler. I admire that about him so much. I think that's part of what makes him so charismatic. He's genuine, authentic and charming. It's refreshing, and people love it. I think he will have much more success in the long run being himself than pretending to be a cool, hip rock star.

[cindilu2]

I agree with the opinions about many fans thinking Clay is not cool enough. My analysis is that there is a LOT of fear of loss involved. If he doesn't do this, we'll lose him (and all that goes with him), if he doesn't look like that, we'll lose him, etc. When people don't trust, they try to control. And, the anomymity of the internet lets them be very vocal about it, unfortunately! I think one of the things Clay is here to do is to bring the message that being yourself is the coolest thing you can do.

I totally agree about people being afraid of losing Clay if he's not cool enough. It's very ironic that some people want Clay to be cooler than he is. One of the clear messages I took from Clay's book is how he learned to accept himself, nerdiness and all. And I think he's been consistent in being who he is, without pretending to be someone cooler. I admire that about him so much. I think that's part of what makes him so charismatic. He's genuine, authentic and charming. It's refreshing, and people love it. I think he will have much more success in the long run being himself than pretending to be a cool, hip rock star.

Bolding mine.

And you know what that makes him? The coolest 'effing guy on the planet!

[rcknrllmom]

Well I was vilified on the Clayboard for suggesting that some folks might owe Clay an apology.

I am certainly not speaking to those who merely expressed concern, or even dislike for the idea of this tour. I'm speaking to those who used words like 'loser' and 'career suicide' and 'opportunist' and 'fool', both about Clay and his friends. Especially when these things were flung at him before he ever uttered (or typed) a single word about the subject. If anybody really believes that these words aren't hurtful and mean - that these actions don't bear apologizing for... well I'll just say I hope you never consider yourself my fan.

AMEN!

[Guest Toots]

I do have to say, I write these long comebacks and them delete them a lot on many boards, maybe I should do it here as well. I do research and then toss it - after a day, nothing is important. This was 9/11 day and I remember standing in the street watching the towers burn, thinking that there but for.... I has a weird feeling in 2000 that my Mom was Ill, she looked fine, drove herself around and sounded fine, but I felt something was off - so when I was offered 2 jobs - One in the WTC for a nice amount of change and one in NJ for a lot less, I chose the one 20 minutes from my Mother's house. She had a stroke 3 weeks after I took the job, so the gut feeling was correct. I had given my work and home numbers to all of the neighbors and one called me in time. I stayed in the lesser paying job after Mom died some months before September. Fate is odd. Still the stench was all over Secaucus for weeks after. Such a stupid time for people to be so upset overa concert.

I'll bet that made you a believer of some kind. You have one smart gut there girl! I wonder how many daughters would make that kind of sacrifice for their parents. I guess fate was your reward for the sacrifice.

Some story!

[laughn]

KarenEh...safe travels! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Clay content...? I love his head on Quaina's back picture too.

< and this is too funny...Have Yourself A Smutty Little Christmas has a certain ring to it.

[wandacleo]

Well I was vilified on the Clayboard for suggesting that some folks might owe Clay an apology.

I am certainly not speaking to those who merely expressed concern, or even dislike for the idea of this tour. I'm speaking to those who used words like 'loser' and 'career suicide' and 'opportunist' and 'fool', both about Clay and his friends. Especially when these things were flung at him before he ever uttered (or typed) a single word about the subject. If anybody really believes that these words aren't hurtful and mean - that these actions don't bear apologizing for... well I'll just say I hope you never consider yourself my fan.

Well, if it makes you feel better. I completely agree with you. I think that some of these people fit the definition of a stalker. They have over-identified to the point that they believe they should control Clay's life and that he should do what they want OR ELSE. There are some sick puppies out there. I'm not kidding. I'm seriously rethinking this whole fandom thing---NOT in relation to Clay (that's safe), but in relation to the message boards and these vicious, mean-spirited people.

If I were Clay, I'd close down the OFC and just get on with my career, ignoring the boards altogether.