#16 Veins flowing with personality, thighs dripping with character.

[merryclay]

I think Tyra is good people. I love that they are friends. I hope Quiana had a chance to see her.

[Scarlett]

LOVE the convo on food...I just shake my head cos I grew up on dishes I wouldn't want to describe on the board. Scarlett should we tell them what dinuguan, kare kare, balut, bagoong, chicharon bulaklak...are? These are just a few of the more exotic Filipino delicacies...

*titters with glee at Ansa* You're as evil as the eHP! Oh, let me try: (spoilered to spare the queasy - scroll back up to couchie's pretty pictures up there! Nothing to see here!)

dinuguan - pork innards in pork blood stew

kare-kare - oxtails in a peanut-based stew

balut - boiled fertile duck or chicken eggs (usually about 15 days old, noting that chickens hatch after 21 days and ducks hatch after 28 days)

baggoong - shrimp paste

chicharon bulaklak - crispy fried intestines

but the main party dish is still lechon (roast suckling pig) and I don't see that as too different from NC barbeque since we chop up some of it to cook in vinegar and peppercorns.

And thanks again, Scarlett! The WPB is exquisite so far. That night Clay was gorgeous, his voice was flawless, and the venue was divine.

Thanks! Sorry to make you wait some more, but I messed up the stuff I worked on last night - ATD audio tacked on everything. Need to try again and NOT listen to him while rendering.

Favorite memories - the bus line in San Diego, meeting Ansa, meet and greet in New Hampshire, Clay friends in my own backyard turning into real friends - Salud/Muskifest, hanging out with Scarlett and KAndre and Toffee and SOL in AC --seeing the clack stash live and up close and personal heee; The lobby of the Borgata after the final JBT; Recalculating!! <snip>OMG mayo on french fries? heee..that's a new one for me!!

I loved that room at the Borgata with it's superfast Internet connection and the plasma TV that KAndre "convinced" them to get us.

I'm with djs on the mayo on fries except that I mix the mayo with ketchup. djs111, It was great to see you again last summer! I have good memories of our long car trip -- I've spent the most time together in a car with you and traveller (13 hours) in one spell, longer even than I've done with Solo. Of course my total mileage with Solo is somethng else. Sigh, you got me in a reminiscing mood, couchie!

Thank you, ldyjocelyn & atinal -- I sometimes miss posts when they're close to pretty pictures. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[ivy]

djs111

YWT-gate was nasty too - I guess I could see why some people didn't like it, but there was such a meanness for a while. And individually not caring for it? Fine, but then some made blanket statements that their part of the country was too sophisticated for that sort of thing, and would exit en mass - didn't happen, tho.

I still can't believe the brouhaha over that song with pages and pages and pages and pages of angst. I used to be very sympathetic to people who had different opinions and were so upset, when I first came on the boards. But then I learned better. It never stops. It is always about them and there is always another crisis just around the corner. I value my fandom and my happiness so I'm not going there ever again even in sympathy. They wore me out.

So then I started to regard some of the people who got quite vitriolic and mean as just people I would not want to know in real life, people I would not, for instance, care to invite over for dinner. Yes, I know that they wouldn't want to come over for dinner - but that makes it a win-win, really.

You said this so well, I just have to quote you. I feel the same way.

There is a difference between snark and not even thinly disguised swipes at Clay & Co., and I am pretty sure the people who engage in that practice are quite aware of that. I guess another turning point for me was when suddenly snark could not be directed at ourselves, because it might hurt someone's widdle feelings. Hurting total strangers' feelings is O-Tay! though.

This is mostly where I'm at today with the snark vs thinly disguised swipes at Clay & Co. I'm not stupid and there are people who like to stir things up with snotty comments. I can easily put them on ignore and do that even without the fancy tool that sets them to ignore. The part I'm having trouble with isn't even in the good fan/bad fan category. Yes, I read that a few fans think that Clay is gay. The same ones say it all the time. Yawn. What's the point of the repetition!

But beyond that and beyond the nasty swipes, which can be a thin line to attempt to measure (which we can't), it's the ones who do this on one board then crow about it on other boards while ridiculing the rest of us on those boards, who in my mind don't even fall into the fan category. I will not mention any names or boards. Even without specifics, I think we can recognize that there are trolls and meanies who get their jollies out of stirring things up and deliberately hurting the feelings of others. They can stop now. They got to me for awhile but I have their number and, well see the above quote about not wanting to know these people in real life.

My fandom ebbed a little, not because of Clay but because of the message boards and the things above which I let get to me. I can't say that I'm totally past it all, but today I try to chuckle at those who try to create chaos. They may think I'm naive or little miss housewife who isn't as good as they are or as sophisticated, but it don't matter to me.

[jamar1700]

Oh my. Lots of great stuff. Too much to comment on individually. Darn early all day meetings in other towns. But I have tomorrow off so watch out. I plan to play posthooch all day!

I love this place!

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

Edited September 13, 2007 by jamar1700

[lilyshine]

I remember reading at CH a post a while back that told of an appearance shortly after AI2 and Clay was waiting to go on and there were a bunch of hunky male models or somesuch also in the room and, apparently, ALL the women were enthralled with Clay - HE was the alpha male in the room (and this was during the spikey-do days) and the hunky males were going WTF?? wondering what was going on. I wish I could remember the correct details - maybe someone else could help me here. It cracked me up though and I could understand those women perfectly!

There was also a thing he did on one of the morning shows where they had one "hunk" from every state. Yes, Clay in all his goofiness and tiredness was sexier than any of them.

Thanks, Couchie, for making a list of the good times and the fun things. For me, the fun must outweigh the downers or I disappear, but I think it is just human nature to invest oneself more in the angst than in the fun.

Tragedy always moves me more than comedy.

I love the Clyra and hope it continues. She is a strong smart lady, not to mention beautiful.

BTW I have Last King of Scotland sitting by my TV. I'm not sure I really want to watch it. Is it worth getting my courage up one day soon?

[cindilu2]

Yes, Clay absolutely has an OTT, overly-invested internet fan base. But it's those same overly invested OTT fans who voted their fingers off when he was on AI, who have bought the major portion of the 5 million or whatever in cd sales, the $30 million in concert tickets, and raised the hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, in support of his charitable endeavors. I am one of them. They are me. I am proud to be an overly-invested Clay Aiken fan, [small voice] even if they embarrass me sometimes.[/sv]

[/end ruminating]

kiermar, forgive me for snipping your thoughtful post. I really wanted to speak about this part yesterday, but thought I might try to move instead. Didn't work. This paragraph though, to me, really speaks to the core of the reason so many people feel no compunction about the (re)actions of the past few days. Indeed, it's likely at the heart of many of the 'gates' mention over the last few pages. Ownership. We voted for him, we supported him, we own a piece of him.

Yes, I (we) have spent copious amounts of money and time on CD's and concert tickets, fan-club memberships and sundry swag. And you know what we are entitled to in return? CD's and concert tickets and a membership to the fanclub (and sundry swag). That's the quid pro quo. Not a say in his career decisions. Most certainly not a say in his personal life. Still, I believe that this faction is a minority (albeit a vocal one). I think most fans are still here for the voice, the man, the joy. I know I am.

ETA: Damn, I should never post early in the morning. I really meant to add also, that I personally feel that *I* got the better end of that quid pro quo. For the price of a few cd's and concert tickets (and plane tickets), I have had the *best* four years of my life. And I'm not exaggerating. I met the best friend I've ever had - and she lives 600+ miles from me, in another country. I've met great friends who live only a few miles from me, and still I would likely never have crossed paths with them. I've visited places I would like never have seen. And most of all, I've been blessed to be part of the Clay Aiken experience. That voice - in the end, after all else is said and done, I get to listen to that voice. I have received oh so much more than I've given.

And if the day comes (not impossible) when the online part of the fandom tips the scales too far, I will just go away. But I will never stop being a fan of Clay Aiken.

Edited September 13, 2007 by cindilu2

[aikim]

Good Morning Everyone,

43 Days until Clay is Live at Lincoln Center!

54 Days until Clay Tapes The Skating Special!

74 Days until The Christmas Tour Starts!

100 Days until Christmas in Merrillville!

103 Days until The Skating Special Airs!

Everyone have a great day!

Kim

[djs111]

Yes, I (we) have spent copious amounts of money and time on CD's and concert tickets, fan-club memberships and sundry swag. And you know what we are entitled to in return? CD's and concert tickets and a membership to the fanclub (and sundry swag). That's the quid pro quo. Not a say in his career decisions. Most certainly not a say in his personal life.

Can't say it better than that!!!!!!!!

WORD.

Oh, and on the subject of overseas tours - don't know why Clay has not gone yet, am not all worried about it.

BUT - to assume that sending a singer overseas is some yooge priviliged investment? That will rocket a singer to the stars back here? Nope.

Mario Vasquez, for example - RCA invested a lot in Mario, and the sales were poor. So why not send him over to Europe, just to see if perhaps he catches on over there? It does not cost much, travel on business is tax-deductible, and ya never know what will happen.

To put it in some sort of perspective - David Hasselhoff. Very popular great-selling singer in Europe. here, not so much.

Constantine Maroulis went to the Philppines. Did that help his career in the long run? Maybe not.

I don't see a conspiracy, I just see a bottom line.

Edited September 13, 2007 by djs111

[aikim]

Jazzgirl Great first post and so glad to see you here! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Backing a winner...I think that is never so apparent than with the constant need to make sure Clay wins every poll, no matter how inane out there. I think for some, there is this thought that if Clay is not no. 1 in a poll, it will mean his popularity is waning, his 15 minutes are up, etc. Not saying I have never voted in a poll, In Style comes to mind, but I generally avoid them, especially when there are fans who have decided it is their job to browbeat you into voting for everything and make it seem like it is life and death.

Kim

[merrieeee]

A tall geeky redhead serves punch at his prom, is made fun of by his peers, looks at the picture of a supermodel on the cover of SI and dreams!

Fast forward 10 years;

He is still tall, geeky and sometimes a redhead, but now adoring women want to serve him punch, goes out to lunch with same supermodel, is now envied by those same peers and yet he still dreams.

How surreal this all must seem!

One thing that must not be forgotten is that those dreams are his and not ours. That's what some of his fans have yet to figure out!

[Clayzorback]

You can't legislate intelligence

Thread title?

Waves to lurkers - If the lurkers think I am talking about them, they have very inflated egos. I am not naming names, just talking in generality or specifically not mentioning identifying details. The odds are I never heard of them. So, if they have a guilty conscience, they should go say they are sorry to someone and they will feel better. I am a member of many Clay boards and lurk on many others, even if you recognize yourself, I am still probably not talking about you.

Play, maybe if someone is upset at what you or anybody is writing, then they can understand how what was said about Clay and his friends might feel to him. Maybe? Just? If they apologize to him maybe I'll reconsider thinking this fandom has serious issues. But I don't expect to see this or anyone recognize that the collosal breakdown of graciousness is a more serious matter than what happens in one little corner of the world. My two cents.

Just a general reminder that this is an open board with no back rooms and cubby holes.

Thank you for that too. I always found that to be so exclusionary and snobbish.

Good for you, ToldForThis. I really do believe people would feel better if they understood they over reacted to the first blog.

Fear - I rememberthe pigs feet in vinegar gelatin, but not pigs knuckles. I never drank celery soda, I had birch beer and I fed corned beef to what ever pet we had atthe time - ick. Dog or cat or goldfish or bird/chicken.

Fear and I were talking today bout the OFC. We were daydreaming that someone was tracking out and out insults to Clay and putting people on a no meet and greet list. See, this is where ToldForThis's apology would serve her well and get her off the list. Heh.

I think there is such a list and I think it has been around for awhile. If not, then I pray to God he starts one. I have seen some people get a meet and greet, or else buy themselves one at a gala event, that I bet if Clay knew who they were on the boards he wouldn't of let them anywhere near him. Too bad I can't name names. lol

Food, food, food.

I have a confession: I am from southern Kentucky and do not like grits. It's a mouth-feel thing. Eww. If they're cooked really dry and have enough cheese in 'em, I can stand it, but otherwise, no. Also not a fan of country ham (too salty). If not for my sworn allegiance to UK basketball, they would have kicked me out of the state by now.

Chitlins? No

Liver of any kind? No

Brussel sprouts? No

Salmon patties and fried potatoes? Yes!

Pinto beans and corn bread? Yes, yes!

My mom puts salt on jell-o. But only the jell-o from one particular restaurant.

It was about the rampant (hee) hubris that seems to permeate the collective fandom. There is immense pride about the amount we spend on Clay shi stuff, the number of concerts we go to, the amount of clack we collect, the polls we spam and on and on. Some of this may be justified, but there is an underlying neediness to be top, first, best that is disturbing at times. There seems to be a very real inability to let go and not control everything - including other people's feelings, thoughts and musical tastes. (Clayversion, anyone?)

Perhaps it is hubris that gives the fandom the sense of entitlement. The right to chastise Clay for putting on weight, for selecting which audience member to talk to, to decide on his own career path.

I definitely see that. It's where the insane "pecking order" that some people have comes from. The I'm "better" than you, and I "know" Clay better than you, so I can tell you what to do/think/say/etc. mentality. That's also part of the good fan/bad fan name-calling, I think. And to open a real can of worms, the almost...worship...that some people have for those fans with so-called "inside" knowledge. Not gonna lie, I'd love to be Clay's BFF (among other things) and talk on the phone and watch TV together and know all sorts of things. But #1 that's never gonna happen and #2 if it DID happen, I sure as heck wouldn't be posting on a message board about it. Makes me gag when people fawn over those "connected" folks. Ugh.

I also think some of the entitlement is a warped outgrowth of Idol. "We put him where he is so he owes us."

OMG, I so agree about the pecking order thing. I have always had a hard time understanding how so many people can be so gullible. To believe every word that comes out of the know it all, expert fans. To a point they refuse to even listen to anybody else when they make a post offering common sense.

Don't really care for chocolate

That's a hangin' offence! OMG who let you in??

You supply the rafter and a chair and I'll bring the rope. HaHaHa

Unfortunately there is nothing to be done. The "respect for other posters" and "no board on board" talk means no self examination, no dialogue, no fixing things for next time.

Self examination is good.

I agree couchie. Every board is entitled to make their own rules, of course, but I believe that being able to air differences and discuss conflicts is really necessary at times, and that things fester if you don't that can eventually destroy a board or at least, make people reluctant to post and drive members away.

Now the way you do the discussing is important, but I don't think you can make rules to make people be nice to each other. You have to foster an atmophere of trust and respect, and our admins have done a fine job of that. And what the heck is wrong with respecting Clay as much as we respect anyone else? I've never understood that. Sure, criticizing Clay is OK, but there's a respectful way to do it, and a mean and cruel way to do it. I don't understand why some boards allow so much of that, but, again, that's their right.

Y'all have read it enough already!

But I DO care, and am fascinated by, comments like jmh's above. I tend to agree with you somewhat; I might agree more if I had ventured to poke my nose out of here (which I did not).

But I'd LOVE to hear~why you think that is? What has caused the huge turnaround from the days of wine and roses....to the days of whine and noses out of joint? And do you think we'll ever get it back?

Some boards will never get it back, I hate to say it, but that's what I think. I think there's always been OTT behavior, just as I said in that post. But there's an atmosphere of hysteria that's become more and more prevalent. One cause, already mentioned by cindilu , the EW blurb, but more than that, some supersekrit message that went flashing around to the mods of all the big boards and other folks--the content of which I've never heard. This was closely followed by a barely veiled suggestion at the OFC that Clay wanted us to let RCA know that we all hated the idea of a covers album, and pretty quickly this became the accepted POV on the big boards--saying you didn't mind the idea could get you a big smack-down in a hurry. Along with this was a back channel suggestion, gradually made more public, like RCA was behind the tabloid shit in an attempt to control Clay and make him record those covers, and these grew into "RCA is out to destroy Clay": because he dissed Clive in his book, or they just don't like him, or he's leaving RCA after this album so they want to "devalue" him." Add in the Gnat and his lies, and the participation of a segment of the fandom in trying to "handle" that situation for Clay, and all of a sudden you've got a fandom that thinks we need to protect Clay from his "enemies" and that those enemies are everywhere. I can now and then get sucked into that one myself--it's a powerful force. That has its roots in AI, of course, the anomaly, and things that followed, but it's grown much, much worse, IMO. Instead of celebrating the joy, the focus has turned to smiting the enemies. That's just my take on it.

I felt I started seeing it before the JNT05, the nasty criticism of that show before it was ever seen really made me hurt for Clay

Good point--I hadn't thought of that. And the new songs on the JBT--not well received in board posts. I guess I haven't done a good job of explaining why I think the intense criticism and the intense defending go together. Others have done better with that today--hubris, entitlement, and so forth.

Putting sugar on grits amounts to a hate crime around here.

I can only hope that y'all can indulge in some deeeep self-reflection and see the error of your ways.

BWAH!!!!

The other food that I really don't like all that well, with one exception, is chocolate covered fruit. It's weird, because I love chocolate (the darker the better), but the combination of fruit with it turns me off. The exception? Fresh chocolate covered strawberries. Food of the freakin' gods.

You are me (except for the strawberries). Don't like fruit on my entre either. There are some restaurants these days where there's fruit in the butter, fruit in the bread, fruit in the entre, fruit in the chocolate, fruit in the martinis, fruit in the coffee, fruit in everything--me, I like fruit all by itself, and in pies and pastries and stuff, I like fruit mixed together, and fruit in yogurt, but that's it.

Spikesmom! So glad you finally posted. I've seen you lurking for a long time! I always thought of Buffy's Spike when I saw your name, you'll be happy to hear.

Is anyone else suddenly getting a pop-up window for bolding and ital. Whahappened??

Respect is the key. I have to say though, that it is hard to respect some posters and fans who simply have a closed mind attitude. Who then want to do a pile on, and have to do it to every poster that disagrees with their theories. JMH I agree with what you said, that I bolded above.

Some boards will never get it back, I hate to say it, but that's what I think. I think there's always been OTT behavior, just as I said in that post. But there's an atmosphere of hysteria that's become more and more prevalent. One cause, already mentioned by cindilu , the EW blurb, but more than that,some supersekrit message that went flashing around to the mods of all the big boards and other folks--the content of which I've never heard. This was closely followed by a barely veiled suggestion at the OFC that Clay wanted us to let RCA know that we all hated the idea of a covers album, and pretty quickly this became the accepted POV on the big boards--saying you didn't mind the idea could get you a big smack-down in a hurry. Along with this was a back channel suggestion, gradually made more public, like RCA was behind the tabloid shit in an attempt to control Clay and make him record those covers, and these grew into "RCA is out to destroy Clay": because he dissed Clive in his book, or they just don't like him, or he's leaving RCA after this album so they want to "devalue" him." Add in the Gnat and his lies, and the participation of a segment of the fandom in trying to "handle" that situation for Clay, and all of a sudden you've got a fandom that thinks we need to protect Clay from his "enemies" and that those enemies are everywhere. I can now and then get sucked into that one myself--it's a powerful force. That has its roots in AI, of course, the anomaly, and things that followed, but it's grown much, much worse, IMO. Instead of celebrating the joy, the focus has turned to smiting the enemies. That's just my take on it.

Hot damn - I said to my sister that there was some backwater action between mods from different boards - I said I like ATDW and thought Clay did as well and received the exact same smack down words from 3 different boards and 3 different mods! The only one where I did not recieve that smack down and was allowed to say what I wanted was the CH.

Yes, the JNT05 was interesting. I did notice that negative and positive reviews tend to come from groups of people who go together, feeding the group mentaility thing that seems to stand up even now. If you are with other people who are unhappy, you will report being unhappy, even if you were smiling and vice versa. We need more freethinking instead of group think. Or... maybe good company means a good time?

I think the problems predate JNT05 - I think it started innocently enough when people were studying the business and becoming unpaid "experts". The date of 6/06 was selected as the definitve date for the album release and most people accepted that this would be the date. As the date approached people started to get anxious about no release and a few people started looking for alternative dates. When Clay went back into the studio, there was some panic. The first inkling of cover information started with a troll on sucks - hey, even trolls can be right once in a while, apparently this was a troll with an agenda. I think the 06 issues just cemented the fandom as having to protect Clay. It was way beyond support, nope, it was protecting and being his main support.

Here is the issue - Yes, Keimer The OOT fans do support Clay, but these same protectors have driven the more casual normal fan away. I really do think, that although we have some new survivors here, that a lot of new fans get turned off real quick.

Boy howdy playbiller, do I ever agree with the parts I bolded. The busy body mother hen protectors. The OTT "Detective" fans. Outing the bad guys. Engaging the "swamp dwellers" fans etc.,have ruined this fandom in my opinion. Plus the "Read a few books and you'll become an expert and able to direct Clay's career for him" type fans too. They never recognize themselves either and are not embarrassed by their actions even if they do.

Sometimes when you are angry with someone, it helps to sit down and think about the problem.

Well, since we are walking down the memory lane of horrors.

Have you forgotten boobgate????

Or WDC and wicked-evil degenerate dancing?

YWT and the ranting and raving over his singing (GOD FORBID) a hymn??

I hate to say this, but the lunatics have been a constant force; they're just getting worse.

Had to quick skim b/c I'll never catch up on 30 plus pages.

Food: Best food in the world is Hog Maw, aka Pig's Stomach. It's a Pennsylvania Dutch staple and is the yummiest food EVAH!

Liver: Yum-O

Angst: What really bugs the shit outta me? When posters with definate opinions, you know the ones, they're always putting their 'expert' 2 cents in no matter what the topic, post in such a definative way that it seems they are always right, even if the only facts they have are the same facts that everyone else has. And if you question them, they get all up in your face and huff and puff and try to blow your house down because they are ALWAYS RIGHT, even if it's JUST their opinion, and if you try to offer a differing opinion, they shoot you down in a condesending condecending condescending way. However you spell that word. I don't think I explained that very well.

Tyra pictures: There are times that I think Clay is the most physically beautiful man I've ever seen. Even when he's not.

I forgot about boobgate! Is it bad that the first thing I did was get someone to photoshop my face over Mezghan's face? OMG, the charts and explanations and insistance that that photo was photoshopped was so funny. My little home board, Clayton's Place, we were high-fiving everyone and exclaiming that we got nipple on SNL and boobys were the icing on the cake. Good times.

Preach it sister.............High Five

YWT and the ranting and raving over his singing (GOD FORBID) a hymn??

I hate to say this, but the lunatics have been a constant force; they're just getting worse.

Hey, I was one of those YWT lunatics. First and last time. That's when I learned my lesson--let Clay be Clay. Heh.

Hey booksmart!! Welcome, and great first post!!

Is anyone else getting the box to insert a term for bolding instead the codes just going in when you highlight and hit bold??

oops, more coding mess to fix--no need to quote myself

Thanks for bringing this up. I thought it was my Firefox new updates that was causing it. It's now fixed. Horray for the tips Ansamcw & keepingaith

lightmyfire I read your post, many pages back, hee. I interpreted it that you were only trying to make a point. That point was that Kim does bear some responsibility for the Billboard article. I agree and I can see how people might of thought it was a done deal. Hell, I even bet it was. I didn't see you trying to bash her or blame her 100%. I have the same trouble as you do. I think I'm posting articulately but find I have explain almost every post I make. I think I'm posting in English but apparently it comes out in some foreign language........ Oh well. I've always said that I was the most misunderstood poster in Clayland.

keepingfaith thank you for sharing the convo about your lunch with your sister and friend. I will keep that info in my memory banks. Just in case my hubby wants to continue to try and kill his self. You would think he would learn. GIVE UP THE CIGS. You tell your sister that I was very happy to meet her, and you too. WOW, what a nice compliment she gave me. Thanks for sharing it. I sure needed an ego boost after weighing in at the doctors office yesterday. How in the hell did that happen? Must of been all that chocolate ice cream, biscuits & gravy, grits, liver & onions w/gravy, brussel sprouts. So on and so on.

Welcome to jazzy? Booksmart and Spikesmom

Well shit I messed up my quote thingy. I don't have time to fix it now. Maybe some nice mod or admin will. Or I will when I get home. Work is calling. Hell it took me forever to catch up on here, and it leaves little time to respond. Plus a lot to respond too.

Chick, these nested quotes are a booger - I'll work on it though! - KAndre

Heh, I was trying to work on it too....but won't have any more time....sowwy.... It might also be that she's got too MANY quotes and this post might need to be split into two...ldyj

OMG..hee that was like looking for a needle in a haystack...I also had to increase thenumber of quotes allowed to 50...geesh...there still may be some errors on what is quoted and what is the post but that will be up to clayzor to fix...ansa

By george I think you got it all right. This might be the first post that required 80% of the mods/couchie

[bottlecap]

Heh. Think that if Clay goes to his 10 year high school reunion later this month he might manage to drop that little nugget into conversation: "Yeah, when I was having lunch with Tyra in New York a couple of weeks ago, we discussed ______________"? I'm easily amused. "I was just talking about the candidates with Diana Sawyer the other day when I was at the ABC studios, and _________."

I have to wonder if this fandom developed an insatiable appetite for more and more stuff from Clay because there was just so darn much of it in the beginning - almost constant TV and magazine appearances and touring - so there was something new and exciting going on almost every day. When things settled down to a more normal pace without the constant news being thrown into the gaping maw of the fandom, something had to fill the void. Angst, speculation, impatience, fan "experts", trolls and whatnot became the new normal.

[champion124]

Yes, I (we) have spent copious amounts of money and time on CD's and concert tickets, fan-club memberships and sundry swag. And you know what we are entitled to in return? CD's and concert tickets and a membership to the fan club (and sundry swag). That's the quid pro quo. Not a say in his career decisions. Most certainly not a say in his personal life.

Can't say it better than that!!!!!!!!

WORD.

Yes, yes, yes. I buy Clay's CD's because I want them. Can't wait to get my hot little hands on them. I join the fan club because I want to be an Official Member of the Clay Aiken Fan club, and I rush to any and every concert and appearance I possibly can, because seeing him makes me happy. When he isn't thrilling me with the voice, he makes me laugh and he is never, ever, ever boring!

I don't do this whole fan thing for Clay. I do it for me...I am having a ball, I don't want it to stop. I am not buying a piece of Clay! He fascinates me. I love watching him forge a career in his own distinctive way. If he hands over his career, his decisions, to a committee of internet fans, then I'm not seeing Clay, I'm seeing them.

I know most of our local fans are still buying CD's, attending concerts and fan functions and always will.... they just won't come anywhere near the message boards. They are fans of Clay Aiken--but not message boards. I stay happy I think because I have very little time for the internet, I go to many boards, I enjoy the good and run from the crazies. I have friends from every board and so far...it working for me.

I need more time to savor all the great posts here...I'm babysitting my grandson today. He's 23 months old and keeps me running. And he eats grits!!

[cindilu2]

It's too far gone now to go back and clarify my 'EW blurb' post, but I did want to add that, yes, I think that was a catalyst, but it was the reaction, especially by some of the most venerated (right or wrong) online fans that fanned the flames. They not only validated the anti-covers sentiment (which inevitably became anti-ATDW sentiment), they encouraged it, albeit at first mostly through PM and back channels. There are some I will never forgive for it. This is of course, only my opinion.

Edited September 13, 2007 by cindilu2

[merryclay]

Sorry, I'm late to the party about OTT fans. I must confess that I'm a bit fangirly myself even though I know it's not cool. LOL!!! I really think there are so many different sets of expectations within the fandom, so many different personalities and backgrounds, so many different tastes in music with the one common denominator being that they think Clay's voice is a turn on and he's so, so handsome, talented and mysterious. So what do you end up with when you have all this intensity and lust? chaos, crazy behavior and jealousy. We say he's our collective BF, but do we really mean it? I'm kidding. This is a bit tongue in cheek , but it's almost true with a few variables. It's just like RL. It's a melting pot.

[ldyjocelyn]

Good morning FCA!!!!

The speed of this board at the moment gives me a bit of a headache, because I'm not used to waking up to 4 pages overnight. OTOH, I'm loving it, because the combination of goofy/silly talk about food, beautiful pictures, and just some good discussion makes me happy.

:F_05BL17blowkiss: to all the people who have decided to at least try to put their toe in the water around here. jazzgirl, you don't know how many times reading your post that I was saying "YES!!" And I've got to give a special welcome to booksmart -- I've met her more than a few times, and she really is booksmart (and a sweetheart to boot).

I have to wonder if this fandom developed an insatiable appetite for more and more stuff from Clay because there was just so darn much of it in the beginning - almost constant TV and magazine appearances and touring - so there was something new and exciting going on almost every day. When things settled down to a more normal pace without the constant news being thrown into the gaping maw of the fandom, something had to fill the void. Angst, speculation, impatience, fan "experts", trolls and whatnot became the new normal.

bottlecap, I totally agree with this. I've always said that "clack" was very aptly named -- to me, there was a true addiction to the constant barrage of stuff we got in the early days of this fandom. And for a while, it felt that some needed more and more to keep up their high. Well, now the supplier isn't giving as much, or maybe the quality isn't as good to the people needing their "hit." It's like people are getting the DT's. More than a few of your last sentence came to fill in the gap.

I truly worry about this fandom after the Christmas tour is over. At that point, "we" will probably know very little about what is going on in Clay's life and career. What will happen then? IMO, it's OK for an artist to have some time away from the spotlight -- it re-energizes the artist, but it also gives his devoted fan base time to "miss him" (working on the theory that "absence makes the heart grow fonder"). Yeah, some will get bored and decide to leave because there is nothing, and maybe some will go away permanently -- but I truly think that if word gets out that he's got something in the pipeline, people will come back.

I don't do this whole fan thing for Clay. I do it for me...I am having a ball, I don't want it to stop. I am not buying a piece of Clay! He fascinates me. I love watching him forge a career in his own distinctive way. If he hands over his career, his decisions, to a committee of internet fans, then I'm not seeing Clay, I'm seeing them.

Well, nothing else to add at the moment. I'm leaving in a few hours for an overnight conference, which means no checking FCA until nightfall. I may go through withdrawal symptoms....

Heh. I feel like Leo DiCaprio at the moment....

[jumpingjacks]

Oooh, the EW blurb...I remember getting smacked around pretty darned good because one of the "chosen" had an inside source (Roger) who said it was true and I questioned her...not because it mattered but because of the "I can't tell you who but I have it on good authority" crap...

That crap drives me NUTS. Put up or SHUT UP...I don't want to hear about your "inside sources who can not be named"...what a load of hooey.

I did hear she is sleeping with Clay now so, hey, that's all good.

[Gibby]

I did hear she is sleeping with Clay now so, hey, that's all good.

BWAH!

[KAndre]

Scarlett, nothing's wrong with that oxtail soup. Notice I'm leaving out a WHOLE lot.

Hey Jazzgirl - all I got to say is that I think you're firing on all cylinders.

wandacleo - loved that pic!

And I also think the fandom has had its share of real nastiness from the getgo...fan wars and all. As bad as some of the Kelly and Ruben fans were, there really were just as many just as nasty Clay fans. And then differing segment went apeshit over different things: WDC, YWT, LtS, boobgate, the Todd thing, hockeygate, Fran and the BAF, LA's rotting, the Xmas tours, ATDW...etc., etc., etc. And that just the internal stuff. And so many fans just went psycho over one thing. But sometimes that one thing was enough. And for me, since none of these things bothered me, it was like I was just being constantly whapped in the face by the extremists on both sides of the issue. And I mean constantly. Someone said the fandom has an ugly face now...well, it had an ugly face for a long time and I think others could see it much more clearly than we could.

Couchie summarized what I keep telling people:

He has a career people would die for but it's not enough. He has been able to sustain tour after tour after tour while some idols haven't been able to go out on the road at all. But it's not enough. He is amazingly talented. He is charismatic. He is funny as hell. He seems like he's happy and on top of the world. He's dating going to dinner with freakin' super models. He's recording an album and sharing wonder days with his friends. He has a tour planned for the end of the year. He has other events he will participate in. Yet an unconfirmed rumor made us act like he was going on next year's surreal life.

And I just have to shake my head.

However, the fans have simply reinforced something I knew before Clay...that I really don't like a lot of people. That I have to gravitate to the ones I can like (Hello, FCA! Kisses to the eHP! Hugs to all my minions and minion wannabes!). It's an ongoing process and working well for me.

And you guys are so right about experiences I would not have DREAMED of having - and I can have some pretty explicit dreams!

Using Couchie's template:

Places I've been that I wouldn't have gone without Clay or that Clay gave me an excuse to hit then: Top of the list has to be the AMAs - I didn't even know I could go - Vermont, New Hampshire, Boston, running around North Carolina, Tennessee, somewhere in freakin' North Dakota, little cities in Southern California, Tulsa, up and down the middle of Florida, Atlantic City...

Overwhelming? That again would have to be the AMAs - honestly Pam Anderson needed to put on some underwear, and Kid Rock just defines trailer trash but OH MY FREAKIN' GOD, I WAS ON THE FREAKIN' RED CARPET WITH FREAKIN' CLAY AIKEN AND RUBEN STUDDARD! We were no more than two feet away...and when I fell in total teen girl infatuation...just before security tried to get rid of me 'n abbyharp...

Just frickin fun? Grand Prairie IT...the genesis of the eHP...meeting the first of our GPSs...asking for "sugrbugr" at the front desk...singing loudly in the parking of the venue...being kicked out of the bar...security knocked on our doors...Vegas IT...couchie (who was soooo not blingy...driving around like madwomen in Brahmasatan's Mercedes and a total disregard for any and all traffic laws...the karaoke bar...the farmer from Nebraska...just getting to the North Dakota NAT...racing some dude in a POS Pontiac...finding out I had front row catwalk tickets on the way...Clay talking to me...$3 Long Island Iced Teas...odd Norwegian jokes...driving back to Minneapolis...Solo finding mountains for us to walk up and down in Atlanta for the JNT...waking up in a variety of hotel room with a number of dead-to-the-world female bodies scattered EVERYWHERE...cops, lots of cops...the bellboy trying to STEAL our beer in Atlantic City...watching Scarlett and her variety of camera smuggling tricks....convincing ourselves that Jerome had turned Scarlett into Homeland Secuity and how we were gonna explain to her husband how she got taken away and discovering that Scarlett just liked Jerome and hung out with him for awhile...eating at ptui White Castle...standing in line for Kimmel (repeatedly)...watching Couchie direct her sister to find those AC tickets....watching a variety of concert virgins get their cherries popped...Atlantic City, oh man...the Miata...watching people back up toward us on the NJ Turnpike...the butt of the Statue of Liberty...sales at Macy's...ice wine in NYC...the horrible hotels...the good hotels...the great hotels...listening to the geek girls in the eHP squeal over connections....there are so many memories....so much fun

Considering how long we been in cars together - it's has never been too long....

Man, I've had some good times...looking forward to more...

[ldyjocelyn]

I've added a thread for the South Bend, Indiana show on November 28 in the Holiday Tour section.

Good Lord, I need more coffee. Hopefully most of you didn't see what I did....

Places I'd never been before Clay: Boston, New Hampshire, Atlanta, Texas, North Carolina.

Overwhelming situations: arriving at a radio station, in December, at 4:30 a.m., with the temperature at about 10 degrees, just to watch Clay through a plate glass window for 20 minutes. Even getting there at 4:30 a.m., I wasn't at the front of the line. Heh. Also, front row in Boston, with one of Scarlett's many cameras in hand...when it was almost a 100 degrees! (Extreme temperatures!!! Hee)

Most memorable/fun times: taking over the Hard Rock Cafe in St. Louis with a bunch of CHers and Broads, dancing on chairs. Watching my husband shake he head several times as he watched the situation at the Hard Rock unfold. Finding food at 1:00 a.m. in Winston-Salem, and then staying up until 3:30 as I experienced, for the first time, clack gatherers and techies unload all their gear, hook it up, and upload clack. Watching a blue martini fly across the room over a white comforter in Tulsa (you know who you are...). couchie convincing me that going to Boston would be good and she'd room with me. The beginning of a beautiful friendship. Talking to Ansa for the first time on the phone this past summer. Another beautiful friendship.

Heck, all the beautiful friendships I've made in this fandom. Some have waned, some have gotten stronger....but all are special to me!

[bottlecap]

I've added a thread for the South Bend, Indiana show on November 28 in the Holiday Tour section.

Good Lord, I need more coffee. Hopefully most of you didn't see what I did....

I did and I'm pointing and laughing.

[KAndre]

I've added a thread for the South Bend, Indiana show on November 28 in the Holiday Tour section.

Good Lord, I need more coffee. Hopefully most of you didn't see what I did....

I did and I'm pointing and laughing.

I'm not pointing and laughing...just smirking...

[luckiest1]

Holy shit, did I finally catch up? I could swear I went to bed at the same time last night that I do every night...this is insane!

Angst: What really bugs the shit outta me? When posters with definate opinions, you know the ones, they're always putting their 'expert' 2 cents in no matter what the topic, post in such a definative way that it seems they are always right, even if the only facts they have are the same facts that everyone else has. And if you question them, they get all up in your face and huff and puff and try to blow your house down because they are ALWAYS RIGHT, even if it's JUST their opinion, and if you try to offer a differing opinion, they shoot you down in a condesending condecending condescending way. However you spell that word. I don't think I explained that very well.

Your explanation absolutely works for me. One of my biggest pet peeves, and one of the main reasons I am here and not there anymore.

Oh, one of my favorites, was when he added "Still the One" to the set list of the NAT and left out a verse and the fandom went nuts because they thought he didn't want to sing the line "still the one I want to wake up to in bed"

And that song brought us Angela's headlights and the "scratch my itch" gesture. I saw the latter for the first time in Syracuse and my mouth nearly opened to the floor. I was like, "I can't believe he just did that."

Hee, my whole body dropped to the floor in Greensboro, apparently. Funny, it's all a bit of a blur to me now....

LOVE the convo on food...I just shake my head cos I grew up on dishes I wouldn't want to describe on the board. Scarlett should we tell them what dinuguan, kare kare, balut, bagoong, chicharon bulaklak...are? These are just a few of the more exotic Filipino delicacies...

As a lover of most Asian ethnic foods, I was gonna beg you to tell, until eeep, I read Scarlett's descriptions. Yikes!

jazzgirl, what a great and thoughtful first post! I was gonna quote parts but I decided there was nothing I could cut out of it. Many of your questions are my questions too.

So why this? Why did this cause things to overflow like they did? Because if this was indeed true, this icky reunion tour with Ruben and Kim -- then who would be blamed. Oh yeah, some worked hard to bring this back around to RCA but really, it was weaker than the biggest conspiracy theories of 2006. They would have to blame Clay. They would have to believe that maybe he was not what they so believe he is. The Christmas special, and the JNT05 with the cheesy vingettes, and the loving Mr. Rogers and his mama, and moving back to Raliegh, and hosting Miss America were not anamolies after all. Cuz THIS sounded so like Clay right?

This is spot on, to me. I think that for the past couple of years, some people have been hanging on by their fingernails, growing more and more desperate that Clay might not turn out to be who they want him to be or who they thought he was. And they can't cope with that. They are the ones who I wish would just walk away quietly.

There is a difference between snark and not even thinly disguised swipes at Clay & Co., and I am pretty sure the people who engage in that practice are quite aware of that. I guess another turning point for me was when suddenly snark could not be directed at ourselves, because it might hurt someone's widdle feelings. Hurting total strangers' feelings is O-Tay! though.

Another things that drove me off other boards.

Two things I found out "right quick" when I moved to North Carolina from Illinois, years ago (I am now in Florida) - when someone says Hey! it does not mean I should stop and say What?, because I will be left standing there like a lost soul, and that the dead silence when I asked for unsweetened tea was not good. And it did not mean they had merely run out of it and were gonna brew some up just for me.

Hee, this cracked me up, having been to NC a *cough*few*cough* times in the past 3 years.

I know somebody can do better than this but because of Clay I've visited: Nevada, Utah, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, New Hampshire, Massachuseetes, Vermont, New Jersey, Teneesee, and GA. This Xmas I will add MN, NE and Indiana.

Well, I sure can't beat you (YET) but I've been to NC, VA, MD, WV, OH, NY, MI, IN and TN so far....soon to be in NV, and maybe even CA, AZ and UT if my daughter gets her way and we rent a car for some day trips.

My favourite early fan events? Probably the Independent tour Winston Salem CH party (my first NC trip) where I met my good buddies NCDonna and mandmlady and where I heard the Solitaire single for the first time in their van in the parking lot. The Hard Rock Cafe CB party prior to the Cleveland Jingle Ball concert, and the same prior to the Detroit IT. The CH pig-pickin' party at ebird's (yes, I was there, although no one seems to remember me *sniff*).

The most nerve wracking experience was again at the Winston-Salem IT, where I'd bought tickets from the wonderful geekette who I'd never met. I planned to get them from her at the party. Except she forgot them at home, in Raleigh. I stood outside the venue as everyone else streamed in, with a couple of other people who were in the same boat, and it got dark, and cold, and we could hear Kelly's set starting.....and then Mr. geekette showed up with the tickets, just in the nick of time! YAY!

Craziest thing I ever did was jump in a stranger's car and drive 6 or 7 hours to Dayton for yet another NAT show. Ended up being a good idea, though, because I had a wonderful busline experience, and of course it was a wonderful show (see ldyj's ISY clack for details, hee).

Most embarrassing moment: probably the STO one I described above. I'm still not sure it happened. I think maybe my daughter is just making it up to make me look bad. Oh I have another one, too. The Buffalo AI2 concert. I was sitting by myself, in the middle of a bunch of 205 shirts. I was decked out in full Claymate regalia - red shoes, red shirt, red glowstick, sign - and during Invisible, while I stood and cheered and danced and went out of my head, my glowstick burst from all my exertions and sprayed all over those nice 205 shirts around me. Oops.

Favourite memories - God, there are just so many. At least one for every concert I've attended. Watching my friend mandmlady's fangirly reactions at this years Cary concert, because she went in unspoiled. Watching Clay make a bee line for my daughter at the fence line (pre-cursor to the bus lines of today) after the Greensboro NAT concert. Just feeling overwhelmed with emotion during both of the Dort N'Arena shows in Raleigh on the NAT. Both of my Clio experiences - NAT and JBT - because it was such an amazing venue, it felt like sitting in Clay's living room, even when I was in the bleachers. Driving to those Clio shows in a van full of Claynadians. Driving through a blizzard to the JNT04 in Detroit with a bunch of Claynadians. No radio, no tape player, highways closed, so we took a little two lane road and we sang the whole way. We made it alive and on time, to boot! Then getting there and being greeted by people in the parking lot, much to my mother's amazement! The Toronto JBT, because going to a local Clay concert was such a different and amazing feeling. When he sang O Canada I got chills. Doing the Ohio twofer for the JNT05, and being squished in the back seat with 2 other people for 7 hours (somehow, I doubt cindilu2 will list this as one of her favourite memories! ) The final note of AIW in Merrillville last year. ETA: How could I forget the PANTSSSSSSS? Last year's Detroit Christmas concert, in the 4th row. It seems like a dream, now, since there's hardly any clack of it. Oh and of course this year's Sterling Heights concert, in it's entirety (including the pants). LOL. I could go on and on. I just can't wait to build more favourites this coming November and December.

:xmas07a:

Edited September 13, 2007 by luckiest1

[Couch Tomato]

OK so since I was up half the night and my ass is now dragging I'm going to do penance and actually work all day without lurking. OK I"ll check in only on my breaks and lunch. That's a good compromise.

I have to mention one more fun thing..being DEAD tired after a long day at work. Getting home prepared to just hit the couch, and getting a phone call from Salud saying I FOUND ALL IS WELL AT WALMART - I HAVE YOURS GET HERE QUICK. I jumped in my car like a bat out of hell. Get there, giggle over our 5 All is Wells. Then I call up Muski to tell her not to bother going there as we had them all and I had one for her..and her answering her phone in the Walmart over in the garden dept. Too funny. And Salud's husband is just the best sport ever watching as silly wimin giggle over our treasure.

Also great was discovering this past summer that I could have just as much fun on my clayventures on a smaller scale. And it's so much fun to meet new people too. Can't wait for Xmas. I've never been to that side of the world and look forward to meeting FCAers for the very first time and hanging with the eHP. I hope I can handle it. Only did it bits and peices before.

Have a great day everybody. See you at lunch.

DJS..last year... dog tired just seems to be a pattern

[djs111]

oooh! Is this the same AIW from last year? Any new tracks?