#16 Veins flowing with personality, thighs dripping with character.

[luckiest1]

I went to bed hoping this would all be past in the morning, but it's not. Sadly, it is the first time I've ever felt the need to scroll at FCA....not that that's a bad thing, since everyone is entitled to their opinions, it is just my personal preference to avoid all the controversy. But I luuurve all the pretty pictures! That one of Clay & Kelly just makes them both look so young and....dare I say it.....innocent. *sigh*

Kim and Clay - I really have nothing to say except I wish people would leave them alone, I understand some fan took it to send this in to WRAL and they had an announcement for it. I hope that person's keyboard breaks. If I knew who it was, I might offer to break it for them. Fans need to keep their noses out of all of Clay's public relations, and need to learn not to hit the submit key. I know where this will appear next as soon as they can find a way to spin it sadly.

:finger: to whoever was responsible for that. Makes me v.v. angry.

A bunch of whiny people elsewhere are saying "Thank you, Clay" instead of "I'm sorry" because he went and posted strongly about an issue and they take it as validation for the childish things they do. They're delusional. He didn't say "I'm with you guys. Pile it on." He didn't. For some reason, though, they must have sneaked some KoolAid into the jello because suddenly, "Clay's not always right". Yes, that's true and sometimes he's downright stubborn and foolish. But in this case, what was his fault? *still mystified*

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

[cindilu2]

For me the difference between calling something Clay wrote pissy, and calling him a jerk, is the same as the difference between calling something I said bitchy, and calling me a bitch. *shrug*

TGIF, y'all. It's been a long week. I need liquor!!!

[bottlecap]

Y'all know I hate having to make posts that require me to think, right? So this is all I've got. IMO, YMMV and all those fancy disclaimers apply here.

This is a message board, not a blog. Thus, it should be expected to flow as a dialogue, not come across as a monologue. Disagree, agree, go "Huh?", scroll at will, ask for clarification, what have you. Recognize there are different perspectives - many more now than there were in the recent past - and they should be respected. The loudest voice or voices don't automatically win and get to shut down the others. Strong words are bound to attract strong reactions. The Back button can sometimes be your friend. I'm not sure there are any "universals", other than an ongoing interest in Clay and Clay-y things. Even sisters sometimes scream and pull each other's hair, but the relationship endures.

Use your voice.

Now, off to make jello do some work. Sigh.

[Mandler]

Strong words are bound to attract strong reactions.

Wise words. And it's not as if we're discussing the weather or something equally innocuous. People are invested, and emotions get tangled. I'm a firm believer (even if I haven't/don't always practice(d) it) in waiting to post, editing, and in saying some things to my computer screen or to a friend that never get posted. I don't know how many times there have been things that triggered just too personal of a response, and sometimes I have to check the impulse to share that with the rest of the cyberworld because I know I don't have any good explanation other than "that's how I feel." Granted, that's explanation enough sometimes, but I always question if it's worth the potential angst or can I be happy just complaining to a friend or going for a walk or cranking up the stereo and dealing with it that way? That's just how I personally deal...everyone is different.

In lighter news...saw this at CV:

Has anyone posted this yet? I just saw it at Clay's MySpace. It's new to me! Looks like Jolene from Kimmel. Isn't this the cutest pic?

And the pic...

So cute!

Edited September 14, 2007 by Mandler

[ivy]

bottlecap WORD! I haven't had time to read much here since early yesterday but there are many times when people respond harshly to someone and I sitting at my computer perplexed wondering why they didn't ask for a clarification. Most of the time, I don't understand the snotty comments made to each other or about Clay & Co.

IMO Kim ran with something before it was a done deal. It was something that should have been announced by all 3 camps together. When she didn't get her way, she reacted in public coming across as someone who tried to force a decision on others. It does not matter whether Clay returned her calls or not and we have no idea why he didn't. Kim didn't get her own way and she doesn't like it. Clay gave a clear, concise synopsis that he is not doing the tour. He gave Kim an out with his comments about the media. She didn't take it and made herself look worse. I'm going by what I read by both Kim and Clay and not what other fans have said.

[FromClaygary]

So, I'm just going to say this...Scarlett, you don't know me, but I know you. And I love you. :F_05BL17blowkiss: I promise I won't stalk you or post raunchy pictures of you on the internet.

I have lots of opinions on what down between Kim and Clay as well, but that's all they are. I used to be a fan of Kim's. I'm still here. And that's enough of that.

And THANK YOU for that adorable pic of Clay and Jolene! Looks like it might be a M&G pic?

Edited September 14, 2007 by FromClaygary

[aikim]

Good Morning Everyone,

42 Days until Clay is Live at Lincoln Center!

53 Days until Clay Tapes The Skating Special!

73 Days until The Christmas Tour Starts!

99 Days until Christmas in Merrillville!

102 Days until The Skating Special Airs!

Everyone have a great day!

Kim

[Ansamcw]

This probably hit close to home to me because I always respond to people in a nice way. Solo keeps telling me to just say "Hell, NO!" instead of my usual "I would prefer it if ..." <> " or "Well, only if .... and ..." And then some people just keep doing whatever. So finally I go and post somewhere in no uncertain terms (though still using polite words and without putting people in a spot) but the word is, "Scarlett got all pissy over something she agreed to in the first place."

In the end, I guess we each see Clay as someone like us -- I don't think he drinks much if at all; I think he tells the truth where it matters; I think he goes out of his way to help people when he is able; I think his friends and family are the most important things in life to him.

The reason I'm really concerned is that his last blog was very specific about what did and didn't happen. Between saying someone has horrible hair, is clueless about business, doesn't know what's best for him, or is a liar who'd put friendship on the line to appease fans, it's the last one I just can't accept.

oh I definitely agree with you about the last one too. I don't think he would knowingly lie just to appease fans. If it seems like I was saying that...then sorry for my poor communication skills. Its just that in his blog he didn't make it clear if he TOLD Kim or his Management told her management that it was a no go. He simply said that he ruminated and he will not do it.

Now I also don't think Kim will lie about Clay not returning her call. Now she did say their management were in contact. If Clay's management told Kim that its a no...then I do believe that Kim was wrong in even mentioning the idea to the media. BUT we do not know that detail. Its possible they started talks...then TC decided its a no go but they were not able to set up another meeting ...did this message get to Kim's management? That is not clear. Its possible there was a miscommunication...or someone is not telling Kim and Clay what went down...that has happened before. But thinking that its possible Clay and Co failed to communicate does not mean I think he may have lied in anything he said in the blog. If he had made a decision and told his management to tell Kim...then I can understand why he would be upset with Kim. I also can imagine a scenario where Kim tries to contact Clay himself to change his mind and that is why Clay is not returning her calls cos he knows she will just try and push him to do the concert...BUT that is pure speculation.

Believe me...my impression of Kim has gone down in this as well. With the lack of details I mentioned I tend to lean towards Clay's side. But there is still a possibility that the error was on TC's side. I leave that open. I really am with KAndre on this...I just don;t think its a big deal cos these little communication problems avoidance issue is pretty normal IMO.

eta: I don;t think simple communication between the two camps is nothing in this situation. I simply believe that if there was totally no answer from TC then Kim is justified in thinking that Clay is still ruminating and there is still a possibility for the tour. She may have been too hasty in mentioning it to the press but she did use qualifiers in her statement to indicate it is not a done deal.

as KAndre mentioned...we are simply stating our opinions I am not trying to convince people that Kim is right and Clay is wrong...just clarifying MY own position. Which is...I think Kim was bitchy in her response to Clay and rash in her mentioning the tour...but I still don't know if Clay or TC is totally without fault.

[FearofH2O]

Mandler, thanks for that picture. They are both absolutely adorable.

I'm sorry if my post upset anyone. Name calling is just a big turnoff to me. I don't dislike the poster, I dislike the word. Not knowing what kind of day someone had or if something upsetting happened in their real lives, I hate to criticize. I just feel that I can't let certain things remained unanswered since it may be interpreted that I agree with it.

And to be quite honest there are certain people who call me that I never return their calls or emails. For example, after my mother died, my brother's wife had me on speed dial to ask for money. That's when I got caller ID. I'm sure she thought I was a jerk.

Hope everyone has a great Friday. It's finally raining here (after about a month of dryness) and I am happy to not have to water anymore bonsai plants or flowers.

[KAndre]

manfully resists tickling Scarlett...

Scarlett forgot to mention that she tries to encourage us not to scream Oh Hell No for her, throw stuff at the offending parties and give people wedgies. But she generally forgives us afterwards.

In the end, I guess we each see Clay as someone like us -- I don't think he drinks much if at all; I think he tells the truth where it matters; I think he goes out of his way to help people when he is able; I think his friends and family are the most important things in life to him.

The reason I'm really concerned is that his last blog was very specific about what did and didn't happen. Between saying someone has horrible hair, is clueless about business, doesn't know what's best for him, or is a liar who'd put friendship on the line to appease fans, it's the last one I just can't accept.

I can't disagree with any of that because I tend to believe it all as well. I just basically believe there was a breakdown in communication - and people can have an honest disagreement about what happened.

For me the difference between calling something Clay wrote pissy, and calling him a jerk, is the same as the difference between calling something I said bitchy, and calling me a bitch. *shrug*

Yeah, but for me, if I am calling something you said "bitchy", ultimately I am calling you a bitch at that moment. I don't mean that it's a defining characteristic of you, but for that moment I'm seeing you as a bitch because you said a bitchy thing. One of the definitions of a bitch for me is one who says bitchy things. I should know, I say bitchy things all the time. I admit, I am not one to parse a lot of things that closely and, as I keep telling people, I am not that sensitive. I wouldn't tell someone "what you said was annoying", I would say, "You are annoying" because you produced the words, they just didn't appear out of the ether. Actions help make up what we are. And I would occasionally say, "My child is bad", just like much more often I would say, "My child is good". I also accepted from my child the comment that I was the meanest person in the entire world because for that moment (well, many moments) for him, I was.

But really I don't think we have any really overpowering voices in here - just a lot of opinionated ones. And what bottle is really important to keep in mind - there's an ebb and flow to the conversation and people will bring stuff up from way back (and there's nothing wrong with that) and people will try to shift the conversation (and there's nothing wrong with that either) and we will occasionally have multiple conversations going on at the same time (Jello and shrimp paste and nonexistant tours). We basically want this to be a place of enjoyment. Which can mean smutting or venting or (a very little) whining (yes, because I occasionally wanna whine too) or laughing or saying WTF or finding out things you never plan on eating in a billion years (looking at too many people to name) or RCAS pretty/sexy/odd pictures or offering empathy or posting shrieking chickens.

And if I left anything out, hell post about it!

[luckiest1]

Apropos of nothing, I was just listening to some audio from San Diego, and I heard Clay give a shout out to Canada during TWYMMF. Hee, put a smile on my face this morning!

[playbiller]

FYI, this is not going to be a good day. The story was picked up by an idol blag and the comments are not pretty.

I don't know if it is Clay fans or trolls pretending to be Clay fans (I tend to believe fans ick - but this story is destined to be the new Angst.

Soooooooooooooooooooooo - thanks for the pretty pictures in advance.

Gotta run.

[aikim]

FYI, this is not going to be a good day. The story was picked up by an idol blag and the comments are not pretty.

I don't know if it is Clay fans or trolls pretending to be Clay fans (I tend to believe fans ick - but this story is destined to be the new Angst.

Soooooooooooooooooooooo - thanks for the pretty pictures in advance.

Gotta run.

Personally, I am not one to borrow trouble and as always, I think a lot of this shit could be avoided if some fans would pull out their dictionaries and look up the defination of ignore...There are too many fans, in the guise of "helping Clay" just end up fanning the flames and before you know it we have a full out bonfire.

Most of these times these sites are just looking for hits and attention, and it seems Clay fans are more than happy to help them out.

Kim

[luckiest1]

Sounds like a good day to watch/listen to clack or go out and enjoy the sunshine (if you are not stuck at work).

[jamar1700]

Jamar, anyone..I'm ready for Omaha in the morning..anybody know anything? What time should I get up!!

Jumping ahead here....

As it happened...a good friend, who is also what I would term a mildlyintensebutmostlynonboard Clayfan called me to ask if she should get tickets for BW & I when she got them for her and her DH. I had forgotten they were symphony members & they could get 4 seats. This was on Tuesday or Wednesday but I think we still got some good seats. Not pit or anything but center section toward the front. I'm going out to lunch with her right now so we can squeee about stuff.

Good luck! Let me know how it goes!

---

Well I'm in these camps...

Camp we don't know everything that has happened

Camp if I have to choose who to believe I'll most likely believe Clay

Camp I think Clay's response & tone was directed more to the fans

Camp maybe fans could butt out of Clay's business for a change

& last but not least

Camp

---

As to why I'm here and the tone of what is said here....

The difference for me, is that someone can express an opinion of Clay and someone else can disagree and so can someone else without it being slapped back at either poster as something they are saying out of agenda or judgementality (possible new word alert!) or being told they are piling on. And then we can all move on. I may not necessarily agree with what CG said in this instance but I'll lay odds that the next time she feels like posting something I'll be happy to see her again and will most likely be nodding in agreement with her post.

FWIW I read this board every.day for several months before I joined and started posting. No place is ever going to be rainbows and puppies all of the time. For me what makes this place different and I've said it many times is the way these things are handled. Here, I am treated like the adult that I am. Allowed to discuss how I really feel but also expected to bring an adults perspective to that discussion.

<----disclaimer...not a mod.

eta...also what jmh said.

Edited September 14, 2007 by jamar1700

[KAndre]

I am stuck at work. And it is a bright, bright sunshiny day. And the rain is gone.

Demmit.

But I have my little flash drive...the one with half a gig of Everything I Have...and I will get it done today!

eyes the sweeping vista of a new page and rejoices!

ETA: Yeah, I see you down there luckiest! I know perfectly well you were just biding your time to avoid the top of the page...you ain't slick, missy!

[luckiest1]

KAndre. That's the spirit! I am knee deep in Classics here. Work? What work?

[Guest Toots]

AnAmeraikenInTX said.... " Dry pudding mix sprinkled into plain yogurt is purdy tastee too!" :allgood

I love plain yogurt with fresh fruit immersed in the wobbly mess. Jello, don't mind it, but don't really go out of my way to eat it because it's just too sweeeeeeeeet!

YSRN said......."And I do care how the ClayNation gets it's knickers in a twist over the smallest thing. God, are we that bored? Don't we have like a billion pieces of clack to analyze. Is Scarlett doing all that rendering for nothin'?"

Now YSRN that's the most constructive advice we've had here for days. Couchie, Ansa...put these people to work. Since I volunteered answered Couchies call for help selecting clack from the tour my post ho'ing has taken a severe hit...put them to work I say!

Scarlett said....."This probably hit close to home to me because I always respond to people in a nice way. Solo keeps telling me to just say "Hell, NO!" instead of my usual "I would prefer it if ..." <> " or "Well, only if .... and ..." And then some people just keep doing whatever. So finally I go and post somewhere in no uncertain terms (though still using polite words and without putting people in a spot) but the word is, "Scarlett got all pissy over something she agreed to in the first place."

Solo doesn't even have to say "HELL NO" she just hits them on the head. Solo we need you...FCA has the tools right here. :bigemo_harabe_net-24:

[KAndre]

Shoot, I need an office, not a cubicle. The boy's voice just rings out....

[luckiest1]

Heh, I need some curtains around my cubicle or something. I can't help but dance in my chair to these songs! *yeah, yeah!*

[Couch Tomato]

<----disclaimer...not a mod.

eta...also what jmh said.

don't tempt me.

Thanks bottle: Brilliant words, as usual.

Shoot, I need an office, not a cubicle. The boy's voice just rings out....

bwah..well I have a cublicly office, so there. heee.

you win merrieeee.

[merrieeee]

Ha! I have a huge office with no-one within 15 feet and I have big winders...so there

[KAndre]

Watch it, merrieeee - I could always vote to let Scarlett pick our next lunch place...

I wonder if anyone would be fooled into think my headphones are actually a telephone headset? Though I admit, they don't actually look like a telephone headset...

[Bookwhore]

Wow!! Now I know that if I ever am feeling unappreciated or ignored on this board, all I have to do is post a jello recipe. How many times was that quoted, anyway? If anyone's interested in hearing what I can do with a can of Eagle Brand condensed milk, just holler...

Do you ever read along, nodding your head, shaking your head, hitting the 'quote' button, then go to reply and think "What the hell was it I was going to say?" No? Me either. Ahem....

He is very supportive of his friend that it is very annoying sometimes.

I am absolutely baffled.

Yes, I am baffled too. I'm baffled about why so many people in Clayland find it annoying that Clay is a loyal and supportive friend. Would we be happier if he steamrolled over people he knows, in order to make himself look better? I think the fact that he is so generous with praise and attention makes him come out smelling like a rose and doesn't hurt his career in the least.

What works for me on a message board is assuming the best from my fellow posters and allowing them space to express themselves... Didn't I say that earlier somewhere? Heh!

:F_05BL17blowkiss: I love you! You see, I initially took offense at Claygasm's (I know the rest of y'all are accustomed to shortening it to CG, but GOD I love that name! We need to see it often) use of the word 'jerk', and I took even greater offense at Thankful's use of the word 'delusional' to describe Kim. But different words are hotbuttons to different people, depending on where they're coming from in their life, what their circumstances are, etc. In my case I'm particularly sensitive to the word delusional because I have a child with a psychotic illness that is, in the truest sense of the word, delusional and has hallucinations. Obviously Kim isn't delusional, but I imagine (hope) that Thankful meant it in the more casual sense that our society is wont to use.

And it's not reasonable to expect every poster to look up the precise definition of every word before they post, to be sure that no one is going to misunderstand of be offended. Did anyone ever read The Giver? **Precision of language, please!** So I think the best thing to do is to give people a wide berth, assume the best and allow people (including Clay and Kim) to express themselves without dissecting every individual word and analyzing it to death.

Like couchie and others have said, absorbing more than a hundred members in less than a month for a really small board is not easy. We did well up until now, and handled some challenges, but tonight was not good.

I really didn't think last night was that bad? There were a couple of tense posts, but comparatively speaking, I think we did a pretty good job of keeping cool heads and allowing for a variety of opinions. Except for that whole 'grits=glop' thing....I'm still stung about that, two days later.

Camp maybe fans could butt out of Clay's business for a change

& last but not least

Camp

I think we should go camping together. We'll let Clay pitch the tent.

[playbiller]

I have a house - that I have to leave too often to buy stuff and spend money.

I used to have an office with no windows but with a big door. The problem was all the phone meetings, you can't even wear head phones when 90% of your time is spent on the phone not listen to 20 or so others talk about sttuff that didn't interest you - nope, you had to listen for your name in case anyone asked you a question.

OMG! I was watching a video on reality remix and the host said to one guy that his wife was so beautiful he must be packing an umbella - unbeleivable.

OK, I am ready to move on to the silly stuff now