#34: So, how about that Clay Aiken?

[Iseeme]

I think to say Clay's childhood was "tortured" would require a definition of what that word means to the person using it. Do I think he was abused? Most definitely. One does not go around spanking 15 year old boys. Was he verbally abused? Well, if you believe his comments about Ray in LTS - he was most definitely verbally abused, ignored, not treated like Ray's biological son, yada! yada! And Mama Faye was a party to it! I think you can have a very unhappy childhood without dramatic issues.....However, we also dont' know what kind of a child Clay was. But I always go back to the chapter where Ray died, Clay went to tell Brett, and his comment about "watching Brett hurting in those days before Dad died, I understood for the first time what it meant to have a Dad!" I guess that's why it's kind of hard for me to wrap my mind around Clay being a father to a child that doesn't necessarily live with him.

I agree with Play that I find it hard to believe Clay was so desperate at the ripe old age of 29 that he was panicking about not being a father yet and would rush headlong into an arranged baby! I just think IIT there are so many layers to this story that we'll never know. However, IIT and he and Jaymes thought they could keep it a secret - I think that's a pretty naive and short-sighted belief! Especially if one is to believe she was telling her good friends about her pregnancy in March at her birthday party. If they really are good friends of hers than it probably wouldn't take much of a quantum leap to "guess" who the babydaddy was. Again, IIT, I would bet some clinic or hospital or lab ought to be held accountable for breaching patient's confidentiality. Makes me wonder if there isn't something legal going on right now that would also account for the silence. If this is what has happened, I don't care who the father is - I hope Jaymes sues the institution or responsible party for as much as she can get!

As far as holding any form of the media accountable - that will happen when pigs fly! The only way to do it is to sue and that certainly hasn't gained much for the people that have sued and won! All I can say is that journalism is in a very sorry state! And that covers well-known newspapers, magazines, I-zines, TV news, TV magazine news, people like Larry King that try to couch the sensationalistic stories under the guise of "news" - and on and on and on. The Fourth Estate has alot to be ashamed about these days. In many cases, professionalism and integrity has given away to the almighty dollar.

[muskifest]

WHOA! WHOA!, I say!

Play and Iseeme, I'm not sure I understand where the word 'tortured' came from...

...had never made any secret of his ambition to start a family, a desire that was urgent and at times almost visceral. It was as if by becoming a father himself he could expunge the heartache of his childhood, especially his problematic relationship with his own father. Of course, when he did become a dad, he was going to be, like everything else he tackled, the best dad in history. For a man who liked having his family around him, fatherhood would be a kind of solace and completion.

No 'tortured' to be found! I see a 'heartache' and a 'problematic', but no tortured! I was merely struck by a similarity in how these two men viewed the idea of becoming a father in relation to their own experience of having/not knowing a father. We've read and heard from Clay that he learned what NOT to be from Vernon; what I'm reading about Tom Cruise and his own father indicates a similar action/reaction. That's all. And I was surprised when you guys started talking about this whole similarity post thingy in context of this recent babydaddy thing! I wasn't even thinking of that!

Lordy... ....it's easy to see how printed interviews and the like can be totally crafted and interpreted to suit individual filters, isn't it?

[Iseeme]

Muski - I was responding to Play's post!!!! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

But I will readily admit I have a very, very sore spot where it comes to absentee fathers and long-distance fathers. That's a little to close to home in my family for several generations. So yeah, I guess I have that filter.

[Couch Tomato]

canfly - sorry the embedding doesn't work here on the board, but I watched that, and it was a lotta fun!!

BTW - if what you'd like would be a page of embedded youtubes, we should talk!

Here's another link to it!!

You should be able to set it up to work. I know that you can do it at RHT and it's Invision and we can do it on our small Invision Free board. It's one of the things admins can change/set up on the admin control panel.

Bwah ha ha..oh really?

Ahem..which admin is in charge of controls/set ups and changing things because I'm still trying to figure out how to make save PM to sent mail a default.

Heee see Muski..last time we chatted this is what I was trying to say to you. On a message board, often times a conversation morphs not because of something you said originally but something the next person said in response. Or the point you thought would be fodder for discussion is ignored and one little lonely line from the bottom of the paragraph starts a firestorm. I love it!! Is tomorrow your baseball game? What day for drinks?

Manderly, I'm still kinda tired from yesterday.

Muski check the caregiver thread..i know how much you just use and value VIEW NEW POSTS hee.

[Ansamcw]

Controls???setup??? whats that??

do you know how much controls and such are in this board???

anybody can give me a clue where we can find this video embed?

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

[Clayzorback]

Well what happened to the notion that Clay, his friends, and his family were to be respected here. I take offense at the notion that Clay was treated so mean and his mopther stood by and let it happen. I guess it's not alright for me to say I think Clay is gay, but it is alright to indicate his mother was somehow negligent in her rearing of her chioldren.

[annabear]

annabear, I luv you avi. He is just so dang cute! :wub:

jmh, I don't know you, but everyone is sending congrats your way, so let me join in....

CONGRATS on your new mod duties!!!

Much quieter here today, but still a little livlier than a few other boards I frequent.

Thanks! He is awfully CUTE, isn't he?

Adding my congrats to jmh as well! :14:

[Iseeme]

Oh Good Lord & Taylor - read the damn book!!!!!!

I'm not taking your bait today!!!! Take a chill pill why not!

[Clayzorback]

I did read the book. Thank you very much. More than once or twice. That doesn't mean I know what really happened in Clay's life or how his mother treated him. Nor does that make any of his fans know what went on in Clay's home. You know what he said in a book but not the context of how things were handled in his real life. Right? Hey, if you're going to post something so controversial then you have to expect that people are going to respond to it. I'm just disagreeing with what you said............... I find it insulting to Clay and to Faye. Clay has stated many times he is very very close to his mother.

[playbiller]

heh, I read too many boards, someone probably used that word and it got stuck in my brain. I sill don't necessarily see heartache. One of my friends was contacted by her grade school son's teacher. They wanted him to get psychiatric help becauseof his family bckground, Now, I know these people are crazy for other resons, but the tacher only knew one thing, one parent was white and one was black, she felt that was the reasons he had trouble reading. turns out he was severely dyslexic, so much so that he was accepted in a school for the blind. It is persepcetive. The teacher thought that he child was in a stressful situation but he was really in a loving, albeit weird, family. ( she did not know the mother was a witch and the rest of the family was weird for other reasons I won't go into). So while Clay may have been punished severely on occasion - LTS just being snap shots - he was also pushed by Ray into Hometown connection and into his future. I also remember parts of the book that stated quite clearly, that Faye always made special alone time for Clay. No two people live the same life and Clay seemed to learn a lot from his, he had loving grandparents and even his half sister seemed attached to him. We can only guess at what wasn't written, we can never know. That is why I think that heartbreak might be strong. It is a different time and place than most of us know.

As far as holding any form of the media accountable - that will happen when pigs fly! The only way to do it is to sue and that certainly hasn't gained much for the people that have sued and won! All I can say is that journalism is in a very sorry state! And that covers well-known newspapers, magazines, I-zines, TV news, TV magazine news, people like Larry King that try to couch the sensationalistic stories under the guise of "news" - and on and on and on. The Fourth Estate has alot to be ashamed about these days. In many cases, professionalism and integrity has given away to the almighty dollar.

I don't see why people have to sue - stolen information is just as valuable as stuff, they should get prosecuted like anyone stealing a car - if you steal the car - you pay, if you knowing buy a stolen car, you also pay.

[muskifest]

:15: :bigemo_harabe_net-24:

[Iseeme]

Clay wrote the book. I believe Clay. End of story.

End of this discussion from my end. Clayzor - you can fight with yourself today because it doesn't mean enough to me to deal with you again.

Amen. (tm Brother Maynard)

ETA: Playbiller said:

I don't see why people have to sue - stolen information is just as valuable as stuff, they should get prosecuted like anyone stealing a car - if you steal the car - you pay, if you knowing buy a stolen car, you also pay.

You're absolutely right. But is there any kind of a government entity that looks at stuff like this? Would that there were....it would put alot of these sleezerags out of business! OH - and there would probably be some time slots available around 7:00 on TV......hee!

[djs111]

Well what happened to the notion that Clay, his friends, and his family were to be respected here. I take offense at the notion that Clay was treated so mean and his mopther stood by and let it happen. I guess it's not alright for me to say I think Clay is gay, but it is alright to indicate his mother was somehow negligent in her rearing of her chioldren.

Oh, I quite agree with your point, Clayzorback! IMO it is as just ridiculous to keyboard-analyze Clay and Faye and pronounce judgement on the basis of a little book that was specifically noted was NOT an autobiography. The book was meant to inspire young people who may have been having family problems, and stories were chosen and may well have been embroidered, or remembered differently by Clay than they would be by other members of his family.

Also feel it is wrong to pronounce a judgement on Clay's sexuality due to "gaydar".

In the gaydar case, since Clay has said he is straight, then that has trumped any extrapolation from various "clues".

In the LTS area, I think people just choose to fill in the blanks of Clay's life with whatever they want, for whatever reason, to believe.

It appears Clay and family and friends have learned a lesson very well - don't give fans anything at all about private llife because it will be masticated and examined like sheep entrails.

Oh Good Lord & Taylor - read the damn book!!!!!!

Most of us did, and we did not come to the same poor Clay horrible life bad mom conclusion, or feel that anything can be used to decide Clay had a tortured childhood or whatever. Shrug.

[Clayzorback]

Well that doesn't negate the fact that showing disrespect to Clay, his family, and friends is not well received or appreciated or tolerated much on this board. As i have been repeatedly told. I totally disagree with the notion that Faye was not a good mother and I bet you Clay would too. I don't care what he wrote in his book. I take offense at bashing Faye and I will say so each time I see it done. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[annabear]

....it would put alot of these sleezerags out of business! OH - and there would probably be some time slots available around 7:00 on TV......hee!

Not to mention an open channel or two...

I found the "ignore" key a long while back, and I know how to use it. Works for me.

In case anyone is wondering where and/or how to find the "ignore" function...

My Controls - at the top, just under the banner

Manage Ignored Users - on the lefthand side, under Options

Type in a screenname, hit the Update Ignored Users button and voila! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[wandacleo]

You put your right foot in, you put your right foot out, you put your right foot in and you shake it all about.....

Just thought we needed a little change of pace around here.

[playbiller]

You put your right foot in, you put your right foot out, you put your right foot in and you shake it all about.....

Just thought we needed a little change of pace around here.

Wanda, you are so musical, have you ever considered trying out for American Idol? It will change your life.

[ldyjocelyn]

....it would put alot of these sleezerags out of business! OH - and there would probably be some time slots available around 7:00 on TV......hee!

Not to mention an open channel or two...

And a bunch of advertisers who would lose a LOT of revenue. Seriously. IMO, if these shows upset people -- find out who is purchasing advertising space in the programs. Then, send a letter to those people saying that you'll never buy from them again, and here's the reason why. It may not work with some of the national programs, but it could very well work with the syndicated shows like ET and TMZ -- because you would be targeting local advertisers. That would hurt.

It's worth a shot at least.

Topic: Clay probably dances the hokey pokey in his pj's. Isn't that a nice thought?

[HeidiHo]

Clay wrote the book. I believe Clay. End of story.

Of course Clay wrote the book, and I believe what he wrote. BUT it is not a biography. It is brief snapshots into his life, not an all inclusive, detailed history of his 25 years on this earth. I have disagreed with many people since the book came out that Clay was abused or that it was the defining work on Clay Aiken – too much weight is placed on it – we just don’t know the *reality* of the situation, we only know Clay’s truth of those few moments. I have to agree with Play – Ray did push Clay to sing. Men who don’t care don’t do that. Were they perfect parents? Who is a perfect parent?? Simple fact is that we only know about the small bits that Clay shared and ONLY from his perspective.

Well what happened to the notion that Clay, his friends, and his family were to be respected here. I take offense at the notion that Clay was treated so mean and his mopther stood by and let it happen. I guess it's not alright for me to say I think Clay is gay, but it is alright to indicate his mother was somehow negligent in her rearing of her chioldren.

Oh, I quite agree with your point, Clayzorback! IMO it is as just ridiculous to keyboard-analyze Clay and Faye and pronounce judgement on the basis of a little book that was specifically noted was NOT an autobiography. The book was meant to inspire young people who may have been having family problems, and stories were chosen and may well have been embroidered, or remembered differently by Clay than they would be by other members of his family.

Also feel it is wrong to pronounce a judgement on Clay's sexuality due to "gaydar". In the gaydar case, since Clay has said he is straight, then that has trumped any extrapolation from various "clues".

Exactly. Frankly, the two things are pretty much the same in my book. Judgment based on little circumstantial evidence and, in the sexuality case, counter to what Clay has said. Seems pretty disrespectful to me – not that I think total respect is always necessary, but then I’m not the one calling for it. <g>

You put your right foot in, you put your right foot out, you put your right foot in and you shake it all about.....

Just thought we needed a little change of pace around here.

We can still have wine with our change of pace, right?

Topic: Clay probably dances the hokey pokey in his pj's. Isn't that a nice thought?

Holy jesus. That's a visual that will be some time in going away. <g>

[Iseeme]

Dancing the hokey pokey in his pjs??? Ummmm...boxers, briefs, nothing.............MUSKIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

How 'bout them Mets.......

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

[merrieeee]

Topic: Clay probably dances the hokey pokey in his pj's. Isn't that a nice thought?

That's what it's all about!

[annabear]

Topic: Clay probably dances the hokey pokey in his pj's. Isn't that a nice thought?

Nice? I don't know that I'd describe that particular thought as 'nice'.......

[jamar1700]

aaaaaaaaand I think I'll start this evening where I left off last night...

anyone?

[aikim]

....it would put alot of these sleezerags out of business! OH - and there would probably be some time slots available around 7:00 on TV......hee!

Not to mention an open channel or two...

And a bunch of advertisers who would lose a LOT of revenue. Seriously. IMO, if these shows upset people -- find out who is purchasing advertising space in the programs. Then, send a letter to those people saying that you'll never buy from them again, and here's the reason why. It may not work with some of the national programs, but it could very well work with the syndicated shows like ET and TMZ -- because you would be targeting local advertisers. That would hurt.

It's worth a shot at least.

Topic: Clay probably dances the hokey pokey in his pj's. Isn't that a nice thought?

Hee...at my wedding we had a band with a sense of humor and they decided to change up the hokepy pokey a bit...they asked the guys to put their "best part it in" and then the girls to put "their best part in"...it was riot...I have it on tape. You can imagine what part all the guys were trying to "put in" except one cousin who stuck his elbow in! It was the best hokey pokey ever. Then there were my in-laws who had never done the hokey pokey and couldn't figure out what we were doing!

Kim

[jmh123]

For jmh:

Grabs this again--good for another scorcher here today!!