#16 Veins flowing with personality, thighs dripping with character.

[FearofH2O]

I guess I am at a loss as to what Clay did that would be considered jerk behavior? Is it because he didn't return a phone call for two months and how do we know that is true? Two sides two every story and I always prefer to give Clay the benefit of the doubt.

Kim

I agree that we don't know what happened and extrapolating is like writing fiction to me at least. I have been married for 40 years and have never called my husband a jerk (not that he didn't deserve to be called one on occasion). Just always hated name calling unless, as in the case of PH, it is well deserved. Just ask playbiller, I didn't speak to her for two weeks after she said Clay was a slob.

I think Kim is one strong woman so I can definitely see her speaking of things as she sees them. Maybe it just wasn't as important to Clay. Not my problem, let their managers work it out.

[Ansamcw]

Can I ask a newbie question and risk pissing off some folks?

Why is it ok to call Clay a jerk?

Is that not disrespectful? Apparently not, so I am having trouble figuring out what the lines are here.

I know several of you came here to avoid what you felt was disrespect to Clay elsewhere so I am really confused.

I'm the farthest thing from a newbie here, and I have to admit I'm a little flummoxed by that myself.

I think I'd reserve words like jerk for PH or his ilk.

Personally ...jerk is too mild a term for him. I guess that may be the difference...i don;t have a very strong reaction to the word.

I don't know. Jerk seems pretty insulting to me.

Can we make this that last word on the word jerk....Its pretty clear different people have different take on this.

time to move on...

[PuddinsJoy]

Personally ...jerk is too mild a term for him. I guess that may be the difference...i don;t have a very strong reaction to the word.

ITA about some reacting differently to the word, Ansa - I absolutely understand and can appreciate that after I read your explanation. I have a very strong negative reaction to the word, which is why it bothered me when I saw it used in regard to Clay.

Thanks for the beauties Stargazer! Love the dark filters that so many of our clack gatherers used this tour!

Yay for finding out my Wichita concert seats tomorrow and Omaha today - what ticket stress?! (love this little guy cindilu2!)

[atinal]

wanda I think Ansa was saying jerk is too mild a term for PH and the ilk, not Clay.

[aikim]

I guess I just don't see what the phone call has to do with anything.

A press release was put out about a non-existant tour without the knowledge of the other two supposed participants. No, we don't know how far the negotiations went; but according to Clay's blog it was just an idea that was tossed around and nothing came of it.

Kim and her team screwed up royally and Kim pissing in her blog that Clay didn't call her two months to deflect any guilt on her part just came across as immature.

As far as I am concerned, Clay is the innocent party here.

Kim

[wandacleo]

wanda I think Ansa was saying jerk is too mild a term for PH and the ilk, not Clay.

I didn't figure that out until after I posted--which just goes to show how easily misunderstandings can happen. I was a little surprised that Ansa thought so badly of Clay. LOL.

[Scarlett]

I don't believe in censorship.

However, I'd also like to say that while I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt, I'm AMAZED (tm:Clay) that the strongest adjective from the past couple of days is directed at *my baby!* based on (a) the assumption that something another performer said on a blog was true and (b ) on the supposition that his tone on his blog was colored by Clay Nation's pissiness?

I happen to think Clay's a kind, generous and decent person.

No matter what everyone wrote about Fran or Jacob or Spike or that other book lady, his statements have always been forthright, generous and with minimal drama. If his tone yesterday sounded pissy, I say we assume that there was something to be somewhat pissy about. Personally, I thought he was just being firm. (which is just the way we want him, don't we?) Or to say it a different way, he is never short with people just because his fans hate them. *giggles*

However, I don't want to drag this on too much because if it takes forever to die, it'll only benefit whoever has a CD out and needs the press right now. Clay Nation needs to understand that once again -- the only way to win is not to play. And if I were Kim, my move would be to blog something pissy and teary every other day, you know the way PH and whatshisface do. How many months did it take us to learn that getting a response from us is what people want, and an angry response gets triple points!

Of course this could all be a ploy for media attention, since it's plain to see that controversy is the ticket to ride.

You may have something there. *wink*

Scarlett... is there no way any of us can help you with rendering and stuff??

I have to confess that a lot of days I set out to render stuff, then I log on to FCA and before I know it it's midnight. So you can help by shooing me away when I hang around too long or toss me a

couple of those that stargazer found! *wants to misbehave*

Her response reminds me that she was on track to go to law school - sticking to the letter of the law.

Technically, she wasn't wrong in what she said - but man, is it coming out wrong. And she is implying that the article shifted emphasis from "hopeful" to "more definitive" - which could also be true. But...sigh.

I know women like KLo - and knowing this fandom, people probably send her horrific crap - and then she feels unsupported by Clay (TWO MONTHS and no comment - chick, you were a booty call - Clay, don't do that) - she's gonna come out fighting - and again, there is no way for her to win.

Implying that Billboard changed her words is not a pass because her blog advertised the article without bothering to point out those errors or omissions. This is admitting that she (because the buck stops with her) knowingly published inaccurate information.

Ick.

Mmm, sushi.

I adore sushi! All kinds! But my favorite is uni -- sea urchin -- which (thinly-veiled attempt to hide another nauseating description, tm:Toots :medium-smiley-070: ) ia a brownish-ochre paste that looks like sh-tuff but tastes heavenly! Edited September 14, 2007 by Scarlett

[Ansamcw]

wanda I think Ansa was saying jerk is too mild a term for PH and the ilk, not Clay.

Oh definitely... as I said in my earlier post...I do disagree with CG about Clay's action being that of a jerk. But I still think she can state that SHE thought he was BEING a jerk. that is her opinion.

PH and the rest...UGH...nevermind

[playbiller]

(I need to learn the art of splitting up long ass posts into short ones so I can get off this dog walker thing. Sorry Raleigh and Durham.)

You know pictures or links to clack make good posts

My dream is that he takes Tyra to his high school reuinion.

Didn't it happen already? Cuz it seemed months ago that someone actually posted the date on a message board shocking the hell out of me.

High school and college reunions usually happen in spring or early summer.

Written by Muskifest

September 13, 2007

I feel I need to clarify some things here. First, I'm sorry that Couch Tomato feels 'sad', but if she had suggested reviving our walk dates, I'd have known for sure that she wanted to do so. Nothing in the past months has led me to believe that she DOES. If I don't KNOW that she's 'sad, sad...", how can I make it all better? .........................

Ah, the creativity needs an outlet. It will not be stilled.

FYI - I swear, Zicam swabs and you will feel better quickly and be recovered in days. This comment comes from someone who is not suppoed to catch cold because my sinuses flare up and I am in bed for a month with after a cold.

Kim and Clay - I really have nothing to say except I wish people would leave them alone, I understand some fan took it to send this in to WRAL and they had an announcement for it. I hope that person's keyboard breaks. If I knew who it was, I might offer to break it for them. Fans need to keep their noses out of all of Clay's public relations, and need to learn not to hit the submit key. I know where this will appear next as soon as they can find a way to spin it sadly.

Clay and his half sister - talk about not really knowing what went down! - But I do know about the difference between feeling guilty and being guilty, as it may have applied to Clay and really did apply to me. It is along story and I won't bore you, but sometimes when you deal with people who suffer from depression, you are in danger of falling off that cliff with them.

ETA Since the issue of "jerk" has been brought up - there is no such thing as jerk like behavior. The word refers to spasmodic movement, cured food, a change in accelration, a weightlifting movement or a "dull stupid fatuous person ". You know how Clay fans like to research. People speak quickly and casually. My sister has never forgiven me for calling Clay a slob one day - that is a reactive word to her. Now there is behaving like a hjerk which has a lighter connotation. I think the issue is that it has become easy for using words loaded with connotations or hot button words in everyday language describing Clay and I do believe this is where a lot of the arguments begin,perhaps that can be a topic of discussion for the next discussion period. As far as judging people (Clay or Kim or posters), I have had a crazy day and an just going to have another beer and go mellow out reading about Iraq.

[canuck2010]

Lots and lots of really great posts... too many to quote so I'll just WORD y'all for all kinds of reasons... I try not to be too deep a thinker in my fandom - I read contracts for a living - that's deep enough for me and thinking deep often makes my head hurt... Shallow should be my middle name...

Like I mentioned, I'm here for the fun and I try really hard to stay away from and out of the shit (my toes hate that squishy feeling!)... it's not that I'm oblivious to it, I'm at least aware of most of it if not intimate with it and I could angst away with the best of them if I wanted, but being shallow and all, I try hard as hell to ignore it and just cling to the smut... besides, thanks to Mrs. Ode, my 7th/8th grade English teacher who made me hate grammar and sentence structure with the heat of a zillion burning suns (tm someone somewhere I'm sure), I don't put my thoughts into words as well as so many others... that causes me to avoid putting any deep thinking I do into words on paper...

So on to one of my other favorite subjects which it appears we ARE still discussing...

OOoooooo...are we trading jello recipes?

2 pkgs cherry jello

2 c. boiling water

1 can cherry pie filling (undrained)

Mix the above until dissolved, put in pretty clear-glass bowl and let set. Top with a thick layer of whipped cream. This is affectionately called "Cherry Jello Stuff" in my family. Seriously. In 25 years no one has come up with a better name for it, but it's on the request list for every family holiday dinner.

Just ran into the kitchen, all the ingredients, check! Fired up some boiling water and now have Cherry Jello Stuff setting in my fridge! My son is a cherry fiend and saw it on the counter as the water was getting to boiling and immediately asked what was up. I suspect Cherry Jello Stuff will be his breakfast tomorrow! Thanks! Yeah, we're all about healthy eating and shi.. stuff like that...

You are hilarious!!! Thanks for the funny!

keepingfaith GAH! THUD! DROOL!!!

Anyone but me think it's cool that Tyra paid for lunch the first time which shouted out to me that SHE invited HIM???? Warmed the cockles of my heart - it did!!

Yeah, I know - I'm speculating but I love to speculate about Clay and his wimmen!!! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[AnAmeraikenInTX]

Anyone up for a little 'triple threat'?

I LURVESSSSSSSS those jeans (and who's/what's wearin' 'em!)

Yeah, we're all about healthy eating and shi.. stuff like that...

Hmmmmmmmm, well, if healthy is wanted, wonder how this cherry recipe would be w/ sugar-free jello and no sugar added cherries? I think it's worth a try!

Thank you for the recipe, Bookwhore! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[aikim]

Clay's High School Reunion is the week-end of the 21/22...I remember that because my birthday is on the 22 and when it was posted on the boards, I commented that Clay was celebrating 10 years out of high school and I was turning 50, doesn't seem quite fair.

Kim

[keepingfaith]

OOoooooo...are we trading jello recipes?

2 pkgs cherry jello

2 c. boiling water

1 can cherry pie filling (undrained)

Mix the above until dissolved, put in pretty clear-glass bowl and let set. Top with a thick layer of whipped cream. This is affectionately called "Cherry Jello Stuff" in my family. Seriously. In 25 years no one has come up with a better name for it, but it's on the request list for every family holiday dinner.

We call that "The Pink Stuff" and then we have "The Green Stuff" - yeah, the kids named it! The Green Stuff is the old workhorse jello pistachio pudding mix, with crushed pineapple, miniature marshmallows, pecans, and sliced cherries in whipped cream. The original recipe referred to this as a "salad" but salad doesn't contain marshmallows in my world.

[AnAmeraikenInTX]

It may sound gross, but you can also flavor up a serving of plain ol' cottage cheese by just sprinkling in a little dry jello powder, regular or sugar-free, stir and eat. Sure makes the shi...stuff go down easier. Dry pudding mix sprinkled into plain yogurt is purdy tastee too! I have five packages of Jello SF gelatin and pudding mixes open in my pantry at this very moment (and cottage cheese and plain yogurt in the 'fridge!)

[Couch Tomato]

Anyone but me think it's cool that Tyra paid for lunch the first time which shouted out to me that SHE invited HIM???? Warmed the cockles of my heart - it did!!

me me me

Can't believe the drama took my mind of the real tidbit of fun. I need my Clyra story. I do love the way he was looking at her, like he was in awe or something. And I know he charmed the socks off her. There's your cue Muski.

I can't believe we're talking jello..Who started this topic. Jerome is not the only one with a list.

Keepingfaith..THANK YOU for the pictures..and I agree with your sentiment.

I really hope a fan did not alert the fucking media. Because they may think they are doing Clay a favor over a story that had gone basically nowhere but the asshats who pick it up will not be kind to Clay. And I'm sure that person will not take responsibility for that.

Scarlett, I totally agree with you about not extending the story. But unlike you I don't think ClayNation has ever learned this.

Jamar, anyone..I'm ready for Omaha in the morning..anybody know anything? What time should I get up!!

[PuddinsJoy]

My dream is that he takes Tyra to his high school reuinion.

Didn't it happen already? Cuz it seemed months ago that someone actually posted the date on a message board shocking the hell out of me.

High school and college reunions usually happen in spring or early summer.

Actually, my 30th high school reunion was a week ago - yeah, we were always the class that was a dollar late and one short.

I remember when Clay was on Kimmel talking about LTS - after talking about how he was picked on, Kimmel said Clay should 'show them' by flying his own helicopter to his high school reunion - and he was gonna name names - said their addresses were in his book too - remember? Hilarious bit! Clay was pissy and all kinds of hot that day . . .

Sharing the Jell-o love here tonight! It is one of the four main food groups - Bill Cosby told me so

[spikesmom]

Yeah, we're all about healthy eating and shi.. stuff like that...

Hmmmmmmmm, well, if healthy is wanted, wonder how this cherry recipe would be w/ sugar-free jello and no sugar added cherries? I think it's worth a try!

Well, that whole healthy thing was actually about having cherry jello stuff for breakfast instead of like real breakfast food... so now I get to out myself and admit that I did use sugar free jello and lite cherry pie filling... IT'S ALL I HAD, PEOPLE and when I get the urge to make something, I gotta do it right away!!!! I'm the queen of instant gratification!

We call that "The Pink Stuff" and then we have "The Green Stuff" - yeah, the kids named it! The Green Stuff is the old workhorse jello pistachio pudding mix, with crushed pineapple, miniature marshmallows, pecans, and sliced cherries in whipped cream. The original recipe referred to this as a "salad" but salad doesn't contain marshmallows in my world.

Damn! I love that green stuff... and shit, cuz I know I don't have all those ingredients. I'll be thinking about that stuff all day at work tomorrow now... I wonder if I could call in sick... :eusa_whistle:

[AnAmeraikenInTX]

Sharing the Jell-o love here tonight! It is one of the four main food groups - Bill Cosby told me so

And if you're from the south, there may be some Cool Whip close by as well!!! That and Campbell's Cream of _____ (you fill in the blank) are pretty much main food groups where I'm from too!!!

[canuck2010]

Yeah, we're all about healthy eating and shi.. stuff like that...

Hmmmmmmmm, well, if healthy is wanted, wonder how this cherry recipe would be w/ sugar-free jello and no sugar added cherries? I think it's worth a try!

Well, that whole healthy thing was actually about having cherry jello stuff for breakfast instead of like real breakfast food... so now I get to out myself and admit that I did use sugar free jello and lite cherry pie filling... IT'S ALL I HAD, PEOPLE and when I get the urge to make something, I gotta do it right away!!!! I'm the queen of instant gratification!

We call that "The Pink Stuff" and then we have "The Green Stuff" - yeah, the kids named it! The Green Stuff is the old workhorse jello pistachio pudding mix, with crushed pineapple, miniature marshmallows, pecans, and sliced cherries in whipped cream. The original recipe referred to this as a "salad" but salad doesn't contain marshmallows in my world.

Damn! I love that green stuff... and shit, cuz I know I don't have all those ingredients. I'll be thinking about that stuff all day at work tomorrow now... I wonder if I could call in sick... :eusa_whistle:

[trophywife]

newbie jumping in... really great discussion tonight

I wonder if their friendship had been that close for a while. Really hard to tell but when was the last time Clay has mentioned Kim? Anytime he's asked about his Idol pals it's always about Kelly and Ruben. Did one day Kim call him up out of the blue to pitch this tour idea?

Clay doesn't seem like a jerk to me. Yes, he should have called her back sooner but I don't think it was a case of him having a huge ego or being malicious. I think many of us have been in situations where we say "yes" to please someone but deep down regret it a little and try to figure out some way to back out gracefully.

Maybe he really didn't know how to tell her that touring together would not be in his best interest and didn't want to hurt her feelings. Maybe he hoped his managers could get the message across or he felt he had more time to mull things over before he could give Kim a definitive answer. I don't know how I would have reacted if I was in his shoes. Mixing friendship with business can be so tough.

And I have no Jello recipes to share. I can't even cook that.

No matter what everyone wrote about Fran or Jacob or Spike or that other book lady, his statements have always been forthright, generous and with minimal drama. If his tone yesterday sounded pissy, I say we assume that there was something to be somewhat pissy about. Personally, I thought he was just being firm. (which is just the way we want him, don't we?) Or to say it a different way, he is never short with people just because his fans hate them. *giggles*

The situation is sad but well, "I will not" I found rather hot.

Edited September 14, 2007 by trophywife

[AnAmeraikenInTX]

Yeah, we're all about healthy eating and shi.. stuff like that...

Hmmmmmmmm, well, if healthy is wanted, wonder how this cherry recipe would be w/ sugar-free jello and no sugar added cherries? I think it's worth a try!

Well, that whole healthy thing was actually about having cherry jello stuff for breakfast instead of like real breakfast food... so now I get to out myself and admit that I did use sugar free jello and lite cherry pie filling... IT'S ALL I HAD, PEOPLE and when I get the urge to make something, I gotta do it right away!!!! I'm the queen of instant gratification!

Heehee!! Please let us know how the lite version turned out!! I was impressed you went in the kitchen to whip out a jello dish at 10:00 o'clock at night (maybe earlier or later, depending on your time zone!)

Hey, I think it's great that fruit would be part of breakfast!! And dairy too, if the whipped cream is there! (It honestly didn't seem strange to me at all that the jello would be for, or part of, breakfast!! Live life to the fullest, and all that!)

[PuddinsJoy]

Jamar, anyone..I'm ready for Omaha in the morning..anybody know anything? What time should I get up!!

I'm trying to help ya Couchie! This is all I can find - the ticket office doesn't open until 10am central time so would think maybe that's when they go on sale too? Crazy! I've never seen a venue that doesn't post an on-sale time!

Here's what it says at Ticket Omaha:

Online: Tickets may be purchased online 24 hours a day, seven days a week, using Visa, MasterCard, Discover or American Express. Simply select a performance and follow the steps for purchasing. Tickets will either be mailed to you or held at the Ticket Omaha office, depending upon the date of the performance.

Phone: Tickets may be purchased by phone toll free at (866) 434-8587 (TKTS); (402) 345-0606 or (402) 341-1811 (TTY) Monday through Friday from 10:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., and Saturdays, noon to 5:00 p.m. Tickets ordered by phone at least 10 days in advance of the event will be mailed, or may be picked up at the Ticket Omaha office at your request. Please bring your credit card with you as a form of ID when picking up your tickets.

Here's the buy site: http://tinyurl.com/yp8rje

Good Luck!!! :F_05BL17blowkiss: :Tour4:

[Guest Toots]

Scarlett said..I adore sushi! All kinds! But my favorite is uni -- sea urchin -- which (thinly-veiled attempt to hide another nauseating description, tm:Toots :medium-smiley-070: ) ia a brownish-ochre paste that looks like sh-tuff but tastes heavenly!

I also love sushi and have even tried that brownish-ochre paste that looks like sh-tuff but tastes heavenly. I don't remember it being heavenly but I do love sushi.

Couchie said..I can't believe we're talking jello..

We're treading on shaky ground here, it's karma!

[spikesmom]

Heehee!! Please let us know how the lite version turned out!! I was impressed you went in the kitchen to whip out a jello dish at 10:00 o'clock at night (maybe earlier or later, depending on your time zone!)

Hey, I think it's great that fruit would be part of breakfast!! And dairy too, if the whipped cream is there! (It honestly didn't seem strange to me at all that the jello would be for, or part of, breakfast!! Live life to the fullest, and all that!)

I'll let you know how it turns out... and yeah, I never even looked at the clock but it's after 11 here now so it probably was after ten....

And you made me think of my Mom who gave my niece an ice cream cone for breakfast one day... Mom's logic was that ice cream is dairy and the cone is made of the same stuff as cereal so it wasn't any different than having a bowl of cereal! I thought my sister was gonna have a cow!

And that's what Grandmothers are for!

[laughn]

ETA Since the issue of "jerk" has been brought up - there is no such thing as jerk like behavior. The word refers to spasmodic movement, cured food, a change in accelration, a weightlifting movement or a "dull stupid fatuous person ". You know how Clay fans like to research. People speak quickly and casually. My sister has never forgiven me for calling Clay a slob one day - that is a reactive word to her. Now there is behaving like a hjerk which has a lighter connotation. I think the issue is that it has become easy for using words loaded with connotations or hot button words in everyday language describing Clay and I do believe this is where a lot of the arguments begin,perhaps that can be a topic of discussion for the next discussion period. As far as judging people (Clay or Kim or posters), I have had a crazy day and an just going to have another beer and go mellow out reading about Iraq.

I don't know why, but that ^ part I bolded made me laugh my ass off. Thanks.

Anyone but me think it's cool that Tyra paid for lunch the first time which shouted out to me that SHE invited HIM???? Warmed the cockles of my heart - it did!!

We all have filters. See, for all we know, he lost his wallet again and she was stuck with the tab.

Seriously, like playbiller said, people speak quickly and casually, and sometimes what they say isn't exactly what they mean or said in the way others take it. That goes for Clay and Kim as well as the people posting in this fandom. I've been teaching for a long time and have heard many parents refer to their child as 'bad'. "Let me know if they were bad today." That's not even a possibility. No child is ever bad, even if they do something less than perfect. The parents get the act mixed up with the child. Not the same thing. All I can do in that case is model back to the parent, 'Jane or Johnny can not be bad, but it is bad to hit little Joey upside his head with that block." I'll choose to think that all of us can use the same words and have different meanings in mind.

I can't believe we're talking jello..Who started this topic. Jerome is not the only one with a list.

Couchie.... and :F_05BL17blowkiss: Edited September 14, 2007 by laughn