#22: Which brings us to Clay Aiken, as most good conversations should

[aikim]

djs111 I just read your siggie... and how true!

Kim

[playbiller]

Let me just say the first prominent poster who was outed and banned was the one I had an issue with over Ruben in early 2006. he had said in an interview early on that his album in 2003 came out after Clays and part of the reason was that he did not get to record any of it until weeks after the tour because he was making appearances. She called him a liar, fat and lazy and always trying to put Clay down. I PMd her and said that I thought she should reconsider her post because people looked up to her and Clay and Ruben were friends and she had takedn the quote out of context and he was actuyal;ly correct in what he said. She PM'd me back she had a right to say waht ever she wanted (true) and that Clay and Ruben were no longer friends.

At that point and I knew something was seriously wrong and put her on my mental ignore list.

I see denial is still very popular, time for people to smell the coffee and leave the pod.

[YSRN]

Well, I do not think everyone who hates RCA is a "poddie" or whatever... it's just that there was a contingent of folks that diluted the real thoughts by real people by spreading rumor after rumor of Clay sending them personal messages that RCA was out to get him. Unfortunately it was all wrapped together, just like all complex issues are, and anyone who hates RCA got bundled with the ones pushing it.

There are plenty of real reasons to not care for RCA if that's one's bent, but again, it's down to genuine feelings vs. pushing agendas based on lies and manipulation.

[cindilu2]

This picture is in my blog, but I'll share it anyway. I think it's my new favorite picture of grandson Kai.

Clickable -- The Student

Have a great day, FCA! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Caro

Caro, I think this little gem got lost in the shuffle. What an adorable photo!!! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[cindilu2]

Well, I do not think everyone who hates RCA is a "poddie" or whatever... it's just that there was a contingent of folks that diluted the real thoughts by real people by spreading rumor after rumor of Clay sending them personal messages that RCA was out to get him. Unfortunately it was all wrapped together, just like all complex issues are, and anyone who hates RCA got bundled with the ones pushing it.

There are plenty of real reasons to not care for RCA if that's one's bent, but again, it's down to genuine feelings vs. pushing agendas based on lies and manipulation.

I agree with this, YSRN. I don't think anybody believes at this point that ATDW is the CD Clay set out to make (even though I love it with the fire of a thousand suns). But the OTT RCA hate, and the absolute dismissal of any other opinion as less-than-intelligent was and is hard to take.

And the total disregard of anything Clay actually, you know, publicly stated about the matter is still one of the great bafflements of the last four years.

I don't want to lump all people together in this any more than I appreciated being labelled naive during the whole period. It's just really hard not to feel a little vindication. But neener-neener isn't any more acceptable when you're on the other side of it.

[Carolina Clay]

Thnx, Cindy -- glad you like it. The friend who sent the book doesn't own a computer. I am trying to figure out my new photo printer to include a copy of the pix in her Christmas gift.

I'm not gullible (or maybe I am), but my mouth has been wide open most of the afternoon.

Have a great week, all!

Caro

[Ansamcw]

Heeeee.......lots of two-stepping and butt covering going on all over the boards - sorry, those who consider themselves prominent posters who should be followed blindly have lost all semblance of believeability. Well, I never believed in the first place.

And it was the neener-neener shit that rankled, people spouting overblown crap are free to do that, to me, as long as they are up front about their sources.

Must suck to have your neener-neeners turn out to be cow-pies.

This is what is truly pissing me off right now...all of a sudden these posters that were pushing the idea that Clay is leaving RCA....the posters that went on an I believe Chant...are now acting like they never believed anything that was told to them by their insider...yeah right!

To clarify...I don't think everyone that didn't like RCA believed the scam...but there are a lot of people that used this insider knowledge as a way to shut people up and to convince people there is something there.

I do believe that most people were disillusioned with how ATDW was promoted and were ready to find an easy explanation to everything that happened. To them RCA was a convenient scapegoat...so a bit of info from a prominent fan like HD was all they need to fuel the RCA hate.

[playbiller]

Actually, the pod is not whether RCA is good or bad. There is no such thing as a good label and from what I have heard (oooh, unsourced rumor, wheeee), one label is pretty much like another except in what they can do for a performer. hence my dsidain for smaller labels that cannot get you on television shows or on store shelves.

In the beginning I must admit, I liked it as a description because it aptly did describe a few people who behaved quite differently as if they grew new personalities. One in particular got to me since she seemed on the edge of hysteria constantly and it freaked me out. Then the trashing of me on certain boards began and so I got an attitude problem from which I have yet to recover.

The pod people should come out from is the cult of fandom. The cult of the famous fan and being yes people. The mass mood. I don't care if people still hate RCA. I never really cared, except that it made the whole fandom crazy and dissention was verboten.

[Couch Tomato]

Well, I do not think everyone who hates RCA is a "poddie" or whatever... it's just that there was a contingent of folks that diluted the real thoughts by real people by spreading rumor after rumor of Clay sending them personal messages that RCA was out to get him. Unfortunately it was all wrapped together, just like all complex issues are, and anyone who hates RCA got bundled with the ones pushing it.

There are plenty of real reasons to not care for RCA if that's one's bent, but again, it's down to genuine feelings vs. pushing agendas based on lies and manipulation.

WORD! I don't care what anybody's position is on RCA...and actually I'm sick of people thinking there is only the two extremes of the argument. There isn't. There's a whole lot of gray area in between. And I think most of Clay Nation is there. Like you said..tehre were plenty of legit reasons to think RCA and Clay had issues..but insisting that Clive was using every minute in his day to come up with new ways to torture Clay was just ridiculous. And trying to snuff out the other arguments was also what bothered me. And the fact that I didn't believe the extreme of evil RCA and Clay does not mean I thought everythingt was all hunky dory.

I'm packing eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Ansamcw]

Yes and at this point I don't care what that relationship really is...the point is that all this secret insider info is dangerous because it makes the fans vulnerable to scams...right now I see some people are saying ...but I have a legit source....yeah right. The fact is ... the only legit source is the real public Clay and TC.

[Bookwhore]

Hey! I'm caught up to page 43! I've been out Christmas shopping all day. My hands are so frozen I can barely type.

:F_05BL17blowkiss: to the FCA

Guess what? Even in my small frozen corner of the world I heard a rumour that FCA was that board who thought they were better than everyone else and just spent all their time criticizing other larger boards. I laughed and laughed. It's tough trying to just have fun isn't it?

??? This just blows me away! I think FCA is the least stuck-up, least exclusive, least selective of all the boards out there. And considering that this board allows almost any and every point of view to be spoken ....well, hell yeah! WE ARE better than everybody else. :F_05BL17blowkiss: We just try not to rub peoples noses in it.

As the concerts go by and Clay remains in the glasses, I think there's a possibility that glasses lovers could be having a last hurrah .... because laser eye surgery could mean no contact lenses in his eyes for at least a couple of weeks in advance of the exam. Of course, Clay could be going through a period of soreness from wearing the contacts and figures the Christmas tour is a good time to give his eyes a break before Spamalot. As usual, I'm sure he'll surprise us.

You know, I've been thinking this exact same thing, kf, but was too much of a wuss to bring it up. I was thinking that once Spamalot starts, he won't really have the option of wearing his glasses when his eyes are bothering him, and he's going to be putting in long hours. It really makes more sense to just go ahead with the laser eye surgery. It's just a guess, really. I can't wait to see if he does it.

Well luckiest1 and I are giving it 'til noon to decide to call it. Right now it doesn't look too promising.

As long as we're speculating, I don't think the glasses are in preparation for LASIK - there is too much post-op time and care for that considering he's going to Mexico then starting Spamalot in a few weeks. I still feel like it's related to the flashes, or (more likely) he's just being Clay and decided he wanted to wear them.

Cindilu, my son and I both had LASIK in 2002. He was uncomfortable for a few hours, but was out and about with his friends by evening. I drove myself home afterwards ( I didn't tell the doctor I was doing that. I just sneaked out). There was no post-op time involved at all. Clay could have it done on a Friday and be right as rain by Saturday or Sunday.

[merrieeee]

I had a friend who had Lasik and drove 4 hours to Dallas right after it! Yeah the Dr didn't know. My catatact surgery lasted 15 minutes and once the dilation stuff wore off I was fine.

I think a whole lot of people could use this right now:

My MIL's temperature still has not come down and the Pneumonia (spelling?) has not improved so we keep on hoping All Will Be Well!

[Couch Tomato]

:F_05BL17blowkiss: Merrieee... thoughts are with you!

[bottlecap]

Think I'm going to sign off for a few hours and watch the new Harry Potter DVD. Some how, I don't think even J. K. Rowling could write a story that's as wild as this crap.

[merryclay]

I thought maybe Clay was resting his eyes from the contacts and protecting them as much as he can before Spamalot. I doubt he would be able to wear his glasses than. He looks pretty hot in glasses. Some guys don't.

JJ- I'm so sorry they lied about you. Don't let it bother you. I think most people know the truth now, so don't worry.

[jmh123]

Well, I do not think everyone who hates RCA is a "poddie" or whatever... it's just that there was a contingent of folks that diluted the real thoughts by real people by spreading rumor after rumor of Clay sending them personal messages that RCA was out to get him. Unfortunately it was all wrapped together, just like all complex issues are, and anyone who hates RCA got bundled with the ones pushing it.

There are plenty of real reasons to not care for RCA if that's one's bent, but again, it's down to genuine feelings vs. pushing agendas based on lies and manipulation.

(edits of quoted stuff in red so as not to cause confusion while clarifying) Exactly. I agree with you. I also think that if you hear something over and over and over, if a critical mass of people start to express a certain POV, at a certain point it can become the popular POV even when some of the information it's based on is suspect. In my mind it's a bit like the swamp creature and his lies about Clay. A lot of non-fan types wanted to believe it, so it didn't concern them so much that the source was unreliable. It made sense to them because it fit their picture of how things are; they wanted to believe it, so they did.

Actually, the pod is not whether RCA is good or bad. There is no such thing as a good label and from what I have heard (oooh, unsourced rumor, wheeee), one label is pretty much like another except in what they can do for a performer. hence my dsidain for smaller labels that cannot get you on television shows or on store shelves.

In the beginning I must admit, I liked it as a description because it aptly did describe a few people who behaved quite differently as if they grew new personalities. One in particular got to me since she seemed on the edge of hysteria constantly and it freaked me out. Then the trashing of me on certain boards began and so I got an attitude problem from which I have yet to recover.

The pod people should come out from is the cult of fandom. The cult of the famous fan and being yes people. The mass mood. I don't care if people still hate RCA. I never really cared, except that it made the whole fandom crazy and dissention was verboten.

I think you're right playbiller. For me, the Pod was always about the way people changed, and we now know that some of them changed because they were being scammed, and others changed because they believed those folks.

What bugged me as well was the tone of bitterness and unhappiness that took over the boards, and in that, I think the scammers got exactly what they wanted. Whether or not they were the a source of the RCA hate isn't even the issue to me.

[djs111]

What bugged me as well was the tone of bitterness and unhappiness that took over the boards, and in that, I think the scammers got exactly what they wanted. Whether or not they were the source of the RCA hate isn't even the issue.

Yep. And there is a lot of misdirection going on now - no one was insisting RCA was great (although I doubt another label will be better) - it was the mean bitter stuff that sucked - and was unbelieveable.

Most of the learned treatises on Clay's career start with the premise that he will sing the kind of songs that the prognosticator likes, and so I feel start on a faulty premise.

[aikim]

Since there doesn't seem to be a thread for tonight's show...just bringing this over:

From the CB:

ClayFanNC wrote: My nephew just called me from the venue about 10 minutes ago. He said there are only about 200 people there.

Kim

[laljeterfan]

Hey, I'm just back from 6 days on the road seeing Clay, with no internet access that entire time, and I'm starting to read backwards. I see that SOMETHING is up- any advice on where I can go to get the gist of it- like what page # it all starts on?

[cindilu2]

Cindilu, my son and I both had LASIK in 2002. He was uncomfortable for a few hours, but was out and about with his friends by evening. I drove myself home afterwards ( I didn't tell the doctor I was doing that. I just sneaked out). There was no post-op time involved at all. Clay could have it done on a Friday and be right as rain by Saturday or Sunday.

I guess everybody's experience is different then. I had mine in 1999 and I too could see wonderfully right away. But there was still healing time when I was advised against dusty environments, against overly strenuous lifting/bending etc., not to mention the three weeks of different eyedrops. Anyway, I hope that if he is able and inclined to have it one day, he does it. By far the best thing I ever did for myself!!!

Since there doesn't seem to be a thread for tonight's show...just bringing this over:

From the CB:

ClayFanNC wrote: My nephew just called me from the venue about 10 minutes ago. He said there are only about 200 people there.

Kim

Yikes! Between the weather and the less-than-stellar sales for this one, I was afraid of this. Oh well - I hope when he sees that empty 6th row seat, he knows it was paid for, lolol.

There is a thread btw, here.

[YSRN]

Well, I do not think everyone who hates RCA is a "poddie" or whatever... it's just that there was a contingent of folks that diluted the real thoughts by real people by spreading rumor after rumor of Clay sending them personal messages that RCA was out to get him. Unfortunately it was all wrapped together, just like all complex issues are, and anyone who hates RCA got bundled with the ones pushing it.

There are plenty of real reasons to not care for RCA if that's one's bent, but again, it's down to genuine feelings vs. pushing agendas based on lies and manipulation.

Exactly. If you hear something over and over and over, if a critical mass of people start to express a certain POV, at a certain point it can become the popular POV even when some of the information it's based on is suspect. In my mind it's a bit like the swamp creature and his lies about Clay. A lot of non-fan types wanted to believe it, so it didn't concern them so much that the source was unreliable. It made sense to them because it fit their picture of how things are; they wanted to believe it, so they did.

I don't think we mean the same thing. Or maybe we do and I'm reading your post wrong. Heh. Cuz I can be stoopid that way. LOL!

I don't care if every single person in the world hates RCA and expresses it. Except those that make up lies to convince other people to agree with them. Or even pester people enough to try to convince them to agree with them. I'm saying there are plenty of reasons to dislike RCA and some do. For their own reasons. Not reasons kludged together and presented by some fake Clay or other falsehood. That's what I mean.

Whether or not they were the source of the RCA hate isn't even the issue.

It is for me. That's my point. Hee.

ficus says about 1000 people there... I hope she's more right. 200? Yikes!

Oh, man, laljeterfan... not sure where to tell you to start. Try going to about midnight Thursday...

CH just said "No Angela". Hmm.

[cha cha trusty]

Hello All - just a short recap before I collapse to watch the Survivor finale and I promise to try and remember to use paragraphs! I just got back 15 mins ago from Williamsport and from dropping off my daughter on the way.......

I can't believe you posted up to page 48 in the past 2 days!!

The concert was fantastic, a couple of the stories were funny, and Clay's voice was amazing!! From my seat 3rd row center I got some amazing video. I'll deal with that later!!

I got to meet Claygasm and FromClaygary! I am not sure where FG went after the concert - we met in the theatre but didn't see her at the Bull Frog across the street. But that is where I met Claygasm and we had a fun chat! I also saw Scarlett, Solo, and K'eh at the bar. A good time was had by all (especially me!!)

The snow turned out to be amazing and the late night driving was a little scary (we stayed at a friend's about 20 mins away) but no incidents were reported! This morning it was a winter wonderland and still rain/snow/sleeting - who knows? That's why they call it a "wintery mix" I guess! After we got on the road this morning (well about 1pm), it really wasn't bad, just a little wet and slushy, and getting dryer along the way. We drove thru Harrisburg which was vitually dark since they had widespread power outtages due to severe ice. It was goreous to see all that ice! (but the roads were dry)

I will post some pix and videos later!! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[laljeterfan]

Oh, man, laljeterfan... not sure where to tell you to start. Try going to about midnight Thursday...

Thanks, I'll start searching!

[merrieeee]

Angela has a family emergency back in CA

[jmh123]

Well, I do not think everyone who hates RCA is a "poddie" or whatever... it's just that there was a contingent of folks that diluted the real thoughts by real people by spreading rumor after rumor of Clay sending them personal messages that RCA was out to get him. Unfortunately it was all wrapped together, just like all complex issues are, and anyone who hates RCA got bundled with the ones pushing it.

There are plenty of real reasons to not care for RCA if that's one's bent, but again, it's down to genuine feelings vs. pushing agendas based on lies and manipulation.

Exactly. If you hear something over and over and over, if a critical mass of people start to express a certain POV, at a certain point it can become the popular POV even when some of the information it's based on is suspect. In my mind it's a bit like the swamp creature and his lies about Clay. A lot of non-fan types wanted to believe it, so it didn't concern them so much that the source was unreliable. It made sense to them because it fit their picture of how things are; they wanted to believe it, so they did.

I don't think we mean the same thing. Or maybe we do and I'm reading your post wrong. Heh. Cuz I can be stoopid that way. LOL!

I don't care if every single person in the world hates RCA and expresses it. Except those that make up lies to convince other people to agree with them. Or even pester people enough to try to convince them to agree with them. I'm saying there are plenty of reasons to dislike RCA and some do. For their own reasons. Not reasons kludged together and presented by some fake Clay or other falsehood. That's what I mean.

Whether or not they were the source of the RCA hate isn't even the issue.

It is for me. That's my point. Hee.

Sorry, I mean to delete the "Exactly" after I edited. I think the scammers were ONE source, one contributing factor. That's really all I'm saying whether that's what you are saying or not. My brain is tired now so I'm dropping the subject.