#33: Let's all chant "I think it can! I think it can! I think it can!"

[aikim]

I've seen several posts here and there where this situation has been referred to as Clay "going Hollywood" and I don't get that at all...I could never in my wildest dreams imagine Clay doing something because it was the "in thing" to do or because everybody does it.

And FYI, people outside of Hollywood have children without benefit of marriage; so that really makes no sense to me.

Considering Clay's history; I would think he would take fatherhood very seriously.

This story certainly has been an eye-opener regarding this fandom; I am seeing opinions I didn't expect...seems like a lot of true colors are coming out and that's what makes me really sad; seems some aren't as liberal and open-minded as I thought.

And I am not just talking about this board...I am talking across the fandom at all the different boards where I have been reading.

Kim

[playbiller]

The family and friends are not celebrities in the way Clay is and didn't sign on to be criticized. As much as Clay's mother may have gained from his celebrity, she also has strangers feeling free to open the door and walk in her house (until she got security) and people still walk into her office, not to hire her, but to talk about her son, it is a bit disruptive. I think the constant critique of the fans is one thing that has driven Clay private. While Clay may be a target for comments, I am not comfortable the way many of his friends and family have become fodder for threads on many boards and likethe way they are discussed here instead.

Also, since Clay has said several times taht he is not gay, until he changes his comments, it is not my job to question his past statements, so I accept what he says. Anything else is not my business.

[Clayzorback]

As for the dowqngrading comment? I think in real life that rich people marry rich people. College grads don't marry high school drop outs. People don't trade in their Cadillacs for a volkswagon bug, when they want a new car. People stay in their own social standing, circles, or whatever the hell you want to call it. That is all I meant by that comment. So hell yes, I would assume that if and when Clay marries someone it will be someone who is not an unknown. Someone of equal status and celebrity. So sue me.

While we're at it let's keep those people with abilities different from our own in the attic where they belong! We don't want them associating with us normal people. Wait a minute. I'm a superior being. Why am I associating with you normal folks?!!

When people tell me that I should only date people within 10 years of my age, I tell them that I only listen to people whose IQ is within 10 points of my own so I'm not taking their advice.

Oh, and if you were to say this to me at my workplace, yes I would sue. And I would win.

Excuse me but how did you manage to bring disabled people into this conversation? I've lost your train of thought. I don't recall ever mentioning Jaymes age in anything I've said on this topic either. Perhaps you are taking what people on other boards are saying and trying to attribute it to my posts and meanings. I haven't read a thing or associate myself with anyone else on other boards. Since when is speaking a reality mean I agree with it?

[FromClaygary]

Oh, and if you were to say this to me at my workplace, yes I would sue. And I would win.

One of the really useful things I've learned in this fandom, is not to respond to crap and people who spew it for whatever reason.

But I loved the above!

[laljeterfan]

Look. I don't think Jaymes is not good enough for Clay or anybody else. It doesn't matter to me who he latches onto.

If Clay Is not gay and was to get married I would assume that he would marry someone who was a prominant person in their own right. Not by their association to their brother. Would no one agree that having babies is a big thing with the Hollywood crowd right now? Does no one but me see the cougar movement? Am I the only one who thinks Clay, or anyone else shot to fame, would not be capable of succumbing to the Hollywood trapings? He is as human as the next person.

As for the dowqngrading comment? I think in real life that rich people marry rich people. College grads don't marry high school drop outs. People don't trade in their Cadillacs for a volkswagon bug, when they want a new car. People stay in their own social standing, circles, or whatever the hell you want to call it. That is all I meant by that comment. So hell yes, I would assume that if and when Clay marries someone it will be someone who is not an unknown. Someone of equal status and celebrity. So sue me. I think that is a normal thing to expect. True there are exceptions to this thinking but for the most part that is real life. I was not taking personal jabs at Jaymes. I don't see Clay ever marrying, at all. SO, I can see him doing having a baby this way. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. I was just speaking to my surprise that it would be Jaymes. I don't have this problem communicating in my real life. Only on Clay boards where some people (IMHO) are so OTT in their love for Clay. When you can't sit back and have a laugh at Clay's expense or be objective or tolerate anything but worship for the man, then you are the one with the problems and should seriously take a step back.

WOW- just......WOW. I suppose if one was interested only in superficiality then this method of choosing a mate would make sense. For anyone else though, I find it incredibly insulting.

SCARLETT

FROMCLAYGARY- You're probably right- I've probably already said too much. And so the editing begins.

[Couch Tomato]

There seems to be a no tolerance for any mind set other than Clay is perfect, and can do no wrong. Oh yeah, you can say something that isn't exactly flattering or popular, but you are highly encouraged not to, by the prevailing attitude that he is perfect. Add in the rule that you can't be disrespectful of him or anyone in his posse?

That rule has been here from day one... DAY ONE... it's one of the reason we wanted our own board because of the rampant disrespect for Clay and his mother and his friends. We are all smart people here, you can say whatever you want and it can be said in a way that is not disrespectful. And I know Clayzor that you, and everyone else here is really strong in character not to be browbeat into one opinion. I know I am. As long as people, all of us, want real communication, I know it can be done. There have been LOTS of laughs here over this whole thing, yet, I really don't think it's group think that that the majority do NOT believe Clay, if this is true, did it to be cool and downgrade with respects to your entire post had a very negative connotation about Jaymes. All of your explanation posts was done in an entirely different way. I'm surprised you're suprised that anyone had a different view. It was strongly worded opinion that got strongly worded responses. You can handle that.

Lucky, thanks for the info about the gala. I had given up on that due to the cost but hey, I think even I can scrape it up by the end of Julyl. So. hmmmmm..is everybody all partnered up?

AIKim... I wouldn't judge people so harshly. I know I haven't been around reading a lot of stuff but if people have issues over certain aspects of the story which of course may not be true and we have no facts on ... whether it be the age difference or AI... I don't think it's a character flaw. Of course I didn't read the OFC and I read one post over there and saw red bwah. But that was all about how Clay's life had been reduced to a PR campaign.

ETA: I will also add that to all members of the FCA who have come on in the last year - I appreciate you. I'm not one that will ever say that's the good old days because boards evolve and change and grow. I think this one has done so organically and I love it as much as ever. When boards don't grow they get stagnant. And this isn't some new feeling I have because this is now my home. First week at the CH and many times over the years, I responded every time it got into the "I miss the good old days when we were funny and things were better. It's kind of insulting and can't make anyone new feel like they belong and are appreciated. I've always felt that way wherever I've been. So, I am glad you're here.

[wandacleo]

I understand criticizing children, drug addicts,and child molesters for procreating, but I just don't think it's any business to anyone what consenting adults do. And, I can't help but feel that it's a tad offensive to suggest that in today's world there are rules about who should marry/procreate/date etc whom. Jesus. My family is clearly screwed. One nephew is (very happily) married to a woman 20 years his senior, one is gay and lives with a man. My family comprises just about every color.

I'd kill for a VW bug.

[aikim]

Couchie I know people are still trying to wrap their minds around this and there are a lot of questions; but after being on the boards for the past 5 years; you think you know people and what there reaction is going to be to certain things and it just took me by surprise that some of the reactions were not what I expected.

Kim

[playbiller]

Well, I traded a corvette for a saturn, does that count?

My point about the primitive folk just discovered is that I cannot say their life is better or worse than mine, it is just different. I have friends who dropped out, I have friends with advanced degrees, I have friends of all ages, colors, genders, shapes, political persuasions, and nationalities. Some work, some don't, some have money and some just don't. I like interesting people with different viewpoints (hence I am used to disagreeing with people without animosity). I have been blessed by the people in my life. I don't really have a social circle, just a bunch of individuals, but when I give a party, it is usually an eyeopener with the combination of people, only a few actually know or like each other. Ha!

[luckiest1]

An air of superiority or something has integrated this board. There seems to be a no tolerance for any mind set other than Clay is perfect, and can do no wrong. Oh yeah, you can say something that isn't exactly flattering or popular, but you are highly encouraged not to, by the prevailing attitude that he is perfect. Add in the rule that you can't be disrespectful of him or anyone in his posse? Well, duh, that kind of leaves no room for anything except rose colored glasses. I don't expect people to agree with everything I say or think. I don't have a problem if they call me on something. The only time I have a problem is when they are disrespectful to me in their disagreement. When they cop an attitude and inject a tone of disdain towards me, then I/we have problem. The need to keep quoting my post and going on and on about how insulting it was. Even long after you try to explain yourself. That's were the pile on and trouble starts for me.

WOW. Ok, part one, I don't think there is ONE SINGLE PERSON here who thinks Clay is perfect, and can do no wrong. Where in the hell did you get that? Part two, this is a Clay fan board. We do not disrespect Clay or his family and friends here. That does not mean we think they are perfect, it means we extend the usual "you must respect each poster's opinion" rule that you will find on most message boards to include Clay & co. Not so hard to understand, is it?

If Clay Is not gay and was to get married I would assume that he would marry someone who was a prominant person in their own right. Not by their association to their brother. Would no one agree that having babies is a big thing with the Hollywood crowd right now? Does no one but me see the cougar movement? Am I the only one who thinks Clay, or anyone else shot to fame, would not be capable of succumbing to the Hollywood trapings? He is as human as the next person.

Sure, he is as human as the next person, but from what I know of him (what he has chosen to share) I do not think he has or will ever fall prey to the "trappings" of celebrity.

As for the dowqngrading comment? I think in real life that rich people marry rich people. College grads don't marry high school drop outs. People don't trade in their Cadillacs for a volkswagon bug, when they want a new car. People stay in their own social standing, circles, or whatever the hell you want to call it. That is all I meant by that comment. So hell yes, I would assume that if and when Clay marries someone it will be someone who is not an unknown. Someone of equal status and celebrity. So sue me. I think that is a normal thing to expect. True there are exceptions to this thinking but for the most part that is real life. I was not taking personal jabs at Jaymes. I don't see Clay ever marrying, at all. SO, I can see him doing having a baby this way. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. I was just speaking to my surprise that it would be Jaymes. I don't have this problem communicating in my real life. Only on Clay boards where some people (IMHO) are so OTT in their love for Clay. When you can't sit back and have a laugh at Clay's expense or be objective or tolerate anything but worship for the man, then you are the one with the problems and should seriously take a step back.

I must live in a different society, then. People stay within their social standing? Sounds like something from the Victorian era. WTF? And you never see Clay marrying? Even though he's said time and time and time again how much he'd like to be married? And have children? OK then. I wouldn't be surprised to find out he's been married for a while now and just never let us in on it.

I had no problem with Ansamcw's admin note. I didn't take it personally and she Pm'ed me about it. I thanked her. We're good. I respect her and couchie and this board. Sometimes I think I should just keep my opinions to myself and friends in PM. But then I think the more it seems people are ignoring me or trying to run me off the more I think I will stick around. I think if a person is looking for negativity, where none was intended, they can always twist things around to find it.

I don't see anyone trying to run you off the board. I see people disagreeing with your opinions. I see people shocked at your opinions. And yeah, I have to admit, I see some disrespect of Clay & co in your posts. So sue me.

[Clayzorback]

There seems to be a no tolerance for any mind set other than Clay is perfect, and can do no wrong. Oh yeah, you can say something that isn't exactly flattering or popular, but you are highly encouraged not to, by the prevailing attitude that he is perfect. Add in the rule that you can't be disrespectful of him or anyone in his posse?

That rule has been here from day one... DAY ONE... it's one of the reason we wanted our own board because of the rampant disrespect for Clay and his mother and his friends. We are all smart people here, you can say whatever you want and it can be said in a way that is not disrespectful. And I know Clayzor that you, and everyone else here is really strong in character not to be browbeat into one opinion. I know I am. As long as people, all of us, want real communication, I know it can be done. There have been LOTS of laughs here over this whole thing, yet, I really don't think it's group think that that the majority do NOT believe Clay, if this is true, did it to be cool and downgrade with respects to your entire post had a very negative connotation about Jaymes. All of your explanation posts was done in an entirely different way. I'm surprised you're suprised that anyone had a different view. It was strongly worded opinion that got strongly worded responses. You can handle that.

Lucky, thanks for the info about the gala. I had given up on that due to the cost but hey, I think even I can scrape it up by the end of Julyl. So. hmmmmm..is everybody all partnered up?

AIKim... I wouldn't judge people so harshly. I know I haven't been around reading a lot of stuff but if people have issues over certain aspects of the story which of course may not be true and we have no facts on ... whether it be the age difference or AI... I don't think it's a character flaw. Of course I didn't read the OFC and I read one post over there and saw red bwah. But that was all about how Clay's life had been reduced to a PR campaign.

I know that the rule has been here from day one, couchie. I never once thought my thoughts about this would be taken so literally and with such vile hatred. Being able to state your opinion with out being called IGNORANT, used to be the norm around too............Why the disrespect aimed at me, or Claygasm or anyone else who has a differing opinion about something? I don't recall that atitude being as prevalent as it has become on here. Yes I can take care of myself, but I feel like I have been a member here long enough that the regular members here should know by now that I am a die hard fan of Clay's. That I respect him his mother and his friends and should not have to explain every post I make. I used to think I was a part of this board and becoming a valued member. Not anymore, though, and I just think it is sad that people want to find negativiety and disrespect for Clay from me.

[00lsee]

Clayzorback, if it matters, my remarks to you were never intended to feel disrespectful or disdainful toward you, personally. I was distressed by what you said and how you said it...and only quoted your posts in an effort to communicate WHY.

And felt, in my turn, painfully misunderstood.

Again, as I posted yesterday, if I have misjudged you, please accept my apologies. In the interests of honesty and my own self-respect, that's really all I can say.

[luckiest1]

This story certainly has been an eye-opener regarding this fandom; I am seeing opinions I didn't expect...seems like a lot of true colors are coming out and that's what makes me really sad; seems some aren't as liberal and open-minded as I thought.

And I am not just talking about this board...I am talking across the fandom at all the different boards where I have been reading.

I agree with you.

Lucky, thanks for the info about the gala. I had given up on that due to the cost but hey, I think even I can scrape it up by the end of Julyl. So. hmmmmm..is everybody all partnered up?

Why do we need to be partnered up? These are individual tickets, right? Or do you mean for hotel, etc? In that case, I plan to stay with friends, sowwy. :F_05BL17blowkiss: But look forward to seeing you there! I hope we can do an FCA get together again. That would be fun. My plan is to fly in on the Friday before the gala and then to stay for part of the next week, as a bit of a vacation.

[KAndre]

Ya know, Clayzor, you right, in general people do "stick with their own kind", but honestly there are enough exceptions to that generality for most people not to look at "strange" pairing with shock and awe. And frankly, there's a lot of room between "disrespectful" and "rose-colored glasses". Calling somebody a "downgrade" is disrespectful. It's a MAJOR line for a lot of people, especially a lot of people to whom something like that has been said in real life. I've had a guy actually explain to me that he guessed I was glad that my sister married "up" to a white guy. It did not go over well. It's saying someone is of less worth. Saying you think she's too old for him? Not disrespectful. Saying she's not as big as a celebrity? Not disrespectful. Not as talented, not as cute...all fine, all your opinion, you're entitled to it. But what you said hit a hot button for a lot of people. And individuals responded.

"Prevailing attitude" that Clay is perfect? Bullshit. The closest thing I see to a prevailing attitude is that he has a much better grasp of what's good for him, his family and his career than anyone on the outside looking in. At this point, on most of the subjects that come up, I think he's doing OK. Hell, nothing he's done bothers me as much as the blond thing (which I admit I bitch about) but beyond that - what has Clay or his posse done that requires us to be disrespectful? Called our children ugly? Bitchslapped our mamas? Told us we were fat? Nobody is making anybody wear rose-colored goggles, but ya know what? In general, mostly people who like Clay post here. Therefore most people who post here give him the benefit of the doubt. That's how this works. I personally don't think everyone here likes everything he does (mouse song singing, anyone?) but that fan thing usually means you like a lot of what he does. If you can't stand up to the prevailing wind, that's not our issue. I personally didn't like ANY of the AOL sessions. Read what seemed to be everyone's deep and abiding love, shrugged and went on. Still don't feel forced into liking them. "Prevailing attitude" or no.

[Couch Tomato]

Atheletes and celebrities IMO are not a social class. They got rich on a talent or something they were born with. Just because Magic Johnson can pass a basketball doesn't make him uppercrust LOL. Let him try to marry a Rockerfeller and see how that's taken. If I applied your rules to Clay and Jaymes Clayzor, IMO he is out of HER league not the other way around. But the world has vastly changed since people only married their cousins twice removed just to keep the line pure. IMO. That's why the downgrade was something I completely disagreed with. I guess I think Clay would marry a Raleigh girl that he knew 6 years ago before he would marry a celebrity. Most celebrities DON'T marry celebrities. It's the anomaly of that which keeps the tabloids pumping along.

[Ansamcw]

Generalization is never pretty...it irks me.

I don't know if some people on FCA think Clay's perfect...I don;t know if some people worship Clay....but I know there is no board rule that he is perfect and that people cannot criticize him. Not wanting people to disrespect him does not mean we think he is perfect. It is possible to criticize to give concerns without actual bashing, its all in the choice of words.

In my view of Clay...I actually never imagined him marrying a celebrity. I always thought that he will be more attracted to someone that is not in the business. I don't think Clay will go for an empty headed bimbo cos I do believe he needs to have someone that he can talk to or relate to, but intelligence, integrity, strength is not in social status, career or even in education. So I don;t think that Clay is one to look at a persons status or acceptability in the celebrity realm before he can have a relationship with them. I just never took him to be a snob or into trying to be cool.

WORD couchie about the "good ol days".

[annabear]

For playbiller, to help with the mouse issue. =>

I believe I've seen that post-it note floating around my home on more than one occasion....

[playbiller]

Fear is trying to talk me into getting an individual ticket, but I don't thinkI can afford being a fan of this guy. It would also include plane fare and boarding for the dog and and and basic disruption of my boring. Then there would be taht auction with things I want but can't afford, etc. I think I get my share of opprotunities seing as how many times I ended up at Spamalot and basically saw Clay every time he has been on a NY stage.

[keepingfaith]

Back in 2005 when Clay was in Vancouver and gave the TV interview to The Standard, when he was asked what he's looking for in a woman and mentioned strong, independent, and passionate about something ... wasn't he staying with Jaymes at her house? I remember that from somewhere.

http://www.clackunlimited.com/clack/TV_App...e/The_Standard/

Raleigh is so cute in that interview.

[Thankful4Clay]

Clay's spins are still increasing on AC:

#29 - CLAY AIKEN - On My Way Here - 87 spins during this 7 day period vs. 78 spins from the last 7 day period for a gain of 9 spins and an audience/million rating of 0.248.

This is GOOD!

[ToldForThis]

I notice that many/some are going back to December and looking at things from a different viewpoint and so I decided to join in to have a look. In doing so, I see a few things that could point to the fact that he just learned/knows that he is going to be a father. I see a happy man.

......Except for the one picture that was taken by a fan at GMA. He was waiting to go on stage and the camera caught him with a very sad look and tears in his eyes. It apparently did not last long, but that picture did something to me.

Did you also see the fan pics from GMA, that showed Quiana and Clay removing/trying to remove something from his eye? Everything in perspective....

I saw a picture of Quiana trying to get a stray hair back in place and read that Clay finally just pulled it out. I did not think that was in the same sequence of pictures.

[Couch Tomato]

Clay's spins are still increasing on AC:

#29 - CLAY AIKEN - On My Way Here - 87 spins during this 7 day period vs. 78 spins from the last 7 day period for a gain of 9 spins and an audience/million rating of 0.248.

This is GOOD!

YAY I'm glad to see this.

[00lsee]

Clay's spins are still increasing on AC:

#29 - CLAY AIKEN - On My Way Here - 87 spins during this 7 day period vs. 78 spins from the last 7 day period for a gain of 9 spins and an audience/million rating of 0.248.

This is GOOD!

So, any way ordinary folks can encourage this? I requested "On My Way Here" one time at my local AC station (which I understand is not where his song would be played yet...not until it is a "hit") and once at a Beaumont station that streams (that was on the list of those playing the song). But I haven't persisted. Should I?

[annabear]

Clay's spins are still increasing on AC:

#29 - CLAY AIKEN - On My Way Here - 87 spins during this 7 day period vs. 78 spins from the last 7 day period for a gain of 9 spins and an audience/million rating of 0.248.

This is GOOD!

YAY I'm glad to see this.

[luckiest1]

Back in 2005 when Clay was in Vancouver and gave the TV interview to The Standard, when he was asked what he's looking for in a woman and mentioned strong, independent, and passionate about something ... wasn't he staying with Jaymes at her house? I remember that from somewhere.

http://www.clackunlimited.com/clack/TV_App...e/The_Standard/

Raleigh is so cute in that interview.

Hee, I love all these clips you are bringing back, reminding me of. Just watched the Standard interview again, that was a great one. And I do believe that yes, he was staying at Jaymes' house that time. Now I need to go dig out that JBT footage!