#33: Let's all chant "I think it can! I think it can! I think it can!"

[Ansamcw]

WOW Clay was sure feisty in that interview...I love it...

Iseeme, your posts always makes me think...unfortunately I just haven;t had the chance to really respond until now....

Buble vs Clay:

I think there are a lot of differences in their career that made it seem like Micheal has had it easier than Clay...

> First of all...Buble came to the international music scene with a musical identity and a focused market and target demographic. There was no question that he is a cover artist singing standards so the critics immediately viewed his products in that context. Clay on the other hand was a dilemma. On AI people pegged him as the crooner ... or the teen heartthrob which means two different direction. His first single TITN seemed like he was being groomed for the AC market...but RCA decided to court the teen market and top 40 with Invisible. In retrospect this was probably a mistake because the critics and even some of the AI fans didn't think this was a good fit as he said its putting his square peg in a round hole. So now critics are still looking at his work as if he is trying to be a top 40 artist even if he has said that is no longer their goal.

> Micheal was not an overnight sensation. He has been in this business for a long time and he was not selling platinum right away either. I think his break out hit was Home and that was not an overnight hit either. The CD that came from wasn't a blockbuster right from the start. This is one of those CDs that had long legs because of the slow build and long exposure on AC radio. Clay on the other hand was an overnight success. With Rolling Stone cover, multiplatinum sales his first week...that was an anomaly, and the kind of success critics love to poke holes in because they don't think he has earned his cred yet.

> Their image is also very different. Micheal has that cool rat pack persona. Clay has always been a self proclaimed geek that people think is in the closet...

>Micheal came into prominence because of his Music. Clay is well known for the Loser of AI2 that beat the winner in sales....Because Clay hasn't had a major hit but still gets major buzz in the media, he is seen as a celebrity first then a recording star second.

> Clay has a cult following that is considered...a bit cra enthusiastic...

....I think Clay at this point is on the right track to establish his musical identity. But he is forging his own path because he is not totally AC like Buble and Groban...and he is a bit more AC than John Mayer. He is in between these two path and people the industry are not used to a person that won't be pigeon holed. So his journey as a recording artist won't be easy. Its like he is starting from scratch now but I am confident that he will continue to build his audience if we could just be patient and not try and ram Clay down people's throats.

I always thought the plan was this....

Use to momentum of the Spamalot run to get good TV promo and hope that the fans would give the CD good initial sales. THEN the fanbase building will start with the use of radio and the internet as Clay takes a break. Then Clay comes back promoting next single and probably with tour plans.

Most recording artist don;t follow this plan because they would have a hard time getting any TV promo if they do not have a hit climbing the charts. So they would usually have the first single out to radio for weeks before they release the full CD...hoping it will build enough audience and attention so they could be booked on nationwide TV shows during the week their CD drops. In a way Clay is like the big recording stars that he has enough celebrity power that he can go on a TV promo with a very small lead time and with no real hit on the chart. Now at this point its natural that he will have a huge drop in sales after the hardcore fanbase has bought the CD. Now he needs to get the casual fans attention and the non fans to like the CD... he will have to be in line with the other artist that are relying on a slow and steady radio exposure for this while he is resting.

I think the reason why the fans think this is it and no more promo and the CD is doomed because that was the pattern of the ATDW promo. BUT that CD was considered by TC as a niche album. I think thats because Clay didn't want to be known as a cover artist so they didn't want that CD to define Clay. So they let it die out and they worked on this CD right away. BUT....OMWH is very different. This is the kind of songs Clay wants to be known for. He needs this CD to be successful. He needs this CD to establish him on radio so I don't think they will let this die out. If Clay wasn't too tired at this point I bet he would be out there with a concert and visiting radio stations and trying to get more promo. BUT the guy needs to take a break. Its a risk he has to take...and I think we just have to be patient and have faith in his talent and this CD that people will continue to hear it, love it and buy it for months to come.

ASHES....I really don't have anything against this song. I like it and maybe it would be a good single, but it is not my favorite. BUT the people that are trying to force the issue or just wont let it go is doing it a great disservice cos its just creating a division in the fandom that Clay does not need.

[luckiest1]

if you claim he's got titanium balls, why not let him use them?

Thread title?

Off to a meeting......later.

[Claygasm]

Ducky - I emailed Catey Hill at WJBR because several years ago she was very nice and responsive. But I never heard a word back. I said I had heard him on Kimmel and wondered if they would be adding the song to their playlist. I also joined whatever you sign up for to do surveys. I forget wat its called but it was on the lower right part of their website. They email you when they have a survey. I had one and it was a Rate the Music type thing. Guess we'll see what happens but I am not bugging her again unless and until OMWH moves up more significantly on one of the charts.

'You tell me you're here forever, but act like you're passing through. Which one's the real you? Are you only practicin' until you find the real thing? Takin' up space, until you find yourself that perfect face. Are you lookin' over my shoulder? Am I enough, or just your Sacrificial Love?'

I think that Clay will never be enough for some people, because he's not who they want him to be.

OK, thinking about these lyrics in relation to his fans was like a whoa moment.......

[ldyjocelyn]

if you claim he's got titanium balls, why not let him use them?

Thread title?

Off to a meeting......later.

Oh good Lord, if that wins, we're back to a thread title that can't be seen publicly at work! Hee.

We've all got OPINIONS about things. For example, I actually do like Michael Buble, and have most of his albums. Probably won't travel across the country to see him in concert, but if he came to my area, I would consider it. I know there are just as many out there who don't like him -- doesn't bother me in the slightest. So, when someone says they think Clay's voice is "thin" -- I may not agree with it at all, but I also know it is just their own opinion. It doesn't make it "right or wrong," and yet, that's another thing that makes this world so interesting, our varying opinions.

[Cotton]

Confessions of former idol Clay Aiken

“That’s what’s so great about America,” he said, laughing. “One of our valuable amendments to the Constitution — freedom of the press — is also one of the crappiest. You can write anything you want. You don’t need to have any proof or any truth to what you write.”

Wow! Wow and more WOW!

I hope this travels EVERYWHERE!!!

Gibby! Love the pics! Esp the one with the branches dripping in the foreground!

There was somebody else I thought I quoted but lost it???

Gotta go to work today - so no time to catch up.

Will somebody stream a couple of times at AOL,, etc, for me today?!

Have a great day! I work 1 - 8 with a 1hr+ drive so I won't have much computer time at all. If all Clay breaks loose - SOMEBODY CALL ME!!!

[laughn]

Ansa wrote:

...I think Clay at this point is on the right track to establish his musical identity. But he is forging his own path because he is not totally AC like Buble and Groban...and he is a bit more AC than John Mayer. He is in between these two path and people the industry are not used to a person that won't be pigeon holed. So his journey as a recording artist won't be easy. Its like he is starting from scratch now but I am confident that he will continue to build his audience if we could just be patient and not try and ram Clay down people's throats.

This is precisely how I feel. And a big for your entire post. Not that I or any other person need agree with what you said. The beauty of a message board is that everyone can, and will, voice their opinions and they don't have to mirror anyone else's thoughts. But, you really said for me everything I've been feeling for the last few days...so thank you!

[claytonic]

if you claim he's got titanium balls, why not let him use them?

Thread title?

Off to a meeting......later.

Oh good Lord, if that wins, we're back to a thread title that can't be seen publicly at work! Hee.

We've all got OPINIONS about things. For example, I actually do like Michael Buble, and have most of his albums. Probably won't travel across the country to see him in concert, but if he came to my area, I would consider it. I know there are just as many out there who don't like him -- doesn't bother me in the slightest. So, when someone says they think Clay's voice is "thin" -- I may not agree with it at all, but I also know it is just their own opinion. It doesn't make it "right or wrong," and yet, that's another thing that makes this world so interesting, our varying opinions.

WOW, Clay's voice is anything but thin! But as you say, it's just an opinion!

There isn't anything about Clay that I would change other than what I've said previously, that I wish he'd write songs because there is so much depth to him. But I was more than happy with ATDW, covers by Clay are just fine by me, after all, he made it on AI on the strength of the way he delivered covers. Oh and the hair, the hair... I'd like it a little darker... but really, the thing about Clay that I admire most of all is that he's the real deal. He doesn't try to conform just to fit in the crowd, and that's an attractive quality to me. I loathe the sheep mentality, where everyone does what's expected of them and individuality is suppressed. The fact that people are different is what makes them interesting.

[Claygasm]

So, around the Clay Nation many are waiting (some anxiously) for Clay to be dropped from RCA. If every singer who sold "only" 130K or so in 3 weeks were dropped from their label, would anyone still be signed to a label? Is Gavin McGraw about to be dropped from J Records for "only" selling a similar amount in the same amount of time despite A LOT of radio??

Why do so many want him to be dropped from the label? Is that ever a good thing? Talk about bad publicity!

[annabear]

I've got a terrible headache this morning, so even though I'd like to respond to some of the wonderful posts here I just can't seem to get my thoughts together and into coherent written form.... I will say, however, that Claytonic's signature just about had me doing this with my coffee!

Belated :bday: wishes to 00lsee! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Oh. And I LOVE Clay (even more) in that article Thankful brought over!

[bottlecap]

So if I got out of bed around midnight tonight and do some flipping back and forth on the remote, I can catch Clay's appearances on both Leno and Kimmel? Sa-WEEEET! Double the CUTENESS, double the fun, bay-bee!

:4:

[KAndre]

My, what interesting and not boring people you are! OK, now you will get my opinions (many of which are cribbed from y'all's opinions):

I agree with what seems to be three-quarters of the comments by people in the music industry and Clay and Ansa - Clay's a different duck than anyone else out there. Really, he is. You know how some bitch about the "stay in your lane" comments? Well, his lane is everyone else's in the music biz "path not taken". And he and I are enjoying ourselves along the way. He is not bestriding the world like a Colossus - but then, no one is. The ones that come closest, hell, as far as I tell, more than half of the vocal online fandom hates. Oooo, that 'rap crap'. I'll bet half the people trying to solicit opinions from their teenagers and their friends hate most of what the teenagers listen too. Ashes is fine, but honestly? I don't find it to be better or worse that OMWH. Of course, As Long kicks all kinds of ass, so there ya go. I still say the majority of the fandom doesn't look at enough promo for other artists to determine how good or bad or odd Clay's promo is.

And frankly, djs apparently just plucked this out of my frontal lobe (where it was easily accessible):

"Clay would be a success if he would just talk about other stuff, sing other stuff, work with other people, wear different clothes, kiss wimmen and grope them in public just to prove he is straight, take more credit, spend less time on that silly charity stuff, get someone else to do his hair or be his mother or get different producers/representation/PR/whateverthecrap, listen to MEEEEEEE". Really, it is not about Clay himself any more, IMO. It seems like some fans need self-validation or something.

The only people I have seen declaring Clay's career as being over are fans. Not critics, not Clive, not RCA, not comics, not tabloids. Fans have declared his career dead with You Were There, the Joyful Noise Tours, the Jukebox Tour, ATDW, and now with this. But I bet when he filled out the "Your Occupation" box on his 1040, he didn't think his career was over when he put down "Entertainer" and said bad words at the amount of taxes he paid (which were probably more than what the doomsayers made).

I think Clay can be seriously hot and seriously sexy, but damn, the man can be seriously dorky looking too. And sometimes, he looks just downright bad. Most of the time, he looks like a regular guy. Regular guys in general are not finger lickin' good. And you know the minute he declared he was "sexy", some intrepid reporter would pull out 50 billion pictures of him in those raggedy cargo shorts and mandals he swears are "still good" and that green pilled up polo shirt with the yellow collar....

Clive Davis? The minute he said something like, "Eh, I like the boy", half the people wishing he were dead (which is just wrong on so many levels) would decide to love his wrinkly old butt. But he is convenient to blame for things. OK, if this thing I just typed up in Portugese (I swear to God, in Portugese) is wrong and when I take it to the General Counsel and he laughs me out of the office, I'm telling my boss Clive Davis did it.

Clay's rant? Ha, for so many "experts", 'da Nile' is not just a river in Egypt.

KAndre thinks fondly on Clay in a gold shirt - what can she say? She's old school Trek!

Just cause this needs to be seen repeatedly.

He is almost 30. He doesn't need an army of mommies to take care of him.

That really says it all. He's a fuckin' grown ass man. Who does what the hell he wants (damn, that's hot). As far as I can tell, he knows who he wants to deal with, who he wants to associate with, what he wants to do, how he wants to do it. And all the bitching fans in the world remind me of those kinds of nagging wives/husbands that declare they only want what best for you and want to fix you and are shocked, SHOCKED when you divorce their ass.

Man, I loved that interview. Clay is a Singer - and will not put up with shit when it comes to singing. He is not humble or self effacing when it comes to singing because I think Clay has a better grasp of his self worth than some give him credit for. The sexy? Feh. The geek thing? Yep (but of course, I personally am very fond of geeks). The musician thing? Like I said, I don't think of him as a musician. But the singing? That's him, and if you don't want to hear the truth, you better not ask him.

Ooooo...

I heard Sacrificial Love come up in my playlist while I was working out last night, and it made me think a bit about the fandom. Think about these words sung to fans:

'You tell me you're here forever, but act like you're passing through. Which one's the real you? Are you only practicin' until you find the real thing? Takin' up space, until you find yourself that perfect face. Are you lookin' over my shoulder? Am I enough, or just your Sacrificial Love?'

I think that Clay will never be enough for some people, because he's not who they want him to be.

I am so not a lyric person, but that though made me think...and something resonated with me.

And Ansa's post up there is mine too. And ldyj's too, except for the having Bublé's albums part - I think I have the one song of his I like.

I agree with claytonic on the darker hair. And mostly on the dog thing. Heh! Still don't care about the songwriting thing.

[luckiest1]

Meeting is over, and I still have a job. Things are looking up.

Somehow, someway, the littledick music critics decided Clay was a joke. I don't think it would have mattered which single he put out - the fix was in! He was dead in the water before he was even out of the chute.

While I agree that some critics (and some of the NJU in general) seem to have decided that Clay is a joke, and don't even listen before they criticize, I don't think it's a universal thing. I've seen good, bad, and neutral reviews this time around. I also think it's a wee bit early to be saying he's "dead in the water". Let's give it a chance to grow! Remember the thread title, heh.

I have been away from the boards a bit, and have stopped reading all but this one, because all the studious and pointless negativity just really weirds me out. "Clay would be a success if he would just talk about other stuff, sing other stuff, work with other people, wear different clothes, kiss wimmen and grope them in public just to prove he is straight, take more credit, spend less time on that silly charity stuff, get someone else to do his hair or be his mother or get different producers/representation/PR/whateverthecrap, listen to MEEEEEEE". Really, it is not about Clay himself any more, IMO. It seems like some fans need self-validation or something.

<snip>

Heeee.....I remember reading how Clay could sing the phone book, and people would love it. The reality is, there would be people going Oh, no, not THAT phonebook, that city is not the right demographic! He should just sing letters A, O, and T from the really really cool phonebook! The one with the cool cover! The one from New York! The one from Los Angeles! Because those are the phone numbers that count! OMG! Who told him to sing the Raleigh phone book? I bet it was Faye - off with her head! I bet it was Clive! He gave all the really awesome phone books to other singers because he is trying to do Clay in!

Hee, loved these two paragraphs!

I think I'm somewhat in the middle of Iseeme and djs, honestly. I think there is some definite prejudice out there -- but IMO much of it was created by the fans. I also hold it in my heart that prejudices can be overcome, and again, I think the fans can help with this. Acting calm and rationally when writing a comment on a blog/review/AOL Sessions can help. *g*

Yeah that.

I'd like to support it, but haven't found the right vehicle. I stream from suggested sources on occasion, but haven't made any requests.

Yeah, I would love to help OMWH on it's way up the charts, too, but unfortunately I'm in Canada, and there's not much we can do. I have emailed my local AC station and requested, but it's pretty much a given here that they won't play anything until it's already a 'hit' in the US. So I stream, I participate in local AC surveys, and I stay positive. Not a lot else I can do.

Ashes? FLOVE it. It's my newest ringtone. But I have no idea if it would have done better than OMWH as the first single.....sometimes what the fans like is not what the NJU like. I think people with much more knowledge than me should make decisions like that. I think Clay was involved in the decision. I think fans should let him run his own business, and support his decisions (since they claim to be his 'fan' you would think they'd have his best interests at heart). [/naive]

It's Summer time. Why are people not outdoors enjoying it? Why spend all their time on the board engaging in the same 5 year old conversations? Time to get back to life and your family. Get out and do things before the snow hits us again. JMO and all. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

I have no problem with this advice!

[Cotton]

he is not helplessly waiting for things to happen, for some deus ex machina to fix things. Within the parameters of the world, he controls his own destiny.

That's what kills me.

How can anyone who's been through the last 5 years with this man think he is DONE!??!

It's MADNESS, I tell ya'. MADNESS!

BTW, SL came up on my player a bit ago and I had a BRILLIANT - hush - idea for a montage.

Would get lots of hits off of the AI Au Courant Chosen One.

Take SL and put pics and vids of KimberMEEE and DC together. Lots of AI tags and KimberMEEE tags and DC tags.

Instant gazillion hits.

I know. I crack myself up.

I do have to start my longassed drive to work in a little bit, but I got ready early (shock!) so I caught up.

Have a great day, all!

[underthespell]

Really. I don't understand the defeatism.

And yeah, I wish people would just listen to Clay.

He is almost 30. He doesn't need an army of mommies to take care of him.

Cotton, WORD.

So many great thoughts here. I am also tired of the defeatism. What an oasis this board is. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[laughn]

KAndre wrote:

The only people I have seen declaring Clay's career as being over are fans. Not critics, not Clive, not RCA, not comics, not tabloids. Fans have declared his career dead with You Were There, the Joyful Noise Tours, the Jukebox Tour, ATDW, and now with this. But I bet when he filled out the "Your Occupation" box on his 1040, he didn't think his career was over when he put down "Entertainer" and said bad words at the amount of taxes he paid (which were probably more than what the doomsayers made).

S'true

[muskifest]

Ansa...I don't always agree with you but your last post had me nodding and my "right click and save" finger twitching to copy for quoting. Problem was that I ended up agreeing with about 95% of the whole danged thing, so there ya go. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

And djs...loved this--It CMSU!:

Heeee.....I remember reading how Clay could sing the phone book, and people would love it. The reality is, there would be people going Oh, no, not THAT phonebook, that city is not the right demographic! He should just sing letters A, O, and T from the really really cool phonebook! The one with the cool cover! The one from New York! The one from Los Angeles! Because those are the phone numbers that count! OMG! Who told him to sing the Raleigh phone book? I bet it was Faye - off with her head! I bet it was Clive! He gave all the really awesome phone books to other singers because he is trying to do Clay in!

However, I disagree about the letters he should sing. Most definitely he should warble the letters S-E-X-G-0-D. (sometimes...except when he looks like the Jenna Bush pic. or maybe that fashion runway appearance or... heh)

Gibby, I've related those lyrics in Sac Love (ooooh....I LIKE that abbreviation! ) to his fans, too, and I find that kinda sad.

KAndre, you've got to stop perpetrating the "Clay as a duck" metaphor because the phrase 'fuckaduck' will NOT leave my brain and I really MUST think of something else...(Muski lapses into Maynard G. Krebbs imitation and squawks "WORK!")

Ah....gonna do myself a favor this morning and forego any little trips on other boards...don't wanna know how far Soundscan or HDD is 'off' ; how Clay's latest interview is going to have sound bites taken out of context and skewered on various blogs; how Scarlett Johansen's AOL Sessions are getting more hits than Clay's (or not--I have no idea); how we all had better find another hobby since Clay will no doubt be getting dropped from RCA soon, etc.

Tonight my younger daughter's drama class is presenting their rendition of Harry Potter! Yesterday she got an "A" on a social studies research project that she really, really worked hard on and she actually commented on how it made such a difference that she put in the time on it! I'm really, REALLY enjoying the book I'm reading! (Sure, my ass is spreading to make sure all possible square centimeters of seat cushion of my office chair are being fully utilized, but let's not be distracted by such inconsequential details...)

Life is GOOD! Have a good one, women! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[Couch Tomato]

Why do so many want him to be dropped from the label? Is that ever a good thing? Talk about bad publicity!

People have been praying for this for years. Now I have no problem with Clay leaving RCA on his own volition and deciding he wants to do something else, be in sign with another label, produce himself, not sing at all (it would kill me and I would spend the rest of my life downloading every peice of clack ever made; fortunately I think he loves it too much to give it up) or whatever. So why are people whining about it now as it's what they have been screaming from the rooftops for a long time. Deal with the karma of it like the woman you think you are.

So many good posts; no time to respond!

Happy Thursday!

Lucky We need to chat about this job stuff! heh.

[luckiest1]

So why are people whining about it now as it's what they have been screaming from the rooftops for a long time. Deal with the karma of it like the woman you think you are.

From what I understand, they aren't whining about it, they are celebrating it! (as if it's a given that it will happen) Personally I think they're out of their minds for 1) thinking it is going to happen and 2) thinking it would be a good thing if it did.

Hee, yeah, couchie, catch me on IM and we will talk!

[atinal]

I have been away from the boards a bit, and have stopped reading all but this one, because all the studious and pointless negativity just really weirds me out. "Clay would be a success if he would just talk about other stuff, sing other stuff, work with other people, wear different clothes, kiss wimmen and grope them in public just to prove he is straight, take more credit, spend less time on that silly charity stuff, get someone else to do his hair or be his mother or get different producers/representation/PR/whateverthecrap, listen to MEEEEEEE". Really, it is not about Clay himself any more, IMO. It seems like some fans need self-validation or something.

Heeee.....I remember reading how Clay could sing the phone book, and people would love it. The reality is, there would be people going Oh, no, not THAT phonebook, that city is not the right demographic! He should just sing letters A, O, and T from the really really cool phonebook! The one with the cool cover! The one from New York! The one from Los Angeles! Because those are the phone numbers that count! OMG! Who told him to sing the Raleigh phone book? I bet it was Faye - off with her head! I bet it was Clive! He gave all the really awesome phone books to other singers because he is trying to do Clay in!

Sorry for the rant, I just don't really see all the negative stuff. Clay is a talented singer, a lot of people acknowledge that in print, he himself said things take a long time (unless folks think someone MADE him say that :-). That's another thing, it was funny at first, but I wonder if some people know how stupid and obvious it looks when they take anything Clay says that agrees with their own agenda (or the one they got from listening to FC crap, I feel a LOT of people were taken in by that) - as The Truth, and declare anything he says that does not fit the agenda as misdirection, or someone made him say it.

djs, loved your whole post but I picked out my favorite parts.

So, are there really rumors that Clay has had plastic surgery?

When I read the interview from last night, I immediately thought of the Country Music award show that was on a couple of weeks ago. I think I missed the first half hour. I was looking for something to watch and because of a lack of anything else I decided to watch. It's funny I hardly know any of the performers any more. What I will say is that if this is the show that Clay was referring to, I absolutely agree with him. One in particular that I remember was Kellie Pickler, I'm not sure if she ever found the right key on her song. I did see a couple of singers mess with their ear pieces. Garth Brooks, someone whose albums I own most of, did not sound at all good in his medley and when Tricia came out to sing with him I thought they sounded terrible. There were quite a few others but I can't remember them off the top of my head. I thought one of the best performances was Carrie Underwood and Brad Paisley's tribute to Eddie Arnold.

[justclay12]

There are so many good posts so I'll just agree with 95% of them. Ansa, I loved your post and it really helped clarify things for me since I don't know a lot about the music industry, nor do I care to, but it all made sense.

I do read some other boards, and I see that each board usually has some primarily negative posters, but for the most part, I think they are a minority who gets everybody else stirred up, either because they are trying to bring reason or because they are easily led, so will agree with anyone who has a strong opinion. I don't worry about it too much because I do believe it happens everywhere, not just on Clay boards. That's why I can only stand to read the first page of comments on any article posted on the internet because a lot of whackos come out to play. That's not to say that those posters don't drive me crazy sometimes, because they do, but trying to argue with them is a losing battle which I don't need.

Canfly,nice to see you here. I enjoy reading your posts on the Waldo board, even though you are a Negative Nellie, or whatever NN stands for. You're funny and honest so I'm glad you are posting here to add to the other hilarious posters.

And lastly, for now, I am manless right now and would love to have one, but if it's another redneck WV that are the only ones that seem to be interested in me, then I'll pass. Had one, don't want another. So if anyone here knows someone intelligent and funny (on the East Coast, since I'm not into the bi-coastal thing), let me know, cuz there are just some things that are not as much fun doing by myself.

[playbiller]

fandom

This is a weird fandom. I have people telling me that they don't like it here (FCA) because we think we are superior to other boards. I feel that the fandom gettoizes itself where people with like thoughts post together. To me this is not a superior place, but a place where fans do not think they can run Clay's career better than the professionals Clay works with. I cross many boards. I post at one board where people don't really want to control Clay's career, and don't really care a lot about anything but EEEEEing. It does get monotonous, but it is sometimes a little escape. I have been told more than once that RCA is not a topic for discussion because they just don't care. (yeah, I am multiboardal, what of it?). I post on another just because I am the counter point to others thoughts and beliefs - yes, most people don't know it exists, so don't bother guessing. And I post on yet another board to keep the Clay thread alive, most people have disappeared and I like to remind them he is around. And then I post on big boards as well. Some not as much as others. Being away for 5 days has me just really posting on small threads, this is the only board where I have caught up to the main thread, and it seems like a good thing.

One of the things that are interesting about other fan groups is they tend to focus around one board. Here it is more split. Sometimes I get concerned we are gettoizing the opinions. Now, I do know that some posters get more respect than others and lots of people don't feel they have anything to say (lurkers, we love you). That is sad. I believe the consencous. the general thoughts of the fandom are not being evenly represented. As I said it before, a lot of people fled the fandom in 2006 and anyone that posts should see that easliy, the boards slowed to a crawl, new people were not welcomed easily.

Which brings me back to blame. For some reason, I was taught not to worry about what others do, I cannot control others, I can only control my self. What could I have done better? Or maybe I learned that in AlAnon? Anyway, if I were to control things, I would have the discussions be about what fans can do in a fan way, not what team Clay does. the fandom is disjointed and can't do anything coordinated. I was posting everywhere when the album became available at Amazon about not everyone ordering on the first day. Fat chance I had at getting people to wait until there were samples of the music out there so to snag some NJU into buying it. But then people were arguing that I should have ordered it right away to get it to number immeadiately, so I am out of step. I would love fans to support the current single, but that seems to fall on deaf ears as well in some quarters. Good think I am not the boss of anyone anymore, no one listens to me, heh. Still have pepsi points to send a free download of OMWH in the US. Any takers?

[keepingfaith]

JMO, but relating Sacrificial Love to the fans sounds like the mother of all stretches to me. I can see it for the the line, "How much will they take before I'm empty" in The Real Me, but honestly unless some fans are lying in bed beside him, I don't think SL has anything to do with fans. That hits me as bizarre, actually.

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Another bizarre thing is Dunkin' Donuts pulling the Rachael Ray commercial because Michelle Malkin of Fox News said Rachael was wearing a terrorist scarf around her neck in the commercial.

So it was with some dismay that I learned last week that Dunkin' Donuts spokeswoman Rachael Ray, the ubiquitous TV hostess, posed for one of the company's ads in what appeared to be a black-and-white keffiyeh.

The keffiyeh, for the clueless, is the traditional scarf of Arab men that has come to symbolize murderous Palestinian jihad. Popularized by Yasser Arafat and a regular adornment of Muslim terrorists appearing in beheading and hostage-taking videos, the apparel has been mainstreamed by both ignorant (and not so ignorant) fashion designers, celebrities and left-wing icons.

That it totally freaking ignorant. I don't know what's worse, this kind of nutty, divisive opinion, or this kind of nutty, divisive opinion being taken seriously enough for Dunkin' Donuts to pull the commercial. What? Were Rachael and her stylist pulling a sneaky one by going after the Palestinian terrorist donut eaters market?

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I did go around and read at three other boards for just a bit at each and I scratch my head at the perceived victimization of Clay by quite a few fans. It was funny to read someone say that Clay had to sell TITN/BOTW by hard copy in 2003 but he would have done so much better if downloads had been available then. Gee, I don't have a hard copy of TITN/BOTW, but I do have it -- because I downloaded it. In 2003.

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I'm still feeling rotten, and have a headache to boot, hence my attitude today. Eh? Ever now and then isn't everybody entitled to a crappy attitude? If not, then I've fucked up again.

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Regarding Faye and Clay -- I don't think there's any mystery here. I read the book -- and I lived the life myself. Clay adores his mother. He also thought she could have made better choices with the men in her life. My children adore me, and they have the same opinion about the men in my life, too. I spent a good 14 years in the middle between a step-father/step-child, and was never able to fix it, or please anybody. Being in the middle and trying to keep peace can be hell on earth. And, when he died, my daughter was distraught. I know this situation.

[luckiest1]

I feel taht the fandom gettoizes itself where people with like thoughts post together.

ghet·to·ize

tr.v. ghet·to·ized, ghet·to·iz·ing, ghet·to·iz·es

To set apart in or as if in a ghetto; isolate.

Hee, I had to look that up, I had no idea what that word meant at first! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[KAndre]

Oh, kf, I think the SL stuff was just serendipitous - totally taken out of context but that phase just resonated for that situation.

The Rachel Ray thing is so beyond stupid I can't even pretend to comment on it.

I live for occasionally crappy attitudes!

[muskifest]

BWAH! about the perception among some that this board thinks it's 'better than everybody else'! BWAH! I think it's more that some are uncomfortable with being held accountable for their posts. Don't post and then get all huffy about your post being discussed or challenged/questioned.

If a board tends to swing one way or another on a particular issue, is it really because all the people on the board advocate that view or 'feeling'? Or is it more of a tendency of a board to be swayed by a few vocal and ever-present members? Just as in real life, it's often the 'dominant few' that come to be the torchbearers for a 'cause'. Indifference, ambivalence, inability to articulate opinions, fear of being attacked--whatever the reason--can all make the majority stay silent. Silence can then be 'heard' as agreement or compliance.

Way of the world.

I keep coming back to personal accountability. Own it...then accept that others might have baggage surrounding it.

And herein ends Dr. Muski's lesson for the day. She's now going off to practice doing it herself.