#37: Whenever he's ready, I'm ready for whatever he's ready for.

[Scarlett]

I guess I'm somewhat mystified as to why people (not from here) think the IIU make him "not the person they thought they knew". When I first heard the news, over the phone from PerusingOne, it immediately struck me as 'that's so Clay' (or my idea of Clay) -- something that was completely unexpected yet so kind and sweet. Maybe that's why it was easy for me to get comfortable with the IIT though I wouldn't be all that disappointed IIU. To me it still boils down to what we each think he is / what we think he would do if someone he cared about wanted to have a baby.

ETA: Thanks bunches, kimiye!!!

[keepingfaith]

I think the only time I heard him quoted about being married was when he said that he never dreamed he'd have a music career and that he envisioned his life as a teacher and coming home to his wife and kids and talking about his day in the classroom - or something close to that. However, that's not how things turned out for him. He's a big star and busy about building a career he didn't expect five years ago. Things change.

As far as the religious boards and their thoughts on babies out of wedlock? I'm close to a situation in which a couple had a baby and never married, or even ever lived together, and both are great parents. And the kid, a teenager now, is incredibly smart, funny, talented, just plain wonderful. So he should never have been born in their estimation? Or his parents should be denounced for the sin of bringing him into this world? That's where I break with fundamentalists. There's great guidance to be found in the Bible, but a lot of seriously outdated stuff too, and most of it is in the "don't do this or be damned" category. The stuff it says to do in the New Testament ... like love your neighbor as yourself, turn the other cheek, and forgive seventy times seven, somehow breaking those rules won't get people thrown out of church. But there are churches that will throw you out quicker than Ken Lay's autopsy for breaking some of the very selectively observed rules and admonitions of the Old Testament. One is about keeping order; the other is offering freedom and joy. I guess it depends on what you need.

By the way, I love babies. They are all precious angels, and I dig 'em, big time.

[Ansamcw]

I guess I'm somewhat mystified as to why people (not from here) think the IIU make him "not the person they thought they knew". When I first heard the news, over the phone from PerusingOne, it immediately struck me as 'that's so Clay' (or my idea of Clay) -- something that was completely unexpected yet so kind and sweet. Maybe that's why it was easy for me to get comfortable with the IIT though I wouldn't be all that disappointed IIU. To me it still boils down to what we each think he is / what we think he would do if someone he cared about wanted to have a baby.

ETA: Thanks bunches, kimiye!!!

Me too!!! and IIT it actually explains a lot of the timing situation to me. It was unexpected but I totally could see the Clay in my mind doing this. Yup I am not just comfortable with the situation but a bit excited for the baby IIT. But it is totally cool too IIU.

eta: big WORD to KF

[justclay12]

I'm watching Nashville Star too and it actually makes me appreciate the whole AI set-up much more. Not only because I don't think many of the singers on that show can actually sing anything that I'd want to listen to, but the whole set-up and lack of personality by Billy Ray is really uninspiring. Also makes me appreciate Ryan Seacrest, at least as a host on AI, not a fan of anything else he does. There are 2 people on that show that I do enjoy though, one is the woman with the 5 kids and the dark haired girl.

And Ansa, I agree with you about being in the middle about knowing/not knowing Clay because he can and does suprise me all the time, which I find exciting, but I feel that I know who he is at his center, if that makes any sense at all. He is who he is and doesn't try to be anything else but he also seems to be someone who is willing to take risks to take him out of his comfort zone, which is why we are continually suprised by him. What a ride he has taken us on. And claytonic, I'm kind of sensitive to the criticisms or judgements about the fatherhood deal too so I know where you are coming from.

And I'm still a Hotel California hater so if I ever get a chance to come to your guy's house or share beds with any of you, please wear headphones when that song comes on. Still creeps me out.

[Iseeme]

Ahhh - my sweet babbooo speaks! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Remember back to Boobgate! The people that were just HORRIFIED that Clay might put his hands on some ladies boobs! Good Lord - did anyone notice that smirky little smile on his face? I thought it was downright hysterical. I remember one person on the Clayboard that brought it up in almost every post for the next 3 months. You would have thought he had killed someone! To some he was a fallen angel. And all the analysis of whether those were his hands or whether the photo was photoshopped reached, IMO, a ridiculous level. The diagrams and the blowups etc. Well - I would bet those same people, if they're still around, are going through the horrification (is that a word) process again over IIT. I think Clay's faith is probably the most important facet of his life - hands down. YES, that is my opinion. But I believe it with all my heart. And some people have taken that to mean he's a cloistered monk - even in the face of the evidence of his snarkiness and sometimes ribald sense of humor. They want to think of him as some virginal young man, dedicated to God, who walks a narrow path of goodness. And I think some of the judgement comes from that base. Hate to use the word pedestal, but some of these folk not only have him on a pedestal but beyond that.

Again, this is just my sense of why someone might think he wasn't who they thought he was. Operative words in that sentence are WHO THEY THOUGHT HE WAS based on their intepretation of things he's said.

side note: funny thing, the person who was most horrified by Clay's hands on whatsherfaces boobs also enjoyed some good Clay smut. Talk about hypocritical!!!!

p.s. KF - have been trying to find the clip, but I do believe he said he wanted to be married and have kids "some day" on the Ryan Seacrest show.....the same day he said "twins" And I could swear he said it other times but can't remember where.

[keepingfaith]

So he can't have a baby with Jaymes, and still get married and have more children later? I don't see it as either/or.

[treenuts]

Actually he said it again in an interview with some Christian show I believe in Canada. When asked what kind of girl/woman he was looking for (may not be exact wording) he went on to describe someone he would like to marry one day. I think. LOL

Anyway, he did go into some detail about that. I do recall he said he didn;t think it would be a fan. Not life long companionship material, or something like that. Damn!

But as someone here mentioned....things change and so do people. Sometimes without any advanced notice or blog! SHOCK!

[Iseeme]

I have no idea. Just telling you what I've read and heard.

If you look at David Crosby and Melissa Etheridge and her partner.......well, it seems to be working quite well with them. They each have their own families. But then - they had those very same families before they decided to conceive. Not sure that Clay and Jaymes are in that same situation but......IIT hopefully they've discussed all those situations.

Time to try to get some sleep. Hope I don't hear any loud crashes in the night. It's garbage pick up in the morning and all our cans are on the street! It's really going to be a mess if the bear decides to come visit. Hope I'm not boring anyone with all this bear talk, but it's a new thing for me! I used to just worry about the dog next door......this is a whole new situation!!!

[keepingfaith]

I just recently watched that whole interview with The Standard. When asked what kind of woman he'd be "interested in" he stressed that she would have to be independent, and be passionate about something, not necessarily sharing his passions. I've just not heard any "picket fence" talk from this man.

[Desertrose]

Am I the only one who does not know who Good Charlotte is? Never heard of them. I love the Eagles though.

[Scarlett]

Ahhh - my sweet babbooo speaks! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Remember back to Boobgate! The people that were just HORRIFIED that Clay might put his hands on some ladies boobs! Good Lord - did anyone notice that smirky little smile on his face? I thought it was downright hysterical. I remember one person on the Clayboard that brought it up in almost every post for the next 3 months. You would have thought he had killed someone! To some he was a fallen angel. <snip>

p.s. KF - have been trying to find the clip, but I do believe he said he wanted to be married and have kids "some day" on the Ryan Seacrest show.....the same day he said "twins" And I could swear he said it other times but can't remember where.

Hey there, sweet babbooo (almost typed baboob there, hee!) :F_05BL17blowkiss:

I think he talked about having a family on OARS when he and Kelly launched the IT (great pants that day!), the same day as boobgate. Let me go watch (those pants) again just to be sure... Maybe holding "them" made him think of babies!

Boobgate -- that's what struck me as not so Clay. Not the part where he was holding "them" because that's so Clay to me too, but the part where he let the picture get taken and didn't retain control over the memory card.

Please don't hurt the bear...

[Ansamcw]

So he can't have a baby with Jaymes, and still get married and have more children later? I don't see it as either/or.

yup this is one of the reasons why i don;t get why people are so sad that clay didn't have a fairytale wedding. Its not like that is not possible anymore.

scarlett..I am not surprised that boobgate happened. It was still relatively early in his career when this happened so its possible he didn't anticipate what happened after. I think this may be one of those incidents that taught him to be a bit more guarded about his privacy.

[jmh123]

Hey, claytonic, no problem. I should've been more clear. I absolutely see no problem with a baby "out of wedlock," in Clay's (IIT) case or Madden/Richie's.

UNICEF are not dummies about who they pick. IMO, it's not a thing that most people could do well. It was interesting listening to Madden talk about why he was picked--that was one of my favorite parts of the special. I loved that they picked someone who is a bit out of the mainstream, and young.

Is the following the beginning of the blowtorched puppy thing? (more Shack TwoP recap--WARNING--this is snark and if you are not used to TwoP style, you should probably skip)

When we return, Ryan stands in the audience in front of a wall of signs supporting Clay Aiken. So he could be anywhere in the audience. Incidentally, Clay is up next with his performance of "Everlasting Love." Clay marches out on the stage in a shiny black shirt with gold polka-dots and brown pants. And his version of "Everlasting Love" is the reunion song for a musical romantic comedy. It's the second-to-last song in the show, when the lovers realize that despite all the fights, and the miscommunications, and the various contrived conflicts they've had throughout the play, they belong together after all. And then they sing the reunion song. And then everybody comes out in the end for the finale. The singing's good, as usual. He doesn't have much stage presence, because he clearly can't dance or is afraid to dance, so he just stands there for most of the song. He has a very long held note at the end, which I hated the first time I listened to it, but now it sounds pretty good.

Judges. Randy says, "That's how you do it, dawg!" He thought Clay was brilliant. Paula says that no matter what the genre, Clay's voice is his voice, and she thought it was wonderful. Funny how she didn't feel that way about Kimberly's voice being her voice no matter what the genre. Poor Kimberly. If only she had a Y-chromosome. Paula would be lapping it up. Verdine says that he saw Clay backstage earlier in the day and didn't think he looked like he could sing the way he sings. Or something like that. Anyway, Verdine thinks Clay can sing. Simon jokes that this is going to end up being the last episode of American Idol because he's about to say something bad. He says that in the context of this genre, he thought Clay was terrible. See, he doesn't really want them to "make it their own," unless by doing so, they end up sounding like ninety percent of the bland pop acts out there. Everybody boos, of course. Clay heads over to Ryan, who points out that the judges are really polarized in their disagreement over Clay. The judges argue some more. It doesn't matter. At this point in the competition, Clay would have to blowtorch a litter of puppies on stage to land in the bottom three. Ryan gives the blah blah blah text-message-cakes.

He really didn't get it. Everlasting Love was the sex, dude.

[clayzedover]

I don't know nothing about birthin' no babies (TM Butterfly McQueen). However, I am so happy for Clay my heart can't stand it. This is something he has wanted for so long. I don't know how to empathize with those having difficulty with Clay's life choices. They are HIS, and they are based on his life and his sense of ethics. He has a conscience and he uses it. He's never blindly followed anything from what I can tell... and if some believe one choice makes him "different" than the man they have seen over the last five years, I just don't know how to identify with that kind of thinking. I've even seen posts by some who would accept things if he is in a "romantic relationship" with Jaymes, or even if one form of insemination were used over another. WTF? I just don't get it.

While I don't know, nor do I need to know, the circumstances surrounding his choices, I know that this will be a child who is loved. I know he will be the antithesis of his own father who was married to his mother but did nothing more than contribute his sperm to bring Clay into the world. Once here, he ignored and degraded that adorable child and treated his mother more like a punching bag than a fairytale princess of the happily ever after variety.

I see a different kind of "family" here but one with love on both sides for this child. I see two people with apparently shared interests and values who apparently trust and respect each other a great deal. If romantic love does not enter into the picture, who is to say that a child from this kind of family would be less loved or nurtured than one from a marriage? Marriages are not always happily ever after events. Clay knows that from his own family. He even listed all the serial marriages in his family in his book, and said he thought he would be married more than once. Friendship, on he other hand, might seem more stable and less complex to him. I see him as a protector of children and believe his choice regarding this child was not a selfish one. Assuming Jaymes wanted to have a child, is it better to have Clay, who you know and trust and who would love the child -- or some anonymous donor? I don't know if that is the situation he faced, but it is a scenario that offers an explanation as to the "why," and fits with what I "know" of him.

Have no idea what is going on in Clay's professional life right now, but I do believe some changes will be made. His biography now highlights television and comedy to a great extent and I have hopes there is a reason for that. The guy earned a break. He's been going nonstop since last July. He's doing what he told us he would: taking the summer OFF. Meantime, I'll wait and do what I can to support him. He worked his buns off and gave us so much this past year. Am willing to let him have the rest of the year to himself if that's what he needs.

[Ansamcw]

WORD clayzedover...I hope you would post more often...

[Lotus]

Hey, claytonic, no problem. I should've been more clear. I absolutely see no problem with a baby "out of wedlock," in Clay's (IIT) case or Madden/Richie's.

UNICEF are not dummies about who they pick. IMO, it's not a thing that most people could do well. It was interesting listening to Madden talk about why he was picked--that was one of my favorite parts of the special. I loved that they picked someone who is a bit out of the mainstream, and young.

Is the following the beginning of the blowtorched puppy thing? (more Shack TwoP recap--WARNING--this is snark and if you are not used to TwoP style, you should probably skip)

Judges. Randy says, "That's how you do it, dawg!" He thought Clay was brilliant. Paula says that no matter what the genre, Clay's voice is his voice, and she thought it was wonderful. Funny how she didn't feel that way about Kimberly's voice being her voice no matter what the genre. Poor Kimberly. If only she had a Y-chromosome. Paula would be lapping it up. Verdine says that he saw Clay backstage earlier in the day and didn't think he looked like he could sing the way he sings. Or something like that. Anyway, Verdine thinks Clay can sing. Simon jokes that this is going to end up being the last episode of American Idol because he's about to say something bad. He says that in the context of this genre, he thought Clay was terrible. See, he doesn't really want them to "make it their own," unless by doing so, they end up sounding like ninety percent of the bland pop acts out there. Everybody boos, of course. Clay heads over to Ryan, who points out that the judges are really polarized in their disagreement over Clay. The judges argue some more. It doesn't matter. At this point in the competition, Clay would have to blowtorch a litter of puppies on stage to land in the bottom three. Ryan gives the blah blah blah text-message-cakes.

He really didn't get it. Everlasting Love was the sex, dude.

Thanks for this...I was wondering where on earth that image came from. (bolding by me)

[Couch Tomato]

I hated Shack and refused to read his stupid recaps. How's that for mature. I remember when the PROC was all buying him gifts and buying ads cuz we were eating up the bandwidth..that was one dime I kept in my pocket. heh. Do have to laugh at the blowtorched puppies becaue it's so true. OH my hate was because of the way he ran the boards. I have a love hate relationship with TWoP..always have.

Clayzedover..LOVED your post and I agree totally.

[jmh123]

I wasn't around then couchie--I'd actually never read these recaps before tonight, although I've heard about this and that. I never read the board then, and those posts are long gone now. I thought forbidding people from saying Clay's name was extreme. :lmaosmiley-1: Even today, I think they are harder on the Clay fans than anyone else, but now I see that back then their founders and mods all hated him. Explains a few things. Of course TwoP snarks on everyone--they always tried to make that point. So, lots of conflict, I'm sure.

Clayzedover, And Scarlett, and a bunch of other folks.

[Couch Tomato]

I wasn't around then couchie--I'd actually never read these recaps before tonight, although I've heard about this and that. I never read the board then, and those posts are long gone now. I thought forbidding people from saying Clay's name was extreme. :lmaosmiley-1: Even today, I think they are harder on the Clay fans than anyone else, but now I see that back then their founders and mods all hated him. Explains a few things. Of course TwoP snarks on everyone--they always tried to make that point. So, lots of conflict, I'm sure.

Clayzedover, And Scarlett, and a bunch of other folks.

Oh I loved the "you can't say Clay's name" period. If you did you would be banned. But like i said one of the reasons I like the place is because of all the witty posters and finding ways to talk about Clay without saying his name was damn genius. I think he became known as Voldemort..and I'm quite sure that's somebody from one of those fantasy/sci fi books that I've never read. Even still..I laughed lots.

[claytonic]

clayzedover - absolutely agree... phew, I am glad I don't have to feel guilty that I don't have any angst moments about Clay stepping outside mainstream boundaries for the choices he has made for his own life, i.e. that he’s not the “perfect” little guy who followed all the rules so he could please everyone and therefore sell more albums. Actually, I admire the man even more for not fitting into those Ticky Tacky Boxes.

(Anyone remember Little Boxes by Pete Seeger? >>

)

Re the Eagles/Desperado ... I think I have finally recovered from Camile Valasco absolutely murdering this classic in American Idol #3.

[Gibby]

I'll join ya'll in the no-angsting corner!! Like I said yesterday, the Serenity Prayer works for me. If I can't change it, I ain't gonna worry about it.

As far as the religious boards and their thoughts on babies out of wedlock? I'm close to a situation in which a couple had a baby and never married, or even ever lived together, and both are great parents. And the kid, a teenager now, is incredibly smart, funny, talented, just plain wonderful. So he should never have been born in their estimation? Or his parents should be denounced for the sin of bringing him into this world? That's where I break with fundamentalists. There's great guidance to be found in the Bible, but a lot of seriously outdated stuff too, and most of it is in the "don't do this or be damned" category. The stuff it says to do in the New Testament ... like love your neighbor as yourself, turn the other cheek, and forgive seventy times seven, somehow breaking those rules won't get people thrown out of church. But there are churches that will throw you out quicker than Ken Lay's autopsy for breaking some of the very selectively observed rules and admonitions of the Old Testament. One is about keeping order; the other is offering freedom and joy. I guess it depends on what you need.

kf, I love this. The interesting thing to me is that the New Testament makes it clear that Jesus came to make a new law - that of love and forgiveness. Therefore, IMHO, those who sit in judgement of others and throw them out of a church for breaking a law are actually breaking the new law. Rather hypocritical, is it not? I thought that it was quite interesting when Obama recently commented that following Jesus' teachings would be an extremely radical and difficult thing to do.

And now, I've broken the social convention about not talking about religion and politics in one fell swoop! Heeeee - I hope I can be forgiven.

I think we need a couple of gifs on this page! I'll post a couple from the AI tour, since we're talking about the early days of the fandom.

And here are a couple of morphs, each starting with AI:

Cindilu, did you make all of these morphs? They're great!

[claytonic]

I was sent this interesting poem via email. Although it does not have anything to do with my spiritual beliefs (especially since I am not sure what they are!!), I feel it's still a good one to ponder when we may feel someone else is not the person we thought they were....

FOOD FOR THOUGHT?

I was shocked, confused, bewildered

As I entered Heaven's door,

Not by the beauty of it all,

Nor the lights or its decor.

But it was the folks in Heaven

Who made me sputter and gasp--

The thieves, the liars, the sinners,

The alcoholics and the trash.

There stood the kid from seventh grade

Who swiped my lunch money twice.

Next to him was my old neighbor

Who never said anything nice.

Herb, who I always thought

Was rotting away in hell,

Was sitting pretty on cloud nine,

Looking incredibly well.

I nudged Jesus, 'What's the deal?

I would love to hear Your take.

How'd all these sinners get up here?

God must've made a mistake.

'And why's everyone so quiet,

So somber - give me a clue.'

'Hush, child,' He said, 'they're all in shock.

No one thought they'd be seeing you.'

JUDGE NOT

[luckiest1]

I think he became known as Voldemort..and I'm quite sure that's somebody from one of those fantasy/sci fi books that I've never read. Even still..I laughed lots.

BWAH HA HA! OMG, couchie, where ya been? Under a rock?

Not much to add. WORD to lots of posts. claytonic, cute poem. Gotta go to work again. Ugh. This time I'll remember the iPod and the headphones. Yesterday I was not a happy camper without them!

[laljeterfan]

Boobgate -- that's what struck me as not so Clay. Not the part where he was holding "them" because that's so Clay to me too, but the part where he let the picture get taken and didn't retain control over the memory card.

I am probably the only person on the board who wasn't (and still isn't) emamored of the boob picture. It did seem "not Clay-like" to me- maybe because it was around the time of the Janet Jackson "reveal" at the Super Bowl, and I remember he was interviewed about the subject, and said that he would never be in a situation like that. It kind of took me aback to see the picture, after listening to his words on the subject.

scarlett..I am not surprised that boobgate happened. It was still relatively early in his career when this happened so its possible he didn't anticipate what happened after. I think this may be one of those incidents that taught him to be a bit more guarded about his privacy.

I agree, and I've always wondered if the fact that this picture "got out", no matter how it happened, was the incident that somehow led to the apparent rift between Clay and Seacrest? I remember Clay saying in an interview once that if he has a problem with someone, he'll tell them about it and let them know how he feels, and then for him, it's over- he's then able to let it go. (Anyone else remember this, or am I crazy?) I wonder if he confronted Seacrest, expressed his displeasure, and then let it go- but Seacrest wasn't able to do the same, and has seemed to hold a grudge ever since.

As to the current "scandal", I'm really not prepared to analyze it yet, because for me, the only verifiable part at this point is that Jaymes is pregnant. I'm not giving any of the "dirt" sources any kind of legitimacy on this issue yet- and truthfully, I really don't expect to hear anything about it from Clay- ever!

[aikim]

Good Morning,

Raining here, but we need it...been dry as a bone lately.

Clayzedover Word to your whole post!

Claytonic I love the poem!

Boobgate...I still can't believe how nuts everyone became over that; overreaction to the nth degree.

Everyone have a great day!

Kim