#15 the Earl of Aikenberry: a man of character and Naughty by Nature

[Couch Tomato]

Have you ever done something and then a split second later realized you shouldn't have done it but it's too late.

I hope you're not referring to virginity or marriage.

Some things just aren't easily undone.

bwah, one never happened and the other is too far back to remember.

I hit delete on my draft mailbox cuz really there was nothing in there of worth right? Only my LA/Indio recap that was 98% complete. Oh well, there goes that. LA and Indio was kickass and Clay was the cat's meow. There you go.

And now I suddenly have guest coming over. Darn. YAY.

YSRN - loved your post but you know you have a much better tolerance level for things than me I think a bit of self awareness would go a long way in this fandom for moi as well...heeee I know French.

[PuddinsJoy]

If I ran the fandom:

I would want the haters to stop loving Clay so much that they want to destroy him. Yes, I do believe the haters love Clay and I believe they don't want to and that is the rub. Love/hate relationships are always sad. Some people live their lives that way. I wish them lives and I wonder how their families put up with them - families, you ask? Yes some of these haters have young children. shudder

I would have some fans acknowledge that there is a reason that they are not making the big bucks in the music business and to realize that Clay is not going to hire them. I wish this so they could have some peace of mind and not have to worry how they can fix everything that the people getting paid screw up. I wish them more success in their fields of endeavor that needs their expertise. note this s not about speculation, but the people who know the TRUTH and how Clay is not being served by Team Clay.

For the fans who want to be the center of all attention all the time, I wish them a skill that brings them the fame they so desire so that they can do not feel the need to bask in the shadow of the Clay.

For the fans who want Clay to lead us on the righteous and moral path, I would have them actually hear what Clay says - he has already led us to the path, his message was live your own life and be tolerant of others.

Naw, no one is ever going to vote for me to run the fandom, it would probably be boring anyway.

I can't add anything more - just perfect Play!

and this too . . . thank you jamar1700!

So it is for me as a Clay fan...

No longer forward nor behind

I look in hope or fear;

But, grateful, take the good I find,

The best of now and here.

John Greenleaf Whittier, MY PSALM, 1859

I love this place :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Edited September 3, 2007 by PuddinsJoy

[canuck2010]

Great discussions here this morning. At the rate you guys are going, I'll only be able to post about once a month! When I have something to add. You guys have covered it ALL. Thanks! Hee.

I love Clay Aiken to bits. All that I can add regarding ATDW, or even future releases, is the advice he gave to some fans at a recent Meet and Greet. They asked how they could help him in the future, and he indicated the best thing fans could do for him was to :

"....buy it, even if it's CRAP."

Hey, I'm there with purse open and credit card in hand. If he's selling, I'm buying. His dealings with RCA can't be influenced by me, but if purchases can help him in HIS relationship with HIS label, that's what I will do.

I NEED to keep him singing and entertaining for as long as he wants to do that. He makes me smile from ear to ear...something that you can't put a price on in this crazy world. And the people he has brought together are quite an awesome bunch that would never have been part of my life otherwise. BAF is just icing on the cake.

Oh, and YES, I do believe something is UP with this guy. He's so happy that he glows. Whatever it is, I hope we learn something about it soon. His version of soon. When he's ready to tell us.

HAPPY LABOR DAY EVERYONE!!!!

You are "in my head" missy!!!

I understand where all of you are coming from and I find myself nodding in agreement and shaking my head in disagreement as I read along but clayzy, you've come closest to how I feel.

Clay Freakin Aiken is my "not-so secret" passion. My intense need to find out more about him, to be able to talk and laugh and swoon over him with like-minded people brought me to Message Boards. Never in my life would I have ever imagined logging onto and then, heaven forbid, posting on a MB. It had to be more powerful than anything that had entered my conciousness to bring me "here".

I find Clay infinitely intriguing and mad-talented and he fills my heart with gladness. I've now become addicted to the MB's though I also scroll past known "Clay fixers and downer/critical posts". Just a "waste of MAH Time".

I wouldn't celebrate Clay going CCM or making a CCM CD but I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Just easy that way. His voice reaches down into my soul or heart or just somewhere deep and I can't get enough of it. No one, ever, ever, ever has affected me in this way and I shudder at the thought that he will ever stop making CD's or touring. Life would be so dull.

The fans who I wish would go far, far away are those who have to post comments and email every single person who writes a slightly non-raving revue or article - I think it gives the writer a truly skewed view of his fans and it makes me very uncomfortable. I also think it majorly encourages other people to write crap about him just to get the hits and the backlash. Just.not.good. I also think fans who visit gnat websites contribute to making them into celebrities. So sad. I feel that the ones who constantly post criticisms usually do it to bait others since they usually do it and then sit back and watch the hysteria ensue. Pitiful.

I'm just having the best damn time with this fandom and can't believe it's been four years and to me, it's stronger than ever!!

I love that guy!

[Couch Tomato]

OH MY GOD - YSRN brought up Kirk Gibson - and reminded me of the single worst sports moment of my life? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? heh

I would like to think the RCA hate is hte same as my "hate" for KG or the Yankees but the emotion is so strong that it jumps off the page and slaps me in the face many times. I found the entire atmosphere toxic. IMO.

Company coming... I was doing so great at keeping the place clean but then my mom went and kept a 5 and 7 year old all week last week. Sigh. They get in places you forget exist.

The fans who I wish would go far, far away are those who have to post comments and email every single person who writes a slightly non-raving revue or article - I think it gives the writer a truly skewed view of his fans and it makes me very uncomfortable. I also think it majorly encourages other people to write crap about him just to get the hits and the backlash. Just.not.good. I also think fans who visit gnat websites contribute to making them into celebrities. So sad. I feel that the ones who constantly post criticisms usually do it to bait others since they usually do it and then sit back and watch the hysteria ensue. Pitiful.

I'm just having the best damn time with this fandom and can't believe it's been four years and to me, it's stronger than ever!!

ITA with this sentiment Canuck!

I had to go back and see if was your Moutaineers that kicked Michigan's butt yesterday but I see that you are WVU. Hope your team did well!

Yay for Team USA - Olympics bound.

No matter what the method, within reason, as long as you bring no physical harm to him, his family and friends, or to any other fan, if you support him, enjoy him and he makes you happy, then you are a fan. It should be as simple as that. No questions asked.

I like that.

I like the tolerant line that Play mentioned. I could use a helping of that sometimes.

[Claygasm]

Claygasm

I mean, why would anyone be a fan of someone who doesn't make them happy?

Aw, but you see--we are in complete agreement!!!!

Yup! Just have to remember that one person's happiness is another's annoyance.

As one who has in the past often been labeled a "bad" fan or told I have no right to be a fan of Clay's because of views I have expressed it just bothers me a lot when anyone tries to define who is worthy of being a Clay fan and who is not and who should be welcomed into the fandom and who should not.

For example, I know people who believe Clay is gay and is just publicly denying it. But they still love him and his music and seeing him live and eeeeeeeeeeeeee right along with the rest of us. But I am sure there are some in this fandom who would just as soon see them run out of town on a rail!

I was told very early on in this fandom I had no right being a Clay fan because I was not a Christian and did not see God or Jesus in every song lyric Clay sang!

To the best of my knowledge, there are no real fan police, no legal definition of what makes a Clay Aiken fan, no criteria you have to meet. And I certainly do not believe ANY fan has the right to tell another fan that they are not a good fan or that they aren't true Clay fans. No one has the right to publicly "out" people they don't consider true fans, even to the point of posting pictures, real names, addresses and who knows what else.

As has been said many, many times, this is a diverse fandom. And within this fandom are various degrees of devotion, from those who seem to have no life outside of their fandom, to those who support him but other than that don't spend each waking minute thinking of him, and everything in between.

No matter what the method, within reason, as long as you bring no physical harm to him, his family and friends, or to any other fan, if you support him, enjoy him and he makes you happy, then you are a fan. It should be as simple as that. No questions asked.

[bottlecap]

So I'm reading along here, in a post-cookout haze, and playbiller tells me Clay's going to slip me some tongue? Well, alrighty then! Good thing I just brushed my teeth!

Most of Clay's fan whom I know are actually NOT on the message boards, so we are a little microcosm here--not necessarily representative of the whole.

Yeap, I remind myself of that all the time. The number of Clay's fans that are on the boards with any frequency is probably a pretty small portion of his total fanbase. And the number of the board fans that post regularly are even a smaller portion of that number.

[woo lovereyes]

What I would like to see is some fans have some common sense when dealing with gnats, critics, each other, when posting things on public boards (i.e. the entire internet, password protected or not), when posting reviews.

I had to bold that and add big fat AMEN to that

[Guest Toots]

I have no idea what post you're referring to, Toots... I can't imagine I would EVER use the term "fuckem and forgetem". You must be confusing me with someone who has a smutty mind.

Guess where I am. Go ahead, guess!

Nope, not between Clay's thighs, although......

I don't know where you are Muski but I'm hoping you're in the middle of writing the sequel to Clyra and you're right between the Fuckem and Forgetum chapter. Please, Please!!!

[aikim]

Well let me add:

I don't think fans have to buy everything

I don't believe that fans have to like everything

I don't think fans have to agree on anything

It is in the realm of possibliblty that some day Clay cold lose me as a fan, but least likely because of a style of music or because of a slip of the tongue (for Bottlecap)

What I would like to see is some fans have some common sense when dealing with gnats, critics, each other, when posting things on public boards (i.e. the entire internet, password protected or not), when posting reviews.

OK, I am picky and pretty judgemental, at least in my mind, if not always publically. Believe it, you should see the thoughts I keep to myself!

You are me...I have been nodding my head along in agreement to all your posts and all the pearls of wisdom from the rest of the FCA crew...we have very smart people here!

Oh and a :F_05BL17blowkiss: to Canuck; so much word to your post!

Kim

[keepingfaith]

Just about everything about Clay Aiken puts a smile on my face. I like almost everything he does. But in the spirit of full disclosure, I don't like fart jokes. Didn't like them in the second grade and don't like them now. I happen to think that "fart" is the ugliest word in the English language. Clay could say "fuck" all day long and it wouldn't bother me a bit, but "fart" makes me cringe.

Okay, that's my one and only Clay criticism. Other than that, everything is just great.

Great posts here today, Couchie and lightmyfire, I totally agree with both of you and don't see it as mutually exclusive at all. And, lightmyfire, about your avie, please tell. JM from the early days?

Playbiller .... if only you were running the world, my dear!

[Carolina Clay]

Good Afternoon, FCA! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Greetings to all our new members! Hope everyone is enjoying the Labor Day Weekend!

Playbiller -- your "Prayer for the Stressed" is fantastic and has been emailed in many directions.

I'm reading about a day's worth of posts behind, and I really appreciate the discussions.

I've really enjoyed reading what everyone has to say. I have little to offer as I have no profound thoughts regarding Clay and am privy to nothing in Clay's life. However, I do want to say that when I read that people are refusing to buy ATDW or won't be a fan IF Clay....[fill in the blank], I say "Good riddance!" The world is chock full of Britney Spears and Justin Timberlakes. Move on. Leave me and my unconditional devotion alone.

Rock on, Wandacleo!

Idyjocelyn, one of my favorite versions of Clay's 2003 MDA Telethon performance is preserved in Aspiegirl's montage. After reading an entry by Nance, an OFC member who has had MD for 15 years, I added a link to her blog, as well as to Aspie's montage on YouTube.

This is the third day for my OFC/Carolina On My Mind potpourri entitled 'World Blog Week' Celebrated. You can link to Aspiegirl's montage with Cindilu2's graphic in the blog or here:

.

Here is Cindy's beautiful graphic used for the blog link:

One of the aspects of World Blog Day (Aug.31), which I totally missed and therefore extended at least through the weekend, was to share five favorite blogs with others. I appreciate the fact that Clay's Daily Double included the "Carolina" site in their listing.

Sunday I was pleasantly surprised with a visit from one of my former orchestra students who now works for Brentwood Benson Music Publishing Co. She's an excellent violist, vocalist, and (apparently) salesperson, who in her job rubs shoulders with many wrungs within the Nashville music industry. Interestingly, we know lots of the same people; and, hopefully, I will have more to report in the near future. The last time we talked, she called me out of the blue and said, "Guess who I'll be talking with tomorrow morning! Clay Aiken!!!"

LOL, all those blue links were missing one little "6." :eusa_whistle:

Sheesh, I've missed almost a page of posts just editing this one. Have a super Labor Day and a great week, all!

Caro

Edited September 3, 2007 by Carolina Clay

[PuddinsJoy]

So many excellent comments - where to start?

Couchie I understand your feelings about Clay needing his fans, but I do find I disagree a little about his needing ALL of his current fans, because I'm just not sure someone IS a fan if that person constantly criticizes and complains about Clay, his team, his choices, his CDs, his behavior, etc. It seems to me that person is a fan of some imaginary person whom he/she has created, not Clay.

. . . Let's face it--most people want to be a fan to celebrate. Not to boo or pick apart. And, while I appreciate their right to do that, I don't like to participate (or observe).

ITA wandacleo! but I stop short of giving myself the power to label any fan other than myself - each to their own - my personal filters are not the same as anyone else's. I feel really lucky to have this man in my life, and that is enough for me to stay put, irregardless of the way I deal with the individual good and/or bad stuff. What others do is up to them - I have enough to do worrying about myself

I've really enjoyed reading what everyone has to say. I have little to offer as I have no profound thoughts regarding Clay and am privy to nothing in Clay's life. However, I do want to say that when I read that people are refusing to buy ATDW or won't be a fan IF Clay....[fill in the blank], I say "Good riddance!" The world is chock full of Britney Spears and Justin Timberlakes. Move on.

Leave me and my unconditional devotion alone.

wandacleo- I certainly agree with your post. It might be helpful if the people that aren't really all that interested in Clay anymore could leave us to enjoy his gifts in peace. Clay is Clay. End of story.

See, I think some veiw "unconditional" as never criticize, never disagree with, never find fault with blah, blah, blah, Clay.

...But as long as he most of the times makes me happy and does thing I can in good conscience support, I am his fan. If he doesn't, I will no longer be his fan. I mean, why would anyone be a fan of someone who doesn't make them happy?

Clay has my unconditional support, but I don't take the word quite that literal Claygasm. To me, it doesn't mean never do this and never do that - it does mean that in the past four years he has earned my respect and support and I will probably always give Clay the benefit of the doubt. Doesn't mean that I've always agreed or liked everything he's done or said - although there isn't much on the "con" side of my Clay chart - it just doesn't happen often. It does mean I will support him any way I can. It's my way of saying thank you. I absolutely agree with you regarding fans who stay around if they're not happy - doesn't make much sense to me either.

There are a whole lot of different ways to be a fan. . . . I have no problem saying that action is quite sucky but I can't get into the minds of people, or decide who can say they are a fan, or tell them how to be a fan. I just have to find that place where being a fan of Clay is fun and not so worrisome. Real life is tough enough. . . I don't know. I'm feeling optimisitc. :21:

I love you Couchie - will you smack me down the next time I try to angst all over you? :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Have you ever done something and then a split second later realized you shouldn't have done it but it's too late.

I hope you're not referring to virginity or marriage.

Some things just aren't easily undone.

BWAH!

[muskifest]

You guys have GOT to stop posting interesting shit or I'll NEVER get MYwork done HERE AT MY FREAKING OFFICE ON LABOR DAY

I'm DETERMINED to be out of here by 1 pm, dammit.

Such a beautiful weekend weatherwise....sigh....

okay...gonna get off the board and back to my freakin' project task list and plan for all the pieces of the conference...dammit.

[playbiller]

The fans who I wish would go far, far away are those who have to post comments and email every single person who writes a slightly non-raving revue or article - I think it gives the writer a truly skewed view of his fans and it makes me very uncomfortable. I also think it majorly encourages other people to write crap about him just to get the hits and the backlash. Just.not.good. I also think fans who visit gnat websites contribute to making them into celebrities. So sad. I feel that the ones who constantly post criticisms usually do it to bait others since they usually do it and then sit back and watch the hysteria ensue. Pitiful.

A lot of the people who over react, I still consider fans, over invested fans, but loyal fans indeed. I don't want Clay to lose fans, except the hhaters, but I would like to see other things take a priority in their lives and not feel the Clay defending is there reason of being. (oooh, ouch -pot - kettle, I need to get to the beach and off the boards!)

As to baiting - no doubt, no doubt it goes on, but I think that is part of the team winning losing thing - there are different AI fans and there are factions on the Clay fans - some need to win. I used to fight with people, but saw the light - not good for me, not good for them. Now, I will occaisionally post on the lack of facts or an opinon, but then I leave and sometimes never go back to that thread (on the OFC)- so much better for the blood pressure. I can't say I am as understanding or forgiving as YSRN, I have some anger still in me over the unfairness of fans to each other or to team Clay, but I know I need to let it go. Clay will struggle along without my help, and I will feel much better. There are still things I will complain about, but then move on. Of course, when I get home, I need to get back to my PM to 6 people that made me sad/angry/sad Maybe in a year I won't be so angry/sad and can actually send it.

keepingfaith, well in my world there would be no Wal-Marts - keep that in mind.

Carolina Clay, paryer for stressed, not mine - author unknown was out in the free clip art section.

Edited September 3, 2007 by playbiller

[JennaZ]

As has been said many, many times, this is a diverse fandom. And within this fandom are various degrees of devotion, from those who seem to have no life outside of their fandom, to those who support him but other than that don't spend each waking minute thinking of him, and everything in between.

No matter what the method, within reason, as long as you bring no physical harm to him, his family and friends, or to any other fan, if you support him, enjoy him and he makes you happy, then you are a fan. It should be as simple as that. No questions asked.

I like these statements, Claygasm. It is fascinating, to me, how diverse this fandom can be. When you think about it, it's actually pretty amazing that one guy can appeal to so many different kinds of people.

There are things I would like to see more of in the fandom: perspective, respect for Clay and other fans, restraint in dealings with the press, media, or outside parties. However, I also have to realize that excess that sometimes drives me crazy is also a measure of the level of passion people have for him. It might be nice if his fandom was entirely comprised of sensible, practical, highly responsible individuals, but then, his concerts might not be quite so full. IMHO, for better or worse, the passion of the fandom (multiple concerts, multiple purchases, enthusiastic audiences as TV tapings) help drive his career.

I'm not condoning the worst behaviors -- stalking, attacking other fans, following Clay at the expense of personal relationships or responsibilities. However, I tend to think that as long as Clay continues to inspire strong feelings in his fans, we'll always have extreme behaviors in the fandom.

[playbiller]

JennaZ, don't forget people posting the same thing every other line - that is just rude (oops)

[KAndre]

Lord, y'all are so much nicer than me...

Fans? My only criteria that if you are gonna whine and be unremittingly critical/negative/harsh, hell, at least be entertaining while you do it! Be the Monty Python Spanish Inquisition, not hard core Torquemada types! Then I can deal.

[PuddinsJoy]

So I'm reading along here, in a post-cookout haze, and playbiller tells me Clay's going to slip me some tongue? Well, alrighty then! Good thing I just brushed my teeth!

Well shit Bottlecap! The little bit o'tongue just laid me out. Thank you for helping keep everything in perspective. Yeah, I'm really easy when it comes to the pretty.

Just about everything about Clay Aiken puts a smile on my face. I like almost everything he does. But in the spirit of full disclosure, I don't like fart jokes. Didn't like them in the second grade and don't like them now. I happen to think that "fart" is the ugliest word in the English language. Clay could say "fuck" all day long and it wouldn't bother me a bit, but "fart" makes me cringe.

BWAH keepingfaith! That is on the "Con" side of my Clay chart except when he grins and giggles afterwards - then he's just too fuckin' cute and all is forgiven. Why yes, I'm anal AND easy - so?

I also might add that if Clay chose to say "fuck" all day long, it wouldn't bother me a bit either - especially if he threw in an occasional "me". :eusa_whistle: Just sayin'.

[Ansamcw]

There are a whole lot of different ways to be a fan. I have to admit I have a low tolerance now for certain things like the angsting, the anger, etc. However, I don't want the people who engage in that to go away and leave me alone because Clay needs those fans too. They love Clay and it manifests itself in a way that is hard for me to understand sometimes (like explaining on places like Amazon or other websites that Clay was forced to do ATDW; he didn't want to but oh buy it anyway). I have no problem saying that action is quite sucky but I can't get into the minds of people, or decide who can say they are a fan, or tell them how to be a fan. I just have to find that place where being a fan of Clay is fun and not so worrisome. Real life is tough enough.. Fortunately I think there are enough things on the schedule to keep everyone from flaming out. And with the tour coming up, I pray the meet and greet format remains the same so that Clay will be able to assauge fears about his album. I just think that helps the entire fandom not be victimized by a bunch of random speculation. I don't know. I'm feeling optimisitc. :21:

hmmm why am I up... NO WORK TODAY. Woot.

ETA: yes I remember that. I was in a hotel room in Anaheim. Didn't get to see it until I got home the next day and watch the clack. Thank god for clack.

Up and until February of 2006, I would have agreed with you, Couchie. But...my sentiment in respect to Clay's fanbase has changed. I believe that sadly this fandom has factions that are invasive and dishonest. And I honestly find their actions define the love for themselves, not a love for Clay. And I don't believe that Clay needs those fans regardless if they purchase a ton of CDs or a ton of concert tickets.

I am not perfect, Clay's not perfect..but I am expressing my true feelings. And I sense that I am not alone..

I find this exchange very interesting...I agree with both sentiments actually...I do believe that everyone has the right to determine their fandom and yes there are factions that I WISH would go away or change. BUT I think there is still a very fine line between expressing our opinion about the action of others in the way that it affects us and the fandom in general...and actually policing the fandom and determining who is the bad fan and good fan. I personally don't want this board to be about that. I do believe each one of us responsible for our actions and the only one we can really change is ourself. I realized the best way for me to enjoy my fandom is not to let the actions of other fans affect me anymore. So if they want to continue angtsing and getting angry...they can do it without me.

BTW...I meant to give scarlett a big ol WORD to her big post yesterday about her optimism about Clay. I share your feelings.

Ok I finished this post 4 hours ago....but forgot to post...I will press post anyway before checking the board, sorry if the convo has moved on.

[keepingfaith]

keepingfaith, well in my world there would be no Wal-Marts - keep that in mind.

Not a dealbreaker, Play. I go in Wal-Mart about once every two weeks to buy LandOLakes Sugar Free Whipped Cream, because I'm diabetic and love to indulge myself with whipped cream on top of my coffee. If I could find another store that carries it, I'd never have to go into another Wal-Mart again.

Well, unless there's another AIW deal which forces me there. Whenever I am in a Wal-Mart I never fail to check their inventory, and it's normally in disarray. A couple of weeks ago they had no copies of anything Clay Aiken in the store closest to me. Yesterday, I went on a whipped cream run and they had two copies of ATDW, but probably had just relocated them from the mariachi section.

[Carolina Clay]

Carolina Clay, paryer for stressed, not mine - author unknown was out in the free clip art section.

Not a problem, Play -- you brought it to us!

My minister BIL was on the mailing list, and I just told him to close his eyes, though he'll probably get a kick out of it.

Caro

[YSRN]

OH MY GOD - YSRN brought up Kirk Gibson - and reminded me of the single worst sports moment of my life? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? heh

I would like to think the RCA hate is hte same as my "hate" for KG or the Yankees but the emotion is so strong that it jumps off the page and slaps me in the face many times. I found the entire atmosphere toxic. IMO.

Hee! God. Urgh! Single worst day in my baseball fandom for sure! I STILL cannot watch the entire video of that any more than I can watch the WS tapes when the Giants blew the WS to the Angels. The effing rally monkey, fergodsake!!

Fans? My only criteria that if you are gonna whine and be unremittingly critical/negative/harsh, hell, at least be entertaining while you do it! Be the Monty Python Spanish Inquisition, not hard core Torquemada types! Then I can deal.

That works for me too!! Bring on the funny and I'm pretty good to go.

Ok, it is TIME for me to figure out what the hell I'm doing for Xmas concert season... am I going to go spend two weeks in NY/NJ/PA? Lookit this map someone made of the shows from 12/2 thru 12/13. Why, oh why do I live in sunny CA?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/janscaped/map2.gif

eta... Shady, my sweet... I'm on top. WooT!

[Shadylil]

Couchie asked:

Have you ever done something and then a split second later realized you shouldn't have done it but it's too late.

Heh. Yeah.

Claygasm, I'd quote your entire post because it encapsulated everything that I feel.

What's the Tampa fax?

I don't see people saying they want this or that as demanding. I don't see the "experts" trying to steer Clay's career as much as they are just expressing themselves or yakking about this or that aspect of this ride from the place they know -- their experience.

YSRN is so smart, isn't she?

As far as Clay going in a CCM direction, that would be hard for me to follow but when I listen to his demos, the only song that I can't tolerate is 'In Not Of' because the lyrics celebrate the superiority of the 'chosen'. I love the music, hate the lyrics.

As far as the fans go, I'm pretty much a laid back kind of person, I'm not nasty to others, I like a healthy discussion, I like reading opposing points of view, I think diversity in the fandom is a good thing, but if anything turns me off following Clay on the 'net, it will be the posters who send the nasty PM's, the posters who, no matter what, are convinced that they are right and try to convince everyone else that they are right.

fuckem and foregetem

I can understand the fuckem part, but the forgetem part? ain't no way I'd ever forget doing that with Clay.

I was e-mailing Rockysmom yesterday. We're going to four Christmas concerts. We are also very lucky that we live in Clay Land. She told me to stop her from going to Poughkeepsie, so I e-mailed her, 'Don't go to Poughkeepsie'. Then I watched this special on PBS about Bethlehem Steel and it's demise. The very end focused on an old steel worker walking out on his deck and overlooking the silent steel mills. His parting words: "I never thought this would happen but it's gone and it's never coming back". So I told her to GO! Go see Clay as many times as she can because some day, God forbid, he may not be there anymore to see.

[wandacleo]

...I do believe that everyone has the right to determine their fandom and yes there are factions that I WISH would go away or change. BUT I think there is still a very fine line between expressing our opinion about the action of others in the way that it affects us and the fandom in general...and actually policing the fandom and determining who is the bad fan and good fan. I personally don't want this board to be about that. I do believe each one of us responsible for our actions and the only one we can really change is ourself. I realized the best way for me to enjoy my fandom is not to let the actions of other fans affect me anymore. So if they want to continue angtsing and getting angry...they can do it without me.

Word. I have no interest in policing other fans (OK, I lied--I would throw the boo[e]r's ass right off the boards), but I wouldn't feel BAD if some fans decided that they are so unhappy that they found someone more to their liking. Someone they could be happy with.

I think I define "unconditional" also a bit liberally. I love my daughter unconditionally. However, I think she wears her jeans too tight, she looks better with her hair to her shoulders than too short, she should vacuum the corners of the rooms better, and she should polish her son's shoes. Do I tell her these thing?. HELLL NO!!! I respect her as an adult. She could pick my life apart if she wanted to, but she doesn't. Loving unconditionally doesn't mean being blind, just being kind.

Edited September 3, 2007 by wandacleo

[FromClaygary]

Yer all so smart! Ah think I'll just keep on nodding and shaking my head and let y'all just GO!

What's the Tampa fax?

Yeah....that! Although, let me rephrase...if it has something to do with John Paulus or Perez Hilton....I don't care, and I don't want to know.

I have no interest in policing other fans (OK, I lied--I would throw the boo[e]r's ass right off the boards), but I wouldn't feel BAD if some fans decided that they are so unhappy that they found someone more to their liking. Someone they could be happy with.

I think I define "unconditional" also a bit liberally. I love my daughter unconditionally. However, I think she wears her jeans too tight, she looks better with her hair to her shoulders than too short, she should vacuum to corners of the rooms better, and she should polish her son's shoes. Do I tell her these thing?. HELLL NO!!! I respect her as an adult. She could pick my life apart if she wanted to, but she doesn't. Loving unconditionally doesn't mean being blind, just being kind.

...but especially the above!!

OK, actually, I changed my mind! The OTHER ones I would like to boot in the ass are the ones who take advantage of others' good nature...cadging free tickets, transportation, asking for people to bring and send them "stuff" which they never intend to pay for....it just makes me crazy, and I feel for the disrespect to those who fall for it. End rant.

Hope everyone's having a good Labour Day!

Edited September 3, 2007 by FromClaygary