#37: Whenever he's ready, I'm ready for whatever he's ready for.

[justclay12]

I do sometimes tell a friend or family member things that are sometimes negative, but unless they have really done something to tick me off, I usually still try to be tactful or at least try to make a joke of it because they do have feelings and I don't want to be someone who causes any pain. And that is how I feel about criticizing Clay because not only could it hurt him (not that I really think he reads all that much), but it could also cause pain to others who don't feel the same way.

But there are also many times when I just know to keep my mouth shut because it really is none of my business. Who my kids date or the choices they make is not something that I have any business butting into unless they ask my opinion, and that goes for Clay too. Since I don't see Clay asking any of us our opinions on who to date or what to do in his personal or even professional life, then I don't feel that we should be tearing him down for those choices. I don't have a problem with people saying they like or don't like his hair a certain way, or they do or don't like the way he sings a song, but to say he is making a mistake or should/should not do something is going into territory that we have no business being in. He is very smart, and he knows his life and career better than we do.

And Couchie, I'm with you. Each week SYTYCD is on, I keep hoping to hear Clay. It's so frustrating.

[playbiller]

Well, here is my position on new hair styles. Everytime I get my hair cut I HATE IT, can't look in a mirror for days. Then some times i grow to love it, other times I just grow it out. So when Clay changes his hair, I dont really feel my initial reaction should count - I am a bit flighty that way.

[Claygasm]

Personally - and perhaps as a surprise to no one here - I see nothing wrong with saying something that could be seen as negative when it comes to Clay. I have used this analogy before, but with those in your real life who are so special to you, who you love and cherish and admire - do you never tell them something that bothers you about them? Do you not ever criticize them when you feel they have done something wrong? Do you never express your disagreement with something they say, or a choice they make? I would find it hard to believe anyone here would honestly say they never do any of those things in their real life.

Well, if we can do that with those we love in our real life - where our opinions may actually matter - why can't we not do that in our very unreal Clay world? I have never understood that. I have never understood why some refuse to utter a crtical word about Clay - unless they truly have no critical thoughts about him.

For me, the difference is, I would not criticize those who are special to me......in public. I choose to give the same courtesy to Clay. Even though I know he's not spouse, family or friend.

Darn.

I should be in bed but I made the mistake of checking in here first and now I need to comment!

Rohdy, I understand what you're saying. But I think again there is a perception thing going on here. While technically this board would be considered "in public", I don't consider it that way. This board TO ME is just a group of people sitting around talking. TO ME its not in public, like at a mall or something. It is not even in public like newspaper or a widely read not Clay only website like People.com - although I see nothing wrong with sites like that expressing their opinions about Clay, be it positive or negative, as long as they are not slanderous. So I guess the difference here is how we perceive this site.

And couchie, just disagreeing with someone isn't the same as being jumped on. There is a difference - be it tone or whatever. I do not generally feel jumped on when people disagree with me. I am used to people disagreeing with me! I am often the holder of a minority opinion - be it with Clay or anything else! (And being in the minority doesn't make you wrong...) But there have been times where I have felt jumped on and it usually is caused by HOW the disagreements are expressed, not simply because they are expressed. Oh, and I have had the honor of knowing a few people who have told me in no uncertain terms that Clay is perfect and nothing he ever does is wrong! Lucky me!

And Play, no one should feel obligated to post what they don't feel like posting. I never meant to imply they should. I was just explaining how not choosing to express their thoughts might influence how they are perceived.

ETA: Justclay12, expressing a disagreement with someone's choice is NOT the same as "tearing them down"! And while he may know his life better than we do, it doesn't mean he isn't capable of making bad choices and it doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to freely express our opinions on those choices. I think most of us here realize we are talking to each other, not to Clay!

God I hope he has better things to do with his life than read this or any other board!

Now I really am going to bed!!!!

[playbiller]

Ah, but our choies or Clay are formed without any real knowledge of the opportunities and wor involved and what must be changed or how fan interference may have made some choices impossible.

An example of current opinions is the people who are complaining about lack of label support for this album and how it should be heard on the radio, but at the same time we hear that the song is being played in the middle of the night on radio stations. Playing songs in the middle of the night used to indicate that the label was paying for play and the radio station was reluctant to play it - hence would that nt indicate label payola support?

[Iseeme]

Well it's been a long day. I'm bummed that Little David got a song on SYTYCD. I think Sacrificial Love would be a great song for the "up and down waltz" or whatever it was. Will and Katie were awesome tonite......whew!

Hope ldyj will be back tomorrow to tell us how she is.

Safe travels to Scarlett and friends! The weather should be great in SF through the weekend. It's one of the most beautiful cities in the world! (okay, I"m prejudiced....)

Goodnight all....

And goodnight sweetsingerman - wherever you are!

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

[keepingfaith]

Are we still talking about "firsts" here? My first kiss was a summer vacation romance in Miami when I was 15. He was a crewcut blond from Indiana and we met at this resort on Biscayne Bay, and wrote each other for a few months after. It was sweet.

There's a possibility I could have been interested in pre-AI Clay in high school if I had gotten to know him. There was this nerdy guy in thick glasses named Larry who was a sophomore when I was a senior, and he followed me around everywhere in school. He had a heavy NYC Jewish accent that really stood out in Shitkikker, Texas, if you know what I mean, and I know that you do. Larry was in my speech/debate class, and Latin II, so I did see a lot of him. At first I thought he was a bit of a pest, so I was nice but not overly so. Then he started cracking me up seriously. He mimicked people and especially the pompous show-offs in class -- and oh we had some doozies. One of Larry's victims was a guy who ended up on local TV for a while, Roger Gray, although that was an alteration of his real name. I grew to adore Larry and the way he could make me laugh, but I would never have considered dating him, probably because I already had a boyfriend whose ring I wore around my neck on a chain, but also because Larry was a total doofus. Okay, I was shallow. The boyfriend whose ring I wore around my neck, I eventually married him and we had a daughter. He was not a nerd, but he was an asshole. That's when I learned to swim in the deep end. My second marriage was to a guy who was a sophomore at my high school when I was a senior, who I didn't know then but his older brother was in my Latin class and was somebody Larry mimicked, and the night I met my second husband he was with another guy from my high school speech class and homeroom, who was celebrating his first night back from Vietnam, and this stream of consciousness is going to force me to stop and think about a couple of things for a minute or an hour.

First votes: My first election was the mid-term in 1970 and I voted against George Bush for the Senate. He lost. My second election was to vote against Nixon. He won, but I don't think he enjoyed it much. Nixon was at a real disadvantage that second term because my grandmother passed away in 1972 and I know that when she got to the astral plane and beyond she used all her powers to see that he was exposed. One of my first memories of her is being at her house in Dallas when I was about four with her pointing to the man on TV and saying, "You see that man? Don't ever believe a word he says." She was on to him from the beginning, and I do believe that Hunter Thompson had a higher opinion of Nixon than my grandmother.

Clay's not perfect? Who knew?

[playbiller]

When I was young, I dated a guy that my friend teased me looked like a werewolf, he had terrible 5 o'clock shadow and he was not much taller than me, so he asked that i wear low heels and his feet were smaller than mine and he thought that it was worth teasing me about endlessly, but when I looked at him, I saw beautiful eyes and exquisite ears, and he was a wonderful hummer, probably the only person I could ever stand to hear hum. He was politically opposite of me and we would have great discussions that never ever ended in arguments and he was always a gentleman. He wasn't freckled and he wasn't a redhead so I don't really know what this has to do with - oh yeah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and some of us are not influenced by other people's opinion. Eventually religion did us in, he was very very religious and I couldn't do what he needed = get seriously involved in church, especially after a major argument with a priest where he told me women were not worthy enough to pray while turning me down for a part in a vigil.

[Couch Tomato]

I don't think Clay reads any message board all that much not even that swamp OFC. And although I don't think my posting style has changed in 5 years because of it..I do know that Clay fan boards are mined for tidbits to use against him. I'm glad we're off the beaten path. Of course I have seen examples of the most innocent things being twisted (it happened to Ansa) by Clay haters but they'd definitely have to turn into a pretzel to turn my words into something hurtful to Clay. Thank goodness. I also don't to want to have to look at the header to know I'm at a Clay FAN board... and not say TWoP for instance. It's the reason I don't go to OFC.

JustClay - I get where you're coming from!

Loved all the first kiss/love stories. I think the percentage of redheads is unusual..heee.

[ausdon]

couchie ... I read on the zap-to-it forums that TAR will run two cycles this year. Twice the fun!!! I'll try to find the date. Project Runway should be starting again soon.

eta...sounds like one in the fall and one in the spring but I haven't seen any dates yet.

Hey Jamar Project Runway Australia has just started here.I love it, they are so OTT and dramatic!

My husband has red hair (well, he did when I met him; it is pretty much all gray now) and freckles.

Kim

Kim ditto!

Chardonnay - that's a really sweet story! One more instance of Clay touching lives without realizing it. But come on - what's the rest of the story?

Well, omg, ok... My little girl getting married this weekend is the one in the upper right. My ex-DH is the one in the lower left. Don't pay too much attention to anybody else in the picture... ( Even though I think I'm gonna probably remove this picture in about 5 minutes.)

So yes, so you can only imagine how much of a struggle keeping my extreme fandom from them all these years has been...

Why am I'm thinking that Cotton will giggle at this... But shhh Cotton!

And so now I'm heading out on a jet plane. And seriously, I'm going to try in a very nonchalant way to spring the question... "SO... have you heard if Quiana has any plans to tour with Clay at any time in the near future?"

bwah

So you see? This is exactly why I have always completely tried to avoid putting myself in this situation...

And if you DID happen to see that picture, please do not share, ok? Thanks.

Well well Chardonay aren't you the tricky one! Of course I missed the picture and I have no idea what you're on about but my overactive imagination is working overtime!!!!!

First kiss? I was 16, he had dark hair and bucked teeth. I do remember thinking that this isn't all its cracked up to be!! Luckily I changed my mind later on........

Lucky thanks for your sons baseball story, loved it.

[Scarlett]

Just wanted to give everyone a present. Happy Friday Thursday y'all!!! [tm:couchie]

and merrieeee, the shirt was open all the way down -- NOT! ;p

Safe travels to Scarlett and friends! The weather should be great in SF through the weekend. It's one of the most beautiful cities in the world! (okay, I"m prejudiced....)

Goodnight all....

And goodnight sweetsingerman - wherever you are!

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

Thanks! Yes it is v. beautiful. Have a great weekend too and bee good while I'm away! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

For good measure...

[Couch Tomato]

Just wanted to give everyone a present. Happy Friday Thursday y'all!!! [tm:couchie]

first the wet spot and now this..

can I live down anything

[jamar1700]

You ask...

with those in your real life who are so special to you, who you love and cherish and admire - do you never tell them something that bothers you about them? Do you not ever criticize them when you feel they have done something wrong? Do you never express your disagreement with something they say, or a choice they make?

You bet I do not...

I decided a long time ago that it isn't important how I feel about what the other people in my life do. What's important is how they feel about it. Basically if they are happy with themselves, then I'm happy for them. As someone who was "never good enough somehow" [tm CHA] I never wanted to step into that role.

But beyond that I don't judge what they do and decide if it's right or wrong because I feel that is not my place. I can look at someone's behavior and decide it isn't something I would choose to do but I have no business making that decision for someone else. Especially those that I actually care about.

And yes even when my kids were younger I tried not to "over-correct" I chose the few battles that I thought were important and let them grow. Now they know they can come to me and we can actually talk about things without them feeling like they have somehow disappointed me or let me down.

One of the funniest moments ever (make that funny WTF? not funny ha-ha) ... my X BIL getting mad at my X because we were using Colgate toothpaste instead of Crest. He said in all seriousness... "but that's not how we were RAISED..."

Oy.

I just think we are dealing with some fundamental differences here. You (or someone else) may not believe that I live my life this way because it seems foreign to you. But it is who I am in Real Life. And I wouldn't be anyone else on a Clay board. Just as you wouldn't.

---

Everyone have a nice day... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[FearofH2O]

jamar, I absolutely agree with your post. I give my kids some criticism but then I point out some dastardly mistake that I have made so they know that I'm no better. Keeps things in perspective.

Scarlett, that's a great picture. Clay is such a real person.

Happy Birthday to Carolina Clay and playbiller

:hb2: :EmoticonRingAround: :00003653: :04:

playbiller get your hair cut today. It can't make you feel any worse than getting a year older. :big hug:

[luckiest1]

I don't think Clay reads any message board all that much not even that swamp OFC. And although I don't think my posting style has changed in 5 years because of it..I do know that Clay fan boards are mined for tidbits to use against him. I'm glad we're off the beaten path. Of course I have seen examples of the most innocent things being twisted (it happened to Ansa) by Clay haters but they'd definitely have to turn into a pretzel to turn my words into something hurtful to Clay. Thank goodness. I also don't to want to have to look at the header to know I'm at a Clay FAN board... and not say TWoP for instance. It's the reason I don't go to OFC.

:F_05BL17blowkiss: Perfectly stated.

I don't think Clay is perfect. I guess if I occasionally posted a negative about him, it would give me some sort of whacked out street board cred, and prove my point, because just saying it obviously isn't enough to make some posters believe it. But that's not me, on the boards or in real life, so don't hold your breath.

Or what jamar just said!

Will this work week ever end? Seriously? Tonight I have to start packing for Quebec. Last night I got my oil changed. Eeep I forgot to schedule a night for laundry. Oops.

ETA: Happy Birthday to Carolina Clay and playbiller, hostess extraordinaire! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[laljeterfan]

:bday2: To playbiller!

:00003653: To Carolina Clay!

Back to the daily grind.

[Ansamcw]

:7252:

Playbiller

:7254:

Carolina Clay

great discussion...wish I can join in...I will just WORD Jamar.

ITA...we do have fundamental differences here...and one of them is that I never forget that this is a public forum and that most of what I will post will be read by people that don;t really know me so I'm careful and have often chose to just keep quiet about things if I have nothing really good to say. If I do want to be bitchy and rant or just whine and complain I can do that on IM with couchie of ldyJ...hee

I learned a long time ago that the only thing to do with fundamental differences is to accept it...not fight it, and understand where the person is coming from and agree to disagree.

[aikim]

Good Morning Everyone,

Had an extra 2 cents lying around so thought I would throw it into the pile...for me it is simple...I was bullied in grade school and beyond much like Clay was; so I have a lot of empathy for him and because of that it has affected how I post about Clay. I can have a very thin-skin where criticism is involved; even though I know that not all criticism is bad and it shouldn't be taken personal.

But sometimes I do think..."wow, Clay had to take so much criticism in school about his hair, clothes, etc...why should he still have to put up with that from his fans"? Because you know, the boards can seem like high school a lot of the time with all the pettiness; snobbery and cliquish behavior that goes along with it.

Or maybe that is just my perception coming from the high school experience I had...I don't know.

I just know that I have had to learn and I am not always successful to be more tolerant of opinions that I don't agree with and not take personal offense and immediately going into defense mode where Clay is concerned.

And I do think there are fans who enjoy playing devil's advocate and stirring things up; I have seen it happen...one little comment and then they sit back and watch the fandom implode.

Okay, well that was a little more than 2 cents...probably more like $1.50.

End of the week for me and I get my car back today...Yay!

Everyone have a great day!

Kim

[justclay12]

Jamar and Aikim, you both just described my life and that's why whenever I post something it can take 30 minutes just to finish it because I usually try to figure out how to say it without coming across too critical. Don't always succeed but most of the time I do try. It's pretty easy to do when it comes to Clay because he hasn't really done anything that I have gotten upset about. Sometimes I may like a certain hairstyle or tour format better than others but I realize that its an ever evolving process. And I like that he changes things up. He's never boring, that's for sure.

[Cotton]

Kim!

You mean there are people with Oppositional Behavior Disorder on the boards who like to stir the Turd???!!!

Say it isn't so!!!

I just have one word to say about that: hair

BTW, I got an email from Greensboro Coliseum this morning that included this:

I didn't know Ruben and Frenchie would be working together. That's cool!

Bye - no time online with work today and yesterday - long day yesterday!!!

[Bella19]

:fest33: Happy Birthday Carolina Clay and playbiller :fest30:

Will this work week ever end? Seriously? Tonight I have to start packing for Quebec. Last night I got my oil changed. Eeep I forgot to schedule a night for laundry. Oops.

Awww, I love Quebec City! Have you seen this nonsense about Macca's concert? Sheesh!

Nationalists protest McCartney's appearance. I agree with Charest - they should just relax and enjoy the show, which I'm sure you will!

As for first kisses with red-headed guys, me too! His name was Ben, a football player who had tons of freckles and ended up as a friend, not a boyfriend...haven't thought of him in ages.

[luckiest1]

No, I hadn't seen that, Bella, thanks for bringing it over. I hope there are no problems at the concert...for goodness sake, the Beatles sing the universal language!

Ok, since it seems to be the topic that won't die, my first kiss was neither a red head, freckled, or a boy!

[Gibby]

When I was young, I dated a guy that my friend teased me looked like a werewolf, he had terrible 5 o'clock shadow and he was not much taller than me, so he asked that i wear low heels and his feet were smaller than mine and he thought that it was worth teasing me about endlessly, but when I looked at him, I saw beautiful eyes and exquisite ears, and he was a wonderful hummer, probably the only person I could ever stand to hear hum. He was politically opposite of me and we would have great discussions that never ever ended in arguments and he was always a gentleman. He wasn't freckled and he wasn't a redhead so I don't really know what this has to do with - oh yeah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and some of us are not influenced by other people's opinion. Eventually religion did us in, he was very very religious and I couldn't do what he needed = get seriously involved in church, especially after a major argument with a priest where he told me women were not worthy enough to pray while turning me down for a part in a vigil.

That makes my blood boil. Talk about misogyny!

I think it's cool that we're talking about our different approaches to this board, and to criticism in general! I support the right to free speech, so I would never want to tell someone that they can't post criticism or talk about something they dislike about Clay or anything else. Being able to express one's opinion is a precious right, not to be taken lightly.

However, for me, it comes down to a conscious choice to see the glass as half full. I discovered a long time ago that I'm very unhappy when I dwell on things that I don't like, that are negative or are simply not to my liking. Of course I acknowledge that they exist, and if there's a problem, I'll address it. I'm not gonna put my head in the sand! But I can still choose to think about what I like and what makes me happy. I've found that it's a lot more fun to be happy than to complain! Those rose-colored glasses are better than prozac! Heee.

I remember when I was little my Mom used to say, 'If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." I seriously did NOT understand her at the time, and thought that her little proverb was hopelessly outdated. Now that I'm adult, though, I think I understand her proverb a little bit. How many people want to be with someone who criticizes them? Most of us gravitate to positive people who give us compliments. Many people have so much negative self-talk that they yearn for someone to say something positive to them, whether they're aware of it or not. And how fun is it to spend time with people who constantly complain?

I'm not saying that anyone here constantly complains. I'm just explaining why I choose to look on the positive side of things, and how that works for me personally, in my relationships, and in my posting style. I definitely don't think that Clay is perfect, and I have posted a couple of times about things I didn't like about his - eeeeep! - singing in certain places in songs. But in general, for me, I simply don't see the point in talking about things I don't like. It's not life-giving to me. If I truly do not like something in my life, I'll attempt to do what I can to change it, and then let go and move onto the things that make me happy.

So, I'm glad we have free speech on this board, and have tolerance for both criticism and rose-colored glasses!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, PLAYBILLER AND CAROLINA CLAY!!\

:hb2: :nana: :hb2: :nana: :hb2:

[Iseeme]

Good morning.

I would love to see Frenchie and Ruben in Ain't Misbehavin.....(wonder if they'll be anywhere near Pioneer.... ) I bet it will be a rousingly good show.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY PLAYBILLER AND CAROLINACLAY

May you both have a great day!

Here's a lipbite for you!

ETA: ldyj - I see you down there. How are you feeling? Bet you're glad it's over with!

ETA #2 - just got an email from UNICEF and followed the link to Clay's "outrage" blog. The comments are awesome!!!!

[Lotus]

This video was posted on YouTube yesterday. I hadn't seen it before. The interview was done at the time of Aladdin.

[Couch Tomato]

Ok, since it seems to be the topic that won't die, my first kiss was neither a red head, freckled, or a boy!

heeeeeeeeeeee

Why did I say I'd come in regular time today! whine whine whine

I've seen a few people have had car troubles...soooo what does it mean when your engine light is on........ for two years

EEP the eHP are on their way! Whoo hooo.

OOOH HAPPY BIRTHDAY PLAYBILLER AND CAROLINA CLAY. I hope you both have wonderful days.

boogie boarding? You are the woman Play.