#34: So, how about that Clay Aiken?

[FromClaygary]

So I have three ways I'm processing this whole thing. It keeps me sane.

1. Clay and Jaymes are in a loving, committed relationship and are having a baby together. They may or may not sign a paper in the future to 'prove it' or may have done so in the past already. They are in love and plan to share their lives together with their child. They might even adopt more later.

2. Clay and Jaymes have a close, abiding love for each other and both want a child very badly. They've discussed the issue exhaustively and decided that in their present circumstances they are comfortable sharing a child, even though they realize that they do not have/want a future together as a romantic/life-partner relationship. They've considered the ramifications of this plan on their potential future relationships with others and agree to always be devoted parents to their child, regardless.

3. It's all a bunch of hooey and another example of the kind of journalism our media feeds our celebrity news-crazed public.

Well, I'm not struggling with keeping sane, but I do like any of your three scenarios; and, in all honesty, any scenario which includes some basic respect for Clay and Jaymes expressed in the media and in the fandom...and a beautiful baby in August.

Wait a minute...maybe I'm not sane!

Honestly, I don't believe unconditional love exists except between mother and child. Sometimes between father and child but never between a man and a woman, friends and family outside the mother and child bond. Think about it. Relationships are always conditional.

My father loved me unconditionally. My mother--not even close. She loves me, deeply, but she just isn't able to feel unconditional love.

Would have to agree with that! Not about your parents but mine; the only person my mother ever loved was herself. That certainly didn't extend to any of us kids.

...and BWAH! on the avocados.

Thank you kindly!

Not to belabor a point - but in the Olden Days, when we grizzled old posters lament the demise of snark - that was snark. Snark was usually poking fun at ourselves as fans, not taking cheap shots at others. The situation has pretty much completely been reversed, we can't hurt widdle feewings, but we can take passive-aggressive jabs at Clay, family and friends.

I remember when I first found the Clay message boards, I was so struck by the humor that was demonstrated by regular posters. I miss those days when we were able to laugh at us I wonder what happened, was it when outsiders started laughing at us (Cue stereotypical Claymate reference) that we became so sensitive?

I think that's partially it....and...

I am definitely post-ho'ing today. Sorry. But there's just good stuff to talk about.

I think the boards changed when some of the mods started supporting the right to freedom of speech and your opinion over common courtesy and respect! That is entirely my opinion, of course. Like someone said earlier, it was okay to say just about anything about Clay, his decisions, his family, his hair, his beloved bodyguard, etc. but God forbid you should be snotty to someone else or call them out on anything. My argument was always that I thought I was on a Clay fanboard - an open board where anyone could login and see what his fans were saying about him and that we needed to show him respect more than we need to be nicey nicey to everybody.

I do think you have a right to your opinion and the concept of "freedom of speech" is certainly important - but you can have all that and still be respectful to one another and especially to Clay. There is a big difference in my mind between "Clay's hair looks like shit - is that fag John still doing it?" and "not too much liking Clay's hair these days but I bet it will change in a few weeks!" Just an example! To me, the former comment is totally unacceptable on an open board and I think some of the asshats that love digging at Clay have used fanboard negative comments in their diatribes.

To me, it changed when the "rules nazis" (sorry for the expression) came out on the board I was a resident of at that time. It felt to me like two things:

-being treated like a 4-yr old, slapped, and told to mind my manners (and I was NOT one of the ones causing the problem, BTW...it was the same culprits it still is today)

-it felt like it made so many of the things that were "not to be discussed" dirty~when, in fact they were nothing of the sort! The example that immediately comes to mind is boobgate. I laughed my head off!..but on that board it was quickly shoved under the carpet, in my mind to fester there and become something it most definitely was NOT. I think the same thing is happening today.

I'm very glad we can discuss it here and sort it out.

[KAndre]

Women who say they love their abusive husband do believe they do. And if she finally has enough and leaves him, she will often replace him the same kind of man. . There are a lot of women like that. It is a very complex situation and she's the enabler until she gets the therapy she needs to break loose from her "comfort-zone"..

When my female friends whine about unconditional love, I tell them to get a dog. Now, THAT's true unconditional love. They love you no matter what.!!!

See, I can't deny a person's belief in their own emotional state - because what more can you do than BELIEVE you're in love? It may not be an "appropriate" or even "healthy" love - but love nonetheless. People can learn to love different things - doesn't negate what they loved before.

As for the unconditional love, I guess it says a LOT that I am such a cat person!

[claytonic]

in all 52 states and most foreign countries!

WOW 52 states? I thought there were only 50! Has there been a change that I don't know about? How can this be!

[liney23]

UNCONDITIONAL LOVE - Not even much the Clay thing - it's sort of a combination of the security and friendship that spells a committment with a capital C - the love that might have you makin' babies after thinking hard about it (as opposed to almost a side effect of the Romantic stuff) - or sticking with someone who can't make babies - or doesn't wanna make babies - or is too old - or too young - or they are paralyzed from the neck down and can't have sex - or you HATE their entire family - or all sorts of things that make you fall out of Romantic love toot sweet. You can have the lust thing - but it isn't really necessary.

Honestly, I don't believe unconditional love exists except between mother and child. Sometimes between father and child but never between a man and a woman, friends and family outside the mother and child bond. Think about it. Relationships are always conditional.

claytonic... I sort off, but not quite agree. There aren't too many relationships that are fully unconditional and that includes mother/child. The last thing my mother did was love me... didn't happen. I love my kids almost unconditionally, but I do want to be loved and respected in return, so does that make it not unconditional? Great discussion! I love this board!!! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Jenna...gotta say that your suggestion re: the scenario of Clay and Jaymes NOT being in a committed relationship but still having a baby together makes the most sense for that scenario, which was the one of the 'what ifs' that has been giving me the most trouble reconciling for myself. Comparing it to having a child from a former marriage/relationship.

I'm not one of those who would have any problem with Clay and Jaymes actually BEING a couple and having the baby. I have no problem imagining the two of them in a deep relationship that includes romantic/sexual love. I certainly have no problem with her age. It's a number.

I'm also not one entertaining other scenarios at this particular time; that is, I am not even trying to put my head around the 'Clay asking Jaymes to carry his baby for him' or 'Jaymes asking Clay to give her a baby' or all those suggestions.

So I have three ways I'm processing this whole thing. It keeps me sane.

1. Clay and Jaymes are in a loving, committed relationship and are having a baby together. They may or may not sign a paper in the future to 'prove it' or may have done so in the past already. They are in love and plan to share their lives together with their child. They might even adopt more later.

2. Clay and Jaymes have a close, abiding love for each other and both want a child very badly. They've discussed the issue exhaustively and decided that in their present circumstances they are comfortable sharing a child, even though they realize that they do not have/want a future together as a romantic/life-partner relationship. They've considered the ramifications of this plan on their potential future relationships with others and agree to always be devoted parents to their child, regardless.

3. It's all a bunch of hooey and another example of the kind of journalism our media feeds our celebrity news-crazed public.

Any one of these scenarios is feasible to me, so I'm preparing myself for all of them.

Meanwhile, my 13-yr-old daughter is exhibiting the classic signs of that age and creating great angst from her parents; my 16 yr old is being amazingly responsible and calm lately and has me worried; my husband is dealing with his own aging/self-destructive parent issues and is showing the strain; my 87-yr-old mother is displaying all the signs of a woman hopelessly in love and the object of her affection is a two-timing gigilo who's not even aware he HAS two girlfriends; and I'm having knee problems that I refuse to attribute to 'old age' but am getting an x-ray anyway so the picture of an arthritic joint will make it impossible to ignore.

Let's come up with some possible scenarios for resolution of these mysteries, 'kay?

:lmaosmiley-1:

ETA: no spelling of 'gigilo' 'gigalo' looks right to me!

muski... your scenarios are the ones I have come up with, too. I'm leaning to #2, but would love #1... #3 is only ok if there is some way to make the asshat tabloids/etc, eat dirt big time and have it not be hidden on page 35 in size 8 font.

[wandacleo]

Wandacleo said:

Nobody is stuck in time.

Clay may have learned to like avocados. Does that make him a liar?

I have no idea what you meant with that comment. I was merely saying I believed what he said. Of course people change with time and maybe he did learn to love avocados but it was just a silly example.....sheesh! My point was I've always believed him when he said he wanted a family and children. HIS idea of what that meant isn't necessarily what MY idea is of what that meant.......so I don't feel he was misrepresenting himself. I might have been projecting.

I wasn't actually addressing you at all so no "sheesh" is needed. It's just that your comment about avocados reminded me of what Clay said about everything in CA having avocado on it.

[Iseeme]

OMG - I've created two new states. I guess they are Confusion and Bewilderment. HEE HEE. (my parents are rolling in their graves....all that money spent on an education for naught!) Crap - does that mean we have to have two more primary elections??? Gahhhhhh. Maybe Hilary still has a chance. I cannot believe I did that.

KAndre - you may not want to think we have anything in common other than Clay but I am a total cat person. My two Siamese are my best friends, they do love me unconditionally (as long as there is Fancy Feast in the house) and they provide alot of company on this mountain when it's snowing outside. Benjamin is a Blue Point Siamese and Charlotte Rose is a Lynx Point Siamese. Both were adopted as teeny kitties from rescue foundations. They rule the house and I am just their Fur Person.

Charlotte Rose

Benjamin

[keepingfaith]

Mistress KAndre said:

It's like the only song I like by Bob Dylan sung by Bob Dylan is the one where he has the flash cards. I think he's singing. Otherwise, I especially like his stuff when other people are singing it. Like the Animals. I know, kf, I know - I'm a TOTAL heathen

Dang! Can I still be a minion if I prefer Dylan's version of ALL of his songs to covers? I don't think anyone else phrases his songs as well as he does. I understand that many many people do not care for his voice - but he does sing in tune, which can't be said for many today. I find his recording of "Ring Them Bells", for example, just blows away any other prettified covers of it. He makes me listen to the words.

KAndre, if you weren't such a heathen it would be our loss. And also our loss if Dylan hadn't sung all his songs ... like that Subterranean Homesick Flash Cards Blues Song. The Animals? I can't think of a Dylan song they did.

Ring Them Bells -- there are no words for how much I love that song. Also special is With God on Our Side with its incredible last verse:

So now as I'm leavin'

I'm weary as Hell

The confusion I'm feelin'

Ain't no tongue can tell

The words fill my head

And fall to the floor

If God's on our side

He'll stop the next war

And as impressive as that was, it couldn't even touch Masters of War as the definitive anti-war anthem. Dylan was, what 25 or so when he wrote Masters of War?

My favorite Dylan song is Things I've Changed from the movie Wonder Boys. I believe it also won the Academy Award for Best Song that year!!!

Oh yeah, "I used to care but ..... Things Have Changed" -- I love it and it did win Best Song. Wonder Boys is one of my top favorite movies of all time, and is one movie that requires watching alone, because the dialogue can't be missed.

I'm wondering if Clay is one of those who really just isn't into the whole Romantic love thing. Lord knows, I'm not. It seems a lot of effort for not a lot of reward. We who don't really care about Romantic love tend not to discuss it, because lord knows that ones who do care seem to be fairly obsessed with it, and we have found it safer to avoid the obssessive types. Not being into Romantic doesn't preclude loving and enjoying children and sex and family and sex and expensive jewelry and sex and sex and sex - it's just that involving a lot of heart palpitations ain't exactly the end-all and be-all.

Of course, I'm projecting like crazy! But good crazy, not crazy crazy.

A very close friend of mine married a guy last year that she had been seeing for eight or nine years, and I told her before she married him that I didn't think she loved him. She told me that she loved her first husband and that didn't turn out well (apparently not with all the restraining orders she had to get). This time she wanted to marry her closest friend and confidante, and she didn't commit to marry him until he changed his religion to hers, had met and been approved by everyone in her family, until she went to Europe and met his family, until her child was grown and living independently, and until every potential problem had been resolved or eliminated. She strongly believes that "in love" is an illusion and nothing to base a life-long relationship upon. She is a strong believer that friendship is the only enduring love. It's a little cold for me, and I don't understand sex without romance, but they are two very happy and compatible people, so obviously there is no one-size-fits-all formula for love and family.

Nobody is stuck in time.

Clay may have learned to like avocados. Does that make him a liar?

I don't think, though, that people's characters change without GREAT effort, self-awareness, and (probably) therapy.

So, I don't take everything that Clay has said as gospel for the whole of his life.

But, I know a good man when I see one.

Sufficient for me.

Worth repeating. Although I am aware that self-realization and profound change can happen in the blink of an eye. I'm a believer that the only constant in the universe is change.

And, finally, regarding Asian movies, has anyone seen the Korean film, Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter, and Spring? When I need to jump in the Zen Car, this is my go-to movie.

[FromClaygary]

OK, I HATE that there are people still feeding these sites with hits....but here's one description of a TMZ video I'm happy to copy over from andee1960 at CV:

took a hit for you...

Brought to you by Hershey's Chocolate:

Ruben has just finished some performance, looks like in DC.

TMZ guy asks if he has congratulated Clay on his new baby and if he's going to be the godfather.

Rube says "I don't know nothing about that." and gets into his limo as the dude asks if he had met the "wife or the girlfriend."

Then, cut to Rube getting out of same car probably at a hotel.

SAME TMZ dude is there.

Rube: "DIdn't I just see you back over there?" (it's kind of funny)

TMZ: Yeah, I just want to know if you're going to be the godfather.

Rube signs autographs. Looks like his handlers ask the TMZ folks why they are videoing. Someone tells them to put the camera down, Rube goes inside, and that's it.

Rube gave them nothing to work with. Of course, TMZ makes it sound like Ruben doesn't want to have anything to do with the

"Clayby BabyMamma Drama"...their words.

You rock, Ruben!

[cha cha trusty]

ok, i officially now hate comcast, and the bloom is rapidly fading off my blackjack romance. i am afraid to look at my att bill! my pc has turned into a big and very expensive jukebox.

loved the avocado piece!

liked muskis 3 scenarios list. my thoughts are along the same lines.

loved fears dream. i had a thought yesterday (oh yes i did!) that no matter how and under what circumstances this had been announced, the media storm would still insue. you know?

was going to quote the same lines from LAA as atinal in reference to unconventional clay. thats the feel i got from it way back when.

i am cheating on clay with bob dylan, too. have always lloved him. seen him in concert 2x. i am reading his autobio right now, cool stuff. i also am working thru a bunch of docus, and ive branched out to the traveling wilburys now. also waiting for mccartneys unplugged to arrive in the mail so i can play it on my big and very expensive jukebox.

MORE LATER (oooops!) when i get access back and can play youtubes and record all the high and low of clays voice with more ease!

and uncoditional love, isnt that where someone always has a place in your heart even tho you dont always agree with what they do, or even like them sometimes, you never stop loving them. kinda like clay. kinda like my sister.

[laughn]

Here's another report of that TMZ piece from Mandler at getclayaiken

It's not a joke. It's a video of them talking to Ruben about it. Asked him if he knew, what he thought, if he had met Jaymes (didn't use her name; called her a wife and then girlfriend), and if he was going to be the godfather. Ruben said very little, something about either not knowing about any of that or not going to talk about any of that (couldn't hear). Then they followed him to another location, and the guy asked him again while he was signing an autograph. Ruben just laughed and said, "Put that camera down, Man, and shake my hand instead" or something like that. All in all, the photographer wasn't asking anything bad, and Ruben was a complete gentleman (and super cool with the handshake thing).

[Gibby]

laughn, I hope you are recovering quickly! *HUGS*

Muski, I agree that the three scenarios you mentioned are the most likely at this point. I'm trying to prepare myself to wait until August to find out which one is true. We may find out sooner, but just in case, I'm hopefully prepared to wait.

I sitting here, probably a little slap happy, because I worked at our High School Post Grad Party last night. I was their from 1pm yesterday to 3am this morning. Came home and had had so much coffee could not go to sleep for another hour.

I have been reading and agreeing with parts of everyone post. If this is true, and I believe it is, I hope that they are happy with their decision. I would not of dreamed of this scenerio for him, but I also think that this did not come out of the blue and was well thought out. He is just an incredible person with a great spirit and an even more incredible voice, that I want the world for him. Sometimes when I see all the hate from the media I hope that he will just not decide to chuck it all in. That would be very heartbreaking. I have decided for me to, just let him whenever he is ready, communicate with us and not get myself all upset over all the media .

I think that's an excellent way to deal with it, gbmifan! I'm trying to do the same.

Good luck with your internet access, chach!

[KAndre]

eh, I thought Dylan wrote House of the Rising Sun? You know I don't keep up with stuff like that. And sex without romance can be an incredible amount of fun. Just sayin'. But then again, I'm one of those to whom someone who doesn't know me at all will give me some mushy card, I'll read and then toss it because I had no idea what you're really supposed to do with the damn things. My sister finally convinced me to wait until the card giver left before tossing.

I don't think "in love" is an illusion - just not enough to base serious long term life decisions on. Of course, I've never done in the "in love" thing - just looked at it from the outside with friends and family and said to myself - thank the lord and all his little fishes I don't do that crap. A bunch of out of control hormones? Please. The last time I had a bunch of out of control hormones I was preggers, and heaven knows I wasn't filled with the milk of human kindness - homicidal maniac was closer to it. Part of it is the seemingly repetitive nature of being "in love" - known too many working on their 5th or 6th "true love".

[muskifest]

Put that camera down, Man, and shake my hand instead

If indeed this is a quote from Ruben, I like the man even more. That's verra, verra cool. :headbangerf:

[luckiest1]

Hee, ok, so someone finally just mentioned it to me. One of the guys in my office asked when my desktop came up as I was minimizing some things I was working on, so I could pull something else up that he needed to see. There was Clay's face smiling out at us. He said "so I hear he's going to be a daddy, eh?" I said "that's the rumour". He said "oh yeah?" and ther rest of the guys sat up and took notice and said "what?" Heh, I guess they hadn't heard it yet. I explained that neither Clay nor Jaymes had made a statement yet, so I was still in "wait and see" mode. He started singing "one night love affair" and the rest of the guys in the office joined in. LOL. No mention of AI, so I'm not sure where he heard it, but I'll take it.

[muskifest]

Saw this quote on another board in the past few days. I actually typed it and printed it out and it's taped to my monitor at work.

On accepting the Nobel Peace Prize, the Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King, Jr. wrote:

I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word in reality. This is why right, temporarily defeated, is stronger than evil triumphant.

[pkmiller]

I'm very glad we can discuss it here and sort it out.

Amen to that.

Of course we may be thinking :fssign: or wanting to do this but for the most part, the members of this board seem to get along and are mature enough to have an honest discussion. I'm one of those who needs to talk things out before coming to a conclusion so I really appreciate that.

[keepingfaith]

I heard this on TV somewhere just the other day, a writer was asked why he was a writer, and he said, "So I'll know what I think."

[cha cha trusty]

YAAAY!! The cable is back!! I have to go check for a Top Chef repeat of the show I missed last night.....

Yes, I am very thankful that we here on this board seem to be able to discuss things in a more rational manner. I haven't been "out there" to other boards much, but I have been exposed to all the angst and stuff thru an email list I belong to, and agree that it's been pretty crazy.

On another OT note.... I mentioned I was reading the Bob Dylan autobiography? It's called "Chronicles Volume One" - whether there will ever be a volume two remains to be seen! Well, on page 60 there is a list of who all had done versions some of his early songs:

• The Byrds - Mr Tamborine man

The Turtles - It Ain't Me Babe

Sonny & Cher - All I Really Want to Do

Glen Campbell - Don't Think Twice

Johnny Rivers - Positively 4th Street

and Dylan says his favorite was Johnny Rivers. So now I may branch off again and listen to some Johnny Rivers stuff.

I liked all those versions but I really like the way Dylan does them too. Don't Think Twice is one of my favorites. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Joan Baez did a few of his songs too. But no, Dylan didn't write House of the Rising Sun, but in the docu "No Direction Home" Dylan says when he first went to a studio to record his first album, he didn't have in mind what exactly to sing, and that one just kind of "fell out". It had been sung in the Cafe Wha'? by another guy named David Van Ronk, and afterwards Dylan asked him if it was ok to record it. Van Ronk said "not really" and Dylan kind of said "ooops" with a sharp intake of breath. So after the album came out, Van Ronk said he couldn't sing it any more because people thought he stole it from Dylan! Then Dylan said, after the Animals sang it, people thought Dylan stole it from them!

Sorry to ramble on, I find Dylan fascinating.

So how about that Clay Aiken guy??? :F_05BL17blowkiss: Any news??

[aikim]

Evening all,

End of the work week for me and boy, I am I glad...just been a hell of a week all the way around, and not just because of the Clay stuff...one ladies I work with was on vacation this week, so I was doing her job and mine and just to add to the fun; the AC went out at work today...always seems to happen the first day we hit 90 degrees.

I sometimes feel like an oddball in this fandom because I never angst over anything...this news came out and I have to admit I was thrilled to think that maybe it could be true...I just didn't think it was odd at all that Clay would have a relationship with Jaymes or that they would decide to have a baby together. The details didn't and still don't matter to me and never once thought that he had changed or was; (and God, I am beginning to hate this phrase) "not who I thought he was". If he is happy, I'm happy.

I will admit that I am having a hard time understanding some of the reactions...the extreme sadness some are feeling just seems out of proportion to the situation to me and I have come to the conclusion that they are more sad for themselves than for Clay because their dreams and fantasies have been shattered. And I do think some have held Clay up to such high standards that it was inevitable that he would disappointment them at some point and I don't think Clay can be blamed for that.

I think a lot of the anger directed at Jaymes is again...because she stole the fantasy...the older woman-younger man scenario has been played out for the last 5 years on the boards and she may actually be living that fantasy and maybe it is not so much fun to fantasize when it is a reality. Not sure if that makes any sense..but just the feeling I have been getting.

I do find it sad that some are stepping away from the fandom...hope they can resolve their issues and find their way back...somehow I think all might be forgiven as soon as they see a picture of Clay with his child.

Kim

[wandacleo]

Interesting comments today.

i think if people are stepping away from Clay's fandom because of his spermal choices, then that's what they should do.

They are WAY too over-invested in the life of someone they don't even really know.

[Bookwhore]

I have come to the conclusion that they are more sad for themselves than for Clay because their dreams and fantasies have been shattered. ........

I think a lot of the anger directed at Jaymes is again...because she stole the fantasy...the older woman-younger man scenario has been played out for the last 5 years on the boards and she may actually be living that fantasy and maybe it is not so much fun to fantasize when it is a reality. Not sure if that makes any sense..but just the feeling I have been getting.

That's some conclusion Kim.

A fantasy is just that....fantasy. I don't personally know of any person in the fandom who ever seriously thought the fantasy could become a reality. I know many, many people who have shared fantasies about Clay on the boards and I never once thought they were serious. It's more of a running joke, something we 'play' at. You know, lighthearted levity?

I can't think of any sane person that would seriously be angry with Jaymes because she 'stole' Clay from them. Clay could publicly announce that he's flaming gay and has a harem of 12 young men and it wouldn't interrupt my fantasy at all, much less the announcement that he's going to have a child with Jaymes. In my fantasy we're both single, he's straight, I'm young, firm, intelligent and beautiful and the sex is smokin' hot.

Oh, I know that there are a few fans out there who are totally nucking futs - we all know who they are - but 99.9% of the fans are just playing. In my opinion.

[djs111]

And I do think some have held Clay up to such high standards that it was inevitable that he would disappointment them at some point and I don't think Clay can be blamed for that

I agree with you - except I think "high standards" implies he has done something wrong - to me, everyone has their own "standard" and has no business inflicting whatever it is on strangers. Or deciding what is "high". Yeah, I think some people's fantasies got squished like bugs. But that is not Clay's problem.

Bob Dylan music - I have always loved Joan Baez' Diamonds and Rust, which is supposed to be about their relationship - I don't like anything else of hers too much because her voice is so high - for me - that it makes me uncomfortable. And Jesse Come Home used to be the most damned depressing song I ever heard.

I have been to a bunch of Peter Paul and Mary concerts - best song ever was Steve Goodman's Would You Like To Learn to Dance, it is gorgeous. Mary sang it solo.

Goodman also wrote You Never Even Called Me By My Name and The Dying Cub's Fan's Last Request and The Spirit of New Orleans (his most famous song), I was lucky and saw him in a very small concert when he was in remission from leukemia......funny how a singer or a song leads you to another singer and another song.....even before the internet!

I don't really like that thingy that directs you to other songs based on what you like, because I tend to be more eclectic. I don't need to hear Buble because I like Sinatra, Sinatra is quite tremendously enuff.

Bookwhore, there are fans furiously trying to get close to Clay, or join TC, right this minute. I think that Jaymes has somehow fueled their fantasy. Just my opinion, but I stand by it!

[merryclay]

I am definitely post-ho'ing today. Sorry. But there's just good stuff to talk about.

I think the boards changed when some of the mods started supporting the right to freedom of speech and your opinion over common courtesy and respect! That is entirely my opinion, of course. Like someone said earlier, it was okay to say just about anything about Clay, his decisions, his family, his hair, his beloved bodyguard, etc. but God forbid you should be snotty to someone else or call them out on anything. My argument was always that I thought I was on a Clay fanboard - an open board where anyone could login and see what his fans were saying about him and that we needed to show him respect more than we need to be nicey nicey to everybody.

I do think you have a right to your opinion and the concept of "freedom of speech" is certainly important - but you can have all that and still be respectful to one another and especially to Clay. There is a big difference in my mind between "Clay's hair looks like shit - is that fag John still doing it?" and "not too much liking Clay's hair these days but I bet it will change in a few weeks!" Just an example! To me, the former comment is totally unacceptable on an open board and I think some of the asshats that love digging at Clay have used fanboard negative comments in their diatribes.

Word!!!!!

[Clayzorback]

I have a date tonight with this guy.................He has no problem coming to see me in my back yard. You hear that Clay? Carrie Underwood is the opening act....................He's a new pappa too....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fy91mHAPpE...feature=related

I'm going to have to take the long way to get there because traffic is already backed up for miles. He doesn't even start till later this evening. He will no doubt fill up the entire Razorback Football Stadium.

[Iseeme]

Aikim - I agree with most of what you said. But I also think there's an element that is worn out from all the sensationalism and negativity that surrounds Clay in the media. If he announced his engagement, had a fairy tale wedding and some months later a little Aiken appeared I bet it would be easier for some to handle. Quite honestly, it would be easier for ME to handle, too. I don't know if I can articulate this properly but all of this "noise" just detracts from the man's talent and I truly believe it has hurt his career. I wish more people knew the man and not the myths that are propagated and put forth by the asshat jouralists who are just trying to make money off of salacious reporting. I want people to talk about his awesome voice and his comedic abilities and his foundation and his UNICEF work....not speculate on how his child was conceived. I know all celebrities have an element of this but I swear Clay Aiken has the corner on the market right now. "How long before I'm empty"....

Ti bet there are definitely women who's fantasies have been dashed or squelched by Jaymes involvement, whatever it is, with Clay, and jealousy is an ugly thing. And anybody who is leaving the fandom because Clay chooses ITT to have a baby with her - well, I DO hope the door hits them on the butt on their way out. If loving and supporting him is so fickle in nature than WTF - LEAVE!!!! I don't know this for a fact, but I'll bet some first row seats will be available for us peons if they DO go!!!

I've said this all week - this is NOT what I would have hoped for, but it is what it is - ITT. But if anyone thinks Clay has been taken in or victimized by the evil Jaymes - that's just plain ignorant! He isn't some sheltered young and immature kid from a small Southern town. He's intelligent and thoughtful and I just have to have faith that he entered into this with his eyes wide open and with the knowledge of all of the ramifications - legal, emotional and career-wise. ITT, of course.

OTT - but interesting. Did you see where David Archuleta's Dad was planning a concert to thank David's fans and AI put the kabosh on it? I bet the AI folk are deliriously happy he didn't win and they dont' have to deal with the stage Dad from hell. I kind of feel sorry for little David.

Archuleta's agent, Roger Widynowski, said Tuesday that the concert, billed as "Back Home With David Archuleta" and planned for tomorrow night, would be a no-go because the angel-voiced 17-year-old was not allowed to perform at any non-Idol sanctioned gigs. Not even one whose entire proceeds were earmarked for charity.